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<trackbot> Date: 17 September 2015
<pal> it looks like I will not have audio today
<scribe> scribe: Nigel
<pal> I can provide brief update re: items 3 and 4
nigel: Thanks Pierre - I make that the IMSC Test Suite and Implementation Report, and TTML WebVTT mapping.
<pal> yes
nigel: Introduces meeting and topics based on agenda. Any other business?
Mike: I'm primarily interested in the mapping document, but as you say the authors aren't present right now.
nigel: I think we should get first reactions, and then take that forward, regardless of whether the authors are here or not.
nigel: The only one that we might be able to look at right now is Pierre's. Pierre, is there any update on Action-420, re Issue-406?
<pal> No update. I have yet to contact Glenn.
nigel: Firstly, any difficulties in registering, or any queries?
group: None.
nigel: I want to highlight that we will cover the charter renewal at TPAC. The current charter:
http://www.w3.org/2014/03/timed-text-charter.html
nigel: runs out on March 30 2016,
so we will probably be wanting to renew it.
... We need to consider our scope. Note also that the Timed
Media Working Group is being
... chartered right now. Thierry, what's the current status of
that?
tmichel: I'm told that WebVTT
work was removed from the potential scope of TMWG
following
... a conversation between nigel and plh. That's about all I
know about the interaction between
... the two groups. TMWG will work more on APIs than we do. I
don't have a link to the
... updated charter yet.
nigel: Okay, thanks. I'm guessing
that we want something on TTML2 and IMSC 2 and possibly
... something on live subtitles, as well as WebVTT.
tmichel: I had a discussion with
plh on the TTWG working on IMSC 2. It is not clearly
marked
... as a deliverable right now but because there's no
versioning in the charter then plh confirmed
... to me that we can work on IMSC 2 under the current charter.
I just wanted to mention that
... because I raised a query on it a few weeks ago.
nigel: Thanks for that.
... Anything else for TPAC agenda to mention?
tmichel: Just some admin - for
people planning to come to TPAC you should register and
book
... your hotels as soon as possible because I'm told that the
pre-booked hotel rooms are filling
... up. There are other hotels of course. I'm aware of people
having issues paying with credit
... cards for this event. If you have those issues contact the
meeting planner or me and I'll help
... you to make your reservation.
nigel: Thanks Thierry.
tmichel: Just to say that the implementation report WBS questionnaire that I prepared and that
<pal> I have received positive feedback from implementers at IBC
tmichel: we sent to the
implementors has had no responses yet.
... When we talked about this last, in June/July we said we'd
remind potential implementors
... in September. I know that Pierre reported he has good
feedback from implementors, so
... should we send them something? Should we do it differently?
If Pierre could report a bit more
... on the status of these implementors and the coverage for
example?
<pal> Thanks Nigel
<pal> I received positive feedback at IBC, which I hope to turn into actual responses to the questionaire
<pal> these implementers are making their way back from IBC and I plan to ping them on Monday
<pal> ....so hopefully more concrete recommendation by next meeting
nigel: Shall we leave it with you Pierre until you've had a response?
tmichel: I wanted to add two
things. Nigel, you mentioned that you've seen a lot of
TTML
... implementations at IBC. I think it would be reasonable and
a good idea to list those
... implementations somewhere on our page. We could reuse that
for example when we will
... go to CR for TTML2, to help us to have a list of
implementors that we're aware of.
... Secondly, about IMSC, I know that Glenn is working on an
implementation, and maybe we
... could discuss that with him to find out when he plans to
release something and what it would
... cover regarding our test suite.
<scribe> ACTION: nigel Check with TTML player manufacturers if they're happy to be listed on our site. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/09/17-tt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-421 - Check with ttml player manufacturers if they're happy to be listed on our site. [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-09-24].
pal: I'll check back with Glenn
nigel: So the conclusion is we
won't decide until next week when we'll know more from
Pierre.
... Since we don't know if there are any concerns from
implementors about responding we can't
... try to address any such concerns yet.
<pal> not from me
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml-webvtt-mapping/mappingbetweenTTMLandWebVTTW3C.html
nigel: Any first reactions to
this work?
... My first reaction to this is very positive. I think there's
some detail work to do, for example
... around the difference in document ordering vs time ordering
constraints between the two
... formats that means that there's some extra complexity that
may not be fully captured yet.
... There are probably other comments too, but at least we have
a document to hang them on.
mike: I think this is really
good. We should think on a philosophical and logistical level
about
... the history. I'm not sure about EBU-TT. For SDP-US and
IMSC1 they both started as
... authoring constraints. You write down details, and then for
interoperability you write it
... down clearly and pretty soon you have a profile. I think
that as this work matures we might
... want to keep in the back of our mind that we might want to
create a TTML profile to reflect
... this work. That's something to keep in mind.
nigel: My sense is that the
authors did have this in mind. Section 2.1 looks almost
exactly
... like a TTML profile.
... We'll certainly cover this at TPAC so I'd strongly
encourage anyone with thoughts on this
... to make the authors aware well before we get to Japan so
they can think about them.
mike: Shall I file an issue re the use of "T2" being confusable with TTML2?
nigel: Sure, go ahead. There's a product for this document in the Tracker.
tmichel: I have a question. I was
really impressed by the work done in this mapping. The
Editors
... have done a really big piece of work. I wanted to speak
about the next steps. We currently
... have an Editor's draft. When do we plan to publish
something on /TR that would allow us
... to get more feedback and track the responses on the Timed
Text mailing list?
nigel: Why does it need to be on /TR for that to happen?
tmichel: It doesn't, but it would
give it more visibility. It's not easy to find that
document.
... I put a link in the wiki from our dashboard, and there was
an announcement on the public
... mailing list, but maybe in a month or two when it is more
polished we may want to put it on /TR, maybe after TPAC?
nigel: If we publish on /TR as a Note can we keep updating it?
tmichel: We can either just
publish and update, or we can publish a 1st Working Draft and
then
... updates later. It doesn't mean that it's 'final'. Some
groups feel that a Note is something
... more finalised. It's up to the group.
pal: Do we need to make that decision today or can we review it and then decide what to do?
<pal> +1
nigel: My proposal would be to assess this following TPAC when we know more the magnitude of the work to be done.
tmichel: +1
<tmichel> +1
nigel: That's agreed then I think!
tmichel: Just one small thing,
which I think I mentioned to Courtney already. I think we
should
... explicitly describe how to send the feedback. Either on
tracker to start with or in the SOTD.
nigel: +1
<scribe> ACTION: courtney Update the Mapping document Status of this document to include feedback mechanism. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/09/17-tt-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-422 - Update the mapping document status of this document to include feedback mechanism. [on Courtney Kennedy - due 2015-09-24].
nigel: I see that the document has a CC A3 license. Is that a respec requirement? Is it normal?
tmichel: I was not expecting that statement.
nigel: Do we have a W3C policy on licenses for notes?
tmichel: I'll check and come back on that.
<scribe> ACTION: tmichel Check the license on the TTML to WebVTT mapping document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/09/17-tt-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-423 - Check the license on the ttml to webvtt mapping document [on Thierry Michel - due 2015-09-24].
Action-416?
<trackbot> Action-416 -- Nigel Megitt to Edit proposal and send to htmlcue proposal reviewers as listed by tmichel, following action-415 -- due 2015-08-27 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/416
close action-416
<trackbot> Closed action-416.
nigel: A discussion has started
on the WHATWG list. The initial feedback is we need to add
more
... detail and that without it we may (inadvertantly?) have
created a bunch of possible usage
... scenarios that we didn't intend, like adding timed scripts
to elements.
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2015Sep/0032.html
nigel: It's worth having a look
at the responses. My current thought is that we may end
up
... going down a path of constraining the content of the
HTMLCue so it begins to look only
... like a small subset of HTML, to avoid dealing with those
complexities.
... So I think we need to iterate over this again and think it
through some more.
nigel: Just to note that there's
a supporting liaison on the ticket we raised, from DVB, who
have
... a working group who would like to be able to reference the
same output of CLDR as us.
http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/8915
pal: I've had no responses other than it seems like someone is looking at it, which is very encouraging.
Mike: I've forwarded the details
of this to DECE and they were supportive of adding DECE support
too.
... I haven't made that happen yet.
action-418?
<trackbot> action-418 -- Nigel Megitt to Send response back to atsc as per https://lists.w3.org/archives/member/member-tt/2015aug/0019.html -- due 2015-09-03 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/418
Mike: It's received, so no more action needed on that.
close action-418
<trackbot> Closed action-418.
nigel: Is there anything more to do on this?
mike: I made some changes since
we last looked, so it would be good if people could review
it,
... particularly the changes for EBU standards after I
discussed it with Andreas.
nigel: I think this is one for Frans and I to check.
Frans: yes.
Mike: I have a process question
about whether we need to do something in TTML2 for this,
... and if it falls under the category of group consensus.
nigel: Please could you drop me a line with the question exactly?
mike: I'll follow up offline.
nigel: We're out of time so thanks everyone. [Adjourns meeting]