See also: IRC log
<inserted> scribenick: koalie
<koaliie> Previous (2014-03-27)
<jeff> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Webizen
Jeff: [overview of https://www.w3.org/wiki/Webizen ]
... Maybe we should modify the "background" section a little bit
... since it's been written we changed that we're going some benefits
... let's live change in the wiki ...
... reload to see proposed tweak
https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?title=Webizen&diff=72876&oldid=72873
[proposed tweak: "The current proposal provides certain privileges for example participation (via representation) in the AC. "]
Ann: For those already participating, the distinction might be too subtle
Jeff: OK
Ann: It needs to be clear (it's explained further down)
Jeff: I have a new proposal
Ann: I'm happy to come back to it later, let's keep going
Jeff: OK, we can do it offline also
[Jeff continues with overview of wiki content]
<inserted> scribenick: jeff
Jeff: When do we work on the developing country
piece?
... Can it wait until later
Veronica: Confusing use of term Membership.
<inserted> scribenick: koalie
Jeff: The only terminology we have thus far is "webizen"
Ann: In the intro, it says "individual membership" several times
JEff: Maybe we should make clear over there that we're not going individual membership.
Ann: Yes
Veronica: Yes
Ann: "affiliation"?
Jeff: I like
<veronica> +1 affiliation
veronica: I like it too
Ann: Let's get to concept and clean up later if
there is redundancy
... re: developing countries, I don't want this to appear demeaning
... I want to be sensitive about it
... I don't want to give different benefits to different people.
Jeff: We can't afford to lose money on it.
Ann: I understand, but let's figure out a way to avoid this.
<jeff> http://www.ieee.org/membership_services/membership/join/join_dues.html
Jeff: I did study IEEE... over there ^^,
... they have developing nation e-membership
... you have a choice to pay the full or the e-membership
... maybe you don't get their publications with the latter, I don't know.
Ann: Maybe we should revisit the foundational
goals?
... and aim toward whatever that goal is.
Jeff: good point
[+1 from Coralie]
Jeff: Maybe we need a section call "Goals"
Ann: Good idea
+1
<jcverdie_> +1 to that
Jeff: Let's just create a bullet list
... anyone wants to suggest some goals?
Ann: One of the most important things is we need
more participation in the technical work,
... although I'm not sure this is the goal of webizen
Jeff: How about increase the general public review?
[Jeff writing in the wiki, live]
Jeff: "closer linkage between W3C spec writer and
that ecosystem that relies on W3C recommendations"?
... Reload the wiki
<koaliie> Goals section
Ann: "reports" not the technology in general?
... "increase affilisation" is the top one in my mind
Jeff: Thank you. [minor editing and reorganisation in wiki]
<koaliie> Package of Benefits
<veronica> costless except for chckis
Ann: add "outsource, contest" next to item "Annual Webizen T-shirt. " ?
Coralie: Good idea
Ann: Some in the list will appeal more to some than others
Jeff: Do we think this is a sufficient set to start with?
Ann: Yes, it's a good list.
JC: I think it's a good list
... I'll question the organisation of the list
... t-shirt much less important than having a voice
[the list is currently not ordered by importance]
Jeff: OK, it's been changed
... Shall we remove the developing countries section since it's already
mentioed before and since it's demeaning?
Ann: Yes!
<jcverdie_> +1
+1
<koaliie> Participation Benefits and Non Benefits
Jeff: This section describes the electoral
college
... this is the most controversial part of the proposal
... I felt an obligation to surface it to the W3C Advisory Board that we're
having next monday
... I value on this call the input from two people who are on the AB (Ann and
JC) and others on this call
... and look fwd to your support on monday if grouchy AB members grouch
Ann: I like the concept of limited electoral college
JC: I support this proposal
Jeff: Let's go back to the discounts in the package of benefits
JC: question on college --
... would the privileges extend to running to AB or TAG?
JEff: see paragraph 5
... "The reps would have some, but not all rights of an AC Member. They review
Charters and REC track deliverables, participate in ac-forum discussions, may
attend AC meetings, may nominate for the TAG and AB, and vote in TAG and AB
elections. "
... and " They may accept Member confidential information, but may not
distribute Member confidential information within their companies (since their
companies are not Members) or among Webizens (because re-distribution to all
Webizens means it is no longer in Member space). They cannot nominate
themselves or anyone else to participate in Working Groups. "
JC: thanks
JEff: Veronica, discounts?
veronica: I initially proposed to offer 20%
discounts on Validator Suite, W3C Training and W3Conf
... MCf and Bernard feel that's a bit too generous
... and recommended we don't give a bigger discount than that we offer to w3c
members
... they offered 10% for training and VS
... for w3conf, I had suggested 15% and Doug Schepers thought it wasn't
generous
... now 20% for w3conf
Ann: Would a chart of member benefits and Invited Experts and webizen and other participation categories, be helpful?
[feeling in the "room" is that 10% is very low]
Ann: I understand the concern that we don't want to lose money; perhaps the table of comparisons would help?
veronica: We want people to join; there is perceived benefit and tangible and intangible
JC: I expect and hope that 10% is not the margin
cap of these services
... otherwise we're in trouble
... Our goal is to bring a new class of people, so discounting 10% won't
change anything. On the other hand allowing these people to use such tools will
bring new exposure to them. As long as we don't lose money I don't mind paying
more than people who can't afford
Jeff: in the entries of that table, you can put "TBD"
Veronica: Yes
<koaliie> Webizen voting for the AC
Jeff: I propose we tackle that one last
<AnnBassetti> +1
Jeff: it's a hole we can possibly never escape from...
Ann: Yes!
Jeff: I'll edit the "goal" section to make clear
one thing...
... The Goals section, which was missing thus far, I'd appreciate if people
could review it
https://www.w3.org/wiki/Webizen#Low-key_launch
<inserted> scribenick: jeff
Koalie: We don't know how big, so we won't invest
too much
... Here's the proposal
... Landing page
... Pointers to landing page from select pages
... Bonus for early adopters
... posts, blogs, tweets, emails
... mail to people in WGs
... lots of tweets and retweets
... e.g. from Tim
... ISOC/IETF/web platform
... of course W3C Memes
... Alex Russell
... media guys (Shankland)
... Tim O'Reilly
... Target audiences: WG people, validator users, alumni
... No spam, prefer customer-relation approach
... and of course huge twitter influencers like JC Verdie
<inserted> scribenick: koalie
Ann: great list
... Add tweeter: whiteafrican
<jeff> Ann: Add Erik Hersman
Ann: he's followed by thousands of geeks in Africa
Jeff: We should reach out to those in Work group
who are not affiliated already with us through W3C Members
... -1 on reaching out to sister orgs like ISOC and IETF
... it can be awkward for a variety of reasons
<AnnBassetti> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Hersman
Jeff: we should try to do it ourselves
Coralie: OK, makes sense
Jeff: about pitch
... characterizing as an obligation might not work
... doesn't match all the goals
... one of the goals is to give the world an opportunity to give back, you can
say that
... action item for someone to align the goals with pitch
Ann: I'm interested for somebody to get back with Alex Russell what he thinks about that
Jeff: I did offer him the opportunity to
participate in this TF
... he said he'd love to but has this project that takes 100% of his time
... I could send him the current wiki and ask if he has any thought on it
Ann: Anne van Kesteren tweeted something negative
a while ago; I replied he should contribute; he didn't reply
... Maybe other geeks who aren't participating
https://twitter.com/koalie/status/451680917564968960
Jeff: I reached out and Anne replied
... I don't know if he's satisfied with the current proposal
Ann: It might be useful to put "draft" on the wiki
Jeff: Yes
Ann: "draft" or "help us out!"
Jeff: Veronica needs to update the wiki with
discounts proposal
... Any other business that we should be discussing?
... Electoral college voting technique
Ann: Special category is required, for those who
want to discuss voting :)
... Who do we think are our webizens?
Jeff: Some of them are those we like to complain
about W3C (because they care)
... Next meeting?
... AB discussion next Monday
... this is in TF mode until June AC meeting
... at the AC meeting we'll discuss this, not sure in main tent for breakout
session
... then July woods meeting, where W3M decides to approve it or not
... we need to get something out within the next 2 months
<scribe> ACTION: koalie to align pitch phrases with goals as stated in section created today [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-webizen-minutes.html#action01]
Ann: I'm not a good judge of what would be a
compelling benefit
... I'd like to float them with someone
... could people in the Offices identify likely candidates and see what the
reactions are?
Jeff: Great idea
... and how they would be able to socialise it.
... That's principally comm related; Coralie, action to get this on the
Offices calendar?
Coralie: yes
<scribe> ACTION: koalie to get W3C Offices to identify likely candidates and seek their reactions [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-webizen-minutes.html#action02]
<veronica> May 1
Jeff: re: next meeting: I propose in two weeks
<veronica> how about an 'intro' club - starters to help 'develop' the webizen pool
<veronica> May Day!
<darobin> [I reckon that people on the Responsive Images CG could be a good part of an intro club]
<darobin> [I'm happy to reach out to a few of them]
Jeff: Monday May 5th
... Thanks all for good suggestions today
<veronica> bye
[adjourned]
<AnnBassetti> add DAROBIN as semi-participant
<AnnBassetti> (so to speak)