See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 04 November 2014
<clown> agenda: this
<joanie> scribenick: joanie
<clown> action-1409?
<trackbot> action-1409 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Monitor progress of bug against atk in gnome's bugzilla requesting new position, level, and other api be added (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453) -- due 2014-10-28 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1409
JD: The plan is that I will very
likely just port (more or less) the API that is in IA2 to ATK
and AT-SPI2.
... The API I'm talking about is
IAccessible2::groupPosition.
JS: There is a note in the action
where we said we'd move the due date out a month.
... You (Joanie) also said that you'd do an initial
implementation.
... So let's move it to the 25 November.
JD: Perfect.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html
JS: The above is the latest
document which I have more or less got done the Friday before
TPAC.
... I sent out an email about it.
<clown> action-1474?
<trackbot> action-1474 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Work with joseph s. and david b. to rewrite text alternative computation for both the aria spec. and the core accessibility api mappings specification. -- due 2014-10-30 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1474
action-1474
<trackbot> action-1474 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Work with joseph s. and david b. to rewrite text alternative computation for both the aria spec. and the core accessibility api mappings specification. -- due 2014-10-30 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1474
JS: I sent that email on the
31st.
... Steve noticed and started tweeting about it.
... I wasn't able to reach too many people, but I was able to
reach Rich.
... Did you all talk about it?
BG: I don't recall doing so.
JS: I didn't see it in the minutes.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#mapping_additional_nd_te
JS: Most important changes are in the above section.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html
RS: I need to integrate that in the SVG spec.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#mapping_additional_nd_te
RS: Is there a way to reference a given area in ReSpec?
JS: All I do is ../ -- it's just a relative URL.
<clown> ../accname-aam/accname-aam.html#mapping_addtional_nd-te
JS: Like that (the above)
<clown> the above assumes you are in the svg-aam directory.
JS: I know there's automatic linking for the glossary.
RS: We used to have a class to reference things like the name computation spec.
JS: The role references, state, etc. is something I wrote. I didn't write anything for the accessible name computation.
RS: There are places where we are
supposed to tie to each of these particular things.
... Where do we go to reference the host language
semantics?
... Like the title attribute.
JS: It's step 2D.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#mapping_additional_nd_te
JS: Go the above and then scroll to 2D.
RS and JS: (Each reading from documents in front of them)
<richardschwerdtfeger> Otherwise, if the current node's native markup provides an attribute or element that defines a text alternative, return that alternative as a flat string, unless the element is marked as presentational (role="presentation" or role="none").
<richardschwerdtfeger> Above wording taken from second note in ISSUE-522.
JS: So what you want is a way to refer to step 2D.
RS: Yes.
<richardschwerdtfeger> <a class="core-mapping" href="#role-map-none">
RS: So we have (the above). And
we should have one for name-mapping and then take the ID.
... So it expands to your (Joseph's) document.
JS: OK. Send me an email that outlines that.
<clown> action-1492?
<trackbot> action-1492 -- David Bolter to Investigate issue 671 and propose a solution that is clear for widgets -- due 2014-09-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1492
<clown> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/0081.html
JS: This is the crucial email in
which I outlined the solution.
... James Craig said fine for Apple.
... Marco replied saying that is what Firefox does now.
... I want confirmation from you (David).
... You expose invalid:true as a text attribute.
<clown> aria-level="it's matt fault"
<clown> aria-invalid="it's matt's fault".
JS: If aria-invalid is set to "it's matt's fault" it gets mapped in IA2 as state-invalid is set
<clown> Expose "invalid:true" as a text attribute.
JS: You lose "it's matt's fault" completely.
DB: I can confirm that's what we do. And that doesn't seem especially bad.
JS: Same thing happens on
ATK/AT-SPI2.
... I still need Cynthia's input.
DB: That seems fine for me.
<clown> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/0081.html
JS: Stefan wants more invalid
types, but that seems like something which belongs in the ARIA
spec.
... I don't take his comment to mean what we're proposing here
is incorrect.
... I just need Cynthia's input for the UIA mapping.
<clown> The mapping of aria-invalid="unknown value" for IA2 ...
RESOLUTION: The mapping of aria-invalid="unknown value" for IA2, ATK/AT-SPI2, and AX API are as stated in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/0081.html.
DB: I need to leave.
<clown> action-1515?
<trackbot> action-1515 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Discuss issue-678 at the mon aria teleconference. -- due 2014-10-07 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1515
JS: This action of yours is due.
<clown> issue-678?
<trackbot> issue-678 -- What is the ideal mapping for the aria group role, such that it does not semantically conflict with the generic group role on AAPIs, e.g., AXAPI and UIA. -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/678
JS: It's kind of a strange action since you wanted to take it up at the Monday call.
RS: The problem is that -- I
would put it on Monday's agenda.
... But we have actions from Cynthia.
... Currently in IE they make this (div) to a group role.
... We don't want to have groups all over the place.
<clown> current mapping: http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-group
RS: The other problem we have is
that we have a similar issue in SVG. If you put alt text on a
circle without any role, it defaults to a group role.
... I think we need to figure out what we want to call this
thing.
... I think div defaults to section in Gecko.
JS: Yes.
RS: Let's push this issue out a bit.
JS and RS: (Discuss date and agree upon 9 December)
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-group
JS: I noticed that the ATK/AT-SPI2 is role panel
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#group
<clown> scribenick: clown
JD: A div is not a group.
... We are going to have a problem with AAPI role section,
since there is a section role.
... A group is a container of widgets, so that maps to
PANEL.
... So, what FF is doing now is fine.
... It's all good right now.
... I heard doubts and questions in Rich's voice, and I wanted
to understand that.
RS: I want everyone to agree and
have interoperabiliity.
... Panel makes more sense, if it's a group of widgets.
... What doesn't make sense to have a div as a group (role
panel).
... I'm not sure what we did use for html5 <section>.
JD: Everywhere that is not ATK, a div is a group, and a group is a group, and you can't distinguish them.
RS: right.
... Also, <section> is mapped to region.
... But, a div is just a generic container.
... We need an agreement across all the browsers.
<joanie> https://developer.gnome.org/atk/unstable/AtkObject.html#AtkRole
JD: ATK doesn't have a role region.
RS: Yes, you do in object properties.
<laughter>
RS: Take a table for example. If
you have a grid, it's mapped to table, but also as
xml-roles:grid.
... That allows ATs to not steal keystrokes in the case of a
grid.
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#mapping_role
<joanie> scribenick: joanie
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/heh// Found ScribeNick: joanie Found ScribeNick: clown Found ScribeNick: joanie Inferring Scribes: joanie, clown Scribes: joanie, clown ScribeNicks: joanie, clown Default Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, David_Bolter Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer Joanmarie_Diggs Bryan_Garaventa Rich_Schwerdtfeger David_Bolter Found Date: 04 Nov 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/04-aapi-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]