<trackbot> Date: 26 March 2015

<asurkov> hey, clown

<janina> My whole building was vibrating yesterday. Jack hammers on the roof

<scribe> scribe: fesch

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Mar/0132.html

<richardschwerdtfeger> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/tables/aria/aria.html#aria-colcount

New table branch\

rs: we need table

mc: Joanie may not have added it because she had questions

jn: rowcount and colcount need a value

rs: if you don't provide them the user agent calculates them

jn: if you didn't have it, it would mean unknown, now we just calculated
... the use case is all the data has not been fetched from the database so you don't know how many rows and columns we have

rs: I wasn't going to require user agents to calculate it

<clown> aria-rowount="indeterminate" ? aria-rowcount="-1"

jn: it is unknown, because the fetch is incomplete
... need to be able to support, when the rowindex is known and the rowcount is unknown

rs: just don't want to leave out a use case
... need a negative value - if negative it is undefined

jc: what if the attribute is not defined

jn: what if we use 0 as unknown

fe: isn't 0 a valid return from a query

jc: would rather not use a negative number
... often see a caption at the bottom of the table which tells you the count
... do we need to have it in the API?

jn: isn't is confusing if you get a row of greater than the row count?
... can live with an unknown result set

jc: why not undefined or don't set the attribute

jn: currently defined as - if you don't add rowcount a user agent will calculate it

mc: what about the attribute with a "" (empty string)

<clown> aria-colcount=""

jc: seems less discoverable than -1 or 0

rs: we need to give directions on whether the user agent calculates it or not
... may want to indicate that it is currently indeterminate and don't calculate it, and if missing let user agent calculates it
... use -1 to say it is undefined and not to be calculated, JN for both rowcount and colcount?

jn: yes

<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Joanie modify aria-rowcount, aria-colcount, and aria-setsize such that a value=“-1” dictates that the browser does not calculate it, if these values are missing calculate them [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-aria-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1606 - Modify aria-rowcount, aria-colcount, and aria-setsize such that a value=“-1” dictates that the browser does not calculate it, if these values are missing calculate them [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2015-04-02].

rs: any other issues with that other than table?
... did Joanie also add these to grid and treegrid?

clown: on grid and treegrid...

<clown> action-1395?

<trackbot> action-1395 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Add table role to taxonomy and aria 1.1 spec. -- due 2015-02-12 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1395

jc: if you make the first working example, can you make it visible?

jn: doubt I can make full stuff publicly available..., may make simple examples

<clown> action-1488?

<trackbot> action-1488 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose spec text for allowing aria-setsize="999+" format change for issue-397 -- due 2014-10-29 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1488

clown: 1488 action about at least.... number of rows, columns

<clown> aciton-1606?

rs: want to triage remaining defects

outstanding defects

<clown> action-1361?

<trackbot> action-1361 -- James Nurthen to Suggest new text for the application role -- due 2015-03-19 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1361

<clown> action-1363?

<trackbot> action-1363 -- James Craig to Patch issue-603: aria-startsmedia -- due 2015-03-12 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1363

issue-603?

<trackbot> issue-603 -- Need an attr to indicate element activation triggers audio, video, etc. -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/603

action-1379?

<trackbot> action-1379 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to TAC should cover rendered descendants from external sources: svg, iframe, etc. (Compose text and get final review form ARIA subteam) -- due 2015-02-13 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1379

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1380

<clown> action-1380?

<trackbot> action-1380 -- James Craig to #presentation should mention aria-hidden vs presentation role on raster and vector images in relation to ACTION-1379 -- due 2015-02-13 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1380

action-1320?

<trackbot> action-1320 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Consider mapping the "offscreen" api properties in the situation of aria-hidden="false" on non-rendered elements. -- due 2015-04-28 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1320

action-1383

<trackbot> action-1383 -- James Craig to Add role none to spec and write text in role="presentation" to state how will be phasing out. -- due 2015-02-24 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1383

issue-526?

<trackbot> issue-526 -- Allow non-global states and properties to be used without an explicit ARIA role, when the element has an implict ARIA semantic corresponding to an appropriate role - ARIA 1.1 -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/526

<clown> action-1405?

<trackbot> action-1405 -- James Craig to For issue-526 modify spec. to allow non-global attrs to apply to host language elements having the correct aria semantics -- due 2015-01-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1405

action-1456?

<trackbot> action-1456 -- Christopher Gallello to Provide defintions in action 1454 for each of the annotation types -- due 2014-06-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1456

rs: he provided defs, need to get into spec, will assign getting into spec to Joanie

jc: may be overlap with DPUB module

rs: will take care of it, working on DPUB

<clown> action-1462

<trackbot> action-1462 -- Cynthia Shelly to Discuss computed role with ie team -- due 2014-12-09 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1462

<clown> issue-427?

<trackbot> issue-427 -- Need a way for application to find out what role has been applied to or computed for an element -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/427

rs: didn't we give action to webapps folks to put it in

jc: plans to put in css as well

cs: : discussion mostly about testing

jc: with testing write one scenario and work in any browser

cs: my CSUN talk discussed that, can demo on a call

rs and jc would like to see demo

jc: maybe do through skype,

rs: would like to see as well

cs: will happy to demo in a couple of weeks
... in our list of features we are thinking about
... whole set of overlapping roles, which we need to look at whole picture, need face to face or long meeting with video

<clown> action-1471?

<trackbot> action-1471 -- Jon Gunderson to Start list of requirements for aria 1.1 -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1471

action-1473

<trackbot> action-1473 -- Cynthia Shelly to Prepare recommendation on automation of tracking of bugs filed with various implementers -- due 2014-10-30 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1473

rs: from 1.0 moved to 1.1...

cs: anyone else want to do this? don't have lots of time... bug tracking at Moz and Google pretty good too

rs: don't have a place to track bugs filed against browsers
... could put on wiki...

jc: don't like another list, it will be out of date immediately

cs: can provide a public query to bugs for accessibility

jc: webkit bugs are public too

<jcraig> https://bugs.webkit.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&op_sys=Unspecified&op_sys=All&op_sys=iOS+5.0&op_sys=iOS+5.1&op_sys=iOS+6.0&op_sys=iOS+6.1&op_sys=iOS+7.0&op_sys=Mac+OS+X+10.3&op_sys=Mac+OS+X+10.4&op_sys=Mac+OS+X+[CUT]

<jcraig> _sys=Mac+OS+X+10.6&op_sys=Mac+OS+X+10.7&op_sys=Mac+OS+X+10.8&op_sys=Mac+OS+X+10.9&op_sys=Windows+2000&op_sys=Windows+XP&op_sys=Windows+Server+2003&op_sys=Windows+Vista&op_sys=Windows+7&op_sys=Windows+8&op_sys=S60+3rd+edition&op_sys=Android&op_sys=Other&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=component&type0-0-0=substr[CUT]

<jcraig> e0-0-0=Accessibility&field0-0-1=noop&type0-0-1=noop&value0-0-1=

<clown> action-1475?

<trackbot> action-1475 -- Cynthia Shelly to Work with michael c. and joseph s. to create up to 4 accessibility diagrams showing the application (before and after) of applying role=“presentation”/none -- due 2014-10-28 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1475

cs: still have photos of napkin drawings from CSUN....

clown: depends on generic containers
... group, panel - the whole generic containers...

<clown> action-1493?

<trackbot> action-1493 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose spec text allowing ¨implicit value for role¨ to provide default values for required properties -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493

<clown> action-1489>

<trackbot> action-1489 -- Michael Cooper to Propose spec text to limit what aria attributes can be overridden by strong native semantics (e.g., aria-label and aria-labelledby) -- due 2014-10-13 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1489

<clown> action-1490?

<trackbot> action-1490 -- James Nurthen to Propose spec text edit for issue-610: comboboxes should allow complex children elements -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1490

<clown> issue-610?

<trackbot> issue-610 -- Comboboxes should allow complex children elements -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/610

jn: banter...

action-1493

<trackbot> action-1493 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose spec text allowing ¨implicit value for role¨ to provide default values for required properties -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493

issue-646

<trackbot> issue-646 -- Since some required attrs have default values, we may need to revisit one sentence in #state_property_processing -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/646

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-1493/aria/aria.html#state_property_processing

clown: 4th paragraph onward is the proposed text
... reads paragraph - is my proposed text
... in HTML 5, if the min is missing assume 0, if max missing assume 100
... we could use that in value-min, value-max and value-now sections

<clown> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/semantics.html#range-state-%28type=range%29

<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Joanie modify aria-valuenow, aria-valuemax, aria-valuemin to reflect the default values used in HTML5 for the range control [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-aria-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1607 - Modify aria-valuenow, aria-valuemax, aria-valuemin to reflect the default values used in html5 for the range control [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2015-04-02].

clown: it is not in one place anymore
... give me time to figure it out and I will add it to the action

rs: clown will create a proposal for Joanie

<janina> Bye!

<richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus

<richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Rich

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140  of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: fesch
Inferring ScribeNick: fesch
Default Present: Janina, fesch, LJWatson, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Jon_Gunderson, James_Nurthen, Bryan_Garaventa, Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, James_Craig
Present: Janina fesch LJWatson Joseph_Scheuhammer Jon_Gunderson James_Nurthen Bryan_Garaventa Cooper Rich_Schwerdtfeger James_Craig
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Mar/0175.html
Found Date: 26 Mar 2015
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-aria-minutes.html
People with action items: aria-valuemax aria-valuemin aria-valuenow joanie modify

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.