See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 27 November 2014
nigel: Plan for TTML2 publication
timeline has been discussed. Proposal is as follows:
... W/c 4th Jan 2015: Publish FPWD
... Thu 29th Jan 2015: any additions/edits deferred from FPWD
to have been completed or deferred until v.next
... Tue 17th Feb 2015: Publish updated WD 'feature
complete'
... Tue 17th-Fri 20th Feb inclusive: Chair to send Wide Review
requests to internal and external groups
... Fri 3rd March: WD review period to end
... After this, process comments, agree CR exit criteria,
request transition to CR
... It would be good for anyone who may be aware of potential
liaison partners who have meetings during or near
... the review period to highlight those so we can be as
inclusive as possible.
<scribe> scribeNick: nigel
nigel: I have made the request,
we have a meeting planned with the Director on Wednesday 3rd
Dec
... The Disposition of Comments is looking good:
https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/34314/WD-ttml-imsc1-20140930/doc/
... The edited CR incorporates the exit criteria that we agreed
at TPAC.
action-351?
<trackbot> action-351 -- Thierry Michel to Draft transition request for IMSC 1 for cr -- due 2014-11-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/351
close action-351
<trackbot> Closed action-351.
action-352?
<trackbot> action-352 -- Thierry Michel to Organise a meeting with plh, nigel, the director and the editor of imsc 1 -- due 2014-11-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/352
close action-352
<trackbot> Closed action-352.
action-353?
<trackbot> action-353 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Update imsc 1 ed for cr with exit criteria wording -- due 2014-11-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/353
close action-353
<trackbot> Closed action-353.
action-333?
<trackbot> action-333 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Create a one pager to cover the plan for the director's meeting for taking imsc1 to cr. -- due 2014-11-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/333
action-332?
<trackbot> action-332 -- Glenn Adams to Add schema support for ISD vocabulary -- due 2014-10-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/332
group: no further progress on actions
issue-357?
<trackbot> issue-357 -- Add support for horizontal in vertical (tate-chu-yoko). -- raised
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/357
issue-229?
<trackbot> issue-229 -- Mixed vertical-horizontal progression direction -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/229
<scribe> ACTION: glenn resolve duplication between issue-357 and issue-229 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/27-tt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-355 - Resolve duplication between issue-357 and issue-229 [on Glenn Adams - due 2014-12-04].
issue-354?
<trackbot> issue-354 -- Add support for letter spacing style semantics -- closed
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/354
glenn: I closed this as a duplicate of issue-236 after last week's meeting
issue-10?
<trackbot> issue-10 -- Allowing pointers to pre-rendered audio forms of elements -- pending review
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/10
glenn: Most of these pending review issues are resolved in the recent edits to TTML2
nigel: These changes are very recent and there are lots of them so we should give a decent chance for folk to review them
<scribe> ACTION: nigel Request review of TTML2 pending review issues from group [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/27-tt-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-356 - Request review of ttml2 pending review issues from group [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-12-04].
issue-22?
<trackbot> issue-22 -- window fade in/out not supported? -- pending review
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22
glenn: This has been addressed
since August 2013.
... Now that we have the animate element we have continuous
support for fade in/out
close issue-22
<trackbot> Closed issue-22.
glenn: A large class of the
currently pending review issues are metadata related. I added
support for enumerated
... named metadata items, which cover 12 of those issues at
least, and target bar data, aspect ratio, target format, active
format descriptor.
... Forced display (issue-230) is addressed with the condition
attribute and the parameter function that allows
... parameters defined in the document processing context to be
queried.
... The new font element covers issue-273.
... The binary data tunnelling from issue-287 is covered by the
data element.
pal: Here's a use case: I create
a document using a number of audio/font/image resources and I'd
like to author it once
... and allow the distribution across many different platforms.
Some of them will embed the resource in a multiplex,
... e.g. in an ISOBMFF or MXF multiplex. Others will require
the processor to retrieve the resource over the internet.
So
... how do I craft the document so I don't have to reauthor it
dependent on platform? Is there a level of indirection to
... allow resolution of location?
glenn: Yes, there is indirection at a couple of levels. The main level is through the use of the source element child of
<glenn> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml2/spec/ttml2.html#embedded-content-vocabulary-font
glenn: embedded content elements
such as image, font or audio. For example let's look at font
(URL above)
... There's an example with a font element inside the resources
element, with two children, an external resource URL and
... an internal data element with an inline definition. By
using multiple sources the semantics of source, which I need
to
... elaborate a bit more, lets you walk down the list of
sources and resolve the first one that can be resolved.
... That's one form of indirection.
pal: For font, there's a unique reference back to the fontFamily. What would it be for an image or audio?
glenn: The only reason for a
reference to font, which is in fact not required, and if not
specified will use the name of the
... family in the font that it resolves to. However if you want
3 different sources with different family names A, B and C
then
... that would present a problem for how you refer to the font
in each family. So you'd write in a label with a new
family,
... then the referenced resource would be treated as having the
e.g. "myFont" family. And you'd refer to that family name
... in the style as "myFont". I have some further editorial
work to do on the font selection semantics.
... In the case of image, we don't refer to images using a name
like a family name. There are two places where images
... can be referenced in the newest draft. Image can be a child
of a resources element or a div/p/span. Also the new
... backgroundImage style may refer to an image. In those cases
the reference mechanism is either by embedding the
... image directly inline in a div, p or span, or it could
refer to an image element as a child of the resources element,
or
... a source element to refer to an external image. There are
some examples under image which show an external
resource,
... a source child and in the third example an embedded case
where there are two sources, one is an external reference
... and the other is embedded, and the first resolvable one
should be used.
pal: How do I uniquely identify an image?
glenn: You'd put an xml:id on the
image element to refer to it. For example an image in the
resources element, like
... xml:id="myImage" then you'd refer to it later as
src="#myImage". In the second example I do something like
that.
... That's a fragment identifier.
pal: How would you refer to that
image in an actual div for example?
... (in the second example)
glenn: To display in a div as
content: it could be a background image or a content element.
If you put an image element
... in the content of a div that becomes a content image as
opposed to a background image. That works like the img
element
... in html. Whereas the background image is referenced using
the backgroundImage style property. The semantic
distinction
... between them is that background images should never be used
to represent content, that should only be done in a
content
... image. I know that's different than SMPTE-TT and so
forth.
pal: Sure, that's a different issue.
glenn: So let's say you want a
background image on a region instead of a colour.
... In the second example I should wrap the data element in
<head><resources> and show that the <image>
element
... is in a div to make that clearer.
<Zakim> nigel, you wanted to ask about nested items
nigel: I was wondering if the
item element should be able to contain 0 or more item elements
or alternatively PCDATA
... At the moment you can't structure the item data except as a
flat list.
glenn: I was contemplating that.
In EBU-TT there's translator, translator contact, editor and
editor contact, and one might
... want to group a contact closely with the translator or
editor. I could make it either 0..* item children OR
PCDATA.
atai: Why is this ttm:item element used instead of including the metadata directly as individual elements?
glenn: Why generic? Because I
view element proliferation as a very bad thing. I try to
minimise the introduction of new
... elements wherever possible unless there's an overriding
reason not to take the generic approach. One negative
approach
... is you can't use the schema mechanism to validate multiple
items that use different syntax.
nigel: In XSD 1.1 you can use assertions to do that.
glenn: Also in Relax next generation and RNC can do it.
atai: That's true, but not in XSD 1.0.
glenn: A generic approach needs
less spec modification for experimentation. You just have to
define a new name.
... I made the names either tokens or URIs so anyone could
define a new URI and the syntax of the value.
atai: So to extend the value list and use a different one do you have to prefix it with x- ?
glenn: You'd either use a URI or an x- prefix.
nigel: I wonder how long is reasonable as a timeline for closing the issues?
glenn: I'd say a week or so for preliminary review.
nigel: I'll target 11th December.
pal: Are we stable for the review?
glenn: I'd call it a preliminary review of the editor's draft, so anything could still change!
pal: So far I've done cursory review. My plan is to do a thorough review once we've "frozen" it for FPWD.
glenn: The key here is to be able
to close out the issues so that I know when the task list is
complete.
... We can always reopen an issue if it's not handled
adequately. I'd prefer to be aggressive in closing issues and
reopening
... or opening new issues rather than leaving them handing as
Pending Review.
nigel: There isn't much time to review after the FPWD version is ready, but there is time between FPWD and next WD.
pal: The point is knowing when the document is stable enough to review.
glenn: My plan is to make a FPWD
that has all of the syntactic elements present, even if they
then change on further
... review.
pal: Can we have a 'stable for
publication of FPWD' date and give everyone a chance to review
that, address the comments
... and then publish the FPWD.
nigel: I can leave a pre-FPWD review period for the group during the first 2 weeks of January.
glenn: To get these issues moved
to closed is a different question. I'm fine with a week or two
of preliminary review
... before moving to Closed. If later on, on further review,
there are problems then issues can be opened or reopened.
pal: I think that makes sense especially before FPWD.
glenn: I've updated some of the
Change Proposals to Pending Review where all of their Issues
are Pending Review.
... We can move them to Closed when we've closed the issues in
a couple of weeks.
nigel: To summarise the TTML2
plan, I'll add a 2 week period at the beginning of January for
pre-FPWD review,
... and we'll target all the currently Pending Review issues
for closure on 11th December.
... Thanks everyone, see you next week. [Adjourns meeting]
action-356: Target 11th December for closure of pending review issues
<trackbot> Notes added to action-356 Request review of ttml2 pending review issues from group.