See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 09 June 2015
<clown> agenda: this
<scribe> scribe: joanie
<richardschwerdtfeger> yeah, send me all that please
<richardschwerdtfeger> thanks
<clown> issue-635?
<trackbot> issue-635 -- Determine if uaig mappings for rowgroup are correct -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/635
<clown> action-1546?
<trackbot> action-1546 -- David Bolter to Make sure the rowgroup mapping for msaa/ia2 is accurate -- due 2014-12-23 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1546
<clown> action-1643?
<trackbot> action-1643 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Provide mappings for role="rowgroup" for atk/at-spi when there is an accessible in the a11y tree for the element. -- due 2015-06-09 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1643
JS: I'll give you a brief update
about what's going on with rowgroup.
... I've sent email to James Craig about my example with
rowgroups that are interactive, focusable, etc.
... He's not replied.
... I looked at this using the Apple accessibility
inspector.
... There's no rowgroups in the tree.
... It looks like when the rowgroup is focused, the web area is
focused.
RS: I don't understand.
<clown> http://clown.idrc.ocad.ca/Fluid/aria/FocusableRowGroup.html
JS: The above is my
example.
... There's the Morning Rush Hour. If you Tab down you can
focus that rowgroup.
... (Explains his example)
RS: So the whole web page?
JS: Yes.
RS: That sounds like a bug.
JS: But they don't expose rowgroup, so where else are they going to put focus?
BG: I'm looking at the spec.
Reading rowgroup, it doesn't say that it's supposed to be
interactive.
... Row supports interactive, selected, etc.
... But rowgroup does not include active descendant as an
attribute.
RS: Part of the problem might be due to the fact we had no mappings.
<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#rowgroup
RS: If something is focusable, isn't there something you're supposed to be doing to expose the object.
JD: Just file a bug against Safari.
BG: I was thinking that all the
others support aria-activedescendant.
... I think rowgroup should also support
aria-activedescendant.
JS: I will file a bug against WebKit.
RS: This wasn't an issue for HTML4 because tabindex did not apply to all elements.
JS: Right. It was limited to anchors, form fields, and the like.
RS: Now tabindex is on
everything.
... Because it's focusable, not mapping it is a serious bug in
WebKit.
JS: For ATK, rowgroup will be mapped to ROLE_PANEL if the element is exposed.
RS: And as a group for everything else?
JS: IA2 does have a pane role.
RS: Didn't we already decide it would be mapped as a group for the other platforms?
JS: If it's not focusable, we want it not mapped, right?
BG: Unless it has aria-owns.
(Discussion about what to do with the non-interactive rowgroups)
BG: I like the idea of exposing it all the time because it would support labeling.
JS: If you label it, then it has to be exposed because the name can't just float around.
RS: So it's a panel in ATK, and a
group for the rest.
... On the Mac API, you have role, subrole, and role
description.
JS: I think that comes out of the
bug report.
... Do you want to discuss that here and now?
RS: What happens to group?
<richardschwerdtfeger> JD: My only concern is can the AXRoleDescription be free floating text?
<richardschwerdtfeger> JD: There are a few roles where the accessibility API does not change as a result of OS changes?
<richardschwerdtfeger> JD: I am using Fedora 22. FF exposes new versions for which on older versions of the platform there are no APIs that are consistent with the changes in the FF implementation (mapping)
<richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: Apple “can” update everything when they change Safari - inluding VoiceOver, APIs, etc.
JS: I can put in what Rich suggested for AX API mappings and add a comment saying "To be determined".
<clown> action-842?
<trackbot> action-842 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a diagram to support section 1.2 A11Y vs DOM tree -- due 2015-09-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/842
JS: Cynthia is not here, but
emailed me to indicate she'd updated her action. So I'll
look.
... Looking at the action, it's due on 30 Sept now.
... What is the due date for ARIA 1.1?
RS: I'd like to have it go to CR sometime in fall.
JS: Does that mean all the tests are run?
RS: No. You don't have to have the tests when you enter CR.
JS: This is a diagram. It doesn't depend on tests.
RS: But document freeze date should be around TPAC.
JS: She says it will land on
September 30th.
... So it could still land in ARIA 1.1. Otherwise, it becomes
part of ARIA 2.
<clown> action-1620?
<trackbot> action-1620 -- Cynthia Shelly to Propose UIA Express and UIA mappings for aria-placeholder. -- due 2015-06-09 -- CLOSED
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1620
JS: She closed this one; no, I closed it. That must mean I made the edits.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaPlaceholder
JS: I know what's outstanding:
There are mappings in the Editor's Draft for UIA.
... But last week she wanted this to be included in the
Accessible Name calculation.
... But she wasn't sure if it took precedence over title.
... I don't want it in the name computation.
RS: It's not a suitable replacement for labels.
action-1644
<trackbot> action-1644 -- Cynthia Shelly to Check which is the actual last resort betwen @title and @aria-placeholder. -- due 2015-06-09 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1644
JS: Action 1644 is the action
assigned to Cynthia to get an answer about title versus
placeholder.
... The UIA mappings are already in the Editor's Draft.
<clown> action-1311?
<trackbot> action-1311 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Clarify that presentation role should preserve separation of nodes within tables/lists; work out in UAIG 1.1 and with implementors/vendors how to resolve this. -- due 2015-05-26 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1311
JS: This is one that's been on my
todo list for a long time.
... I've got in my notes on this, that it's waiting on the
generic container role ARIA issue.
action-1515
<trackbot> action-1515 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Discuss issue-678 at the mon aria teleconference. -- due 2015-02-24 -- CLOSED
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1515
<clown> action-1515?
<trackbot> action-1515 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Discuss issue-678 at the mon aria teleconference. -- due 2015-02-24 -- CLOSED
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1515
JS: I'm blocked on this until that action is done.
<clown> action-144?
<trackbot> action-144 -- Michael Cooper to Research precedent in other W3C specs for how "should" statements affect CR testing and exit requirements -- due 2010-01-15 -- CLOSED
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/144
<clown> action-1444?
<trackbot> action-1444 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Update atk/at-spi2 mapping for role presentation in tables and lists. -- due 2015-02-24 -- CLOSED
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1444
JD: I don't know why you're blocked on it.
RS: I thought we did this
already.
... We had a whole discussion on the generic containers during
one of our calls here.
JS: I don't recall this.
RS: What I recall, they were
going to call the generic container role a group no matter what
on IE.
... For MSAA and IA2, that was going to be a group as
well.
... I don't recall what we're doing for the Mac.
... But I'd think it would be AXGroup.
... And I thought ATK/AT-SPI2 was always going to be PANEL
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#presentation
JS: The above URL is for role
presentation.
... (Reads clause for ATK)
... We have similar wording for UIA.
... I could put in similar wording for MSAA and IA2.
... I will need input for Apple.
... Ok, I'm unstuck. I will make the edits.
<clown> action-1373?
<trackbot> action-1373 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a test case for when aria-posinset and aria-setsize are provided explicitly on some but not all elements. -- due 2015-08-15 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1373
JS: Cynthia moved this ahead to
August 15th.
... This is more important because the action is to create a
test case.
... I think we say in the spec that the browser will figure it
out.
... What should happen?
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaPosinset
RS: Honestly, I don't know if the browser is going to figure it out.
JS: (Reads from spec for above URL)
RS: But if they put a posinset
and setsize on items 2 and 4, but they say "5 of 8" and "7 of
8". You cannot get that from the DOM.
... I don't think we should expect the user agents to figure
this out.
JS: The statement could mean "if
not provided at all," that would make more sense to me.
... But it doesn't say what to do if the author puts some in
but not all.
RS: I don't think we should worry about it. I think it's an error condition.
<clown> action-1608?
<trackbot> action-1608 -- Cynthia Shelly to Bring up issue-708 with the html-a11y taskforce. -- due 2015-06-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1608
JS: She changed the due date to the end of June.
issue-708
<trackbot> issue-708 -- The phrase "If not already excluded from the accessibility tree per the rules above" implies that the listed conditions do not override. Is that correct? -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/708
JS: I didn't make any notes
here.
... I will keep this one on our radar.
<clown> action-1623?
<trackbot> action-1623 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Confirm with James Craig that the proper AXAPI mapping of aria-placeholder is AXPlaceholderValue. -- due 2015-04-28 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1623
JS: James confirmed the mapping
for aria-placeholder.
... So I can close this action.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/morning rushhour/Morning Rush Hour/ Succeeded: s/activedescent/activedescendant/ Succeeded: s/The mappings/The UIA mappings/ Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer Joanmarie_Diggs Bryan_Garaventa Rich Regrets: Cynthia_Shelly Found Date: 09 Jun 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/06/09-aapi-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]