W3C

- DRAFT -

Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference

02 May 2014

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
+1.615.417.aaaa, Sharron, Sylvie_Duchateau, Shawn, AnnaBelle, dboudreau, PaulSchantz, helle
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
shawn

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 02 May 2014

Goal: Get all issues this week. Eric review & update next week. Discuss any open issues on 9 May. Eric prepare final draft. Ready for EOWG publication approval week of 12 May.

<Helle> Good point Denis

<AnnaBelle> Send draft link change on github: https://github.com/w3c/wai-tutorials/pull/38

<dboudreau> Things to fix on https://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/tables/ - 1) Second bullet in content still reads “ambiguous” while the nav now says “irregular”. 2) The “Captions & Summary” - 4th bullet - has a .html extension, breaking the link

<AnnaBelle> Denis - I've sent in fix for #2 - it's actually not the .html

<dboudreau> Irregular tables example #1 to me should be an example for simple tables, without the scope attributes.

OPEN ISSUE: in https://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/tables/ambiguous/ example 1 - does this really need scope? ACTION: create table w/ scope and test with browsers.

<AnnaBelle> Sent proposed text link change to pull: https://github.com/w3c/wai-tutorials/pull/39

* Simple (link)

* Complex

** Irregular (link)

** Multi-level (link)

<Sharron> +1

<AnnaBelle> +1

<dboudreau> +1

<paulschantz> +1

RESOLUTION: To the Table Concepts page, add mini table images showing where the headers are in example tables. (Denis can help! ;-)

CHANGE: see above organization with Irregular & Multi-level under Complex

<AnnaBelle> For example in the second table below "Closed" is meaningless on its own, but makes sense when it is associated

<AnnaBelle> with the time (which is the row header) and the date (which is the column header).

with the time (the row header) and the date (\the column header).

with the time (the row header) and the date (the column header).

menus:

* Simple

* Complex: Irregular

*Comlex: Multi-level

???

or

* Simple

*Irregular

*Multi-level

<dboudreau> my vote goes for proposal #1

<dboudreau> “…to describe the overall topic of a table, and summariesto provide…” shoud be changed to “…to describe the overall topic of a table, and summary to provide…”

question: formal or informal? (contractions)

<dboudreau> +1 to informal

<paulschantz> +1 to informal

<AnnaBelle> +1 to informal

AB notes that most of our other material is quite formal

<dboudreau> would be nice to make the tutorials a little less formal, just to make a clear distinction between these documents and the actual specifications/techniques

<AnnaBelle> Here's what it looks like:

<AnnaBelle> For more complex tables, explicit associations may be needed using `scope` or `id` and `headers` attributes, so that they can be interpreted by assistive technologies.

QUETIONS/ISSUE: Tables Concept page. How to make tables accessible section. 2nd paragraph. ("The structural coding can also be...") First sentence not make sense. Second sentence is a separate idea and maybe should be separate paragraph?

<dboudreau> or, are we talking about both css presentation and html markup and how both of these affect how the end user actually receives the informaiton, based on the tools they’re using and their (in)ability to receive the content in its default presentation?

<Sylvie> No

<dboudreau> http://denisboudreau.org/stuff/eowg/scopedtable-example.html

OVERALL: Use the examples to provide specific examples to explain points. For example, in Irregular Tables, first example: "The scope value row is used on each <th> cell to ensure that it cannot be mistaken as a header for other cells in the same column." -> "The scope value row is used on each <th> cell to ensure that it cannot be mistaken as a header for other cells in the same column -- for

example, in the example table below, Belgium should not be mistaken as the heading for France, Holland, etc."

Anna Belle: would be great to have example of large, responsive data tables

CHANGE: Irregular page. Example 2 is unusual. please put it at the end.

Irregular page: Example 3 "Table with headers spanning multiple rows or columns". "In this example, some of the row header cells span two or more rows of data cells and one column header spans three columns." -> "In this example, some of the header cells span multiple rows or columns; for example, the Zodiac row header spans 3 rows, and the Sizes available column header spans 3 columns."

"In the table below, some of the header cells span multiple rows or columns; for example, the Zodiac row header spans 3 rows, and the Sizes available column header spans 3 columns."

<AnnaBelle> In multi-level example 1 seeing horizontal scrollbar

<AnnaBelle> +1 getting rid of column 4

<Sharron> +1

<dboudreau> +1 to getting rid of column 4 (complex table - example 1)

<paulschantz> +1 to getting rid of column 4. Unnecessary.

MINOR: In multi-level page, I'm seeing "Full code for Example 1: Table with multiple column headers in each column (new window)" - missing image? also, that's not on the other pages.

denis: complex table that is missing is having 2 or 3 levels ... @@

denis agrees important to mention idea of breaking up complex table into separate tables. AB says some data folks will not want to brak them up.

denis & AB: need to have a much more complex example

meet again Monday 1:00C/2:00C

wiki page for tables comments https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Tutorials/Feedback/Tables

meet again Monday 1:00C/2:00E

trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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Present: +1.615.417.aaaa Sharron Sylvie_Duchateau Shawn AnnaBelle dboudreau PaulSchantz helle

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Found Date: 02 May 2014
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