See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 15 October 2015
<richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Oct/0063.html
OK. Sorry
<LJWatson> prsent+ LJWatson
<scribe> scribe: Janina
<clown> action-1361
<trackbot> action-1361 -- Matthew King to Suggest new text for the application role -- due 2015-06-11 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1361
action-1361?
<trackbot> action-1361 -- Matthew King to Suggest new text for the application role -- due 2015-06-11 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1361
jd: Don't believe there's progress
<clown> issue-640
<trackbot> issue-640 -- Investigate aria-hasmanagedfocus to indicate whether a region manages focus to enable complex widgets -- closed
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/640
rs: We need to get these done,
else they move to 2.0.
... Any objections to deadline of next week on this?
mc: Suggest communicate the deadline clearly
<clown> +1
jd: Ah, see new Github branch for this
<clown> +1 to Michael's plan-to-rec suggestion
rs: OK. Agenda for next week
<clown> action-1714
<trackbot> action-1714 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Draft Figure Role -- due 2015-09-10 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1714
<joanie> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Oct/0094.html
rs: Well, it's another author should ...
<joanie> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1714/aria/aria.html#figure
rs: There are cases where it might not be advisable
fe: Not sure it's always a best practice
js: We're saying there's a description somewhere, may be implicit or explicit
<clown> You can compose a graphical document with any combination of symbols, images, text, and graphic primitives (shapes such as circles, points, lines, paths, rectangles, etc).
<clown> A graphical document is composed using any combination of ...
RESOLUTION: Figure role is finished
rs: Are people OK with glossary definition?
RESOLUTION: Definition of graphical document has been completed
<clown> issue-264
<trackbot> issue-264 -- Clarify tab and tabpanel -- closed
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/264
<clown> issue-624
<trackbot> issue-624 -- Primary Action Concept -- raised
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/624
<clown> action-1736
<trackbot> action-1736 -- James Nurthen to Create an attribute to indicate a button is the primary button -- due 2015-10-19 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1736
<clown> issue-742
<trackbot> issue-742 -- Introduce the ability to provide the destination context of a link -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/742
rs: I learned there's a wiki collection of rel values
<richardschwerdtfeger> http://microformats.org/wiki/existing-rel-values#HTML5_link_type_extensions
rs: Met with Dpub, and believe
all issues are on the table
... Dpub doesn't want to be making the decision
... There's a lot in the rel wiki
... Much of it makes no sense from an ARIA or COGA
perspective
... COGA's interest is in styling the UI
... Currently, rel is not mapped on link by AT
... It's possible Xlink would apply for SVG
... Noting that there will be no DOM access via Edge
lw: How would screen readers use
COGA info?
... Curious how this works from a user experience
rs: At the moment, there's a lot we don't know
mk: Is there an assumption that
SR would expose?
... Some kind of setting "i want this additional info"
rs: Much of it may not be of
value
... COGA wants it styled for comprehension
... Some of the values may, but others may not have value to
AT
... The Dpub values are much more clearly valuable
janina: Concerned that exposing el means exposing any of the rel registered taxonomies.
rs: Also concerned that the supported taxonomies would continue growing
js: So we only expose a subset of possible rel values?
rs: Yes, a subset. Challenge is which ones
lw: Using a prefix notation a la
dublin core?
... So, aria.XXX or coga.XXX etc
<richardschwerdtfeger> got disconnected
<mck> hmm
<mck> snow day in California?
<mck> matt is back
rs: We don't have rel attrib for
link role
... So, it wouldn't work on a div
<clown> <div role="link" rel="???"> can't be done.
mk: questions that
js: Not conformant
... Likely browser will leave it in the DOM
... Believe browser would add rel value to the dom
mk: ARIA would have to define for it to be valid?
js: Or get mod from HTML
jd: Or require it limited to anchor
<richardschwerdtfeger> no. <link rel=“”>
fe: Saw examples of link in body
...
... Ah, for linking to alternative formats, other lang
versions, etc
js: Doubt "link" used in body would actually be rendered
<joanie> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/document-metadata.html#the-link-element
<clown> <link rel="author license" href="/about">
rs: We won't resolve this today
...
... Only reason to suggest ARIA-Destination at this time is for
specialized Dpub roles
... To describe/identify the destination by type
... Example is identifying link goes to a glossary
definition
mk: Can a sighted user distinguish these somehow? Are they styled differently?
rs: Yes
mk: Wondering aloud whether we
already have something like this
... Help for the control
rs: Styling is supported so long
as an attribute selector is available
... We can't hold up ARIA-1.1 for Destinationq+
<Zakim> clown, you wanted to ask whose governance is rel/micorformats under? And which of our specs documents our @rel values?
js: Who controls the supported vocabulary?
<richardschwerdtfeger> http://microformats.org/wiki/existing-rel-values#HTML5_link_type_extensions
js: So we convince them of the values we want?
rs: No, we just tell them
js: I'm leary of needing to add our values to this wiki
mk: Concerned that Destination is attrib bloat
rs: Would like to resolve this soon
mc: Hearing much concern of how
rel is extended in this conversation and note this is an old,
much debated concern
... We may want to re-raise this with Web Platforms
rs: Noting we could develop this via Dpub module and add to ARIA core later, if this turns out to be preferred
topic Action-1361
actin-1361?
<clown> action-1361
<trackbot> action-1361 -- Matthew King to Suggest new text for the application role -- due 2015-06-11 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1361
action-1361?
<trackbot> action-1361 -- Matthew King to Suggest new text for the application role -- due 2015-06-11 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1361
<mck> 1. Remove use of the word "application" from the definition of application.
<mck> 2. Specify it is a section or structure.
<mck> 3. Make clear that it is unnecessary for standard widgets to help avoid overuse.
<mck> 4. Editorial improvements, e.g., remove redundant wording from the description.
mk: #3 most important to me
<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#application
mk: "Application" is much overused, even by AT
<joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/commit/7593ebf36?diff=split
mk: Shouldn't need application role where everything in the region is a standard widget
<mck> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/mck_applicationRole/aria/aria.html#landmark
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/mck_applicationRole/aria/aria.html#application
<fesch> Yes you need an application role when you make your own widget like a interactive chart widget and need the key events passed to you
[group discussing proposed revisions]
<joanie> fesch: maybe widget should then not be abstract
<fesch> joanie: well right now you have to use application... if widget worked...
<fesch> right now, you have to use application in order to get get events
<fesch> even if you an application the browser won't give you every event like tab...
mk: Why application should be child of landmark? Suggest should be sibling of document
js: Believe what we have came from looking at portals and portlets
mk: So why document not landmark
rs: Because we use it top switch out of this application stuff
mk: But that goes both
ways--suggest there's confusion here
... suggest putting "document" on body is redundant
... suggest 99% of application usage is useless, region would
work as well
rs: Don't quite see the
corelation
... Taking a straw poll ...
lw: Agrees with MK
jn: Would prefer a better way to
do what we need to do
... Don't mind removing it from landmarks
rs: No objections to removing application from landmark?
mk: Will finish edits and see how
it goes
... Are labels required
rs: Not for role=document
... Any objections?
[crickets]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/descript/description/ Succeeded: s/Unsure what browser might do/Likely browser will leave it in the DOM/ Succeeded: s/redundent/redundant/ Found Scribe: Janina Inferring ScribeNick: janina Default Present: Janina, Joanmarie_Diggs, fesch, Joseph_Scheuhammer, James_Nurthen, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Bryan_Garaventa, MichaelC, Léonie_Watson Present: Janina Joanmarie_Diggs fesch Joseph_Scheuhammer James_Nurthen Rich_Schwerdtfeger Bryan_Garaventa MichaelC Léonie_Watson Stefan_Schnabel Matt_King Michiel_Bijl Found Date: 15 Oct 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/10/15-aria-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]