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<trackbot> Date: 04 September 2015
<richardschwerdtfeger> Meeting: SVG Accessibility Task Force
<scribe> scribe: AmeliaBR
Fred: I think there have been some changes, do you want to describe them?
<fesch> abr: main differences from earlier (week and half ago) is attributes, roles haven't changed much, will try and post an updated summary before next weeks call
<fesch> abr: differences from how Fred has marked up, focus on making it machine readable.
<fesch> abr: one conflict was different use of valuemin and valuemax
<fesch> abr: some of the structural guides, Fred had distinct roles for guides
Fred: Jason sent a note to the list, suggesting we focus on what can a sighted person perceive from a chart.
Jason: My point was that the AT user should be able to access a similar level of information and precision as a sighted viewer would get.
Fred: Did you think my reply was reasonable?
Jason: I think it will depend a
lot on the graphic and how much information the author has
included. Sometimes the data is unreasonable to include, but
the sighted user would still get overall, imprecise sense of
the data.
... values and ranges and other things you would want to know
about, that can be approximated by visual inspection, even if
exact data isn't included.
Fred: That sounds more like observations that statistical min/max/mean etc.
Jason: Observations, yes, but we need to think of how to provide that in a systematic way.
<fesch> abr: good point, approach I have done so far has been annotating charts with raw data
<fesch> abr: one thing someone brought up last week, was a certain value was encoded on the chart - like x,y position
<fesch> abr: - not my ideal, but reverse engineering data may be a possible approach, to avoid doubling the size
<fesch> fe: becomes problematic when you have non linear scales, and polar transformations...
<fesch> abr: something to think about... I prefer to keep data and representation separately
Jason: I think that's reasonable, but I also think that it's important in those data-heavy cases for authors to include summary data
Fred: That's one reason I was using the ARIA min and max properties all over the place. But that wouldn't do other statistics like medians or trends.
Jason: Yes, there must be
reasonable limits. But we also need to be sure that if the full
data isn't included in accessible format, then appropriate
summary is.
... For example, I brought up sonification, and you really need
to know the data to know what frequencies should be used.
Fred: The other question I had was for when data is represented by aesthetics, such as color or size. Could you have multiple palettes, and just swap one in or the other. Maybe even audio palettes of tones.
Amelia: Author-supplied alternative palettes, or AT-generated?
Fred: Maybe author, but probably AT.
Amelia: That's pretty much what I'd suggested last week, but I'd suggested you'd need the raw data & then use it to create a new mapping. Are you suggesting an AT could map from one color palette to another without needing the data?
Fred: To a degree, although it
would be difficult for continuous color. It would be easier
with a discrete set of values.
... Even just to provide pop-up labels or tooltips.
... In RAVE?, we had a checkbox option to give labels as an
enhancement to color.
Amelia: But that's slightly easier, because that's in the same charting software. It's more complicated when the AT doesn't have the raw data, only the file.
Jason: As a reminder, we do have WCAG rule that color should never be the only distinguishing factor.
<fesch> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-a11y/2015Aug/0022.html
Fred: We want to get a clear list of roles in the module as soon as possible.
Amelia: The main change from that summary are that we agreed no special rules for special chart types.
<fesch> abr: talked about doc role - letting AT know that you are getting into a area with semantic meaning
<fesch> abr: figure is different
<fesch> abr: figure role defines how it relates to the larger document
<fesch> abr: graphics- doc would be the default element for SVG
[long discussion on focus vs point of regard, figure vs graphics-doc: when would we use both, how would they be navigated.]
Fred: Did we, or should we, resolve on the graphics-doc role?
Jason: I'm not sure it's helpful to decide on roles one at a time. I think we need to assess a taxonomy as a whole.
<fesch> abr: will try to see if graphics-doc children have different properties
[follow up of Fred's email re aria-owns, Amelia suggests maybe an aria-labelledby relationship would have been more appropriate]
trackbot, end telcon
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