<shepazu> https://join.me/ocupopscreen

<scribe> scribenick: koalie

Presentation

Doug: We had some ideas, learned good and bad lessons from the HTML5 logo
... pretty successful
... we didn't have the stakeholders at the start
... that's a downside
... so we wanted to get you involved early on
... Assets around the release; webpage, how to use
... we want to do that again this time
... we had a gallery "send us how you use it" but that didn't work so well
... we'll make a little video
... about what went into the process
... a shorter version of the presentation you are about to see
... in terms of timing of release:
... I don't know if there is a CSS milestone, anything relevant
... I invite you to suggest things
... failing that, I'd like to reveal that at the W3C W3Conf in July
... it will be live-streamed
... it would be great if said milestone could be met at this time

[Lea arrives]

Doug: reminder:
... we want a chance to refine this
... and to present it to the world in one sweep of the hand
... so please, keep this under embargo
... Leaks would spoil the majesty of the thing

[Michael proceeds with https://join.me/ocupopscreen ]

Michael: I'm going to enlist your help on strategy
... how to make it accepted universally, and how to make it evolve
... we want the same enthusiasm around the HTML5 logo which people could remix
... I'm hear to propose solution
... what best communicates CSS
... Keywords about CSS
... CSS == creativity, execution on the Web
... It's evolving, it has improved, it's modular, etc.
... it's a foundation on which powerful tools are being built
... Moving from words to images...
... in logo design we aim for instant reaction to it and understanding of it
... one way is to leverage concept words
... We produced a hundred sketches
... moving on to solutions
... here are the ideas that didn't make the cut
... We wanted to convey the reality of CSS
... we played on promises of functionalities, the shape of CSS code might be,
... layers, modularity
... we played with how to incorporate those
... We wanted to highlight the sophistication of CSS
... Also we wanted it to work well in colour and in single-colour
... Early on, we wanted something more stylish than the HTML5 logo
... This is a C and S, it looks like an ampersand
... but you don't see the meaning right away
... other ideas on CSS monogram in the shape of cascading water
... more shapes
... But all those didn't convey the power, depth, duality of styling of CSS
... we played then with 6-edge shapes
... and angular CSS monogram
... We went from hard cross-roads to breaks in the line weight
... to give a sense of how the lines are weaving into each other
... This is in one-colour
... back to the hexagon shape
... we came up with a cube in shades of blue
... it fits well side by side with the HTML5 logo
... Welcoming questions, focusing on what and why, less about how
... which is our job

Feedback

Doug: Michael showed me an early version
... We wanted to be able to leverage characteritics of CSS in the logo itself, for example hover effect or drop shadow

<dsinger> it would be cool to animate-assemble it, etc. too

Doug: and have a way to simplify the complex shape in small size
... would that work?

Michael: We wanted the build it with CSS
... We wanted it animated
... Doug can share a link
... as far as sizing goes, this is why we wanted the unique container
... without the monogran, we have the cube; a box
... it can play that role

<dsinger> Am concerned about the number of lines, and that they are a bit ‘spindly’. Also wonder why the right two segments and bottom two are in different blues; it diminishes the ‘cube’ effect.

<Zakim> dsinger, you wanted to talk about lines and blues

dsinger++ for feeding the record with his comment

Michael: We added a diamond shape (the bottom of the cube)
... because we want the eye to see the monogram inside the cube

<dsinger> ah, you want ambiguity between cube and gem. ok

Michael: the cube is not visible at first

Doug: How would you feel about showing the version that I saw?

Michael: We could. We made adjustments to simplify things
... lighter line weight and addition @@ in the S
... we moved away from that to simplify further and make it more iconic

Lea: I really like how it looks
... both cube and diamond
... however it feels too frail
... it doesn't have the boldness of the HTML5 logo
... it feels a bit too complex for a logo

<dsinger> +1 to Lea

Lea: it might not contribute to a strong brand

Michael: It has far less negative space than the HTML5 logo
... it is not fragile since it is in a container

<dsinger> would like to see it with the C heavier (and possibly then the C only can stay in small sizes?)

Michael: when presented next to HTML5 logo, there is a notion of yin and yang
... weight could be refined
... point taken
... as far as brand, I think people will love to draw it
... geometric pattern
... I've been sketching it a lot; it's fun to draw
... so, point well taken; we can make it more powerful
... but not straw too far away

Lea: Making is a bit simpler would help
... the first thought I have is: complex

<dsinger> I think it’s a fine balance between ‘elegant’ and ‘fragile’ or ‘spindly’.

<dsinger> ‘Complex’ is not usually a compliment.

Lea: CSS is complex, but I'm not sure it would be good if the logo contributed to reinforcing the idea that CSS is complex

Michael: It should not be intimidating
... we should aim at communicating it better

Lea: a small version would not be distinguishible
... what's inside is the thing
... hexagon has been done many times

Michael: Drawing the HTML5 logo analogy, you can't own the shape
... the HTML5 logo was adopted because it was shared
... There's a mark; the monogram, and the container
... You will be able to leverage itself
... the monogram itself doesn't need to be there at 16 px

Doug: Both points well taken
... In the inner cube of the previous version, at the small icon size, you'd still be able to see the C inside
... Maybe we can play with the idea of merging

Michael: Yes
... and that might address the issue Lea raised
... and how to make it extensible as much as possible

Doug: Is there anybody else who can give immediate impression

Coralie: David and I both realised there was a cube when you mentioned it; we had seen the diamond
... I like it, this blew my mind and was representative of duality

Michael: Having adaptable shape allows modularity

David: I wonder if we could make the C a little heavier
... that would remain in a smaller version
... on the cube/gem ambiguity, only one side has lighter colour
... it looks like we're looking at the inside of the cube
... could we try to @@?

Michael: Yes

<leaverou> can we have this pdf to look at later in case we have more comments/suggestions later?

Michael: And Doug, the cube within a cube, we had a C-letter form

<alex_antennahouse> I think the outer S feels "wobbly", but the inner S is really good

Doug: Comparing with older version, I like the spacing and the letter forms
... there is an arabic quality to them

<dsinger> agree, I like the international nature of it. rather calligraphic

Doug: maze-like, crystalin, pathways but also ... arabic, beautiful script. I like that refinement.
... spindiness is thus decreased

<dsinger> realizes he forgot to say anything +ve, there is a lot to like here!!

Michael: yes, we liked that it looked like it had been done with a calligraphic pen
... to the point of complexity, it has a number of twists and turns,
... they are repetitive
... allow modularity
... this is weighing in
... I appreciate the useful feedback

Doug: Can you show something next week?

Michael: yes

Doug: Can I distribute slides?

Michael: yes with the caveat that I want to inform this process with what we learned with the HTML5 logo
... big splash as it arrived without warning contributing to its success

<dsinger> realizes it looks more like a Knot Garden than a Maze <https://www.pinterest.com/mgwv/knot-gardens/>

Michael: caveat: let's not share with the community; it's not as inclusive, which is why we here now, but please, let's keep it close to the vest

<dsinger> thinks we should find an arabic calligrapher to comment on how they would write it

Michael: especially as we're continuing to refine it.

Doug: Michael/ocupop are doing this pro bono, by the way
... I'd like for us to be comfortable. let's try to strike a balance between how decisive we can be about this process
... I'll be in touch with everybody about next steps
... Any open questions?

[nope]

Doug: thanks everybody for showing up
... we'll schedule another round, hoping more people join

<dsinger> I already like it better than the HTML5 logo :-)

Michael: We don't care if you like it. Ultimately, what we care about is if it's effective.
... I want people to be excited about

[thanks all]

Michael_Nieling, I like it a lot, well done