See also: IRC log
<scribe> scribe: MichielBijl
jamesn: not everybody can edit
the wiki pages
... only certain people have access
... do we have alternatives
MichielBijl: maybe put them in gh-pages?
LJWatson: I can probably do
that.
... keep it in the same place, able to do pull requests.
LJWatson will move Wiki pages to gh-pages
jamesn: I'd like to see a div version of a button
MichielBijl: I'll add that tonight.
annabbott: add description for the toggle button
jamesn: that should be in the authoring practices
<jamesn> Toggle button: A two-state button that can be either off (not pressed) or on (pressed). To tell assistive technologies that a button is a toggle button, specify a value for the attribute aria-pressed. For example, a button labeled mute in an audio player could indicate that sound is muted by setting the pressed state true. Important: the label on a toggle button should never change when the state changes. In this example, when the pressed state is true,
<jamesn> the label should not change to "Unmute"" or "Muted."
LJWatson: if you change the label, why is not a toggle button?
jamesn: because the button is
changed, so the it's no longer a toggle button.
... the button example is different from John's example
... is everyone okay with having different examples?
LJWatson: I think we should have consistent examples; no preferences for which one.
annabbott: it states that you should not reuse other elements to recreate buttons. We do that all the time.
LJWatson: you should use a button
element
... nobody bothers to implement keyboard support for replicate
buttons
jamesn: adding event handlers to duplicate spacebar support on links is really hard
annabbott: print button should
not have aria-pressed
... maybe space them out or add a heading
jamesn: is it possible to style both buttons the same
annabbott: JavaScript looks squished together
jamesn: if you familiar with JavaScript this should not be a problem
annabbott: I'd like to see the examples broken up to two different parts of the page
*crickets*
jamesn: I feel we are making it longer and more complex that way
LJWatson: focus on examples for now
<jamesn> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/examples/slider/js/slider.js
MichielBijl: could add comments to JavaScript
LJWatson: need coding guide lines
Jaeun: what is the TPAC meeting?
jamesn: jamesn is probably the best one to answer that. Two weeks of ARIA meetings
janina is probably…*
MichielBijl will finish alert and slider examples before next meeting
MichielBijl: tablist should be above tab panel
jamesn: I agree
... order should be: tablist, tab, tab panel
... that is editorial, stick it in a bug anyway
... don't understand why tablist is one word, and tab panel are
two words
... don't like the first paragraph of the description
... should we explain it at all?
LJWatson: I agree; don't have to explain what a tab interface is
annabbott: what is wrong?
jamesn & LJWatson: it's over complicated English
<jamesn> A tabbed interface component is a set of layered areas where only one page is displayed at a time.
<jamesn> areas?
LJWatson: not sure about pages
MichielBijl: agree
jamesn: reagions?
All: can be confused with role="region"
MichielBijl & LJWatson: panels
<jamesn> A tabbed interface component is a set of layered areas, known as tab panels, where only one area is displayed at a time.
jamesn: how about areas
annabbott: better that the current text
MichielBijl: can't we compare it to browser tabs?
jamesn: can we drop the line about “The general look…”
All: yes
annabbott: also drop the next line.
<jamesn> A tabbed interface component is a set of layered areas, known as tab panels, where only one area is displayed at a time. The tabs are arranged along one of the edges of the contents but most commonly are found at the top. The user navigates and makes the contents of each area visible by interacting with the title "tab". Terms for understanding Tab Panels include:
LJWatson: should we specify that they are commonly placed horizontally?
jamesn: don't think so, you would
use a lot of space if you didnt
... let's move on to keyboard interaction
... need to change left/right arrow stuff
... cannot always activate selected tab because of performance.
Allow users to activate with space
MichielBijl: when would this cause performance issues
jamesn: tabs that use database queries for example
annabbott: how do users activate tabs?
LJWatson: enter or space
jamesn: how do we indicate to user that a tab must be activated?
LJWatson: aria-selected?
annabbott: aria-selected does not
indicate a user must activate it
... AT's would have to reload the virtual page
MichielBijl: what does aria-selected indicate?
bgaraventa1979: it indicates which tab is selected, not the one that has focus
MichielBijl: so if a tab has aria-selected set to false, it indicates that the tab can be activated?
jamesn: I guess
LJWatson: that is correct
annabbott: Bryan you said something about multi select; I Don't see that here at all
jamesn: just ignore it, would complicate the guide
LJWatson: I'm with you on that one
jamesn: need to change arrow
functionality
... do we still want control+up arrow functions?
MichielBijl: combination is reserved on OS X for specific functions
annabbott: how do you tab out of a panel?
LJWatson: use shift+tab
annabbott: so if you're 30 tabs deep, you have to go 30 tabs back?
MichielBijl: isn't this solved by the control+page up/page down?
jamesn: has anyone seen this implemented? (control+page up/down
LJWatson: conflicts with browser tab functionality in Firefox
As does Internet Explorer
Jaeun: I agree with you LJWatson
jamesn: should we drop all control-key support?
bgaraventa1979: yes
jamesn: next: alt+delete
... we have implemented this
LJWatson: is it available somewhere?
jamesn: not at this moment
MichielBijl: should there be an
alternative control+page down/up?
... like shift+[ / shift+]?
jamesn: it depends on what's in
the panel
... make them optional
... no objection if someone comes up with an alternative
annabbott: how do we make them discoverable
jamesn: that's the problem with all key strokes we come up with
LJWatson: if developers don't implement these now, will they implement there own variations if we don't specify them?
jamesn: if you want to take up an action that is fine
MichielBijl: I'd be happy to
LJWatson: very hard to implement
alt+del when focus is anywhere in the panel
... allow for deletion when tab title is selected
Jaeun: what is the use case for deletion?
jamesn: we have tabs where users can input a query; it's more close than delete
<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28993
jamesn has submitted a bug, we'll continue discussion next meeting
<jamesn> *** Next time complete Tab - start at debate of delete ***
No meeting unless Matt can make it
I guess I'm not, meeting was ended
LJWatson: you can do it, i'll follow
Me neither
Sorry LJWatson
LJWatson: yeah go ahead
<LJWatson> rssagent, make minutes
LJWatson: you are in the present list twice
As Leonie and LJWatson
<LJWatson> Think James and I both added me.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: MichielBijl Inferring ScribeNick: MichielBijl Present: Ann_Abbott Bryan_Garaventa Jemma LJWatson Michiel_Bijl James_Nurthen Regrets: Jon_Gunderson Got date from IRC log name: 27 Jul 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/07/27-aria-apg-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]