W3C

- DRAFT -

User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

14 Aug 2014

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
kford, Jim_Allan, Kim_Patch, Jeanne, Jan, Greg_Lowney
Regrets
Chair
JimAllan, KellyFord
Scribe
allanj

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 14 August 2014

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0051.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0050.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0047.html

open item 1

<scribe> scribe: allanj

<jeanne> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2014/

main page for TPAC http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/

rewrite 1.8.2 example 2

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0047.html

Resolution: add "George uses a screen reader. He is showing a sighted colleague how to complete a registration form that's contained within a viewport. The form exceeds the vertical bounds of the viewport. As George completes each form field and navigates sequentially to the next (by pressing the TAB key), if the next form field is not already visible in the viewport, it scrolls into view."...
... as example 2 for 1.8.2 on comment EO21

close action-1010

<trackbot> Closed action-1010.

proposal for CA05

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0042.html

<scribe> NEW 3.2.X Form Auto-Fill: The user can have the following information stored and used to auto-fill form fields at their request: (Level AA) - name - email address - phone number

ja: any objections?

Resolution: Add NEW 3.2.X Form Auto-Fill: The user can have the following information stored and used to auto-fill form fields at their request: (Level AA) - name - email address - phone number to document
... Add NEW 3.2.X Form Auto-Fill: The user can have the following information stored and used to auto-fill form fields by request: (Level AA) - name - email address - phone number to document

<scribe> NEW 3.2.Y Save Form Entries: If the user agent provides a feature to save local versions of web content, then any form fields the user has filled retain their entries in the saved version. (Level AA)

this is split out of Kim's proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0034.html)

IER can be rescued from Kim's proposal 0034.html

<scribe> NEW 3.2.Y Save Form Entries: If the user agent provides a feature to save local versions of web content, then any form fields the user has filled retain any entries in the saved version. (Level AA)

ja: +1

kp: +1

kf: +1

RESOLUTION: NEW 3.2.Y Save Form Entries: If the user agent provides a feature to save local versions of web content, then any form fields the user has filled retain any entries in the saved version. (Level AA)

EDIT 1.8.10 Provide Viewport History: For user agents that implement a history mechanism for top-level viewports (e.g. "back" button), the user can return to any state in the viewport history that is allowed by the content, including: (Level AA)

(a) restored point of regard,

(b) input focus,

(c) selection, and

(d) user's form field entries

reformatted as a list, added form field entry history

RESOLUTION: EDIT 1.8.10 Provide Viewport History: For user agents that implement a history mechanism for top-level viewports (e.g. "back" button), the user can return to any state in the viewport history that is allowed by the content, including: (Level AA)

(a) restored point of regard,

(b) input focus,

(c) selection, and

(d) user's form field entries

close action-1009

<trackbot> Closed action-1009.

close action-1006

<trackbot> Closed action-1006.

close item 3

close item 2

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to update 1.8.10 with proposal above. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1012 - Update 1.8.10 with proposal above. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-08-21].

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to add IER to 3.2.y from Kim's proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1013 - Add ier to 3.2.y from kim's proposal [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-08-21].

new example for 2.11.3 per SB04

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0050.html

"Pavel has low vision, so his browser is set to show extremely large text. He needs to click on a control on a web page, but when he moves the pointer over it a script inserts explanatory text onto the page. Because of the large font size this shifts the control out from under the pointer, causing the new text to disappear. This moves the control back under the mouse, and the cycle repeats...

scribe: itself. The page continues to flicker back and forth, and he is unable to click on the control. To work around this problem he uses a browser command to temporarily disable scripts on the page, allowing him to click on the control and complete his task."

ja: nice

RESOLUTION: except example for 2.11.3 for comment SB04

updating example for 2.9.1

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0051.html

related to SB05

"User closes the Exit command on their web browser, which displays a message box asking if they're sure they want to exit, with a timer saying it will assume yes if they don't respond within 10 seconds. User changes settings in their user options to turn off this timeout."

gl: I also think that the Intent should be greatly expanded to clarify what is meant by the various exceptions, especially "Real-time Exception: The time limit is a required part of a real-time event and no alternative to the time limit is possible" and "Essential Exception: The time limit is essential and extending it would invalidate the activity". It was easier to come up with examples...
... for these when the SC applied to content, but now that it's only about the user agent user interface, it's not so obvious. Can others help with examples?

2.9.1 Adjustable Time Limits:

The user agent user interface does not include time limits or at least one of the following is true: (Level A)

Turn Off: Users are allowed to turn off the time limit before encountering it; or

Adjust: Users are allowed to adjust the time limit before encountering it over a wide range that is at least ten times the length of the default setting; or

Extend: Users are warned before time expires and given at least 20 seconds to extend the time limit with a simple action (e.g. "press the space bar"), and users are allowed to extend the time limit at least ten times; or

Real-time Exception: The time limit is a required part of a real-time event and no alternative to the time limit is possible; or

Essential Exception: The time limit is essential and extending it would invalidate the activity; or

20 Hour Exception: The time limit is longer than 20 hours.

Original SC

2.9.1 Adjustable Time Limits: Where time limits for user input are recognized and controllable by the user agent, the user can extend the time limits. (Level A)

kf: do we really want the browser to impact how much time I can spend at my bank website
... UAs have very few timeouts these days. should say Note: this only applies to only UA interface, not content.

jr: if we add note, then anytime we use UAUI we have to include the note.

ja: Jaws and Window eyes can control meta-refresh

kf: very few websites do meta-refresh. most do an AJAX call

ja: this seems very complex

discussion

kf: want this to be obvious that it does not apply to content.

history http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-ua-minutes.html#item03

see Action-941

jr: the timing of things is an issue, for dialog buttons, or setting

<kford> +10000 on what Jan is saying!

jr: not include meta-refresh, or ajax. Internet security says don't trust the browser.

<kford> The general rule is no longer trust the UAAG without knowing you can verify.

<kford> ACTION: kford to look at how we reference applicablability to just the user agent and ensure he's happy with it based off of 2.9.1 discussion. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1014 - Look at how we reference applicablability to just the user agent and ensure he's happy with it based off of 2.9.1 discussion. [on Kelly Ford - due 2014-08-21].

<kford> ACTION: kford to review and revise IER for 2.9.1. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1015 - Review and revise ier for 2.9.1. [on Kelly Ford - due 2014-08-21].

ja: the Intent is completely out of alignment with the SC

gl: this seems overly complicated

<kford> ACTION: kford to shorten and clarify 2.9.1 based on group thinking that it only applies to user agent UI and reflect GL's belief that it is too long. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1016 - Shorten and clarify 2.9.1 based on group thinking that it only applies to user agent ui and reflect gl's belief that it is too long. [on Kelly Ford - due 2014-08-21].

WAET

WAI invites you to comment on the First Public Working Draft of:

Developers' Guide to Features of Web Accessibility Evaluation Tools

http://www.w3.org/TR/WAET/

close item 1

Ms04

http://www.w3.org/2014/05/01-ua-minutes.html#item03

related to 2.3.4

def of recognize MS04

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014AprJun/0026.html

Proposal:

Recognize: *Information or events that can be identified unambiguously by user agents.*

*Recognized content:**Information that is encoded within content in a way that can be unambiguously recognized by user agents.* Authors encode information in many ways, including in markup languages, style sheet languages, scripting languages, and protocols. When the information is encoded in a manner that allows the user agent to process it with certainty, the user agent can...

scribe: "recognize" the information. For instance, HTML allows authors to specify a heading with the H1 element, so a user agent that implements HTML can recognize that content as a heading. If *instead* the author creates a heading using a visual effect alone (e.g. just by increasing the font size), then the author has encoded the *paragraph* in a manner that does not allow the user agent to...
... recognize it as a heading. *In those cases**the heading is unrecognized and the user agent would not be required to treat it as a heading*. Some requirements of UAAG 2.0 depend on content roles, content

relationships, timing relationships, and other information supplied by the author. These requirements only apply when the author has encoded that information in a manner that the user agent can recognize. See the section on conformance for more information about applicability. User agents will rely heavily on information that the author has encoded in a markup language or style sheet...

scribe: language. Behaviors, style, *and* meaning encoded in a script, and markup in an unfamiliar XML namespace*,* may not be recognized by the user agent as easily or at all.

*Note: Whether or not an aspect of the content is considered recognized depends solely on the content format and the way an author encodes the information. Because the H1 tag is part of the HTML standard, when it is used properly by the content author the heading would be considered recognized even if a particular user agent ignores the H1 tag.*

*Recognized actions: Actions or events that can be unambiguously identified by a user agent. This can include actions or events initiated by users, scripts, extensions, or other sources. For example, if the keyboard focus is on a web page when the user presses a key, the user agent can recognize the keystroke and can act upon it. If the keyboard focus is on an embedded media player...

scribe: when the user presses a key, the host user agent may or may not be able to detect the keystroke, depending on the embedding architecture. Similarly, when the user activates an INPUT element with type="submit", the user agent will recognize this as a form submission action and carry out the proper interchange with the server. However, if a page includes a custom control that looks like a...
... button labeled "Submit**" but whose actions are entirely handled by an author-provided script, the user agent would not be able to recognize the user action as equivalent to a form submission. Actions such

as opening of new browser window would always be implemented by the user agent, so the action would be recognized regardless of whether it was initiated by the user clicking a button or by a script calling a browser function.*

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to edit definition of Recognized as above [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1017 - Edit definition of recognized as above [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-08-21].

RESOLUTION: add definition "recognize" along with explanation to document (SB04)

<KimPatch> Topic SBO4 example

sb04 example

<KimPatch> Pavel has low vision, and his browser is set to show extremely large text. He needs to click a control on a web page, but when he moves the pointer over it a script inserts explanatory text onto the page. The large font size causes the control to shift out from under the pointer, making the new text disappear. When the text disappears, the control moves back under the mouse, and the cycle...

<KimPatch> ...repeats. As the page flickers, Pavel is unable to click on the control. To work around this problem he uses a browser command to temporarily disable scripts on the page so he can click the control and complete his task.

<kford> Hey, I have to leave a couple early!

<kford> My apologies.

<Greg> close ACTION-977

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-977.

MS07 beyond desktop

js: checked with indieUI, and MC about language related to keyboard...no luck

close action-983

<trackbot> Closed action-983.

js: we reference all mobile examples in the implementing document because it is more easily updated.

<jeanne> proposed response to MS07: UAWG published a separate W3C Note with Mobile examples of most of the UAAG success criteria. UAWG chose to put most of their non-desktop examples in the Implementing document, so it could be kept up to date without undermining the stability of UAAG success criteria.

kp: with mobile and speech, focus doesn't matter. Siri moves to where you say.

ja: or with gestures, you set the 'dial' to links then each swipe moves to the next link

gl: you can always use a blue tooth keyboard to control the mobile browser

kp: focus is an issue with speech, can't delete characters during text entry

gl: the comment mentions keyboard. and we don't address that issue

js: keyboard was just an example.

<Greg> The concern about availability of keyboard input is caused by misinterpreting the technical term "keyboard", which is not limited to the on-screen keyboards provided by the platform. In our document the term also includes physical keyboards that can be connected externally, third-party on-screen keyboards that can add modifiers and navigation keys, and software interfaces that can be used by...

<Greg> ...assistive technology software.

<jeanne> UAWG put non-desktop examples throughout Implementing UAAG. UAWG chose to put most of their non-desktop examples in Implementing UAAG (a W3C Note), so it could be kept up to date without undermining the stability of UAAG success criteria. In addition, UAAG contains broad definitions of keyboard and a note under Principle 2 on Modality independence which also includes references to Indie UI.

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to buff the proposed response to MS07 above to include some of Greg's text and links to the referenced items. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1018 - Buff the proposed response to ms07 above to include some of greg's text and links to the referenced items. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-08-21].

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to add IER to 3.2.y from Kim's proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to buff the proposed response to MS07 above to include some of Greg's text and links to the referenced items. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to edit definition of Recognized as above [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to update 1.8.10 with proposal above. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: kford to look at how we reference applicablability to just the user agent and ensure he's happy with it based off of 2.9.1 discussion. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: kford to review and revise IER for 2.9.1. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: kford to shorten and clarify 2.9.1 based on group thinking that it only applies to user agent UI and reflect GL's belief that it is too long. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action05]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.138 (CVS log)
$Date: 2014-08-14 18:43:37 $

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

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Found Scribe: allanj
Inferring ScribeNick: allanj
Default Present: kford, Jim_Allan, Kim_Patch, Jeanne, Jan, Greg_Lowney
Present: kford Jim_Allan Kim_Patch Jeanne Jan Greg_Lowney
Found Date: 14 Aug 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html
People with action items: jeanne kford

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