<trackbot> Date: 17 July 2014

<scribe> ScribeNick: krit

ScribeNick krit

list object method issues

heycam: there are some issue that I wanted to bring up
... bringing back up tpday
... no spec changes till today
... FF should align to something
... in the spec, the methods on the list types LengthList… if you call with Length object and it is owned from another element
... what should happen
... the spec says it should be removed from the other link

*list

heycam: spec does not say if you try to append a baseVal or animVal from another element

krit: not sure what you mean

<heycam> textElement.x.baseVal.appendItem(rectElement.x.baseVal)

heycam: the spec says for lists but not for types like the case above

krit: did yo check browsers

heycam: browsers don’t agree

<heycam> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-svg-wg/2014JulSep/0001.html

heycam: IE is most consistent
... nobody says what the spec says
... no browser removed elements from another list

krit: sure about that? We had tests in WebKit

heycam: I should test that as welll
... the test here was for SVGLength
... tried to append that to a list
... and the other way around
... for those cases (property on element) no browsers appends the object to the list but creates a copy (at least IE)
... FF adds a reference to the list… two places reference to the same SVGLength
... for the case where SVGLength is in a list, we create a copy before adding it to baseVal
... Safari and Blink crashed both on the last case
... I think we want to follow IEs behavior… it is most consistent

<ChrisL> It *is* important to make the SVG DOM better. It is the number one complaint

krit: I am fine with following IE, independent of consistency
... who is complaining

ChrisL: We had a lot of complains about how SVG DOM works in general

heycam: did not get manually created Lists, SVGLength values but should do that
... are you ok with resolving all 4 parts of the proposels

krit: how about removing SVGLength from animVal list and appending it somewhere else?

heycam: that is the last item… IE and FF still create a copy

krit: did you try removing elements form animVal lists?

heycam: not yet
... so krit, you want to copy even on baseVal lists?
... As long as I can create SVGLengh and append it to a list I want to keep reference
... between baseVal lists, I am probably fine to create copies as well
... I would limit the resolution to the 4 cases for now
... any objections to the proposed behavior of creating copies for the 4 cases in my demo?

ChrisL: seems ok for me

RESOLUTION: Appending an SVG item that is owned by another item should create a copy before appending

<scribe> ACTION: heycam Edit spec: Appending an SVG item that is owned by another item should create a copy before appending [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-3634 - Edit spec: appending an svg item that is owned by another item should create a copy before appending [on Cameron McCormack - due 2014-07-24].

A11Y TF

<heycam> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/work-statement

heycam: I was send a draft of the charter for this TF
... didn’t review unless recently
... here it is
... you probably didn’t look at it yet
... Main issue: under which WG should it live
... the document says jointly in SVG and A11Y group

<ChrisL> joint (like FX) and separate ml seems fine

heycam: as TF product and comments go to the mailing list of this TF
... most of it describes the mapping guide for SVG elements to roles
... that is the main document

krit: what else is on the scope

<ChrisL> "The primary tool for providing feedback to the SVG WG is Bugzilla." is that true/desireable?

heycam: a11y notes
... but not part of the TF

ChrisL: TF can’t add anything to the scope that isn’t already in the scope of all participating WGs
... so we need to make sure that the important things are in the scope of the SG wG

heycam: also in the charta: weekly tel conferences

ChrisL: having a situation where ppl get scared by penalties and don’t participate isn’t good same where it is not enforced like FX TF and the there is no joint work all together

<ChrisL> +1 to Doug

<ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/work-statement

[general discussion about imporatance about TF chartas ]

shepazu: there is this mapping document with a11y requirements…. but is that all we can do?

rich: I agree… we can do more than that

ChrisL: it shouldn’t be to narrow… the scope should be broader...
... addresses are ppl implementing and ppl creating accessible documents

rich: I agree

ChrisL: speaking about open: WPS is a member only group...

shepazu: not anymore

<ChrisL> woohoo!

rich: All aria is done in the open same for implementation guides

ChrisL: woohoo!

shepazu: I might be wrong

<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/charter201006

ChrisL: it is chartered as a members only group but decides to do specs open

heycam: at least the TF charter has an open mailing list

ChrisL: th echarter needs to specifically say it is public

shepazu: and broader scope

heycam: do TF need to have a staff contact

ChrisL: not really

heycam: it says it needs to be decided who chairs
... I’ll reply with the two requests from above

<ChrisL> list of participants leads to a "not authorized" page

SVG WG charta

ChrisL: just want to make sure that we have the right names for a11y specs

rich: yeah, I need to check who is working on the 2nd document
... we have authoring user guide… we will have one for HTML… shepazu do you want to do the one for SVG?

shepazu: I think I can tag all that

<ChrisL> heycam I saw your email with feedback, krit yours too. I will fold in those edits after the call

<heycam> ChrisL, thanks

shepazu: I would rather want to have a document on WPD instead of a static document

heycam: when do we need to send the last comments?

ChrisL: today!
... (or by Tuesday)

<ChrisL> <connector><fallback>Please use a browser that supports Connectors</fallback> stuff </connector>

shepazu: What do you think about CC-BY license?
...

<ChrisL> difference is that it requires attribution

heycam: IIRC David Baron has problems with CC-By

shepazu: Some ppl believe that CC=By is not compatible with GPL
... that is Mozilla’s lawyer interpretation but not of everyone

<ChrisL> reasonable legal opinion disagrees that CC-By is not compatible with GPL

krit: we use SVG2 on base of SVG 1.1… which is licensed with W3C license… we can change it but AC might push back

ChrisL: please send feedback to chart before tuesday

trackbot, make minutes

<trackbot> Sorry, krit, I don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.

trackbot, make minutes

<trackbot> Sorry, krit, I don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/I I I I got.. I I/ I think I can tag all that/
Succeeded: s/CC/CC-BY/
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Found ScribeNick: krit
Inferring Scribes: krit
Default Present: krit, [IPcaller], heycam, birtles, Smailus, nikos__, +33.9.75.61.aaaa, Tav, stakagi, ChrisL, Doug_Schepers, [IBM]
Present: krit [IPcaller] heycam birtles Smailus nikos__ +33.9.75.61.aaaa Tav stakagi ChrisL Doug_Schepers [IBM]
Regrets: Erik
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2014JulSep/0009.html
Found Date: 17 Jul 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/07/17-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: heycam

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