W3C

- DRAFT -

Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
02 Sep 2014

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich_Schwerdtfeger
Regrets
David_Bolter
Chair
Joseph_Scheuhammer
Scribe
joanie

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 02 September 2014

<clown> agenda: this

argh, forgot. meeting

<scribe> Scribenick: joanie

<clown> action-1504?

<trackbot> action-1504 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Core-AAM mappings of aria-readonly="true" when propagated to gridcell. -- due 2014-09-05 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1504

JS: We decided this last week. I did the edits and want to run them by everyone.
... This is about when an author puts aria-readonly="true" on a treegrid, it is therefore inherited by all the gridcells

RS: What do you put in for AXValue? Is it a string? Something else?

JS: I think it depends on context, but I'm not an Apple developer.

(More discussion with examples about what the AXValue might contain)

<clown> AXRole: TextArea …. AXValue (W) <empty string>

<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/

<clown> AXRole: AXTable,

<clown> AXSubrole: <nil>,

<clown> AXDescription: 'table', AND

<clown> AXValue: is not writable.

<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testresults?testsuite_id=1&testcase_id=181

RS: We should run the tests/check this out for the Mac.

<richardschwerdtfeger> issue: Core Mapping Spec. does not adequately define readonly mapping for axValue on MacOSX

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-675 - Core mapping spec. does not adequately define readonly mapping for axvalue on macosx. Please complete additional details at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/675/edit>.

RS: My concern is that is not programmatically determinable.

JS: I will keep this action open then.

RS: I think this issue is something different. I think you could close the action.

JS: But we don't have Mozilla's approval.

RS: But it describes what it does now?

JS: Probably, but I'm not sure.
... This new wording probably does require a new test case.

JD: I'll look into the ATK mapping issue (no mapping)

JS: Ok, I'll leave this open for now and come back to it in two weeks?

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=690008

JD: The above bug is one of a set of three I think.

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=665598

JS: The definition of read-only is that the user can read, but not set the value of the widget.
... A column header has a sort-value. Perhaps if the header is readonly, you cannot change the sort order.
... Other actions (focus, copying values, etc.) should not be disabled.
... There are other places where it says AXValue (Writable).
... This is not limited to gridcell.
... The other places specify the value of AXValue, so they're ok.

ACTION-1396: (Cynthia) MSAA+UIAExpress mapping of grid role.

JS: Cynthia is not here.

ACTION-980: (David) Define mappings for managed aria related states.

JS: David is not here. But David contacted me earlier today to say he's working on it.

<clown> action-980?

<trackbot> action-980 -- David Bolter to Define mappings for managed aria related states: aria-setsize, aria-posinset, arla-level, focused, focusable with reference to section 5.5 bullet 1 of the UAIG. -- due 2014-08-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980

JS: There's a section in the document about managed ARIA states.
... All I remember about this is that there are a set of states which are related and should sort of go together in their mappings.

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#mapping_state-property

5.5 bullet 1: User agents must compute managed states VISIBLE/INVISIBLE, SHOWING/OFFSCREEN, etc. This typically is done in the same way as for ordinary elements that do not have WAI-ARIA attributes present. The FOCUSABLE/FOCUSED states may be affected by aria-activedescendant. See the rules in Controlling focus with aria-activedescendant.

JS: I find this very difficult to understand.
... And I think that was the issue: What does this really mean?

RS: What they are saying is that the accessible DOM should reflect the changes to the elements that are rendered.
... So these are for user agents; not the author.
... Authors can override some states, such as posinset and level.

JS: Ok, I understand it better now. But now, what is action-980 about?

RS: So we have setsize, posinset, level. But we don't have mappings for the visibility, do we?

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#mapping_events_visibility

RS: Those are events. Where are the states?
... For example, when you scroll in Firefox, some things go off the screen.
... That's the stuff I think you need (as an example).

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#focus_state_event_table

JS: We have a table for focused states and events (above link)

RS: So we probably need showing and/or offscreen.

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/AT-APIs/MSAA/States

JS: So Mozilla is already doing this.

RS: (Reads from the document linked above on MSAA States)

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/AT-APIs/Gecko/States#STATE_INVISIBLE

JS: I'm going to put a note in the action about this.

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/AT-APIs/MSAA/States

https://developer.gnome.org/atk/stable/atk-AtkState.html#AtkStateType

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=648260

<clown> http://asurkov.blogspot.ca/2012/02/firefox-12-for-at-developers.html

JS: In the above blogpost, Alex Surkov explains how these states are used in Gecko.

RS: I think you want to have a dedicated section for managed states.

SVG

RS: We need to agree on name computation.

JS: I think we need to have a separate document.

RS: I talked to Janina and Michael briefly about this. It would not be outside our charter to do this.

<richardschwerdtfeger> RS: In a later agenda item please add disussion as to when to expose SVG objects in the absence of ARIA attributes

<richardschwerdtfeger> RS: In a later agenda item we need to agree on SVG name computation in whatever document it shows up in. This includes HTML.

JS: Do you want this for next week's meeting?

RS: I'd certainly like the first one, but on the other we need to discuss things with James.
... There can be two child tags, one can be title one can be desc, and this changes the name computation potentially.

Summary of Action Items

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Found ScribeNick: joanie
Inferring Scribes: joanie
Default Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich_Schwerdtfeger
Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer Joanmarie_Diggs Bryan_Garaventa Rich_Schwerdtfeger
Regrets: David_Bolter
Found Date: 02 Sep 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/09/02-aapi-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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