See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 22 May 2014
<krit> need a minute
<ed> scribeNick: ed
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2014May/0022.html
krit: we discussed on ML, want to
remove sections...
... first part ...(missed)
... second part, we should make css always convert to svg
(???)
<nikos> scribenick: nikos
Tav: 2 issues here
... you want all css stuff in one place. I don't think that's a
good idea
... text stuff should be in the text section
... I want to see what css modules apply in the text section,
not hidden elsewhere in the spec
... second issue is that if someone is looking at the spec,
it's good to see what the css modules are being used for
... e.g. filter chapter should have small section with
explanation of what filter is and one or two examples and then
refer to css spec
... this way someone looking at the chapter can get a quick
idea of what it's about
... you also asked that text sections be moved. e.g.
text-decoration
... text-decoration has problems interacting with svg
... would be great if that's solved in the spec but I still
think we should have examples
... what parts of css modules apply to what versions of
svg?
... to answer that we have to have something in the svg spec
stating what parts of css are used
... I don't think you can just remove stuff that is defined by
svg
... I think text-indent could be removed, but there's details
to be discussed. does it apply to svg 1.1 style text or just
when you have a region for layout?
krit: I don't want to get into
detail for each section
... in general I don't think we should preserve svg 1.1.
style
... we should remove anything that is duplicated
... e.g. filters has no content
... all the sections with no content can be removed in my
eyes
... of course there are links that need to be defined
... how certain things apply to svg needs to be defined
... but it doesn't make sense to have text for everything
... going back to filter effects example, I think examples can
be in the filter effects spec
... it's not a handbook, it's a specification for
implementers
... even examples can be out-dated
... why not just say you can apply filter effects and link to
the spec
... we have nothing about blending in the svg spec yet blending
applies to svg
Tav: I think we should have short sections for each. I hate having to click through multiple specifications
krit: that's always going to be
the case, whether examples are given or not
... we need an interactions module that explains how parts of
other specs are used
... we need normative text if there is svg specific
behaviour
Tav: I think when you look at what can be cut it will be quite limited
krit: well I definitely don't want to cut everything
Tav: when I look through the css specs, fonts 3 is a good example, it has lots of examples and I find it easy to understand
krit: every other css spec should
be the same
... svg should concentrate on svg itself
... we agree we need a section that explains the interaction
with the css modules
Tav: yes
krit: can we agree sections with no content but just links to other specs. e.g. text-align
Tav: I agree that when the spec
is done we can clean that up. but dont agree that we can remove
right away
... we need to look at each section as a whole and work out
what is valuable to keep
<krit> scribenick: krit
krit: Can we agree that each section needs a review as well as the CSS counter part and that we need to check the whole CSS module if and how it applies to SVG before we remove anything?
Tav: Yes, absolutely
<scribe> ACTION: Tav to review CSS Text decoration and CSS3 Text and compare it with SVG [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3626 - Review css text decoration and css3 text and compare it with svg [on Tavmjong Bah - due 2014-05-29].
<scribe> ACTION: krit to review CSS Text decoration and CSS3 Text and compare it with SVG [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3627 - Review css text decoration and css3 text and compare it with svg [on Dirk Schulze - due 2014-05-29].
Tav: problem is that the property
allows a single color to be defined to a text decoration
... SVG on the other hand allows fill and stroke for the text
decoration
... how could we make these apply with
text-decoration-color
... it would desireable to define a pattern or gradient on the
text decoration
ed: so the fill of text on the stroke of text decoration?
Tav: something like that
<ed> I meant: text-decoration-fill and text-decoration-stroke
krit: don't we have context-stroke and context fill on svg fonts?
Tav: yes
... but a values
krit: right, could
text-decor-color take these keywords?
... you can not define stroke and fill separately for
decoration
Tav: but does it apply to the
stroke or fill of the text decoration itself
... it would be interesting to know if fill and stroke will
apply to text in cSS as well
krit: 1) yes fill and stroke will apply to html text in the future
Tav: in a way compatible to SVG
krit: we should make sure that this is the case for the CSS WG
Tav: concerned that this will not be the case
krit: filla nd stroke will apply
to text in CSS as it applies to SVG elements today
... would the SVG WG accept to change initial value for fill to
currentColor
... that could solve the problem with color and fill on text
for HTML and SVG
ed: what is the value of color if not defined?
krit: it is an inheriting
property
... ancestor sets color
... it no ancestor does, it is black
<ed> scribeNick: ed
ed: are the benefits worth it? what problems would it solve?
nikos: I think dirk meant that
you could then specify the fill and stroke separately
... currentColor seems a bit weird
<nikos> nikos: I think Dirk was meaning that you could set text-decoration-fill without setting text-decoration-stroke and if stroke was enabled then it would get a sensible value from somewhere
ed: another question is: how important is it to be able to control fill and stroke separately for text-decoration
tav: you can already do it using
another tspan
... simple thing to fix if we have CSSWG on board
ed: so this is option 3 in your writeup, correct?
tav: yes, combined with option 2, setting 'text-decoration-color' set text 'fill'
ed: ok, let's see what feedback the css editors give us on that proposal
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2014May/0011.html
ed: there's variety of behavior
for textLength combined with tspan, I'm thinking that the spec
might be too vague
... tav what do you think?
... it gets a little tricky when you have textLength both on
parent <text> and on a child <tspan>
... not sure the spec covers that in enough detail
tav: you'd use the textlenght from the tspan, and then use that to go back to the parent
nikos: yes, that's the way i read it too
ed: we have no tests for this in the testsuite yet
tav: suggest that thomas proposes some clarified spec text, and a test
<scribe> ACTION: thomas to propose clarifications for textLength and <tspan>, and to submit some tests to the svg2 testsuite for this [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3628 - Propose clarifications for textlength and <tspan>, and to submit some tests to the svg2 testsuite for this [on Thomas Smailus - due 2014-05-29].
tav: inkscape has baseline-shift for sub and super scripts
ed: what about alignment-baseline / dominant-baseline?
tav: don't think so
ed: CL sent a mail with the conclusion from csswg on letting svg2 define these properties for now
tav: fine with me
trackbot, end telcon
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/krit/Tav/ Succeeded: s/text in future/html text in the future/ Found ScribeNick: ed Found ScribeNick: nikos Found ScribeNick: krit Found ScribeNick: ed Inferring Scribes: ed, nikos, krit Scribes: ed, nikos, krit ScribeNicks: ed, nikos, krit Default Present: cabanier, krit, Tav, ed, stakagi, nikos, Rich Present: cabanier krit Tav ed stakagi nikos Rich Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2014May/0039.html Found Date: 22 May 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-svg-minutes.html People with action items: krit tav thomas[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]