See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 30 June 2015
<clown> agenda: this
<clown> issue=-708?
<clown> issue-708?
<trackbot> issue-708 -- The phrase "If not already excluded from the accessibility tree per the rules above" implies that the listed conditions do not override. Is that correct? -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/708
<scribe> scribe: joanie
<clown> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28816
JS: This is a bug that Jason Kiss
raised a while ago.
... Summary: He's noting that certain roles (banner,
navigation, complementary, contentinfo, article and form) don't
have any role information in the core mapping spec.
... I replied and said that information is in the xml-roles
object attribute.
... To which he said we should give them a real role.
... Then I thought, how does an AT know to look at the object
attribute?
RS: They look at
role="region".
... Landmark is abstract, so what you'd need to do is use
role="region". Then they'd look for more information.
JS: I did have a conversation with Joanie about this.
JD: Orca only looks at xml-roles when it "has to."
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-banner
JS: It turns out ATK/AT-SPI2
already handles all of these cases.
... I put the URL in the room (above)
RS: Looking at banner... What does AT-SPI2? ROLE_LANDMARK.
JS: So Orca sees it's a landmark
and then looks at the object attributes to see which one.
... For UIA Cynthia said to expose role grouping with a
localized control type matching the AriaRole.
... I predict that in IA2, the role you get is based on the tag
you use.
RS: We could add a ROLE_LANDMARK
for IA2.
... (Tries test case in Firefox)
BG: What if you put a role="banner" on an iframe?
(Group ponders)
(Scribe shudders)
RS: AccRole is banner.
JS: In MSAA there is an AccRole
field for accessible role. It's a string.
... According to the MSAA documentation, only known MSAA roles
should go in that value.
... But Gecko puts "banner" as the value for AccRole.
RS: The accessible role is section for an actual section. For div it's also a section. For paragraph, it's a role of paragraph.
JS: What is the IA2 role?
RS: The AccRole in all those
cases is banner.
... The IA2 roles are as I described earlier.
... And the xml-roles object attribute has banner.
... Do we want to create an IA2 role of landmark?
JS: Yes, but will it get done in the 1.1 time frame?
RS: It's a constant.
... I think it's an enum. Let me look.
... We could add a ROLE_LANDMARK at the end.
<richardschwerdtfeger> http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/_accessible_role_8idl.html#ae37ff81431ee3762a5d41a2cb909108d
RS: The URL above is the
documentation for IA2 roles.
... I'm looking at the mappings to see how we can do this
consistently.
<clown> Cynthia says: "For UIA, these should be mapped to the group control type with a localized control type that matches the aria role."
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-region
JS: (Reads the mapping of region)
JD: Given that as Bryan and Rich stated, a named region is a landmark, we probably want to update the mapping Joseph just read.
<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#region
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#region
RS: I think there should be an
action here to map region to landmark and then get Alex to add
a ROLE_LANDMARK to IA2.
... Let's give Alex an action to add that to IA2.
JS: But that's not a W3C
issue.
... That takes care of landmark, but there are other roles that
Jason pointed out, like article.
... Article and form lack UIA roles.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-article
<clown> see the UIA entry. All it says is, "Expose as text string in AriaRole".
<clown> ACTION: Joseph to update the mapping spec for aria role region to reflect its landmark inheritance as defined in the aria 1.1 spec. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/06/30-aapi-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1667 - Update the mapping spec for aria role region to reflect its landmark inheritance as defined in the aria 1.1 spec. [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-07].
<clown> action-1667?
<trackbot> action-1667 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Update the mapping spec for aria role region to reflect its landmark inheritance as defined in the aria 1.1 spec. -- due 2015-07-07 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1667
(Group discusses some IE issues)
JS: I've given myself an action to do something about role region with respect to its landmark status.
<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Action Add a IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK to IA2. This will tell ATS to look at the xml-roles value for landmarks [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/06/30-aapi-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Error finding 'Action'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.
<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Alex Add a IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK to IA2. This will tell ATS to look at the xml-roles value for landmarks [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/06/30-aapi-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Error finding 'Alex'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.
<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Surkov Add a IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK to IA2. This will tell ATS to look at the xml-roles value for landmarks [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/06/30-aapi-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1668 - Add a ia2_role_landmark to ia2. this will tell ats to look at the xml-roles value for landmarks [on Alexander Surkov - due 2015-07-07].
<clown> action-1668?
<trackbot> action-1668 -- Alexander Surkov to Add a ia2_role_landmark to ia2. this will tell ats to look at the xml-roles value for landmarks -- due 2015-07-07 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1668
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-article
JS: The issue about article and form are just UIA questions.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-form
JS: Links above are for the
mappings.
... How do you know it's a form? How do you know to go look at
the string?
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/localized role name/localized control type matching the AriaRole/ Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer Joanmarie_Diggs Rich_Schwerdtfeger Bryan_Garaventa Regrets: Cynthia_Shelly Found Date: 30 Jun 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/06/30-aapi-minutes.html WARNING: No person found for ACTION item: action add a ia2_role_landmark to ia2. this will tell ats to look at the xml-roles value for landmarks [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/06/30-aapi-minutes.html#action02] People with action items: alex joseph surkov WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]