See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 09 June 2014
<richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
<richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jun/0035.html
<clown> richardschwerdtfeger: the history of changes to the spec: https://github.com/w3c/aria/commits/June_2014_TR/spec
<richardschwerdtfeger> scribe: Matt
<richardschwerdtfeger> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/June_2014_TR/spec/aria.html
RS: posinset and setsize for tabs should be called out since people have been asking
<richardschwerdtfeger> RS: in the Status of This Document
JC: Alex has brought concerns with describedat; concerns I share. So I added editorial note to that section.
<clown> just in case it's relevant, the change log for the spec: http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/June_2014_TR/spec/aria.html#changelog
<jcraig> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#aria-describedat
<jcraig> Req of concern: User agents should provide a device-independent mechanism to allow a user to navigate the user agent to content referenced by the @aria-describedat attribute. User agents should also provide a device-independent mechanism to return the user's focus from the descriptive content view to the original content view. For example, a user agent may provide access to the document or document fragment referenced by the the @aria-describedat attribute in a
<jcraig> contextual menu associated with the object.
<jcraig> JC 2014-06-03. The previous paragraph may be at-risk. Implementors from Mozilla, Google, and Apple have expressed concern over the RFC-2119 "should" requirement above: If the statement remains as-is, @aria-describedat would break the ARIA pattern to not affect mainstream UI. Dominic M. mentioned that if this patterned changed, developers may become more "suspicious of ARIA and not want to apply simple accessibility bug fixes without worrying about the implications
<jcraig> for their design." Alex S. said, UI-based requirements "should be rather part of HTML than ARIA."
JC: Concern is that the is the first ARIA requirement that modifies user experience.
RS: this is a should, not a must.
JC: It is a concern if it is a should. we could change it to a MAY.
CS: I agree this is a first for
ARIA; I believe it is a good change.
... Perhaps it should even be a MUST.
RS: Cynthia, can you get input from the IE team.
JC: We have no plans to implement the UI piece of this in webkit.
CS: I would like to add some other content to the editorial note that reflects other views.
RS: I see this as very likely showing up in some epub readers.
<richardschwerdtfeger> RS: seeing the Tie between Readium, IDPF, and the Diagram project
JC: With SVG, we can now imbed accessible descriptions both in vector and raster images and make them directly accessible without longdesc or describedat.
CS: I will give content to James today to put in the note.
<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Cynthia Get feedback on use of ARIA to drive UI changes in the browser as a “SHOULD” from the IE team [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/09-aria-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1451 - Get feedback on use of aria to drive ui changes in the browser as a “should” from the ie team [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2014-06-16].
<jcraig> action-1451: http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#aria-describedat
<trackbot> Notes added to action-1451 Get feedback on use of aria to drive ui changes in the browser as a “should” from the ie team.
Joseph: aaria-checked removed
from option; now there is some pushback and I didn't make the
change to the guide
... so now guide and mapping may be out of sync
... this is for situations where selections and checked are
orthoganal
BG: there is a windows component on msdn where for checkable listbox
<bgaraventa1979> Win UI equiv http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.windows.forms.checkedlistbox(v=vs.110).aspx
Joanie: If there is nothing definitely prohibiting selection and check from being separate, then we would need to support it. Even if it is not good design.
Discussion of JQS UI
RS: We are still looking for use cases where check and selection are independent and have spearate meanings.
MK: There could be use cases where checking refers to something like setting a preference and selection is selection for an operation.
JC: That could be done with a
grid where the element that controls selection is
separate.
... we can use checked on menuitemradio
RS: this change is not for
menuitems
... Is it for treeitem?
JC: treeitem is really no different from option.
RS: we might break some things in trees; need to investigate.
CS: What is motiviation for change?
JC: For validation to avoid using
the wrong state. Checked and selected are not equivalent and an
autor error can make things not work correctly.
... one example is radio buttons
RS: Is it removed from implementation guide?
Joseph: it is still in. I was
prepared to remove but have not done it.
... Alex plans to ignore aria-checked on option.
JC: WebKit does as well.
<bgaraventa1979> +q
JC: aria-checked was in the list of supported states for option because of inheritence but it didn't carry any meaning in so is ignored.
BG: what about partially checked
CS: this is common in setup for windows programs
<jcraig> screen shot http://i.msdn.microsoft.com/ff956194.Waldman_Figure1_hires(en-us,MSDN.10).jpg
<jcraig> mixed: http://i.technet.microsoft.com/dynimg/IC562743.png
<joanie> http://csharp.net-informations.com/gui/cs-checkedlistbox.htm
Joanie: this example with days of
the week has some partially checked items in a listbox
... Tuesday is partially checked.
JC: propose that we remove selected from radio and checkbox but leave checked on option
<jcraig> add checked back to option, which will inherit to treeitem
<jcraig> leave radio and checkbox unchanged in the spec (no longer has aria-selected in aria 1.1)
RESOLUTION: in spec, restore aria-checked to option role. In implementation guide, remove optional mapping of aria-selected from radio and menuitemradio.
<jcraig> ACTION: jcraig to add aria-checked back to option, and let it inherit to treeitem [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/09-aria-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1452 - Add aria-checked back to option, and let it inherit to treeitem [on James Craig - due 2014-06-16].
<joanie> :)
<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testresults?testsuite_id=1&testcase_id=202
<jcraig> ACTION: joseph to remove optional text about mapping aria-checked on checkbox/radio [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/09-aria-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1453 - Remove optional text about mapping aria-checked on checkbox/radio [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2014-06-16].
<jcraig> action-1452? action-1453?
<jcraig> action-1452?
<trackbot> action-1452 -- James Craig to Add aria-checked back to option, and let it inherit to treeitem -- due 2014-06-16 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1452
<jcraig> action-1453?
<trackbot> action-1453 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Remove optional text about mapping aria-checked on checkbox/radio -- due 2014-06-16 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1453
<joanie> jcraig: link please?
<clown> #aapi
<joanie> It's jcraig's birthday? Happy Birthday!!
zakim bye
<jcraig> happy belated to james n, too
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/buide/guide/ Succeeded: s/we do /WebKit does / No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: mattking Found Scribe: Matt Default Present: +1.603.882.aaaa, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, jcraig, Joseph_Scheuhammer, +1.541.678.aabb, Matt, Cynthia_Shelly, James_Nurthen Present: +1.603.882.aaaa Rich_Schwerdtfeger jcraig Joseph_Scheuhammer +1.541.678.aabb Matt Cynthia_Shelly James_Nurthen Found Date: 09 Jun 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/06/09-aria-minutes.html People with action items: cynthia jcraig joseph WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]
