See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 16 June 2014
<richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
<richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jun/0091.html
<richardschwerdtfeger> scribe: mattking
<scribe> scribe: matt_king
<scribe> scribe: mattking
JS: html5 2nd last call will
happen this week and then could go to Proposed Recommendation
after that
... We are not sure that the strong semantics are testable as
stated.
<clown> http://htmlwg.org/heartbeat/WD-html5-20140617/dom.html#sec-strong-native-semantics
JS: So perhaps it should be
informational in html5 and then normative at a later
time.
... Perhpas the authoring guidance should be normative and the
UA guidance should be informative
<richardschwerdtfeger> ack
RS: We can test the restrictions
on which roles on which elements
... those most important part to test; can be done with
validators.
... We definitely need a MUST on those restrictions.
<richardschwerdtfeger> ack
<clown> http://htmlwg.org/heartbeat/WD-html5-20140617/dom.html#sec-implicit-aria-semantics
<SteveF> http://stevefaulkner.github.io/html-mapping-tests/
SF: Strong native semantics
define author restrictions. Implicit semantics define UA
requirements for mapping native elements to ARIA roles.
... Over weekend wrote test cases for implicit semantics.
... which are currently MMUSTS in html5 spec
FS: dialog and details are in 5.1 not 5
RS: however, separater and image could be a problem.
SF: Most of the issues are not
contraversial; requirements are clear.
... My test table currently includes some elements with no
implementation reqs; I will remove those. I will also remove
things not in html5.
... If you take those things out, about 90% pass.
... Need to correct heading mapping in last call.
RS: surprised link didn't pass.
SF: the link element was
mistakenly mapped to the link role in aria.
... This the link ement, not the anchor element.
JS: If Steve gets the bugs filed and they get resolved, what should the status be? Normative or informative?
RS: If they get resolved, we could keep it as normative.
SF: for the limited requirements that html 5 makes, we are probably safe keeping this normative. Keep in mind, there are many other requirements that the html5 spec does not cover, eg, name calculation.
JS: Should we mark this at risk?
SF: Because number issues is
small, we should aim for getting them resolved. We do not have
to put the whole section at risk due to these issues.
... In some cases there is "no role" but there is still an
attribute, eg read-only.
RS: When we say there is no mapping, that means there is no required mapping, right?
<SteveF> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/dom.html#concept-role-none
SF: That link points to the
meaning of "no role" in html 5.
... I will clean up the table and then we can have another
look.
JS: Should I withdraw the pref to put this at risk?
MC: It does not hurt to continue marking it at risk. That can push getting the defects resolved.
RS: Does that force them to go back to last call?
MC: You have to say what will be done if risk condition is met.
JS: The risk response could be to mark it informative rather than striking it.
RS: we need to make sure the info
that is there is accurate even if it is informative.
... For example, the heading not having a mapping.
SF: It is still accurate, it just
means there is not a required mapping.
... 5.1 spec still maps Hn to heading and aria-level n
... The vast majority pass. We could just pull the specific
assertions that fail by making those at risk.
JS: we have only hours to do that.
SF: I will provide Janina with the list of assertions that are potentially at risk.
JN: how does it work when we add
new roles to ARIA?
... What about using role none in place of presentation?
... does that specifically have to be written into the html 5
spec?
... The way this is written in html5, we can not use new roles
because the way this is written.
MC: We could have them make it clear that it is referencing aria 1.0 and then add some language that would give us some wiggle room for later versions.
<SteveF> html is in a dev continuous cycle they can be added to 5.1/5.2 etc
JN: Who is reviewing this. Brian posted several issues.
<jamesn> uh oh
<richardschwerdtfeger> i am now on mute
<clown> issue-655?
<trackbot> issue-655 -- Consider creating annotations roles for comments, spell-check errors, etc -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/655
<cgallello> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/655
issue-655?
<trackbot> issue-655 -- Consider creating annotations roles for comments, spell-check errors, etc -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/655
<cgallello> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2014AprJun/0161.html
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2014AprJun/0161.html
CG: attributes on annotated elements and attribs on anotation elements are described in the e-mail post.
<jamesn> can we add an annotation type of "moreinfo"?
CG: An onotated element would preserve role of the element; the annotation is an attrib.
<clown> <span aria-annotationtype="moreinfo"> … ?
JN: Can we have an annotation type of something like "more info"?
RS: I would like something other than "true"; something like "author defined".
<cgallello> I lost audio
RS: for aria-annotationtype, proposing that instead of "true" we have a value like "Custom".
JN: Proposing another like "MoreInfo"
MK: Could make it aria-hasannotation then true makes sense
CG: Could be aria-annotation
<clown> <span aria-hasannotation="comment" aria-annotatedby="foo"> …. <p id="foo">This is the annotations</p>
<clown> ?
CG: aria-hasannotation well say
if there is an annotation and its type. This is on the element
that is annotated.
... aria-annotatedby would point to the annotation.
<richardschwerdtfeger> <span aria-hasannotation=“insertion”><span aria-hasannotation="comment" aria-annotatedby="foo">Some text</span></span> …. <p id="foo">
CG: Annotations may not be in the DOM at the time doc is loaded, eg, Word online may have ref to a footnote but foot note is loaded on demand.
<cgallello> <span aria-hasannotation="comment footnote" aria-annotatedby="commentspan1 footnotespan1">
CG: could put multiple annotation types on the aria-hasannotation attrib
and the multiple ids and they would need to be in same order.
CG: that was proposed.
<cgallello> <span aria-hasannotation="comment " aria-annotatedby="commentspan1"> <span aria-hasannotation="footnote" aria-annotatedby="footnotespan1">
CG: alternatively could wrap w/multiple spans
RS: Better to use the layered spans
MK: If you have a space delimted list, then making a mod, e.g., deleting onw of the annotations, would require modifying the attrib, which would be unreliable.
RS: do we need a false?
<clown> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#aria-invalid
Joanie: Convenient for scripting for turning it off; equals undefined.
RESOLUTION: s/CS:/CS:/
<richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: add aria-hasannotation attribute with values: comment, footnote, endnote, reference, insertion, deletion, modification, true, false, more where aria-hasannotation has only one value at a time
<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: jcraig add aria-hasannotation attribute with values: comment, footnote, endnote, reference, insertion, deletion, modification, true, false, more where aria-hasannotation has only one value at a time [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-aria-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1454 - Add aria-hasannotation attribute with values: comment, footnote, endnote, reference, insertion, deletion, modification, true, false, more where aria-hasannotation has only one value at a time [on James Craig - due 2014-06-23].
<clown> Note that the email for that action will go to just the private list.
RS: should it refer to one or multiple refs in aria-annotatedby?
<richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: aria-annotatedby where it takes IDREFS as a value and must only be applied when that same element has aria-hasannotation
<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: jcraig add aria-annotatedby where it takes IDREFS as a value and must only be applied when that same element has aria-hasannotation [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-aria-minutes.html#action02]
<SteveF> janina:rich http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2014Jun/0045.html
<SteveF> results updated and at risk email sent
<MichaelC> actio: jcraig to add aria-annotatedby where it takes IDREFS as a value and must only be applied when that same element has aria-hasannotation
<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: jcraig to add aria-annotatedby where it takes IDREFS as a value and must only be applied when that same element has aria-hasannotation [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-aria-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1455 - Add aria-annotatedby where it takes idrefs as a value and must only be applied when that same element has aria-hasannotation [on James Craig - due 2014-06-23].
<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: galello provide defintions in action 1454 for each of the annotation types [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-aria-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Error finding 'galello'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.
<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: gallello provide defintions in action 1454 for each of the annotation types [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-aria-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1456 - Provide defintions in action 1454 for each of the annotation types [on Christopher Gallello - due 2014-06-23].
<richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: close issue 655 with actions 1454-1456
<clown> FWIW: bugzilla about annotaions for mapping guides: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26106
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/onhours/only hours/ Succeeded: s/Joanie:/CS:/ Found Scribe: mattking Inferring ScribeNick: mattking Found Scribe: matt_king Found Scribe: mattking Inferring ScribeNick: mattking Scribes: mattking, matt_king Default Present: Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Janina, SteveF, +1.541.678.aaaa, +1.603.882.aabb, Matt_King, Joanie_Diggs, Jon_Gunderson, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Chris_Gallello, James_Nurthen, LJWatson, +1.215.518.aacc, [Microsoft] Present: Rich_Schwerdtfeger Michael_Cooper Janina SteveF +1.541.678.aaaa +1.603.882.aabb Matt_King Joanie_Diggs Jon_Gunderson Joseph_Scheuhammer Chris_Gallello James_Nurthen LJWatson +1.215.518.aacc [Microsoft] Found Date: 16 Jun 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-aria-minutes.html People with action items: galello gallello jcraig WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]