See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 18 August 2015
<clown> agenda: this
yes
looking for the number
one sec
no webex meeting number
we should put thm in the topic
no
one sec
<scribe> scribe: joanie
BG: This is on radio buttons
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaCheckedTrue
JS: MSAA and UIA Express use the
selected item pattern and set selected on the radio buttons;
not checked.
... Cynthia told me years ago that this is how it works and I
accepted it.
BG: But that's now how it works on Windows. There is no selected state.
JS: Ok, then I'd raise an issue
against the mapping spec and possibly create an action for
Cynthia to confirm this.
... At the moment I have no way to check this.
BG: I am looking at Windows 7. I don't know if Windows 8 or 10 has changed.
JS: In pure UIA it uses the
toggle pattern.
... It's only MSAA and UIA Express that uses the selection
pattern.
... So you have to be sure you're looking at the right one.
JD: And this is definitely not the AT just reporting "checked" for selected?
<clown> for the minutes, here is the start of the email thread where bryan raised this issue: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0008.html
BG: No.
... Firefox matches what I'm seeing in Windows.
... But in IE, it's using the selected state rather than the
checked state.
... As a result, screen readers are saying it's not checked
(even though it is). And it's saying selected.
JS: I can try to duplicate this
with the inspector.
... But you can either carry on the discussion on the public
mailing list with Cynthia, or raise an issue against the
mapping spec so we can discuss it here.
BG: I tried to continue the discussion, but Cynthia is on vacation.
Conclusion: We can wait until Cynthia gets back.
JS: I've been away for two weeks. I don't know if you met, looked at your action items, etc.
BG: No
JD: No
JS: I did skim the DPub stuff on
aria-describedat.
... And it looks like James Craig and Rich might be leaning
towards details-summary HTML5.1 elements.
... I see it on the Thursday agenda.
<clown> action-1526?
<trackbot> action-1526 -- Matthew King to Propose practices for fallback role of text in authoring guide -- due 2014-11-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1526
JS: For this meeting, I went
through the actions list looking for things that was overdue
and came across the above.
... Why is this (action-1526) in the mapping spec? It's best
practices.
<clown> issue-435?
<trackbot> issue-435 -- Consider role="text" to expose elements (and contents) as static text node -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/435
JS: Oh, it's the associated issue
(issue-435).
... The product for that is implementation spec, but it
shouldn't be. Right?
... I'm going to force action-1526 to be part of the authoring
guide. Any objections?
BG: I haven't heard from Matt recently.
JS: I've changed the product for action-1526 to the authoring guide.
<clown> action-1529?
<trackbot> action-1529 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Investigate the proper atk/at-spi mappings for aria-current -- due 2014-11-18 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1529
JS: I did the edits for aria-current and I just want to confirm that it's right.
<clown> https://github.com/w3c/aria/commit/de39ed3cdf37d6d7d3c701afc089cddf842cfd05
JD: Mapping it to
ATK/AT-SPI2_STATE_ACTIVE looks good. I'm not sure about the
object attribute name.
... Alex might also object to the object attribute name.
JS: And in IA2, STATE_ACTIVE
means something else I think.
... Like active descendant.
JD: Were I you, I'd ask on the ia2 mailing list as Alex, and James Teh, and I, and others might have some things to discuss.
JS: If you scroll down to the bottom of the commit, you'll see I've also added the event for ATK.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#mapping_events_state-change#event-aria-current
JD: In ATK/AT-SPI2, it's
object:state-changed:active; not object:state-changed:current.
We don't have a "current" state.
... Just out of curiosity, is it really ToggleStateProperty for
UIA event?
JS: No. I'll correct that.
... It was a copy&paste error.
JS: I'm going to write Alex and David on the IA2 mailing list to get their opinion.
JS: I was going to email them
this morning. I'll put it off for another week and email Alex
and David about the mapping for role="text".
... Though I think he already has something implemented.
BG: One use case for the text
role: Some people will have image links which have embedded
images. What happens in cases like that is the AT (like JAWS)
reports multiple links rather than one.
... So using the text role would flatten it out.
<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#text
<clown> "An element whose entire subtree should be exposed to accessibility APIs as plain text."
<clown> IA2_ROLE_TEXT_FRAME
JD: Were it me, I'd ask on list before assuming the mapping is IA2_ROLE_TEXT_FRAME. My concern is that James Teh might be surprised if an image or something else which is not text shows up as a "text frame".
<clown> "Collection of objects that constitute a logical text entity. "
JD: Regarding the above "text
entity", note that the text entity might be a
non-caret-navigable image with no string.
... So just as a sanity check, I'd be sure James Teh is aware
of this and has no issues.
... We dealt with this in ATK by mapping to the new "static"
role.
JS: If it's not text frame, then what is it? They don't seem to have anything like role static in IA2.
JD: I don't know. But we should ask James Teh.
<clown> action-1533?
<trackbot> action-1533 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Investigate and possibly create a minimal/skeleton javascript at-spi2 listener with the aim of automating the 1.1 tests. -- due 2015-07-23 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1533
JD: Let's put this back another
couple of months.
... This might be obsoleted by something Rich and Cynthia had
talked about.
<clown> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/WebAccessibilityAPI#Node_interface_extension
JS: Alex is also working on
something in this area. See the URL above.
... Ok, I'm setting this action to October 23rd.
<clown> action-1662?
<trackbot> action-1662 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose IA2 mapping for aria-roledescription -- due 2015-06-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1662
JS: I just did this today.
<clown> issue-636?
<trackbot> issue-636 -- Continue discussion of localized role "name" (or custom role "descriptions" on known role types) -- closed
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/636
JS: I found issue-636. If you look at the fourth note, James Craig back in 2014 already knew the mappings.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaRoleDescription
JS: So I took discussions from
Alex, stuff from Joanie, and what James said in that note. I
put them all together, and the result is at the above
URL.
... Everything is done but UIA Express.
... Probably UIA Express will use what UIA has.
... (Reads resulting mappings)
... I'm inclined to close action-1662.
... Also action-1660 (the ATK/AT-SPI mapping), but leave
action-1661 open.
... Objections?
(None)
<clown> action-1667?
<trackbot> action-1667 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Update the mapping spec for aria role region to reflect its landmark inheritance as defined in the aria 1.1 spec. -- due 2015-07-06 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1667
JS: This came up as due. I read it and had a question.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#region
JS: But I'm not quite sure what
I'm supposed to do.
... I do remember that we, in the ARIA spec, rewrote the region
role so that it inherits from landmark. So it must have a
label.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-region
JS: If we look at the region role mapping (above), all the mappings are pane/panel related.
JD: In the case of ATK/AT-SPI2,
if a region is a landmark, then I would think map it to
ROLE_LANDMARK.
... And then I guess expose "region" as the xml-roles
value.
JS: There is a comment in the action, what happens if there is no label?
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#region
JD: If memory serves me, I had forgotten that region had to have a label (i.e. it was not optional).
JS: Confirmed.
JD + JS: So it will never be mapped to ROLE_PANEL; a region is always a ROLE_LANDMARK now.
JD: This might be yet another
thing to ask on the IA2 mailing list.
... Because IA2 doesn't have a landmark role.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/title/topic/ Succeeded: s/towards details./towards details-summary HTML5.1 elements./ Succeeded: s/by/but/ Succeeded: s/UIA and UIA Express/UIA Express/ Found embedded ScribeOptions: -final *** RESTARTING DUE TO EMBEDDED OPTIONS *** Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie Present: Bryan_Garaventa Joanmarie_Diggs Joseph_Scheuhammer Regrets: Rich_Schwerdtfeger Cynthia_Shelly Found Date: 18 Aug 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-aapi-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]