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<scribe> scribe: Travis
<scribe> scribeNick: Travis
<masayuki> Hello,
<garykac> hallo
<garykac> Masayuki: I put in a fix for https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23906
<garykac> BAsically just adding a virtual 'Accel' key that maps to 'OS' (Win), 'Meta' (Mac) or Super/Hyper (Linux)
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23906
<garykac> And with the modifier keys, we have attributes for shift, alt, meta and control
<garykac> We don't want to any more attributes (since we'd probably have to add another 6 or 7, which would be unwieldy)
<garykac> But if we want people to use getmodifierstate, should these 4 attributes be marked as deprecated?
<garykac> Also, we have a lot of modifier keys in the modifier key list. I'm not sure that all of them make sense with getmodifierstate().
<masayuki> garykac: Oh, that's not my intent of bug 23906. I want it maps to Ctrl (Win), Command (Mac), depends on settings (Linux).
<garykac> masayuki:ah. 'ctrl' for win makes sense. that way 'Accel' + c is "copy" on all 3 OSs.
<masayuki> Um, adding only on getModifierState() is simpler, though...
<garykac> masayuki: yes, it could have been put there
<masayuki> I think that on most environments, the acceleration key on Linux is Ctrl. E.g., Fedora and Ubuntu.
<masayuki> However, somebody using Mac keyboard may customize acceleration key as Super or Hyper if it's possible.
<garykac> Is it easy to get the current acceleration key on Linux?
I'm wondering why we are using the term "Accel" -- this confused me, and made me think of ALT key use, such as ALT+F to get the File menu, ALT+T for the tools menu, ALT+H for help... I thought those things were called "accellerators"
<garykac> If it's hard to determine which key is being used for menu shortcuts, then this might be too complex to be worthwhile.
<masayuki> On Firefox, users can customize it with Firefox's about:config. How about Google Chrome?
<garykac> masayuki: I don't know
<masayuki> I think that which is an "Accel" modifier should be decided by browser because its purpose is that providing a way to useful web apps own shortcut key implementation.
<masayuki> If browser's shortcut key is Alt+Foo, when KeyboardEvent.altKey is true, .getModifierState("Accel") should return true.
I just remembered that Web applications can't reliabily work with ALT (on windows) anyway, because the OS steals focus from the browser client to focus the browser frame's accelerator menus. So, yeah, ALT doesn't really work as an Accel key.
<masayuki> Travis: Yes. It's just an example.
My only suggestion at this point is to go with the full name "Accelerator" rather than "Accel" which seems like a weird shortname...
<garykac> Does FF Mac have the ability to change the accel key? I don't see it in prefs.
<masayuki> garykac: Yes, it's ui.key.accelKey. You need to reboot Firefox, though.
<masayuki> 17 for Ctrl, 18 for Alt, 224 for Meta, 91 for Win, 0 for none.
<masayuki> (the values are .keyCode value on Gecko...)
<masayuki> I'm not sure which is better "Accel" or "Accelerator" since it should be natural word for native English engineers.
Actually, "AccelKey" might work for me.
<garykac> masayuki: on Mac most shortcuts use ⌘, so changing this setting would affect those shortcuts. But the "Home" shortcut is Option + Arrow. What would happen to this shortcut if I change my default shortcut to Option?
<masayuki> garykac: Not affected. And it may conflict with Command + Home.
<garykac> ok.
<garykac> so, I'll change the text to map 'Accel''Ctrl'
<garykac> ...'Accel' to 'Control' for Windows
<garykac> Another issue: there are 15 modifier keys. I'm not sure it makes sense for getmodifierstate to support them all.
HTML5 is using the term accesskey for the ALT combos in Windows: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/single-page.html#using-the-accesskey-attribute-to-define-a-command-on-other-elements
So, basically "access" is out for a name :)
<garykac> On the Mac, you cannot query for the state of the CapsLock key. So I'm not sure how get modifier state would support that.
<garykac> And I think that Fn and FnLock are not exposed as well.
Note, we now have "DeadKey" in the key tables as of a few days ago... may need to change that to just "Dead"?
<garykac> I think that 'Dead' is more consistent - we don't use the 'Key' suffix for any other key value.
<masayuki> garykac: It's included in [NSEvent modifierFlags]. See http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/widget/cocoa/nsCocoaUtils.mm#550
<garykac> masayuki: That's great. Being able to query CapsLock state is very useful. I've heard that there were problems getting it on the Mac - glad to see there's a way to do it./
<garykac> With beforeinput, FF has a bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=970802
We noted that in HTML5, the input event is just a generic Event type, not an InputEvent. There's no technical reason to have .data, but having isComposing is useful. We should be mindful that this is different from HTML.
<garykac> OK. I'm going to check with folks internally who are interested in working on beforeinput. To check to see if they have any comments on it.
I think we're done for today.
<garykac> Aside from that, I don't have anything else today to talk about.
I plan to work on some more bugs this week.
<garykac> I'll make the additional changes to clarify the Accel key text. I'll resolve the bug and ping you two to review the updated text.
<masayuki> I'm working on KeyboardEvent.code on Firefox.
<garykac> Thansk!
<masayuki> Thanks.
See ya!
<garykac> masayuki: Cool. Let us know if you encounter anything strange.
<garykac> g'night.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: Travis Inferring ScribeNick: Travis Found ScribeNick: Travis Default Present: garykac, Travis Present: garykac Travis Gary Masayuki WARNING: No meeting title found! You should specify the meeting title like this: <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Got date from IRC log name: 07 May 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/05/07-webapps-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]