<trackbot> Date: 26 August 2014

<joanie> clown: both :)

<clown> agenda: this

<joanie> Scribenick: joanie

ACTION-1199: (All) Browsers SHOULD note errors on console for missing required attributes -- review edits.

<clown> action-1199?

<trackbot> action-1199 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Draft UAIG requirement (MAY in 1.0, SHOULD in 1.1?) for UAs to throw errors in the console when required attributes are missing. -- due 2014-05-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1199

JS: This is for David, who is not here.
... There is a statement in the author errors section of the core mapping document:

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#document-handling_author-errors

JS: I know Cynthia is ok with this change.
... There is a sentence now that user agents SHOULD report these errors by console. It used to be a MAY.
... I am now waiting for Mozilla to say yea or nay, and give me a reason why if it is a nay.

RS: Why do we care about reporting errors in the console?

JS: The original request/discussion at a face-to-face 2 years ago, maybe.
... The request was that the browser should make errors more clear.

RS: There are system settings that drive things like show sounds.
... If you have an alert, you can have it drive sounds.

JS: Clarifies that this is about authoring errors.
... But popping up an alert would impact end users.
... So the agreement was to have a MAY for console errors.
... But at the same meeting there was agreement to make it a SHOULD for ARIA 1.1.

<clown> <span role="checkbox">…</span>

RS: Agrees emphatically that an alert would be inappropriate.
... Alert is NOT meant for validation.

JS: That is what we agreed at the face-to-face. And we suggested as an alternative, how about the error console?

RS: I wouldn't even suggest that.
... If someone is writing a validator for accessible content, these errors should be flagged in a console. The browser doesn't have to do anything for that.

JS: Right, because you have a special tool.

RS: Jon Gunderson does the same thing in his validator tool.

JS: Personally, there is where I think this sort of thing belongs.

RS: Agreed. Definitely.
... I think the entire statement should be removed (i.e. as opposed to even being left as a MAY)
... If no one is going to do it, what is the point?

JS: Cynthia is ok with this change.

JD: I don't have a strong opinion as long as authors find their errors.

RS: Yes, they can use (existing) tools to do this.
... To really make this work, a browser would need to build in a full accessibility checker.

JS: At the moment, the browser is going to handle the error and set the default value to False. So the browser is already handling it.
... So to play devil's advocate, why not have the browser log an error to console.

RS: I would take it out, but I don't have a strong opinion either way.

<richardschwerdtfeger> Rich Proposal: Remove the text that suggests that a browser may, should, or must notify the user through console of missing required ARIA attributes.

<richardschwerdtfeger> +1

<clown> scribenick: clown

<bgaraventa1979> +1

+1

JS: I've added a note to remove the statement from the spec, and reopend the action.

RS: I'll make a resolution.

<richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: remove the text pertaining to console notification in action 1199

<joanie> +1

<scribe> scribenick: joanie

ACTION-980: (David) Define mappings for managed aria related states.

<clown> action-980?

<trackbot> action-980 -- David Bolter to Define mappings for managed aria related states: aria-setsize, aria-posinset, arla-level, focused, focusable with reference to section 5.5 bullet 1 of the UAIG. -- due 2014-08-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980

JS: David is not here. I wanted to get an update on how he is progressing. It was due last week.
... Let's skip it until he is here.
... My proposal is... There's a link at the end of that agendum.

RS: So predefined tokens. I don't see why that's a problem.

JS: The current mapping guide states just copy the unknown value in.
... A better way to do it is just set it to False.

RS: I think that's probably correct.

JS: Plus UIA sets it to false.

RS: I think it's better to do that. Do we need to file any defects against browsers?

JS: Probably do.
... James Craig said "looks good to me", so Apple seems to be on board.
... I will make these changes then and mark the action as pending review to given everyone one last chance to agree or disagree.

ISSUE-514/ACTION-1341: (All) Spec says that aria-required is propagated to descendants in grid/treegrid. Verbiage needed in Core-AAM?

<clown> action-1341?

<trackbot> action-1341 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Patch issue-514: treegrid and grid propagation requirement should be normative. -- due 2014-01-30 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1341

JS: This is something that James changed in the spec and then assigned the action to me to see if anything needs to be changed in the mapping document.
... (Reads what the spec now states re propagation)
... This is aria-readonly.

RS: So is just for the cells, or also the rows?

JS: Do rows have a read-only property?

RS: It doesn't have it here for inherited states and properties.
... I don't see readonly on a grid cell. That's a bug.

<richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-1.1/roles#gridcell

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#gridcell

JS: It's in the editor's draft.

RS: I'm looking at ARIA 1.1 document.

JS: It's not there under row.

RS: So it's inherited down to the grid cells? And we say that in the spec? Let's verify.

JS: Yes, it's in the grid role.

<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1341

(Some discussion about the current wording)

JS: We can send it back to James Craig with our questions about the wording.

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#role-map-grid

JS: The above is the mapping of grid. Do we want to put somewhere in there that if grid is readonly that propagates down to the grid cells?

<richardschwerdtfeger> Rich Proposal: aria-readonly=“true” For elements with role=“gridcell” and no aria-readonly property the gridcell must inherit any author applied aria-readonly=“true” property from the containing grid or treegrid.

<richardschwerdtfeger> +1

<clown> +1

<bgaraventa1979> +1

<richardschwerdtfeger> joanie verbally stated +1 due to connectivity problems

<richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: Adopt Rich’s proposal in action 1341

<richardschwerdtfeger> scribenick: richardschwerdtfeger

zakim takeup next item

ACTION-1396: (All) Role grid maps to table role in AAPIs; need to also convey it is an interactive grid.

<clown> action-1396?

<trackbot> action-1396 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Modify uaig to convey grid role in accessibility mappings, beyond table. (atk/atspi/ ia2 xml-role=grid, macosx: roledescription: grid, msaa/uiaexpress localizedcontroltype="grid"?) -- due 2014-08-26 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1396

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#role-map-grid

<clown> action-1396?

<trackbot> action-1396 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Modify uaig to convey grid role in accessibility mappings, beyond table. (atk/atspi/ ia2 xml-role=grid, macosx: roledescription: grid, msaa/uiaexpress localizedcontroltype="grid"?) -- due 2014-08-26 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1396

clown: The text of the action item says: “Modify uaig to convey grid role in accessibility mappings, beyond table. (atk/atspi/ ia2 xml-role=grid, macosx: roledescription: grid, msaa/uiaexpress localizedcontroltype="grid"?)"

rich: You should speak with cynthia

clown: a grid is like a spreadsheet. a table is like a time table for a train
... tables allow cells to expand/collapse rows from a gridcell
... a table is static

rich: correct macox as James minuted that call but check with Cynthia

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138  of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/back to him/back to James Craig/
Succeeded: s/treegrid/table/
Succeeded: s/a treegrid is like/a table is like/
Found ScribeNick: joanie
Found ScribeNick: clown
Found ScribeNick: joanie
Found ScribeNick: richardschwerdtfeger
Inferring Scribes: joanie, clown, richardschwerdtfeger
Scribes: joanie, clown, richardschwerdtfeger
ScribeNicks: joanie, clown, richardschwerdtfeger
Default Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, +1.603.493.aaaa, +1.603.493.aabb, Joseph_Scheuhammmer
Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer Joanmarie_Diggs Bryan_Garaventa Rich_Schwerdtfeger +1.603.493.aaaa +1.603.493.aabb Joseph_Scheuhammmer

WARNING: Replacing previous Regrets list. (Old list: David_Bolter)
Use 'Regrets+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list,
such as: <dbooth> Regrets+ Cynthia_Shelly

Regrets: Cynthia_Shelly
Found Date: 26 Aug 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/08/26-aapi-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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