Pointer Events WG Voice Conference

06 May 2014


See also: IRC log


Art_Barstow, Scott_González, Cathy_Chan, Jacob_Rossi, Matt_Brubeck, Rick_Byers, Doug_Schepers, Patrick_Lauke, Olli_Pettay


zakim [Microsoft] is jrossi

<scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB

<scribe> Scribe: Art

<smaug> in a minute

<smaug> un-regrets

Tweak agenda

AB: hi All and welcome back. I think this is going to be a relatively short meeting ...
... I submitted a draft agenda yesterday <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014AprJun/0043.html>.
... there are 4 "real" bugs (topics #2-#5) plus 5 editorial bugs (topic #6). We won't discuss the editorial bugs.
... of the 4 real bugs (21749/agreement, 24923/action-98, 24971/action-102 and 25147/agreement), we have agreements and/or actions re addressing the bugs so we're waiting for the Editors to do some work.
... as such, unless someone wants to discuss any of these, it seems like we should drop them from today's agenda. However, it would be good to get at least a "rough" ETA on the fixes from the Editors.
... anyone want to discuss any of the open bugs?

[ None ]

JR: re the editorial changes, I don't see anything controversial

<patrick_h_lauke> (must try harder to be controversial :) )

… I'll get through those this week or next at the latest (10 days)

AB: what about the other 4 bugs, Jacob?

JR: one of them I'll get to when I do the editorial bugs

… 24971 is similar

… I don't see any other issues

… What is not represented is the discusion with Anne

… think there are a few more changes need to get more precise

… but I don't think they are substantive, mostly tweaking what we already have to tighten the spec

… don't expect any surprises by the related changes

… Not sure if we closed the bug re Anne's comments or have actions

… but we should probably have a bug to track those changes

AB: if you need to create any new bugs for the tracking, please do so

JR: will do
... one of the other issues was about stating more specifically the default actions for different events

… we talked off thread about this to seek some clarity

… think we arrived at the same conclusion re the order of action

… touch interaction models vary (with diff impls)

… he is looking for spec text re that something could happen with these actions/events and that the spec is intentionally not specific for some of these cases

AB: anything else on bugs for today?

… so another couple of weeks then re editorial work?

JR: yeah, that sounds about right

AB: ok, thanks Jacob

setPointerCapture and CSS pointer-events: none

AB: on April 16 Arthur Stolyar submitted this e-mail and I don't think anyone replied <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014AprJun/0024.html>

<patrick_h_lauke> there's also follow-up threads http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014AprJun/0023.html

<patrick_h_lauke> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014AprJun/0027.html

<patrick_h_lauke> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014AprJun/0022.html

AB: he sent other comments and there was followup

JR: think the response is simple

… PE CSS property isn't standard yet

… things like hit testing are defined

… think yes, it should be written down but no, not in scope for this spec

OP: CSS pointer events prop doesn't effect pointerCapture at all

… thus our spec doesn't need to say anything about CSS pointer events property

JR: does that CSS prop affect hit testing is one question

OP: capturing elements in other elements does not need hit testing

JR: I can reply to Arthur or Olli can

… we need to explain the behavior but the CSS property needs a standard too

OP: I can reply

RB: SVG has some relevant text

… we could submit a comment to SVG about this

DS: yes, PE is about hit testing and SVG can be a target but only if retargeted

… we started defining hit testing

… but then it was put in CSS UI Events

… and it was later removed

… if someone wants to work on a hit testing spec, please let me know

… the Web needs a spec and I can help anyone that wants to work on the spec

<patrick_h_lauke> +q

<patrick_h_lauke> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014AprJun/0027.html

PL: perhaps need some text about some UA not firing pointer out and leave because of performance reasons

<jrossi> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pointerevents/raw-file/tip/pointerEvents.html#pointer-capture

RB: which browser had that behavior?

PL: IE 10 and WP 8

… I replied to ArthurS and he provided a test case

… run into a hit testing peformance optimization

JR: two things here and enter/leave defined in the section I list above

… once start touch action like panning, use something like capture to pan what is touched but doesn't effect the events

PL: I'll try to create a simple demo and replicate what I'm doing

<jrossi> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pointerevents/raw-file/tip/pointerEvents.html#firing-events-using-the-pointerevent-interface

JR: in the link above, it describes these capture cases

<jrossi> JR: specifically, captures when relatedTarget is null

<scribe> ACTION: olli reply to Arthur Stolyar's "setPointerCapture and CSS pointer-events: none" thread [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/06-pointerevents-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-105 - Reply to arthur stolyar's "setpointercapture and css pointer-events: none" thread [on Olli Pettay - due 2014-05-13].


AB: we have PR324 <https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/324/> and review assignments by Matt: see <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014AprJun/0019.html> and <https://gist.github.com/mbrubeck/10757662/revisions>
... the open Issues are: <https://github.com/InternetExplorer/web-platform-tests/issues>

RB: I should be done my reviews by EoD

… these files are much easier to read and understand the tests

<Cathy> +1 on the improvements on the tests. Much thanks to the MSFT team.

… so far I have only found minor issues and I can file issues for those

MB: I think I am done my reviews but I'll double check

RB: Cathy completed her reviews as well as Art's

JR: ok, I'll forward this email to the test author

… we have a couple of additional tests we will submit

… and get them in within a couple of weeks

… I am review them now

AB: thanks everyone for doing that work!

CR implementation updates

AB: does anyone have any new implementation data to share?

<rbyers> correction to the above on test review, I said I've found minor issues that can be fixed easily AND filed issues for larger changes.


RB: are people willing to talk about Touch Events CG

Touch Events CG

<rbyers> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-touchevents/2014Apr/0004.html

RB: one issue is what to do about bug fixes for the Touch Events spec

… in the mail above, bug is described and it needs a fix

… there could be a debate on which impls are doing the right thing

… we are going to change Chrome implementation

… Want to know how to proceed, and if we want to change the spec, how do we do that?

… various options.

MB: I think this is a bug in the spec

<patrick_h_lauke> my feeling: work on making the w3c touch events spec errata

<patrick_h_lauke> with shepazu's help perhaps

… not clear how to proceed. Could create a errata

… not sure about other options

<patrick_h_lauke> NOT fork to WHATWG

JR: our interest is more about the interaction of TE and PE

… and not so much interested in updating the TE spec

… our position is to keep the work in W3C

… re the interaction issues, prefer to publish the errata

… I'm not sure about the process but errata seems appropriate

DS: re the process, we could make an errata and publish it

… the errata is part of a "Proposed Edited Recommendation"

… one problem is that we no longer have a WG for the spec

… I can investigate how to handle this scenario

… I hope we can come up with a light-weight way to publish a new spec

RB: I'd be happy to start with just publishing the errata

… the "do we publish new REC" question is secondary

… important to get an updated spec

… there are also some editorial changes that need to be made

DS: errata can include bug fixes

JR: agree with Rick clarifying the floating point issue is important

AB: is there a list of the bugs and issues?

RB: these are the two most important

<patrick_h_lauke> possible extra item for errata: define what happens when trying to cancel touchend http://www.w3.org/TR/touch-events/#mouse-events

<patrick_h_lauke> "Please refer to the errata for this document" pointing to http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-touch-events-20131010/REC-touch-events-20131010-errata.html

DS: we can publish errata as a first step

… if/when we have more substantive changes we want to make we can consider publishing an Edited Proposed REC

<scribe> ACTION: Doug report to the Touch Events CG how to proceed with errata for the Touch Events spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/06-pointerevents-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-106 - Report to the touch events cg how to proceed with errata for the touch events spec [on Doug Schepers - due 2014-05-13].

<patrick_h_lauke> cheers doug

AB: anything else for today?

[ No ]

AB: given where we are today, I don't expect a need for a meeting for a couple of weeks.
... meeting adjourned

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Doug report to the Touch Events CG how to proceed with errata for the Touch Events spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/06-pointerevents-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: olli reply to Arthur Stolyar's "setPointerCapture and CSS pointer-events: none" thread [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/06-pointerevents-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

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Default Present: [Microsoft], Art_Barstow, Scott_Gonzalez, Cathy, rbyers, Doug_Schepers, +44.797.663.aaaa, Matt_Brubeck, patrick_h_lauke, Olli_Pettay
Present: Art_Barstow Scott_González Cathy_Chan Jacob_Rossi Matt_Brubeck Rick_Byers Doug_Schepers Patrick_Lauke Olli_Pettay

WARNING: Replacing previous Regrets list. (Old list: Olli_Pettay, Sangwhan_Moon)
Use 'Regrets+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list,
such as: <dbooth> Regrets+ Sangwhan_Moon

Regrets: Sangwhan_Moon
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014AprJun/0043.html
Got date from IRC log name: 06 May 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/05/06-pointerevents-minutes.html
People with action items: doug olli reply report

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