W3C

- DRAFT -

Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

22 May 2014

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
pal, nigel, mike, jdsmith, frans
Regrets
glenn
Chair
nigel
Scribe
nigel

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 22 May 2014

<scribe> scribeNick: nigel

MPEG liaison re MIME Codecs parameter

nigel: The thread has been quite hard to follow

mike: Everything that's in MPEG related to TTML came from the CFF work. It would be helpful to go through what we did and wanted to achieve, to clarify the current state.
... Maybe if Dave and/or Cyril can join us they can capture what the MPEG request is.

nigel: I managed to add to issue-305 the topic areas and Mike's sense of priority/ordering on them but still need to tease requirements out if I can.

mike: It'll be tough because lots of it stems from DECE work that ended up in MPEG and that's not on the thread at all.
... Maybe I should start drafting something and then nigel and I can see if we have everything that we know of covered, as a good starting point.
... Some of the reasons I've been remembering are the inability to represent strict subsets of TTML features - you're forced into extension namespace which then implies lack of compatibility with TTML features
... which there's no way to do today. That's an open issue with the profile mechanism.
... These gaps/errors in the profile mechanism as currently defined lead to the current MPEG solution.

pal: I'd encourage the two of you to get together so that the effort to capture the requirement does capture the background.

mike: For example tts:colour - it's an unresolved issue that a strict subset of the TTML feature can not be defined.

pal: We discussed this in Shenzhen but not sure if there's a resolution.

nigel: So to summarise there's no way to define a feature as a strict subset of another feature.

mike: Without going to incredibly fine grained feature definitions this can't be done.
... There should be an action item if there isn't one to go through all the features and check that they match the prose in TTML.

nigel: That's related to the work needed to define tests, if we continue with the original approach.

<scribe> ACTION: mike Describe the history for how we got to the signalling needed for MPEG that came from DECE for ISSUE-305. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-tt-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-290 - Describe the history for how we got to the signalling needed for mpeg that came from dece for issue-305. [on Mike Dolan - due 2014-05-29].

action-290: Nigel to add any requirements from other places.

<trackbot> Notes added to action-290 Describe the history for how we got to the signalling needed for mpeg that came from dece for issue-305..

<scribe> ACTION: nigel Find the related issue that describes the need to restrict or extend individual profile features [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-tt-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-291 - Find the related issue that describes the need to restrict or extend individual profile features [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-05-29].

F2F Planning

action-289?

<trackbot> action-289 -- Nigel Megitt to Create a wiki page for the september f2f with a draft agenda and an 'intention to attend' section. -- due 2014-05-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/289

nigel: I've created the wiki page at https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/geneva2014
... Describes agenda as listed on web page.

mike: Day 2 conflicts with the SMPTE meetings - it would be helpful to schedule breakouts on day 2 30 days out so that mike and pal (at least) can work out their optimal attendance.
... I can come back to you with the SMPTE meeting details for 17th about a month before so that we can schedule this.

close action-289

<trackbot> Closed action-289.

Profile updates this week

nigel: This really needs Glenn but there's one small part I think we can cover.
... This is the default for @validationAction which is currently "abort" and mandatory.
... Proposal is to make it "warn" so that processors can attempt to display document by default, and also to make it a recommendation to the processor rather than mandatory.

pal: Does this fully capture Glenn's take on TTML2 or is there further work required? We can wait until he's on a call before answering this.
... I need to review the rest of this work before coming to a conclusion on this.

mike: We need Glenn for this.

nigel: Okay we'll defer this proposal until we can bring Glenn in.

Issues discussed and raised over the past week (selected subset)

issue-309?

<trackbot> issue-309 -- Image profile needs to permit text equivalent -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/309

pal: We can add a recommendation that when images are distributed then text should also be distributed as a separate version of the document alongside if the requirement for text exists.
... It's not required for all applications. The specification does not prevent that.

nigel: I'd need to see the explanatory text on this.

mike: If there is a requirement, then I'm okay with adding the ability to add text to the image profile.
... We need to see the good reason or requirement for this though.

pal: I'll add a note as a first step a paragraph explaining how the requirements to accompany images with text can be accomplished by including an image profile and a text profile alongside the same media object.

mike: I don't think that's the requirement. This has a long history and there are some unusual agendas at play.

issue-310?

<trackbot> issue-310 -- Forward reference rule doesn't take into account child elements -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/310

pal: The idea here is that just using a SAX parser you can render the document as you get a call back for every single node, without waiting until the entire document has been parsed prior to rendering.
... I'll have a go at rewording to express this section better.

issue-312?

<trackbot> issue-312 -- forcedDisplay attribute is metadata so should be in ttm not tts namespace -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/312

open issue-312

nigel: This needs some wording that describes what the processor needs to do.

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: mike Describe the history for how we got to the signalling needed for MPEG that came from DECE for ISSUE-305. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-tt-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: nigel Find the related issue that describes the need to restrict or extend individual profile features [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-tt-minutes.html#action02]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2014-05-22 15:06:26 $

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/There's also added value in a standalone text document for other purposes. This allows better solutions.//
Succeeded: s/wrapping up another call. be here soon....//
Found ScribeNick: nigel
Inferring Scribes: nigel
Default Present: pal, nigel, Mike, jdsmith, frans
Present: pal nigel mike jdsmith frans
Regrets: glenn
Found Date: 22 May 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-tt-minutes.html
People with action items: mike nigel

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