W3C

- DRAFT -

Forms Working Group Teleconference

12 Nov 2014

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Steven, pfennell, [IPcaller], ebruchez, Alain
Regrets
Chair
Steven
Scribe
Steven

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 12 November 2014

<ebruchez> can't seem to be able to join, Zakim keeps disconnecting me

Editorial meeting

http://www.w3.org/2014/10/31-forms-minutes.html

Steven: A successfull session. The issues I've split off as separate agenda items

includenamespaceprefixes

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Oct/0041.html

Steven: Opinions?

Erik: This is an attr on submission. XForms namespace is only relevant if the instance is inline
... the main problem is not that the namespace is kept around but that it is in scope
... there might even be 10 around still in scope, polluting the instance.
... XSLT has an exclude attr, which we added as an extension.
... both make sense in general.
... You want a clean data model

Steven: What do think of Alain's suggestion of a default includenamespaceprefixes=""

Erik: I wouldn't want it.
... the real problem is the extra namespaces that you don't want around.

Alain: Users can't understand why the extra namespaces are there. We shouldn't distinguiosh whether instances are inline or not

can someone else scribe?

My phone has died.

I'll rejoin

Steven: "If absent, all namespace nodes present in the instance data are considered for serialization"

https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_submission_Element_2

Erik: This is the XPath data model.
... there are namespaces in scope

Steven: In scope yes, but are they actually in the instance?

Erik: You can tackle it in two ways.
... filter out the non-useful ones, or exclude them altogether.
... If I have an external instance, which specifies namespaces, even if they are not used, when I serialise out, if we change submission then I will lose those

<alain> Sorry, I have to leave now...

Philip: Is "present" the same as "in scope"?

Steven: That's my question

https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_xforms-submit_Event

Steven: Look at the last example before that link. The two namespace nodes that have been serialised are not "in the instance data" by my reading, so I disagree with the example.

<ebruchez> 3.2.2 The instance Element

<ebruchez> "If the initial instance data is given by inline content, then instance data is obtained by first creating a detached copy of the inline content (including namespaces inherited from the enveloping ancestors)"

Steven: So the important words are "instance data" (not just "instance")
... so I agree that the namespace nodes are really there, and I agree with Alain that this is not very user friendly.

Erik: It is cleaner to say that the instance data is clean from the beginning, rather than having to clean it up later.
... and we should be able to roundtrip external instances

Steven: Absolutely agree. The problem is with all the extras that we get from the host language.

Erik: It comes down to an incompatible change somewhere.
... maybe 3.2 is the best place
... we can look at XSLT to see what

Steven: Within W3C it is understood that a number change (2.0) means expect incompatible changes

Erik: I think there are few cases where this would really make a difference.
... I don't have a problem with making the change on the instance element level.
... I would have a problem with changing it at the submission level.

<scribe> ACTION: Erik to investigate dealing with excess namespace nodes in section 3.2 the instance element [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/12-forms-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1986 - Investigate dealing with excess namespace nodes in section 3.2 the instance element [on Erik Bruchez - due 2014-11-19].

header/@name and @value

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Oct/0045.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Nov/0000.html

Steven: I added @name and @value to the header element
... you suggested that no header should be produced if there is no name
... seems good
... you also suggested that we should clarify the evaluation context.
... I agree

<scribe> ACTION: Steven to update header@name @value to include Erik's comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/12-forms-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1987 - Update header@name @value to include erik's comments [on Steven Pemberton - due 2014-11-19].

xf:email

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Nov/0002.html

Steven: What to do about email.
... we don't want to exclude any formats that may still be in use.

Erik: There seems to be a disparity with reality
... in our implementation we stopped using regexes
... there is code out there that validates email addresses.
... we actually use code to validate, not a datatype

Steven: Are you saying that you have to use code, and that regexps are not enough?

Erik: We found it easier to use someone else's code.

<ebruchez> https://github.com/apache/commons-validator/blob/trunk/src/main/java/org/apache/commons/validator/EmailValidator.java

Steven: So we have to reverse engineer this?

Erik: Not sure.

<ebruchez> steven@com

Steven: XForms should not exclude correct email addresses. I don't know if steven@com is right or not; we should exclude it if it is wrong, and allow it if it is OK.

<ebruchez> the other case is john@example.org/

<ebruchez> (ending with a "/")

Steven: This needs more research. Either our regexp is wrong, and then it should be excluded.

<scribe> ACTION: Steven to contact WAI about correct international email addresses [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/12-forms-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1988 - Contact wai about correct international email addresses [on Steven Pemberton - due 2014-11-19].

[ADJOURN]

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Erik to investigate dealing with excess namespace nodes in section 3.2 the instance element [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/12-forms-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Steven to contact WAI about correct international email addresses [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/12-forms-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Steven to update header@name @value to include Erik's comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/12-forms-minutes.html#action02]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.140 (CVS log)
$Date: 2014-11-12 17:00:04 $

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Succeeded: s/;/'/
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No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: Steven
Inferring Scribes: Steven
Default Present: Steven, pfennell, [IPcaller], ebruchez
Present: Steven pfennell [IPcaller] ebruchez Alain
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Nov/0003
Found Date: 12 Nov 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/12-forms-minutes.html
People with action items: erik steven

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