<trackbot> Date: 17 February 2014

<richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus

<richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Rich

<richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Feb/0021.html

<joanie> did an agenda go out?

<jcraig> scribe: jcraog

<MichaelC> scribe: jcraig

<janina> sirc: janina

<janina> scribe: janina

rs: Reporting on Edupub developments
... Movement on semantic sub team and also graphics sub team

s/movemeent/movement/

<jcraig> i

1.0 doc scrubbing

mc: Reviewing timeline for publishing by March 13, if at all possible
... Director review must precede that. This will all be compressed
... So, all pre by March 7
... So cleanup should be this week

rs: So what to do, and do we need additional calls?

mc: some can be assigned

<MichaelC> ARIA Roadmap

<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/

<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-primer/

js: Asks whether notes couldn't be published later?

mc: Yes

jc: Docs we refer to do should be permanently available

rs: The Road Map served its purpose. Do we need to pub?

mc: Started on rec track, so it raises questions: "What happened to it?"
... Might say "We're done and will not finish" and publish as notes.
... Or, we can do some editing.

jc: Can we mark as obsolete?

mc: Unsure

rs: As a historical document? That's what it is?

mc: Which is one reason for publishing as a note.

jc: Rather do "retired."

mc: Looking I see mostly notes as "retired."

[agreement to seek "retired" status]

mc: So Road Map and Primer to be marked "retired"

js: Notes that Authoring has new editors as of Toronto F2F

<jcraig> better to mark the roadmap and primer as retired than as notes, b/c as notes we'd have to clean them up again before republishing.

mc: Practices says "1.0," do we want to make it versionless?

[agreement]

rs: So retired means we don't need any edits?

mc: Believe so.
... If we edit anything, questions arise why not more, and also about process
... Concerned about doc load

rs: Well, Authoring eds not in Indie
... Publish draft of Authoring?

mc: Not on the TR timeline

spelling and other edits for PR docs

mc: inconsistency in spelling, which do we use? programing or programming etc
... How to find these issues?

js: Will listen for TTS errors that might indicate spelling

jc: Will look
... Timeline?

mc: Need all done by the 28th
... So read throughs done by the 24th ...

rs: Both docs?

mc: Yes

rs: Are hyperlinks checked?

mc: Yes
... Need to check referencing section -- pointers to other W3C specs. Are we up to date?
... Links aren't broken, but maybe suboptimal because of a redirect, etc

jc: Especially links pointing to a fragment ID

js: Asks about style sheet?

mc: W3C standard is US English
... Expect we would avoid doubled consonents, u's etc

js: So, beyond the W3C style guide, we simplify? Drop doubled consonants -- fewer chars is our rule ...

[agreement]

rs: Do we email these?

mc: Suggest keep a running set of notes and forward one doc
... Please send one doc with suggested edits to list so it's archived
... Note that editorial notes are not output. Are there some that souldn't be removed? We need to address that.
... If there are some we want to keep in the final TR, we need to do something about them.
... So these need to be noted.

Ivan Herman's comment about RDF reference to URI/IRI

jc: Notes that commenter believes this is an editorial correction

mc: But we need to agree, and will need to flag this for the Director.
... At the least we want Shane to check this?

[agreement]

mc: Double checking for lagging comments ...
... Notes we are open for comments until March 7. Any that come late, we will need to handle urgently.
... AC can also leave comments. Any AC comments will hold up progress until we've satisfied them, or achieved Director's approval to move without resolution

js: Notes that AC voting has not progressed in the last several days. No new votes

Issues 411 & 406

<richardschwerdtfeger> Issues 411, 406 Addition of aria-description or aria-help

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/411

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/406

rs: We have only one API target, however
... APIs don't distinguish help from other description
... What does osx do?

jc: We have AXHelp, which is sometimes used to expose aria-describedby content

rs: Don't think we can have two, whatever we call it

jc: Agree
... Pefer to call it Help because Describedby can point to such large blocks, and we don't want that for help

stefan: Can we limit string length?

ss: Valid point

rs: Problem is we have aria-label for aria-labeledby
... So we'll be asked for the analog of describedby

cs: Notes nothing similar in UA just now, can ask

rs: We also need to think about precedence

cs: Hidden help text is not a UA pattern
... Are you asking for a hidden secondary text field?

ss: We have this concept in SAP, can be longer help about what to do with a field
... We include a kybd command to read it
... How is this different?

jc: We might have help around using upper case chars

rs: We started with describedby, because the ideal is that it's also visible

cs; Maybe we need to revisit tooltip pattern in aria

jc: Agree that would help

rs: yes
... We're currently inconsistent across the AAPIs. We need to settle on a name and a apping

<richardschwerdtfeger> ach richardschwerdtfeger

cs: Also developer text tends to get lost and out of date

jd: Can also make any needed change

<joanie> :)

jc: It's alsmost as describedby is a superset of what we use tooltips for

cs: We don't have one now, because msaa was abusing it
... On pure UA describedby is part of the name calculation

jc: similar here
... Maybe describedby is where the problem is

cs: Seems we need to spend some time thinking about help, description texts, etc

ss: Concerned that attrib names also carry implied meaning, and this can be confusing

jc: Believe aria-description is proposed as a separate use case with no current mapping

ss: Suggest looking at this problem issue from the AAPI perspective. Would that help us?
... What to use today on ms?

cs: A secondary object

rs: I've seen href in bigger bubble help, not just text

ss: One use case is with custom widget, where kybd needs help
... Maybe aria-keyhelp attrib?

jc: Sounds like Access Key, and that didn't work

<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to say accesskey failed. We should not add aria-keyhelp

rs: Suggest we mull this issue for awhile and take it up again next week.

jc: Suggest ew consider aria-tooltip as overide to tooltip

rs: There's short and longer tooltip ...

jc: Sometimes used for mini-dialogs with focusable content, which is part of the problem. @aria-tooltip make make it more apparent that it's just short strings of plain text.
... Would make aria-tooltip even more clear, because could only contain text

make log public

<jcraig> ISSUE-406?

<trackbot> ISSUE-406 -- Proposal for new aria-tooltip property. (Previously proposed as @aria-help) -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/406

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

FAILED: s/movemeent/movement/
Succeeded: s/Movembent/Movement/
Succeeded: s/AX-Help, which is like ARIA-Description/AXHelp, which is sometimes used to expose aria-describedby content/
Succeeded: s/Sometimes used for minidialog, which is part of the problem/Sometimes used for mini-dialogs with focusable content, which is part of the problem/
Succeeded: s/which is part of the problem/which is part of the problem. @aria-tooltip make make it more apparent that it's just short strings of plain text./
Succeeded: s/make log public//
Succeeded: s/make log public/ /
Found Scribe: jcraog
Found Scribe: jcraig
Found Scribe: janina
Inferring ScribeNick: janina
Scribes: jcraog, jcraig, janina
Default Present: Rich_Schwerdtfeger, James_Nurthen, +49.322.110.8.aaaa, janina, Michael_Cooper, Stefan_Schnabel, jcraig, joanie, cyns, cyns_
Present: Rich_Schwerdtfeger James_Nurthen +49.322.110.8.aaaa janina Michael_Cooper Stefan_Schnabel jcraig joanie cyns cyns_
Regrets: Matt_King
Found Date: 17 Feb 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/02/17-aria-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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