See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 16 April 2014
<janina> Meeting: IndieUI Task Force Teleconference
<scribe> scribe: jasonjgw
James: discussion on the TAG list about the relationship of DOM and pointer events. James responded to comments involving IndieUI events.
<jcraig> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2014Apr/0032.html
<Ryladog> ScribeNick: Ryladog
<kurosawa> Pointer Events http://www.w3.org/TR/pointerevents/
<scribe> Meeting: IndieUI Task Force Teleconference
<jasonjgw> Questions were raised about implementations, which James answered on list.
<jcraig> That response is here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2014Apr/0034.html
JC: Shane caught it
JW: Implementation si where we need to concentrate, and will help to quesll any suspitions that the spec may nit neet it CR requirments
JC: A lot of peole still dont understand it yet
<jasonjgw> Janina has responded that we would like to meet at TPAC; we're considering meeting on Monday/Tuesday (dates swapped with PF).
<jasonjgw> Web Apps is Monday/Tuesday, enabling a joint meeting.
<MichaelC> scribe: jasonjgw
James raises the concern that a two-day meeting would make it difficult for those needing to engage with other groups to do so at simultaneous meetings.
<Ryladog_> CJ: I am suggestion that IndeiUI be f2f be one day of the Web Apps WG meeting
James suggests that IndieUI be one day of the Web Apps meeting so that participants in IndieUI can participate in Web Apps the other day.
<Ryladog_> MC: We could declare the IndieUI is two days but one is defined as meeting with Web Apps
<Ryladog_> JS: I still wnat to keep the IndieUI as showing both days - to enable flecible scheduling to maximize our tomme with web apps
Michael and Janina suggest that a two-day meeting in the calendar would provide more flexibility to establish an appropriate schedule that maximizes meeting time with WebApps.
<Ryladog_> JC: That makes sense, but I thinnk there is so much overlap between the two concepts. I ama member of both groups. One problem now is a lot of really good things are happeneing in WebApps
James notes the overlap of work with WebApps in both Events and User Contexts.
<Ryladog_> JC: Charles had previously been interested in "intentional events" - which is very related to our work
<Ryladog_> JC: The user settings aspect of the user cotext
He notes their interest in intentional events.
Janina maintains that the best solution is to reserve a room on Monday/Tuesday, then coordinate with WebApps as appropriate.
Michael would prefer to make a room available for one day if it happens that we're only using it for a single day.
There are fewer rooms available than there were in previous years.
Janina proposes to contact Charles to coordinate in the next few weeks.
James concurs with Janina that we don't want to constrain the WebApps agenda, hence we shouldn't limit ourselves to a single day but should rather book it for both days and assume that cross-group interaction will occur as planned.
Michael would like to see the overlap (and room usage) sorted out soon for meeting planning.
James would like the privacy interest group to consider our privacy-related issues and proposals related to IndieUI User Context.
Michael notes that the CSS meeting also coincides with ours.
James reminds the group of the proposal to add continuous media events (equivalent to fast forward/rewind). He notes that there is precedence for these (seek forward/backward) in some UIs and consequently they should be specified.
<jcraig> seek forward/back in addition to previous/next
Janina notes the current importance of media work in W3C standardization and accessibility work in this area.
Janina notes work in HTML 5 and the PF notes on Media Accessibility User Requirements, discussing James' comments on this work. There's a media sub-team working in PF currently.
<MichaelC> Media Accessibility User Requirements http://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/
<jcraig> ACTION: jcraig to add seek forward/back in addition to previous/next (related to ACTION-16) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-indie-ui-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-85 - Add seek forward/back in addition to previous/next (related to action-16) [on James Craig - due 2014-04-23].
<jcraig> trackbot, associate action-85 with product-2
<trackbot> action-85 (Add seek forward/back in addition to previous/next (related to action-16)) associated with product-2.
Janina points out that the issue of controls is related to the media events under discussion in IndieUI and that there will be test cases to work with resulting from the work on multimedia in other groups.
Michael: IndieUI Events Requirements have been published, with an added abstract and introduction (as necessitated by W3C publication policies).
Publication has not been approved as the abstract requires clarification.
Michael proposes to send mail to the list when the abstract is ready so that publication can proceed.
Michael proposes a first public draft of Requirements, followed by a second draft before the final version.
He also proposes quickly publishing a heartbeat draft of IndieUI Events, and that we are two drafts away from Last Call. To make Last Call timely, we should publish the next heartbeat draft soon.
Concretely, this means publishing in the next few weeks.
James would like to request a few more weeks in order to make changes, including UI triggering/controller, which make implementation easier.
He doesn't want to waste time of implementors in working on a draft that is known to be inadequate for the purpose of soliciting early implementation.
Michael would like to have a firm commitment with a target date to avoid slipping.
James maintains that mid to late May would fit his schedule.
Michael: this entails six months between May and Last Call, at minimum, given a second draft prior to Last Call.
Janina: the timeline would then be May, August, and Last Call after TPAC.
Janina would like to see Last Call this year.
<janina> jg: Concerned that devs would learn things requiring spec changes from our CR doc. Would be good if we could make those changes without returning to LC.
Michael notes the importance of having testing well underway before Last Call. The proposed revision to the W3C process will facilitate making changes during CR.
We can either delay LC or avail ourselves of the new process (if it takes effect) during CR.
Michael notes that the process changes might not be approved, in which case returning to LC is as painful as ever.
Michael: User Contexts has stalled due to our focus on Events; we need to return to it.
He proposes to include User Contexts requirements in the next version of the requirements document.
<jcraig> ACTIONS/ISSUES for User Context
<jcraig> https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3
<jcraig> action-80?
<trackbot> action-80 -- James Craig to Link notes about screenreader privacy concerns, and try to address in the screenreader section, not just the security section. Add normative statements that implementors MUST NOT implement high security interfaces like screen reader until the user security model is in place. -- due 2014-03-12 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/actions/80
James maintains that the primary issue requiring attention before publishing a first public working draft of User Contexts is action 80.
this is the question of whether a Web application should be able to determine whether a screen reader is running and (potentially) what its settings are.
James: we need to clarify the rationale for this, or temporarily remove the feature pending resolution of the issue.
James also suggests clearly noting the relationship to the privacy section in respect of all features that raise significant privacy concerns.
Michael considers one option for us to be publishing Events, then dealing with this issue and publishing a first draft of User Contexts.
Janina would like to see a first public working draft of User Contexts in between the publication of Events drafts - June/July for example.
Katie asks Janina about coordinating with the privacy interest group.
Janina notes that we can invite them into the conversation in various ways. This is useful, but they're not going to wish to influence what the accessibility policy should be in this area.
Katie would like to engage the interest of specialists in privacy law.
Michael notes that the privacy interest group is active but we haven't yet asked them for review.
Katie would like clarification of the legal requirements surrounding disclosure by users of information about AT.
Janina raises the threshold question of whether there are any legal issues in regard to such disclosures.
James wishes it to be clear that nothing is exposed about the user without the user's prior knowledge and agreement.
Katie is concerned that the appropriate terminology (as used in the legal/privacy community) should be used, where appropriate, in describing the privacy-related features/requriements.
Janina notes this is a controversial issue and we need consensus as to what to publish before the first public working draft of User Contexts.
James suggests removing the screen reader aspect, mentioning it in a note, and including "Accessibility API Compatible", which could also be used for non-accessibility-related automation purposes.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Scribe: Katie Haritos-Shea/scribe: jasonjgw/ Succeeded: s/Alot/A lot/ Succeeded: s/has been pushing intentional events/had previously been interested in "intentional events"/ Succeeded: s/privacy-related issues and proposals./privacy-related issues and proposals related to IndieUI User Context./ Found Scribe: jasonjgw Inferring ScribeNick: jasonjgw Found ScribeNick: Ryladog Found Scribe: jasonjgw Inferring ScribeNick: jasonjgw ScribeNicks: Ryladog, jasonjgw Default Present: janina, jasonjgw, Michael_Cooper, Takeshi_Kurosawa, jcraig, Katie_Haritos-Shea Present: janina jasonjgw Michael_Cooper Takeshi_Kurosawa jcraig Katie_Haritos-Shea Regrets: Rich Andy Found Date: 16 Apr 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-indie-ui-minutes.html People with action items: jcraig WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]