See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 08 July 2014
<clown> agenda: this
<davidb> i'll be a bit late, someone is squatting in my phone rom
<davidb> room
<scribe> scribe: Joanmarie_Diggs
<clown> action-1115?
<trackbot> action-1115 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Find reference in MSAA spec that says you can't put anything in the role property except roles that are defined by the MSAA spec -- due 2014-07-08 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1115
JS: I had to make a change to the document so I marked the action pending review.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#mapping_role
JS: The above URL gets you
close.
... In section 5.4, look for item 5
... The MSAA bullet says "not supported". I added
... a link to the document and this statement
<clown> User agents MUST NOT expose a custom role in MSAA's accRole property.
JS: David, that is the law from Microsoft
DB: I will talk this over with Alex
JS: So we'll leave this pending
review?
... It seems that the documentation is pretty clear.
RS: That has been violated for decades.
DB: I've been told by some of the
Windows AT vendors that if we take this out, it won't break
things.
... So maybe IA2 has made this doable.
JS: What this is about is if you have a WAI ARIA role string that doesn't match the API, and you have a way to expose it, you should do so. But MSAA doesn't have such a way.
DB: I'd prefer the MUST NOT not be there.
JS: Cynthia has stated that it is not a SHOULD, but I'd like her opinion.
DB: I have a patch that removes it. But I want to check with Alex first.
<clown> action-980?
<trackbot> action-980 -- David Bolter to Define mappings for managed aria related states: aria-setsize, aria-posinset, arla-level, focused, focusable with reference to section 5.5 bullet 1 of the UAIG. -- due 2014-07-01 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980
DB: I'm aware of this item.
... I have not yet had the opportunity to do it and would like
a little more time.
JS: This is associated with ARIA 1.1, but I don't see any issue associated with it.
<clown> action-1450?
<trackbot> action-1450 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Provide link to uia express for accessibility api reference in section 3 of caam -- due 2014-07-08 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1450
JS: Related URLs are
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#intro_aapi
JS: The link to UIA Express has been added in section 1.1 Accessibility APIs
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#glossary
JS: I should contact the people
who maintain the bibliographic references and ask them to add
this one.
... The first term in the glossary is the Accessibility APIs.
So I added a reference there too.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#glossary
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#intro_aapi
CS: That looks fine.
JS: We can close this action.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#mapping_role
JS: (Reviews item 1)
RS: I suspect the reason is the custom roles don't get mapped over correctly, right?
CS: This has never been supported.
DB: Alex and I would prefer
SHOULD NOT rather than MUST NOT.
... And the reality is that only Firefox is doing this,
right?
JS: What does Chrome do on Windows?
DB: I'm not sure, though they tend to be consistent with what Firefox does.
JS: Has this hack ever broken anything?
DB: I don't believe so.
CS: I need to run this by some people. My preference is MUST NOT.
DB: If there is a technical reason, then we should keep the MUST NOT.
CS: MSAA is deprecated.
JS: I will leave this open.
CS: You can give me an action to run the MUST NOT vs SHOULD NOT by people.
<clown> ACTION: Cynthia to check with IE team whether statement re: ACTION-1115, "User agents MUST NOT expose a custom role in MSAA's accRole property." can be a SHOULD NOT. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/08-aapi-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1478 - Check with ie team whether statement re: action-1115, "user agents must not expose a custom role in msaa's accrole property." can be a should not. [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2014-07-15].
<clown> action-1478?
<trackbot> action-1478 -- Cynthia Shelly to Check with ie team whether statement re: action-1115, "user agents must not expose a custom role in msaa's accrole property." can be a should not. -- due 2014-07-15 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1478
Zakim take up item 3
<clown> action-1104?
<trackbot> action-1104 -- Cynthia Shelly to Define what the accessibility API mapping is for UIA on aria-describedby in section 5.5.1 table when the element does not exist in the accessibility tree such as when css: display:none applies -- due 2014-06-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1104
CS: I will spend some time on actions in the next couple of weeks.
RS: Thank you for updating the focus section so that it's more generic.
JS: I am making that whole section more generic.
RS: This is good.
<clown> action-1372?
<trackbot> action-1372 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a test case, if there is none, to test the rowgroup role -- due 2014-07-01 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1372
<clown> issue-635?
<trackbot> issue-635 -- Determine if uaig mappings for rowgroup are correct -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/635
JS: This is related to
issue-635
... We needed a test case specifically for rowgroup so we can
customize the mappings and be sure they are right.
CS: I will work on this soon.
<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23
<clown> action-967?
<trackbot> action-967 -- Janina Sajka to work with Rich to work with DAISY establish a structural navigation model for ARIA landmarks related to comment 362 -- due 2014-01-08 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/967
<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/comments/details?comment_id=362
Janina: I think this will be covered by the new roles which will be discussed by the epub group.
RS: All the roles related to ebooks will be delivered through the ARIA role attribute.
JS: So this issue can be closed as being taken up by epub.
Janina: They really want support in the HTML validator.
RS: We have a fallback mechanism in the role attributes, so if it's not something the browser knows about it's not terrible.
Janina: But I think they still
want the validator to pass and flag these roles.
... And I don't think this is automatic.
(Group agrees to close this)
<clown> action-1280?
<trackbot> action-1280 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Take a first pass at pulling aria core implementation out of aria UAIG -- due 2013-10-25 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1280
RS: We already have a first draft.
JS: And I'm already working on the keyboard nav and focus section.
Janina: IndieUI-ify it.
JS: It's now closed.
RS: I'm writing the SVG2 mapping spec.
JS: All the table entries now have IDs. But I don't think it happened in time for the heartbeat.
<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23
<clown> action-1258?
<trackbot> action-1258 -- Jon Gunderson to Write some uaig test cases and expected results starting with test case 102 and working backward -- due 2013-09-16 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1258
RS: Can we just close action 1258?
JS: I think Jon did this with his
big ramp up to running the test cases.
... Closed.
<clown> action-980?
<trackbot> action-980 -- David Bolter to Define mappings for managed aria related states: aria-setsize, aria-posinset, arla-level, focused, focusable with reference to section 5.5 bullet 1 of the UAIG. -- due 2014-07-22 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980
RS: We don't have action-980 done yet?
DB: I think you are waiting on me for that one?
JS: We just changed the due date.
<clown> action-1279?
<trackbot> action-1279 -- Shane McCarron to Talk to mobile manufacturers about how to include their apis -- due 2013-10-25 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1279
RS: Action 1279 is one we should
really get started on.
... We don't have any mobile API mappings.
... This is really important.
... I don't know if Shane is the right guy to have this.
JS: It looks like this used to be associated with the spec, but James Craig seems to have moved it.
RS: I think the person you might want to reach out to first is James Craig when he gets back from vacation.
CS: And google?
RS: Dominic would know the right person.
CS: And BlackBerry?
RS: Do you do anything different for mobile?
CS: I would need to check.
Janina: It's probably smart to list it regardless.
RS: Larry should be pretty familiar with it since he worked on narrator for mobile.
action-1320
<trackbot> action-1320 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Consider mapping the "offscreen" api properties in the situation of aria-hidden="false" on non-rendered elements. -- due 2014-12-23 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1320
<clown> action-1320?
<trackbot> action-1320 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Consider mapping the "offscreen" api properties in the situation of aria-hidden="false" on non-rendered elements. -- due 2014-12-23 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1320
DB: This is pretty complex.
JS: My impression from bugzilla
discussions at Mozilla is that they might not change their
minds.
... I offered that whatever you do for offscreen could also be
used for aria-hidden=false
... But Alex didn't seem to want to do this.
DB: And Alex would like more members.
CS: Does this mean IA2 is in active development again?
Group: Yes!
(Group discusses the desire to have the Accessibility APIs converge)
RS: ARIA 2 might be the right time to do this.
<clown> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/0007.html
BG: Describes what is in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/0007.html
CS: That sounds like a bug.
BG: I'll file it if you tell me where to do so.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#keyboard-focus_tabindex
<cyns> IE bugs go here http://connect.microsoft.com/ie
RS: Tab index is read/write in
HTML5.
... I need to talk to Steve about this.
JS: If you have rotating tabs, you might want to set the value to -1.
<clown> jQuery.attr ('tabindex', −1)
who as aaaa?
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/item 1 with Cynthia/item 1/ No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: joanie Found Scribe: Joanmarie_Diggs Default Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, janina_, +1.416.848.aaaa, David_Bolter, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, cyns Present: +1.416.848.aaaa Bryan_Garaventa Cynthia_Shelly David_Bolter Joanmarie_Diggs Joseph_Scheuhammer Rich_Schwerdtfeger janina_ Found Date: 08 Jul 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/07/08-aapi-minutes.html People with action items: cynthia WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]