<trackbot> Date: 28 July 2014

<richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus

<richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/0055.html

<Stefan> Scribe: Stefan

Rich: we still got alot of to do for element refernces in mapping guide
... first item: michael put proposal out issues/actions when to cklose

<richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/0048.html

<mattking> +1

<richardschwerdtfeger> +1

Janina: valuable to have consisten policy approach

Rich: no objections

<richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: Adopt Michael

<richardschwerdtfeger> ’s proposal on how to deal with open actions and issues and when to close the issues

Rich: first opic: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/651

Issue-651: Should we have more error values for aria-invalid

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/669

Rich: ssue 651 - Should we have more error values for aria-invalid

<clown> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#aria-invalid

Rich: question is do we want to expand values we currently have for aria-invalid?
... issue is maybe we cant pout them correctly
... we might want to have a annotation to point to
... wantr to hear people's opinionm

Matt: anything more would add complexity
... referring to error messages with aria-dscribedby is less complex

Rich: issue is describedby multi-purpose use needs to concatnat all

Matt: I don't know if this is ok for screen readers since we cannot control the selective readout when they are clumped togehter this way

Rich: it is more an override

<richardschwerdtfeger> <span aria-annotatedby=“foo” aria-annotationtype=“error”><input type=“text”></input></span><div id=“foo”>It is Matt’s fault</div>

<richardschwerdtfeger> <input type=“text”aria-annotatedby=“foo” aria-annotationtype=“error” erro-invalid=“true”></input><div id=“foo”>It is Matt’s fault</div>

(discussing several variants where to put the annotatedby)

<jcraig> topic?

<richardschwerdtfeger> <input type=“text”aria-annotatedby=“foo” aria-annotationtype=“error” aria-invalid=“true”></input><div id=“foo”>It is Matt’s fault</div>

<jcraig> issue-651?

<trackbot> issue-651 -- Allow aria-invalid to specify more types of errors including custom errors -- raised

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/651

<richardschwerdtfeger> - Improve Error information conveyance

<richardschwerdtfeger> - Issue 651: Should we have more error values for aria-invalid

<richardschwerdtfeger> - https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/651

<richardschwerdtfeger> - Issue 669: Need to be able to reference the error description

<richardschwerdtfeger> separate from the aria-describedby reference often used for help

<jcraig> issue-669

<trackbot> issue-669 -- Need ability to differentiate and reference error messages on invalid form elements -- raised

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/669

Rch: I on't know how to put all the different error values here

Matt: you are building a relationship type always

clown: i just want to see all

<richardschwerdtfeger> s/on’t/don’t/

Matt: we talked about using annotations for spellinmg an grammar

Joseph: webmail spelling error .. I don'T expect aria-valid for all
... but in a container surrounding the very word I do

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#ariaInvalidUnknown

Joseph: there is mapping for aria-invalid with unknown value

<Zakim> Joseph_Scheuhammer, you wanted to note the core mapping guide has an entry aria-invalid for "unknown" value.

<clown> <input type=“text” aria-invalid=“It is Matt's fault”></input>

Matt: annotation is different from invalid messages

<clown> <input type=“text” aria-invalid=“true” aria-invalidDesc="foo"></input><div id="foo">It is Matt's fault</div>

<clown> ?

<Birkir> Mine is the 919 number, sorry guys .. I will make sure to free up client meetings from 12:30 onwards EST, they always run over

Rich: try to minimize relationship to API on platforms
... we could direct AT vendors to read error first then other descriptions

Matt: we don't know how annotated is mapped to the API's

Rich: we have annotation type, we have relationships, we can reuse relationships and put type in as an error
... you have to maintain lists of source and targets, on some platforms it is not clear what the relationship is
... do people want to add new relationship to platforms?

jcraig: point out again, .1 release, we should be strict about what we add
... only add things to a point-oine (.1) release if it's an error, or a major accessibility holes in existing applications and there is already existing in platform api to support
... we should not add any features that require api extensions, because that would require revs of OS APIs and ATs

Rich: we added rich text editing ....
... .. expected to be done end of 2016

Matt: we should have sample implementation of annotadedby

Rich: put it on hold or move on?

<clown> issue-651?

<trackbot> issue-651 -- Allow aria-invalid to specify more types of errors including custom errors -- raised

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/651

annotation concept was bound to rich text editing

Birkir: put focus on error messages and activation brings yoiu on associated form field - lot of work
... aria-invalid has to put to an eror messge somewhere on the screen

Rich: IBM Forms Experience Builder team felt the same way

Matt: error icons can be made functional - pattern-like
... pointing on activation to sources of informations

jamesc: useful patterns are the ones that are established

+q

+q

jcraig: don't want of add new api without knowing to be absolutely sure

<clown> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#aria-invalid

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#ariaInvalidUnknown

<jcraig> Any string, as long as it has no spaces or special characters

<jcraig> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/complete#valuetype_token

<jcraig> aria-invalid="foo bar" would be invalid, so would "foo$%#bar", so would "it's matt's fault"

<jcraig> aria-invalid="foo" is valid though

<jcraig> it maps to aria-valid="true" if the UA does not recognize the "foo" token

ria-invalid="warning" is on my wish list

jcraig: mybe open up as a token list
... older browseer s will still get true

Birkir: could we create a mapping on the error message ittself?

Rich: challenge is pointing to error descriptiuon + help text how to sort them out?

<clown> <input type="text" aria-invalid="It is Matt's fault"></input>

clown: will put the string into the AXValue
... using the acc. inspector
... bug? :)

Rich: role=error maybe this is way to do it
... anything related in HTML5 to error messages? .. Seems not. (Matt replied)
... can people put this on their forms teams and get some opinions?

I'd like to have allowed token values of "warning" and "info" in the list for aria-invalid

Rich: i'd like to make attempt to trow options out of the list of discussed things ...
... we go back to the forms teams and check with them what they need

<jcraig> issue-649?

<trackbot> issue-649 -- Need way for controls to indicate that they start a media session such as audio or video, so that a screen reader can know to NOT speak over the beginning of the media when the control is activated. -- raised

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/649

<richardschwerdtfeger> Issue 649: Need way for controls to indicate that they start a media

<richardschwerdtfeger> session such as audio or video

<richardschwerdtfeger> - https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/649

<jcraig> UIAccessibility API: UIAccessibilityTraits UIAccessibilityTraitStartsMediaSession;

jcraig: issue here is if you play play button to start audio/video it is overlayed by screen reader voicing .. we need special trait to indicate such kind of buttons to screen reader
... trait is not a property
... most equivalent to a token

+q

Rich: which roles should support this james?

jcraig: at least button

Birkir: i like the feature it can be useful sometimes but is it really so annoying the add. speech output?

jcraig: sometimes yes, depends on the number of info that is spoken in some cases

Rich: james, can you write proposal what roles need this extensions?

Matt: 80% implementation on AT side .. in accessible object ..

<jcraig> ACTION: add proposal for aria-startsmedia; determine what roles this would apply to, as well as boolean versus token decision: true/false, or none/audio/video, etc? [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/28-aria-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Error finding 'add'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.

<clown> <a href="url" aria-startsmedia="true'>…</a>

<jcraig> ACTION: jcraig to add proposal for aria-startsmedia; determine what roles this would apply to, as well as boolean versus token decision: true/false, or none/audio/video, etc? [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/28-aria-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1491 - Add proposal for aria-startsmedia; determine what roles this would apply to, as well as boolean versus token decision: true/false, or none/audio/video, etc? [on James Craig - due 2014-08-04].

<Stefan_> Scribe: Stefan

<Stefan_> sorry .. lost connection

<Stefan_> James: took proposal

<jcraig> trackbot associate action-1491 with issue-649

<trackbot> action-1491 (Add proposal for aria-startsmedia; determine what roles this would apply to, as well as boolean versus token decision: true/false, or none/audio/video, etc?) associated with issue-649.

<Stefan_> Scribe: Stefan_

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138  of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/RESOLUTION: Adopt Michael//
Succeeded: s/Issue 651: Should we have more error values for aria-invalid/topic: Issue-651: Should we have more error values for aria-invalid/
FAILED: s/on’t/don’t/
Succeeded: s/annotaded/annotated/
Succeeded: s/major holes already existing in platform api's/only add things to a point-oine (.1) release if it's an error, or a major accessibility holes in existing applications and there is already existing in platform api to support/
Succeeded: s/we should not add too many features that require api extensions/we should not add any features that require api extensions, because that would require revs of OS APIs and ATs/
Succeeded: s/form builder/Forms Experience Builder/
Found Scribe: Stefan
Inferring ScribeNick: Stefan
Found Scribe: Stefan
Found Scribe: Stefan_
Inferring ScribeNick: Stefan_
Scribes: Stefan, Stefan_
ScribeNicks: Stefan, Stefan_

WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: Apple Birkir Bryan_Garaventa GVoice IPcaller James Joseph Joseph_Scheuhammer LJWatson Leonie Matt MichaelC Michael_Cooper P2 P9 Rch Rich Rich_Schwerdtfeger SAP Stefan Stefan_ Stefan_Schnabel Susann_Keohane aaaa aabb aacc aria bgaraventa1979 clown https jamesc janina jcraig joined mattking richardschwerdtfeger trackbot
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        <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
        <dbooth> Present+ amy

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/0055.html
Found Date: 28 Jul 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/07/28-aria-minutes.html
People with action items: add jcraig

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