See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 26 May 2015
<dbooth> Scribe: Marc_Twagirumukiza
<dbooth> http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=File:FHIR_RDF_Sample_side_by_side_comparisons.pdf
Tony: We had been working on this
also in small group
... there are line number which can help in the document
... section 2.1 (see L25-28)
... saw that the github version changed
... I had originally done this, the value has no specific
domain
... FHIR primitives
<Rafael> Rafael here
<dbooth> dbooth: Line 25 .coding is supposed to be a predicate URI TBD?
Tony: section 1.2 and
sub-section
... The original github was wrong... it has been corrected
ericP: That means the algorythm was wrong?
Tony: section 1.2.2 shows
it
... the FHIR sting has a value which is a FHIR primitive
<dbooth> Tony: coding.code.value needs to be an object property, not a datatype property, for extensibility -- to allow other properties to be attached.
Tony: section 2 line 79
... and following
... there is a problem of blank nodes, some inferences work
some others not
... this the first step L130
Lloyd: can you explain more--- don't understand well
Tony: L115 un-labelled blank node and L130 labelled blank node
Lloyd: I can have 2 different codings
Tony: they can have different declarations
<dbooth> Tony: the same singleton URI can have different declarations in different places
dbooth: It would help if we differentiate things here
ericP: if we have a single term and we need to have extension we would not go to the single term
<dbooth> eric: If we attach extra properties to a singleton URI at all, we're saying that they are true everywhere. We'll instead want a node that is *related* to that singleton, so that we can attached extensions to that intermediate node.
<dbooth> lloyd: We can have 5,000 instances, each referring to the same code, but each one must independent.
<dbooth> tony: why?
Lloyd: ech term has to be completery different from each other
Tony: why they need to be separated?
Lloyd: I think I agree with you
<dbooth> lloyd: why do we need a singleton at all? why not have a class?
<dbooth> ... we could have an inference rule that sees that class.
Tony: L131
... blank node could be a unique URI
<ericP> http://piratepad.net/hcls2
Tony: the nice thing here the
label is attached to the name of the class and the label is
propagated to the instances
... in SNOMED f.eg is attached to the Class
If you change the name of L135 the label will go
Tony: If you don't declare the individual,.... I dont think you can infer the label
Lloyd: we need to investigate what cause this
<dbooth> dbooth: Would help to separate out the question of punning. It's a convenience that can be used, but doesn't do anything you could not do with separate URIs.
Tony: property chain seems to work with the reasoner
dbooth: ... named individuals Vs
blank node
... we have to figure out if we need unique IRI
correct not IRI but URI
dbooth: How are we going to proceed?
ericP: we need to figure out if we need to something there
dbooth: we need exemples
<ericP> example of blank nodeode differentiation
Tony: Lets' use the exemples we
have there
... We can start with an assumption that the blank node
works
ericP: Using the exemples I had before
<dbooth> ACTION: David to ask Michel Dumontier about blank node inference problem [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/05/26-hcls-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> 'David' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., dbooth, dderour, dhansen2, dnewman, dshotton, dwild).
dbooth: to create an action
Tony: I don't see the direction,
I would take it back to blank node
... Concept Binding Internal-- Section 3
dbooth: I don't see the class at
L294
... I was expecting allergy confirmed there L294
Tony: see line 300 is there
... there is a Class
Lloyd: L299 has to be URI
Tony: am in favour not to use the reasoner for that, it's not scalable
-
<dbooth> Scribe: dbooth
eric: tony wants a single pass; lloyd wants a clear def of what the RDF is. We could say that the transformation does two things.
lloyd: My understanding of the requirements is that we will not inject any information other than what is in the instance data. Nothing else can use it in round tripping.
tony: It's part of the valueset definition.
lloyd: valueset definitions don't
give you URLs for SNOMED concepts.
... There are no SNOMED concept URIs in the def.
... When you convert FHIR XML to RDF, you cannot introduce the
SNOMED URIs.
... Cannot add info except what's in the metadata that is part
of the resource definition.
... The resource defn knows cardinality, etc. but not about
SNOMED URIs.
... Therefore the SNOMED URIs cannot be a part of the round
tripping process.
... But it *can* be introduced later by an ontology, by SPARQL
rules, by many other ways.
... The reference transformations between FHIR XML and FHIR RDF
can only use the FHIR XML instance data and resource
definitions, but nothing else.
... We might make an exception for FHIR-maintained code
systems, but cannot do it with anything else, because there are
so many of them and they're always changing.
tony: No standard way to form vocab URIs from the combination of Coding.system URI and Coding.code .
ADJOURNED
<ericP> http://piratepad.net/hcls2
s|s/BN/blank node/g||
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/I had/Tony: I had/ Succeeded: s/BN/bnodes/ Succeeded: s/BN/bnode/g FAILED: s|s/BN/bnode/g|| Succeeded: s/bnode/blank node/g Found Scribe: Marc_Twagirumukiza Inferring ScribeNick: Marc_Twagirumukiza Found Scribe: dbooth Inferring ScribeNick: dbooth Scribes: Marc_Twagirumukiza, dbooth ScribeNicks: Marc_Twagirumukiza, dbooth WARNING: Dash separator lines found. If you intended them to mark the start of a new topic, you need the -dashTopics option. For example: <Philippe> --- <Philippe> Review of Action Items Default Present: DBooth, ericP, +1.801.949.aaaa, rhausam, lloyd, +1.978.794.aabb, Tony, Marc_Twagirumukiza, Rafael, [IPcaller] Present: David_Booth EricP Rob_Hausam Lloyd_McKenzie Tony_Mallia Rafael_Richards Marc_Twagirumukiza Found Date: 26 May 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/05/26-hcls-minutes.html People with action items: david[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]