W3C

- DRAFT -

Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

27 Jan 2015

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
EricE, Michael, Kathy_Wahlbin, AWK, Kenny, Marc_Johlic, DavidMacD, Loretta, Katie_Haritos-Shea, James_Nurthen
Regrets
Chair
Josh
Scribe
David

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 27 January 2015

<Kenny> botie, inform Joshue I have kicked start trackbot, and setup agenda

<botie> will do

<Joshue108> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 27 January 2015

<Joshue108> Chair: AWK

<yatil> botie, Joshue108 is Joshue

<botie> OK, yatil.

<Kenny> zakimm, call kenny-mobile

<scribe> Scribe: David

Charter update - members to contact AC reps

AC reps will contact need to vote... we need 5% of votes of AC reps to successfully. So everyone should lobby your rep

Scrub of actions <https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/open >

continuing review Images Tutorial, Tables Tutorial,Tutorials cover page: <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/TutorialsCIT/>

Eric: We made it through the forms
... I've tried to implement changes identified in meeting and we bring them back. Have made a wiki to EO to review. Do not expect it to be a formal review b ut will look over changes and give feedback

<AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/TutorialsCIT/results

Andrew: Let's look at image

<AWK> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/

<Joshue108> +1 to not saying that its not recommended

Andrew and David, cathy and mark: wary to say that role="presentation" is not ok, so it should stay

Josh +1 sith others

<Ryladog> +1

Note: If the text included an explanation of how the dog wears a bell, the image might be considered redundant and therefore decorative. As this isn’t mentioned in the text, the image is deemed to be informative.

http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/informative/

<yatil> Direct link to the text: http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/informative/#images-used-to-supplement-other-information

<yatil> Last paragraph.

Loretta: long standing discussion, don't want to block discussion

Cathy: Usability studies, i didn't have a problem with ... whenever I have had participants, they like short alt text, depends on the type of site agree with david that it is not well defined

educational context different from banking site

Andrew: long standing debate, judgement that authors make, judgement that they are responsible for....

David: if author decides then where is the testability requirement of critical mass of knowledgeable

Katie: Gregg would say 8/10

Loretta: seems there is not agreement among knowledgeable people, we agree in a range, but not clear where to draw the line
... my personal opinion is give people the benefit of the doubt if it looks like they thought about it.

<AWK> David: Like Steve F's document on writing alt text, part of the HTML5 spec

David: I have some concern of authors being the judge

Michael: I think we should honour the authors opinions

<AWK> look here: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/TutorialsCIT/results

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/TutorialsCIT/results

Kathy: Lots of research in Math, and Mathjax has limitations

Andrew: Maybe link to Mathjax

<scribe> ACTION: David to suggest text disclaimer for Math section. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/27-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-305 - Suggest text disclaimer for math section. [on David MacDonald - due 2015-02-03].

can someone drop in the link to math tutorial?

<AWK> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/groups/

<AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/TutorialsCIT/results

Image maps: may not work on all images... we should caution regarding accessibility of images

Kathy: there have been limitations on mobile... it doesn't work for image maps, but mobile is changing quickly

Eric: I've looked at the comments, in this case this creates a conflict for mobile,

Andrew: There is concern that not enough mention of aria, no links to aria taechniques

Cathy: I think we could add aria, haven't gone through whole tutorial so don't know if examples there

Mark: would at least like to see the links to aria techniques

James: the example in image map not complete, no information about the relationships in the org chart.
... just has names and roles and not relationships of people in org chart... there are lines...

<Kathy> +1

James: Reports to chairman, type of addition to the alt

Eric: that's fine

James: I do them as trees for the alt, rather than alt text

Eric: images so basic that using aria seems not well called for

James: under trips and tricks, SVG section aria label or labelledby, I advise both for SVG

Andrew: decorative images, role="presentation"

<jamesn> (both aria-label or labelledby AND title element)

<Ryladog> +1

James: both aria-label or labelledby AND title element on SVG

Mark: aria15 describedby should be there

<Ryladog> include but not as the first or most promonent technique

Eric: I'll add aria in SVG, complex, decorative
... will add link to tutorial

in the presentation images section

<Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/complex/

Kathy: In code snipit approach 1 won't currently work on mobile http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/complex/

<yatil> Direct link to the note: http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/complex/##Both+Firefox+and+Chrome

<Kathy> Note: Both Firefox and Chrome browsers are working on implementations that will make the longdesc linked long description location reachable by all users. On mobile, longdesc is currently not supported. Currently, and in other browsers, it’s only available to screen reader users.

RESOLUTION: approves conditional publication of image tutorial, provided that there are not major EO changes to image section.

<AWK> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/tables/

Table Tutorial

<AWK> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/tables/

<yatil> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/TutorialsCIT/results#xtables

sometimes caption not appropriate, aria labelledby can solve

http://davidmacd.com/test/details.html here are my tests

James: I suggest summary even though it makes the validator in html5 complain...

<yatil_> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/tables/multi-directional/#table-with-header-cells-in-one-column-only

David: Add heading above a table

<yatil_> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/tables/

<yatil_> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/tables/##such+as+PDF

+1

<Kathy> +1

<yatil_> +1 to remove "such as PDF"

<Loretta> remove "may"

<Ryladog> +1

<Joshue108> remove may +1

<yatil_> OK.

Andrew: "ome document formats other than HTML, such as PDF, may provide similar mechanisms to markup table structures." don't want to say "may"

<marcjohlic> +1 to removing "may" also

<jnurthen> +1 to remove may

because it does...

Andrew: out of time so can't talk about multi directional

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: David to suggest text disclaimer for Math section. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/27-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]
 
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Default Present: EricE, Michael, Kathy_Wahlbin, AWK, Kenny, Marc_Johlic, DavidMacD, Loretta, Katie_Haritos-Shea, James_Nurthen
Present: EricE Michael Kathy_Wahlbin AWK Kenny Marc_Johlic DavidMacD Loretta Katie_Haritos-Shea James_Nurthen
Found Date: 27 Jan 2015
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/01/27-wai-wcag-minutes.html
People with action items: david

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