See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 20 August 2015
<richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0049.html
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0049.html
<scribe> scribe: fesch
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591737
rs: Mozilla has bug for
describedat
... followup meeting with MS (CS on vacation)
<clown> s/bug for desribedat/bug for details-summary/
rs: details and summary approach
- like it because it works for everyone
... we need to provide metadata on what the description is
for... hinges on detail/summary approach - which Apple
likes...
... like that it could be used for alternate types of info like
a chart
... what we need to do - is make it discoverable - maybe use a
div style... to let you know there is more info... how to make
a button appear? - use a media query
... Apple uses media queries, then you could choose to make the
button visible, easier for publishers too
... meeting next week with microsoft, to see what issues they
have with it
<MichaelC> Extended Description Analysis
<Zakim> clown, you wanted to ask for the url to the describeat requirements document.
mc: walking through extended
description analysis
... extended description analysis provides info that we can use
to compare approaches
<Jemma_JaEun_Ku> me/great job, Michael
rs & mc: discuss tweaking info in the tables
jw: in favor of working further on details and media query, use work done by IndieUI group,
<clown> Jason's email: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0055.html
jw: when there is data provided for accessibility, then we could identify the controls as an accessibility controls -
rs: please respond to Jason on the list
jw: you can define a new media feature though JavaScript, and can define different kinds of media queries ... see email
js: Two formal objections against
ARIA charter draft
... Judy is trying to negotiate a resolution, PF charter
extended into October
... other impact - TPAC has been set up as PF function, 4 days,
first two days (Monday, Tuesday) scheduled for ARIA work
... APA work set for Thursday and Friday
mc; question on getting test harness working and getting test cases
rs: we should talk about exit criteria
mc: need clear list of things changed from AR?IA 1.0
rs: we now have native host language semantics in HTML, now don't need explicit role -
mc: maybe we need divs and spans...
rs: maybe we need both, we could put role=grid on a table
mc: think aria semantics need to stand on it's own, if we need to test with HTML semantics...
clown: which specs are we testing?
MC: don't want confounding to happen in testing
<clown> http://clown.idrc.ocad.ca/Fluid/aria/FocusableRowGroup.html
rs: if we have SVG we will need special test cases for that also
clown: can we test SVG?
rs: we are still working on the
vocuabulary
... maybe we can call it HTML testing...
<Jemma_JaEun_Ku> +q
rs: may change with the new graphics module as it may have native mappings
jk: do we have any documentation on the testing?
<MichaelC> PF Test Harness
Topic Action 1699
<clown> action-1699
<trackbot> action-1699 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Modify the aria-busy text to reflect the new aria-busy text -- due 2015-08-13 -- CLOSED
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1699
<MichaelC> ARIA 1.0 test plan
RESOLUTION: Action 1699 complete
<richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: Issue 694 is closed
clown: any issues to mapping spec?
several: no
<clown> action-1700
<trackbot> action-1700 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Modify the aria spec. to reflect the changed text of the second paragraph for aria-current -- due 2015-08-13 -- CLOSED
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1700
RESOLUTION: ACTION 1700 closed and ISSUE 716 is resolved
<clown> issue-736?
<trackbot> issue-736 -- aria-label overriding listitem and treeitem content when need to know content is valuable -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/736
rs: folks are putting an
aria-label on list items and tree items - Freedom Scientific
created a bug because list item is a container
... the AT is hearing the aria-label but not hearing that there
is more content
clown: my tests show that the content are is the accessibility tree
jd: list item - that are not widgets - orca ignores name
clown: it's crazy that a non
interactive list items have a niame
... if the author doesn't supply the name, it goes into the
content and makes ridiculously long names
jd: is an ARIA problem - in that
we ask authors to provide names
... why are authors providing a name
rs: maybe it is too long
jd: paragraphs don't have names
rs: people are getting poor advice from their accessibility experts
js: a screen reader can resolve a name...
jd: what you are saying, folks are doing bad things, so the AT are reacting to bad things...
rs: designers like to put really hefty things in a list item (links, text...)
<clown> <span role="listitem">See <a href="http://www.ibm.com">IBM's home page</a></span>
jd: how is that different than a paragraph
rs: a screen reader is trying to
zip through the list...
... people are using a listitem as a widget
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#option
rs: people are putting more content in the element than you would expect, how do we tell the AT they should go into those
fe: are they using them like twisties?
rs: kinda like that...
clown: this is just like a paragraph, I don't see why the AT can't look in there - it is in the accessibility tree
jd: orca assumes....
rs: is there something we should be doing to tell AT to drill down?
bg: I saw something like this
yesterday, and it is really annoying
... I don't see why you would have things inside a list box
<clown> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/forms.html#the-option-element
rs: what I am finding today is - that they only look at the visible page
js: do we need the authoring guide to deal with this?
rs: do we want to do anything with this at this point?
clown: depneds or role, not
sure
... options don't allow anything but text
rs: are you saying the browser
will not render it?
... people use role= option not the HTML element, ans the HTML
element is too restricutive
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#option
rs: do you want to take it to the authoring practices group?
clown: we should review the
requirement for an accessible name on a listitem
... don't think listitem should require a name
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#listitem
rs: what id the definition of Accessible Name Requried
<clown> http://freedesktop.org/software/pulseaudio/doxygen/
clown: would like to remove requirement for name
jd: cool with not requiring a name
<Jemma_JaEun_Ku> In regards to Authouring practice TF meeting, we have a meeting next week. Meetings for last two weeks were cancelled. We are waiting for Matt to come back and to chair meetings
rs: should we remove name from content? lets look at this next week
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/17
<clown> action-358
<trackbot> action-358 -- Michael Cooper to - investigate modification of schema to address default values for particular roles -- due 2015-04-16 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/358
<tzviya> EPUB validation tool: https://github.com/IDPF/epubcheck
RESOLUTION: close ACTION-358 due to lack of requirement
<clown> action-1073
<trackbot> action-1073 -- Matthew King to Update aria-selected to reflect that it communicates selectability and clarify responsibility for ensuring aria-selected=false is on selectable elements -- due 2015-06-04 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1073
<clown> action-1465?
<trackbot> action-1465 -- Shane McCarron to Or shane to fix default values in 1.1 respec -- due 2014-06-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1465
<clown> action-1490?
<trackbot> action-1490 -- James Nurthen to Propose spec text edit for issue-610: comboboxes should allow complex children elements -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1490
<clown> issue-610?
<trackbot> issue-610 -- Comboboxes should allow complex children elements -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/610
bg: how do you know what you are interacting with?
<clown> action-1607?
<trackbot> action-1607 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Modify aria-valuenow, aria-valuemax, aria-valuemin to reflect the default values used in html5 for the range control -- due 2015-04-02 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1607
<clown> action-1606?
<trackbot> action-1606 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Create proposal to modify aria-valuemin, aria-valuemax, and aria-valuenow to have reasonable default values when they are missing, similar to HTML5 spec on <input type="range"> -- due 2015-06-11 -- CLOSED
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1606
<joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/commit/e7883a9e41
RESOLUTION: closed ACTION-1607
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) FAILED: s/bug for desribedat/bug for details-summary/ Succeeded: s/clouwn/clown/ Succeeded: s/ARIA 1.1 test plan/ARIA 1.0 test plan/ Succeeded: s/clou/clo/ Succeeded: s/IPN/ION/ Found Scribe: fesch Inferring ScribeNick: fesch Present: Joanmarie_Diggs fesch Joseph_Scheuhammer MichaelC MarkusG tzviya_siegman Found Date: 20 Aug 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/08/20-aria-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]