29 Jul 2014

See also: IRC log


tantek, +1.559.707.aaaa, +1.559.707.aabb, Doug_Schepers, +1.314.777.aacc, +1.514.525.aadd, hhalpin, +1.541.848.aaee, +1.415.514.aaff, +1.978.238.aagg, Arnaud, my_name, Sandro, +1.646.632.aahh, +1.703.670.aaii, +1.425.736.aajj, jasnell, +1.512.257.aakk, bret, dret, Lloyd_Fassett, ericmeeks, MarkC
Tantek, Arnaud


<KevinMarks> Could this password thing be any worse?

<tantek_> Enroute to a telcon-safe location

<tantek_> Thank you Harry

<tantek_> " Sorry, Insufficient Access Privileges"

<tantek_> Harry please make the realtime logs realtime public.

<tantek_> Zakim mute tantek

<tantek_> Zakim tantek_ is tantek

<tantek_> Zakim tantek_ is in tantek

<tantek_> Tantek will be muted for ~10 min

tantek_: per our discussion, https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#Sched

Zakim: +1.514.525.aadd is me

<cwebber> okay I'm in

<tantek_> evanp: Nice start on sched! Agree with topics but don't believe any of the dates. ;)

<tantek_> I'll be quiet for 10-15 min while Harry sorts out telcon etc issues

<rhiaro> I'm here (Amy from U of Edinburgh) but I can't dial in, I think my 3g is too poor

<bret> harry how do i associate with a sip account?

Zakim: aadd is evanp

<lehawes> I got in to the call fine, from 617 area code, via Google Voice

<cwebber> +Chris

<cwebber> or ChrisWebber?

<cwebber> anyway

Oh, that's great!

Zakim: aadd is evanp

<botie> i already had it that way, evanp.

<cwebber> some sort of large buzzing noise

<jasnell> Zakim +1.559.707.aabb

<Arnaud> a bit??

<claudio_venezia> is there a toll free#social or european number?

<Arnaud> there is like a fan or motor in the background

<Arnaud> very annoying

<Arnaud> thanks :)

That did it!

<oshepherd> claudio_venezia: SIP

<claudio_venezia> which SIP client?

<botie> i already had it that way, bret.

<Lloyd_Fassett> 1.541.848.2440

I'm Evan Prodromou, http://evan.prodromou.name/ and https://e14n.com/evan

<jasnell> Jasnell... IBM. Author/editor Activity streams 2.0

<harry> Harry Halpin, W3C staff contact for Social Web WG

Co-chair, developer of several Open Source social software packages

<cwebber> this is Christopher Allan Webber, I'm at http://dustycloud.org/ and lead developer of http://mediagoblin.org/; we're currently implementing Pump API support for MediaGoblin so are actively working on federation support

<cwebber> or, Tsyesika is :)

<Tsyesika> Jessica Tallon, developer on mediagoblin leading up federation support :)

<Arnaud> Arnaud Le Hors, Senior Technical Staff Member, Open Web Standards - IBM Software Group

<jonpincus> jon pincus, just listening :)

<oshepherd> Owen Shepherd. http://owenshepherd.net; Develop Impeller, Hubub, both ActivityStreams/Pump.io clients/processors

<Arnaud> also chair of the LDP WG

<sandro> Hi everyone, I'm Sandro Hawke. I've been W3C staff for many years, doing many WGs, but for this group I'm not the staff contact -- I'm here on behalf a decentralized social project called Crosscloud.

<AdamB> Adam Boyet, Boeing, interested in federation and social with regard to the enterprise

<MarkC> Mark Crawford, Application Standards Strategy, SAP

<shepazu> Doug Schepers, W3C, involved in SVG, WebApps, touch/pointer events, Web Audio API, and the proposed Web Annotations WG

harry: not everyone has the agenda

<Deborah> This is Deborah Estrin and other members of small data lab @ Cornell Tech

https://www.w3.org/wiki/July_29th draft agenda here

<Lloyd_Fassett> I am the founder of Azteria. We are an 'open' staffing platform. I'm interested in open social standards where candidates and employers can connect with each other for short or long term relationships.

<lehawes> Hey! lehawes = Larry Hawes :>) I contributed to the CSCC social business white paper and continue be involved with social standardization efforts going on at w3c

<harry> The draft agenda is here, although we'll make it more interactive: https://www.w3.org/wiki/July_29th

Questions about charter of IG and WG

<lehawes> I'm a advisor to software companies and an industry analyst as my day job

<tantek> Harry see irc above

<harry> http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-wg-charter.html

<ericmeeks> This is Eric Meeks at UCSF: http://profiles.ucsf.edu/eric.meeks We have been integrating OpenSocial into biomedical research and academic profiling. In particular, working on integrating Linked Open Data with OpenSocial

<harry> http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-ig-charter.html

<harry> scribe: hhalpin

<harry> evanp: the WG is tightly focussed, with 3 clear deliverables, so we should be successful

<harry> markC: Note that we in the IG is also doing the overall architecture, as well as semantic vocabularies, and acting as a liasion in that capacity.

<oshepherd> OpenSocial Embedded Experiences is listed as an input to the WG. How much of what that covers is considered in scope - is the embedded "gadgets" stuff in scope?

<shepazu> speaking of groups that will be using the deliverables of the Social Web WG, here a brief intro on the Web Annotations WG, which will be reusing some of the Social Web WG's APIs. Web Annotations WG page: http://www.w3.org/2014/annotation/ and workshop report: http://www.w3.org/2014/04/annotation/report.html

evanp: now the scribe

<sandro> consensus in one sentence: We're all on the same side, trying to figure out the best standard we can, in the given time frame.

<jasnell> oshepherd: that still needs to be defined.

<bret> new (2nd time)

<cwebber> new (ish)

<Deborah> new

<ericmeeks> new (enough)

<Tsyesika> new

<jonpincus> new

<scribe> new (always feel new)

<falquaddoomi> new as well (i'm a member of Deborah's research group)

<sandro> dinosaur :-)

<oshepherd> new (gah, call dropped =()

evanp: quite a few new people

harry: fill out invited expert form soon
... form not required just for bureacracy's sake

<Lloyd_Fassett> Is there a way to know if we've previously filled that out and been approved? Is it in our W3C profile?

harry: to support a royalty-free environment

http://www.w3.org/2004/08/invexp.html for invited expert process

<Arnaud> + w3c depends on membership dues for funding

<Lloyd_Fassett> +Q


<cwebber> I guess I should see if I should go through that or if I should be going as a GNU member

<harry> http://www.w3.org/Help/Account/

<MarkC> could not understand Lloyd

<Lloyd_Fassett> Is there a way to know if we've previously filled that out and been approved? Is it in our W3C profile?

harry: if you've already filled out the application, it should be in your w3c profile
... if you've been an invited expert for a previous group, you have to fill it out again

<Lloyd_Fassett> thank you

harry: you can always try again

<harry> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/ieapp/

<falquaddoomi> just fyi, deborah and the rest of our group unfortunately have to part

<MarkC> If you are a W3C member, then your AC will need to approve your participation

<Zakim> sandro, you wanted to clarify the IE process

<tantek> Perhaps even post the link to your own site ;)

evanp: is there anything special we need to do to invite experts?

harry: sending the URL is sufficient
... the chairs do review the applications to make sure they're going to contribute

<sandro> sandro: just to clarify that there is an evaluation that happens with invited expert applications

<MarkC> for new members: http://www.w3.org/participate/faq

<AdamB> +1

<Lloyd_Fassett> +1

<ericmeeks> +1

<oshepherd> +1 great for Europe :-)

<lehawes> +1

harry: type in +1 for if you like this time

<Tsyesika> +1

<jonpincus> +1


<cwebber> +1

<jasnell> +1

<bret> +1

<MarkC> Social IG will do a separate doodle poll for its meetings

<sandro> -1 ON PROCESS. I love this meeting time, but you can't ask people AT THIS TIME if this is a good time

<oshepherd> (Or at least great for UK; after work, etc)

<harry> We have also asked over email.

harry: we will take into account responses by email also

<MarkC> Depending on coverage, we may need to do alternate early late calls to spread the pain

<mattl> +1

<harry> http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/


harry: our first face-to-face meeting will be at TPAC
... it coincides with the 20th anniversary of w3c

<botie> i already had it that way, dret.

<tantek> +1 on telcon time

harry: the W3C has reserved two days for the meeting
... we should set up a developer meetup

<lehawes> Will TPAC include WG, IG or both for meetings?

Arnaud: thanks

<bret> I gotta run unfortunately

<lehawes> Specifically asking about Social WG and IG meetings at TPAC

<tantek> If there's interest we can also organize an indieweb hack session then jointly with socialwg

jasnell: will double-check with OpenSocial about developer meetup

harry: do we need a 1-day meeting or 2-day meeting?


<harry> +2

<lehawes> +q

We have a lot to cover

<Arnaud> +2

<MarkC> +2

<claudio_venezia> +2

<jasnell> +2

<tantek> +2 for day 1 discussions, day 2 hack day

<sandro> +2

<Lloyd_Fassett> +2

<AdamB> +2

Getting to work

MarkC: first order of business is organization
... use cases are a high priority
... but other priorities will come


<harry> evanp: note that we have 3 deliverables in the charter so we owe it our future selves so we should liason and review the rest of the social data structures

<harry> ... first week or two to look at other syntaxes

<tantek> I for one don't take AS as an assumption. However I'm in favor of empowering productive efforts to move forward rapidly.

<harry> ... so if we land on AS 2.0, we have a defensible position

harry: we will look at the specs called out in the working group charter

<harry> at least at the beginning :)

<cwebber> if we're looking into activitystreams 2.0, I'm also interested in whether or not json-ld is used; there's a brief mention of it on the charter page

sandro: will we be generating requirements documents?

<cwebber> btw, potentially interesting to this, Manu Sporny pointed to http://manu.sporny.org/2014/identity-credentials/ which could tie in


<Zakim> sandro, you wanted to ask about the UCR for that evaluation

<lehawes> How will work between Social IG and WG be coordinated? Very important if IG is writing use cases/requirements and WG is creating specs.

<harry> evanp: will likely come up with JSON based structure

<jasnell> +q

<harry> ... love to put this swikipage together

<harry> ... before our next call

shepazu: web audio working group created use cases, developed requirements from them, and then built them into the specification

<Arnaud> where does the wiki page come from? http://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Use_cases

<tantek> Zakim who is here?

use Activity Streams as a baseline, and compare against it

jasnell: Regarding where it publishes, AS 2.0 has been on IETF, simple process
... did not come through a working group process

<MarkC> +1

jasnell: should just be a w3c document only


<tantek> Whoa thanks botie

<Arnaud> +q

harry: I talked to the application area director, not going to start anything around Activity Streams

<harry> evanp: would it save us time to have us just keep RFC

harry: will work with AS community to make sure patent issues are handled

<harry> hhalpin: We've discussed with IETF AD, they don't plan to start an AS WG

Arnaud: IETF are under RAND license, different process
... W3C process much more rigourous

<harry> thinking test-suites

jasnell: comment on AS 1.0

<tantek> IETF lacks good history of open/free test suites as compared to w3c

jasnell: AS 1.0 authors provided OWF agreements

<tantek> Eg iCal is all pay for play in closed test meetings.

<tantek> jasnell: Did google ever provide OWF FSA?

<tantek> Not afaik

<jasnell> I believe so. Yes. I will double check

<botie> i already had it that way, sandro.

harry: let's discuss what we want to get out of this interest group

<harry> I think Google *did* sign the OWA

<tantek_> harry not AFAIK

harry: trying to match voices to names

<tantek_> anyway - it's a simple matter of providing the URL to the signed OWA FSA if it exists

<tantek_> otherwise we must assume it does not exist

<botie> i already had it that way, tantek_.

<tantek_> botie :)

<botie> tantek_: i'm not following you...

jasnell: getting to common set of social data standards, many people using it, pull the threads back together

<harry> we should look for OWA, sounds like an ACTION item for jasnell :)

<cwebber> not really totally sure how to register myself with the bot

<cwebber> esp if I called in via SIP

<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/2014/annotation/diagrams/annotation-architecture.svg

<tantek_> cwebber, you can ask the bot for help just by saying: botname, help

Doug_Schepers: work for W3C

<cwebber> aha thanks tantek_

Doug_Schepers: interested in achieving a decentralized architecture with lots of stake holders that gives users control

<jasnell> https://github.com/activitystreams/json-activity

Doug_Schepers: works on Annotations API. Review the diagram to see how it works

<jasnell> Look under agreements folder for owfa docs

<Zakim> tantek_, you wanted to also add that he's interested in distributed annotations, with a different approach.

Doug_Schepers: wants to apply socialwg output for Web annotations

tantek_: you're on!

<botie> i already had it that way, sandro.

<tantek_> Fragmentions - http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmentions

tantek_: adds to Doug's work on annotations, IndieWebCamp Fragmentions

<shepazu> (I don't think they are different, I think they're complementary)

<tantek_> Marginalias - https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia

<cwebber> +q

<sandro> tantek_, best to just type it.

tantek_: IndieWeb community has been working on annotations, with WebMentions and Marginalia

<tantek_> The IndieWeb community has also been working on distributed annotations on the web

<tantek_> with a couple of building blocks

<tantek_> fragmentions - URLs with ## to link to a text on a page

<tantek_> http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmentions

<tantek_> and marginalia

<tantek_> comments in the margins of articles on the web

cwebber: Tsyesika working on pump.io-based API for federation.

<tantek_> discussed and demonstrated: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia

<harry> evanp: Pump.io is a piece of software that does ActivityStreams social server

<harry> ... API similar to things proposed, and I've said we'll make to transition to what we decide in the WG

<cwebber> great :)

<jasnell> And fwiw... There are no known IPR claims on AS 2. Document history is available in IETF doc tracker and git hub, with feedback documented on Activity streams mailing list archive.

<harry> 978?

<cwebber> 978 US?

<harry> yes

<harry> hey lloyd!

<cwebber> no I'm on SIP, I was wondering if it was Tsyesika, but I remember she's also on SIP :)

evanp: 514 is me

<lehawes> i am in 978, but using Google Voice, so may have a different area code

<Tsyesika> I have no idea where I'm dialing in from, i just called in on SIP

<ericmeeks> Hey, we are all about Linked Data and SOcial Standards

Lloyd_Fassett: have worked on linked data and social standards

<ericmeeks> who is this talking

<ericmeeks> ?

ericmeeks: it is Lloyd_Fassett

<ericmeeks> thanks!


<Tsyesika> +q

ericmeeks: we have been installing profiling systems in academia, have adopted linked open data and glued it to social standards
... academics on different systems at different universities are linked
... trying to get them to interact more actively


<lehawes> How can I see what my <old identifier> is so I can assign my nickname to it?

ericmeeks: please contact if interested in linked open data and social software

Arnaud: work at IBM, longtime at W3C
... was asked to provide help in this group
... IBM interest is enterprise-oriented
... some argue that social web exists, but not an open social web
... trying to integrate social software, can't be done without standards

<tantek> evanp - there is an open social web, but it's quite small, or relegated to islands of monocultures.

sandro: work for w3c, not a contact for this group
... working on the crosscloud project
... like webmention

<tantek> … where everyone runs the same software but on different servers

sandro: hope to use other parts
... thanks

<KevinMarks> does w3c allow + in email? It still hates my old account

MarkC: working to integrate solutions between vendors
... seeing this activity move to W3C and alignment with OpenSocial

<sandro> KevinMarks, yes + in email should be fine

MarkC: see what other opportunities exist

<Tsyesika> i might be muted?

<Tsyesika> no idea i called in via sip. I think my call just dropped though >.<

<tantek> "The conference is restricted at this time"

<oshepherd> Tsyesika: SIP seems slightly unreliable. Need to watch out for the -??P<num> on IRC

<jasnell> Would it be possible to ask for people to document in the wiki which existing formats they're using currently. Are they using OpenSocial currently? If so, what parts? Etc

<Arnaud> argh.. this is because we are past the end of our time slot

<tantek> harry, could you extend future telcon reservations with Zakim to be 5 min past end of slot?

<Arnaud> the call isn't ended but you can't join, or join back, anymore

evanp: homework, please get on public mailing list, get on working group through inv exp or organization, outreach to other people who should be involved

<tantek> homework: stay on IRC :)

<tantek> blog about inviting those who work on social web interfaces (both user and tech) to http://www.w3.org/wiki/socialwg

harry: will ask on mailing list for issues around times, and get started

https://www.w3.org/wiki/To_invite is a list for starting to think of people and organizations to invite

<lehawes> exit

harry: we'll see you all next week

Good meeting!

<harry> evanp: want to get folks ready for next week 1) Start reviewing existing social work, esp. data transfer 2) Join WG/IG and 3) invite other people!

<tantek> only ended the meeting ~3 minutes late. not too bad.

harry: thanks for doing it

maybe tantek, evanp and Arnaud can rotate in the future?

<tantek> thanks harry for chairing the telcon. thanks evanp for minuting!

<shepazu> evanp++

<tantek> evanp SGTM

<Arnaud> I think it's good that harry chaired this call

<AdamB> I missed the go around but my focus from Boeing is similar to Arnaud and MarkC

<shepazu> Arnaud, to get process out of the way?

<oshepherd> I'll resubmit my query from earlier (plus a little more content) to the mailing list, so we can at least start thinking about the scope of the API

<tantek> AdamB - it's ok the go around was only in IRC - you can check the logs for that

<shepazu> AdamB, great to have you on board (no pun intended)

<Arnaud> because it's an informal call anyway, and it's a joint WG/IG call

<harry> Apologies AdamB - we had a few area codes where no one responded and if you did SIP, we may have missed you!

<MarkC> AdamB - great to see you here!

<harry> We'll do a proper intro for you next cdall

<AdamB> no worries at all harry

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2014-07-29 21:05:58 $

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Succeeded: s/25th anniversary of the web/20th anniversary of w3c/
Succeeded: s/crosstab (?)/crosscloud/
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Default Present: tantek, +1.559.707.aaaa, +1.559.707.aabb, Doug_Schepers, +1.314.777.aacc, +1.514.525.aadd, hhalpin, +1.541.848.aaee, +1.415.514.aaff, +1.978.238.aagg, Arnaud, my_name, Sandro, +1.646.632.aahh, +1.703.670.aaii, +1.425.736.aajj, jasnell, +1.512.257.aakk, bret, dret, Lloyd_Fassett, ericmeeks, MarkC
Present: tantek +1.559.707.aaaa +1.559.707.aabb Doug_Schepers +1.314.777.aacc +1.514.525.aadd hhalpin +1.541.848.aaee +1.415.514.aaff +1.978.238.aagg Arnaud my_name Sandro +1.646.632.aahh +1.703.670.aaii +1.425.736.aajj jasnell +1.512.257.aakk bret dret Lloyd_Fassett ericmeeks MarkC

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<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting

Got date from IRC log name: 29 Jul 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/07/29-social-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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