Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 01 September 2015

<clown> agenda: this

<scribe> scribe: joanie

ACTION-1104: (Cynthia) UIA mapping aria-describedby when element does not exist in a11y tree.

ACTION-1528: (Alex, David) IA2 mapping for aria-current.

<clown> action-1528

<trackbot> action-1528 -- Alexander Surkov to Bolter to investigate the proper ia2 mappings for aria-current -- due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1528

JS: I had an action from a while back to contact Alex and actually email the IA2 mailing list for mappings for aria-current.

<clown> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1104947

JS: There is an bugzilla issue (URL above).
... Nothing has been done with it since last year.
... Léonie commented recently that aria-current was now stable.
... So I emailed the IA2 mailing list.
... I'd put a link for the message, but I am not sure they showed up on the list.

<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaCurrent

JS: The mappings are at the above URL.

JD: I thought for ATK/AT-SPI2 the object attribute was "current"; not "active".

JS: But Alex doesn't think STATE_ACTIVE is the proper mapping.
... Joanie explained that it really is the proper mapping for ATK/AT-SPI, but that state is a boolean. So an attribute is needed to expose the type of currentness/activeness.
... I could change the IA2 mapping to not use STATE_ACTIVE; but I'm not changing the ATK/AT-SPI2 mapping without more input.

<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#event-aria-current

JS: There's an associated event, to notify ATs when the current element changed.

JD: So if you remove the STATE_ACTIVE, what does Alex plan to do? A property-change event?

JS: Yes.

ACTION-1535: (James) AXAPI mapping for aria-current.

<clown> action-1535?

<trackbot> action-1535 -- James Craig to Investigate the axapi mappings for aria-current. -- due 2015-08-18 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1535

<clown> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146012

JS: I haven't talked to James, but there is an issue in WebKit's bugzilla (URL above)
... As of yesterday, there's been some code proposed to handle this.
... It looks like they are going to have a property:

<clown> AXCurrent = "value of aria-current"

JS: With provisos if it is outside the enumeration, it defaults to true.
... The only thing I don't see in the attachment is an event.
... I will comment on the bug to point this out.

<cyns> having webex problems

ACTION-1541: (James) AXAPI mapping for aria-modal.

<clown> action-1541?

<trackbot> action-1541 -- James Craig to Investigate and propose mappings for aria-modal property for axapi. -- due 2015-08-18 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1541

<clown> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146013#c0

JS: I haven't had a chance yet to ping James yet.
... The above URL is the associated issue.
... (Reads from issue)
... Oh, this is a duplicate of another bug.

<clown> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=138566

JS: That bug (URL above) doesn't seem to have any progress.

ACTION-1104: (Cynthia) UIA mapping aria-describedby when element does not exist in a11y tree.

<clown> action-1104?

<trackbot> action-1104 -- Cynthia Shelly to Define what the accessibility API mapping is for UIA on aria-describedby in section 5.5.1 table when the element does not exist in the accessibility tree such as when css: display:none applies -- due 2015-08-01 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1104

CS: Give me a couple weeks.

JS: September 15th.

ACTION-1309: (Cynthia) UIA and UIA Express mappings for aria-colindex and aria-rowindex.

<clown> action-1309?

<trackbot> action-1309 -- Cynthia Shelly to Determine the best place to map aria-colindex and aria-rowindex for msaa+uiexpress and uia. -- due 2015-08-01 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1309

CS: That one is easier. Give me a week.
... Or just leave it overdue.

JS: I'll make a note to revisit this one next week.

ACTION-1373: (Cynthia) Test case for aria-posinset and aria-setsize when provided on only some elements.

<clown> action-1373?

<trackbot> action-1373 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a test case for when aria-posinset and aria-setsize are provided explicitly on some but not all elements. -- due 2015-08-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1373

JS: I think this is a matter of saying what the browser should do when they are not provided on every element.

CS: Give me two weeks on this one.

ACTION-1527: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for aria-current.

<clown> action-1527?

<trackbot> action-1527 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate the proper uia mappings for aria-current -- due 2015-08-19 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1527

CS: Did aria-current happen?

<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#aria-current

JS: It's in the spec (URL above)
... It now takes values (reads them)

CS: Give me a month.

JS: October 1st.

ACTION-1547: (Rich) Update test cases for rowgroup within a grid.

<clown> action-1547?

<trackbot> action-1547 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Update test test cases involving rowgroup to ensure they are included within a grid container and to ensure that the expected result matches the new mappings -- due 2015-08-19 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1547

RS: I don't know what we're going to do about that.

JS: Discuss it Thursday?

RS: I put out the agenda, but I don't recall putting rowgroup on it.

JS: The Thursday agenda has action-1578

action-1578

<trackbot> action-1578 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Discuss issue-700 in aria task force meeting. -- due 2015-08-27 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1578

issue-700

<trackbot> issue-700 -- Discuss rowgroup, tbody, and thead in aapis -- closed

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/700

RS: I do not have action-1578 on the Thursday meeting.

JS: Oh, I was looking at the August 27th agenda.

RS: We're waiting for James. We would like consistency across platforms if possible.

JS: So you don't want to adjust the test cases until we finalize this with James?

RS: Right, but Michael was going to take the first pass on the test harness.

JS: If I make this due October 27, will that work?

RS: Sure.
... We also need to get the exit criteria from Michael.

ACTION-1593: (Cynthia) Gap analysis of AAPI differences for managed states.

<clown> action-1593?

<trackbot> action-1593 -- Cynthia Shelly to Compare implementations of AAPI managed states and look for gaps. -- due 2015-07-29 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1593

JS: You were going to look at all the managed states and compare different AAPIs and list the differences.

<clown> issue-706?

<trackbot> issue-706 -- Describe/define AAPI managed states -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/706

CS: TPAC would be a good timeline for this.

ACTION-1661: (Cynthia) UIA and UIA Express mappings for aria-roledescription.

<clown> action-1661?

<trackbot> action-1661 -- Cynthia Shelly to Propose uia express and uia mappings for aria-roledescription. -- due 2015-07-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1661

CS: Is that still active?

JS: There's nothing in the mapping guide yet.

<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#aria-roledescription

JS: The link for the spec is above.

CS: I'll do that for TPAC as well. I have some concerns.

RS: Some AT vendors have some concerns about it as well.
... My biggest concern is misuse by authors.
... Putting it in the API is not as big of a risk.
... At some point before CR, we should go through the spec one more time.
... We've agreed up to this point, but we should take one more look to be sure there's nothing being added that is dangerous.

(Bryan) Discuss selected vs checked state of radio buttons on Windows (UIA)

JS: Bryan wanted to discuss this today.
... Do you have an action/issue associated with this?

BG: I have a question.
... Is IAccessible gone?

CS: It's still there in Windows, but not implemented in Edge.

<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaCheckedTrue

BG: In IE 11, selected is used to identify when radios are checked.
... Everything else in Windows uses the checked state.
... So if you use JAWS, it reports it's selected and not checked at the same time.

CS: Every other radio button in Windows has the selected state.

RS: Also, it's a single-select in a radio group.

RS and CS: We could modify the implementation spec to address this.

<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Joseph remove the MSAA plus UIA Express column [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/09/01-aapi-irc]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1717 - Remove the msaa plus uia express column [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-09-08].

<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaCheckedTrue

JS: The URL above has aria-checked true.
... The UIA one doesn't say anything about selected.
... There's a special case for UIA Express.

CS: That's an error.
... Give me an action to double-check this.

BG: That brings up the question for me about the difference between selected and checked.

CS: In Windows they are different (checkboxes and radio buttons).
... So if people are using radio buttons as checkboxes it is an author error.

BG: No, I mean that there are different keyboard commands, for instance to move focus amongst the elements without toggling their state.

CS: The radio group is the control that handles this.
... In Windows, you would be talking about focus to move amongst the items in the group.

<clown> ACTION: cynthia to check that the UIA mappings for aria-checked are correct for radio buttons and menuitem radio buttons. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/09/01-aapi-irc]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1718 - Check that the uia mappings for aria-checked are correct for radio buttons and menuitem radio buttons. [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2015-09-08].

<clown> action-1718

<trackbot> action-1718 -- Cynthia Shelly to Check that the uia mappings for aria-checked are correct for radio buttons and menuitem radio buttons. -- due 2015-09-08 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1718

BG: Sounds good to implement both and leave it to the ATs to handle.

JS: I couldn't find anything about this in the issues and actions for the mapping spec or for the ARIA spec.
... Therefore I created a new action for you (Cynthia).

Action triage for accessible name calculation (https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/26)

JS: I was going through stuff that needed to be done for ARIA 1.1 and came across this list of name calculation actions.
... Most of them are assigned to me, a number of them I do not understand.

<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaCheckedTrue

<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/26

JS: So I wanted to bring them up here, give you the URL, and see if you know where they come from.
... I still have pending to create a flow chart.

<clown> action-1367?

<trackbot> action-1367 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to ARIA bug 2B (control values) does not mention presentational controls; propose edit. -- due 2014-02-10 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1367

JS: Regarding action-1367... All I can think of is that this relates to controls embedded inside another control.

RS: But not everything has a value.

JS: That's not what this issue says though. And I have no idea what a "presentational control" is.

RS: Who brought this in?

JS: I have no idea.
... It was created on the 3rd of February.

RS: Let me go back to the list and look.

<richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-aria-minutes.html

RS: The minutes from that day are above.
... There's nothing in here. I don't see anything in here about value.

<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/

<clown> action-1379

<trackbot> action-1379 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to TAC should cover rendered descendants from external sources: svg, iframe, etc. (Compose text and get final review form ARIA subteam) -- due 2015-09-25 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1379

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Found Scribe: joanie
Inferring ScribeNick: joanie
Default Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Cynthia_Shelly
Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer Joanmarie_Diggs Bryan_Garaventa Rich_Schwerdtfeger Cynthia_Shelly
Found Date: 01 Sep 2015
People with action items: cynthia joseph

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