See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 15 October 2014
<janina> agenda: this
<scribe> scribe: Gottfried
Janina: Jason is going to be a member of the educational testing services for graduate and undergrad testing in the US.
Janina: Objection to posting the minutes as submitted?
(no objection)
RESOLUTION: Post the mintues of 2014-10-08 as submitted.
Janina: Agenda is fairly firm
now.
... Friday is broken up between CSS issues (morning) and ARIA
issues (afternoon).
... All other meetings are going to be on Thu.
action-1518?
<trackbot> action-1518 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Draft comment on selection api http://www.w3.org/tr/2014/wd-selection-api-20141007/ -- due 2014-10-15 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1518
Joanmarie: We should watch this closely, but maybe not immediately comment on.
Janina: Can you send this by email?
<MichaelC> action-1517?
<trackbot> action-1517 -- Janina Sajka to Figure out why canvas 2d hit region testing wasn´t put in the spec -- due 2014-10-08 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1517
<MichaelC> action-1503?
<trackbot> action-1503 -- Lisa Seeman to Review css counter styles level 3 http://www.w3.org/tr/2014/wd-css-counter-styles-3-20140826/ -- due 2014-09-10 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1503
Michael: Do we care about 3.1 versions of XQuery and XPath?
Janina: Anybody cares?
(nobody)
<MichaelC> Data on the Web Best Practices Use Cases & Requirements
Michael: Seem to be real-word use
cases. Created reqs that are pretty dry - maybe not interesting
to us.
... Report from TR review: Intro rewording passed on.
... Same for Media Capture spec. Editors revised it, and hope
to have addressed the concern.
<MichaelC> Media Capture Depth Stream Extensions Editors´ Draft
Janina: We have noticed too many specs being published without introductory content for new readers. So we are systematically asking groups to take care of this.
Michael: Have skimmed over use
cases and reqs. Looks helpful, but overview text should be
copied into the intro section.
... Propose to request them coping it over.
Janina: Yes.
... Do we have a style sheet for intros?
<MichaelC> PF Introduction Guidelines
Michael: No, not exactly. I have started to draft guidance for our own use. Could evolve into something more general.
Janina: Would this go onto Charles' list on revamping W3C docs?
Michael: Not sure if this is about content. Seems to be more about structure.
Janina: Should we provide more
information in the W3C style sheets?
... Looking into expanding and folding content along
structure.
Michael: Have talked with Judy on quality assurance guidelines. But at that time QA was explicitly de-supported by membership.
Janina: Still think that some
comment along these lines should go into that thread.
... Maybe i should point at this.
... I will take that on.
Jason has been involved in a11y for many years. Worked with Al Gilman, WCAG, IndieUI, DAISY Consortium, etc.
Welcome, Jason!
Jason has started a research position at ETS in Princeton
Janina: 48-hour consensus call
running. Defining the terms under which a joint tf might
operate. Specific work statement.
... Are there any questions or comments in addition to those
made by email?
(none)
Janina: Any objection?
(none)
RESOLUTION: PF supports the call for consensus at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Oct/0074.html
Janina: Hopefully SVG will support this too, tomorrow.
Fred and Rich are the facilitators.
scribe: Is the focus on the caution for authors?
Cynthia: Yes
Jason: Could the use cases conflict with WCAG 2?
Janina: Yes.
Cynthia: I posted two use cases,
and James also posted some.
... One is for games, and another for custom zooming for
maps.
... James' was about imitating native zooming. Seems
controversial.
... We don't think WCAG covered the zooming of icons (only for
text). So we couldn't argue this case with WCAG.
Jason: The first use case is clear. Third is quite controversial.
Janina: So we need guidelines as to where it is okay to use this.
Cynthia: I think global font sizing and temporily zooming are different. WCAG is not clear here.
Janina: What about the many users that don't use AT?
Jason: We are not thinking about AT here. Concern if it makes it more difficult for the user to overwrite.
Cynthia: Configuration usually
works well.
... You may not be able to zoom fonts that are designed for
iPhone 6, if you use an iPhone 4.
... Is that a disability scenario? Maybe usability.
<Zakim> Joanmarie_Diggs, you wanted to ask if widgets were looked at
Joanmarie: Are widgets looked at?
In some versions of Bugzilla, if you update the global text
size, it doesn't update the size of some input elements.
... If no label is provided, there is a problem.
... There are other cases where non-icon instances are not
zoomed with the rest of the text.
Cynthia: Sounds like a bug.
Janina to author guidance and look into the spec as to where it is appropriate to use the metatag?
Jason: No technical changes?
Janina: it's already implemented on some platforms
Jason: Restrict the elements that it can be applied?
Cynthia: Almost every element can
have text in it.
... Maps are an example where you have text in it, but you
don't want to have the default zooming behavior.
Janina: We can say to CSS that
this is important and we want to work out the how.
... Minimum is authoring guidance, possibly also technical
restrictions.
Cynthia: We should help them to draft this.
Janina: Sure.
<joanie> +1 to collaborating with CSS (and other groups)
Janina: I will do the redraft. Already have an action item
Janina: We can drop this from the
agenda.
... Will discuss this at TPAC on Friday morning.
... Will try to send out the email today.
Janina: Rich is not here. Work continues. Heart-beat?
Michael: There is still a possibility of doing core accessibility mapping, but not exactly sure.
Joanmarie: We were going to do this, but didn't have a quorum. Thought that Joseph said a heart-beat before TPAC is unlikely.
Michael: I think we were still aiming for it. But didn't feel that it is a priority.
Janina: We are definitely a busy group.
Joanmarie: WAI-ARIA keeps us busy too.
Janina: No desperate need for a heart-beat at this time.
Janina: Waiting for a director's
decision on longdesc. Still pending, a lot to read.
... Hopefully it is going to be out soon.
... Pressure to publish a heart-beat of "Useful text
alternative in HTML".
... Concerns that this is missing some necessary pieces. Some
have been fixed.
... Some technologies in it didn't make it in the latest HTML5
spec.
... It would be faster as a note. Could then come back as part
of HTML5.
... No editor assigned at the moment.
... Judy insists that there should be at least a staff contact
as co-editor, for bureaucratic format details.
Jason: Coming in late in
reviewing this doc. It doesn't clarify the usage of the various
HTML elements that can be used to present textual
alternatives.
... It should not overwrite WCAG or WCAG techniques.
... You would not expect an informational doc coming from the
HTML tf. What exactly is its role?
... Would like to see a discussion on all elements that can be
used.
Janina: I encourage you to file
bugs.
... Easier if we go the note path.
... Historical reasons for having this guidance in the HTML5
spec. But this question needs to be addressed separately.
<Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask who the editor of the document is now
Fred: People are not worried about the proper HTML tag. Often, alternative text has interactivity involved. That's problematic.
Janina: That's right, but
probably out of scope for the doc, because it is on the image
tag.
... Meeting adjourned.
actions?
<janina> ///join#