See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 11 February 2014
<clown> agenda: this
<clown> scribenick: joanie
<clown> issue-618?
<trackbot> issue-618 -- MSAA selection event mapping for single selection case when item becomes unselected -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/618
CS: Is halfway through the test
case and hopes to have it done today.
... All of her action items are to make a test case and see
what IE does.
JS: Nothing is likely to change
w.r.t. the meeting time
... Either continue meeting at 3:00-4:00 or 3:15-4:15 PM
Eastern Time
CS: Thinks she can do 3:15.
JS: Let's make it at 3:15-4:15, but we'll check with David when he arrives.
CS: Won't be here next week.
JS: Will be here.
<clown> action-1383?
<trackbot> action-1383 -- James Craig to Add role none to spec -- due 2014-02-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1383
JS: Just a heads up for those who
were not at Monday's meeting.
... Create discussion.
... James Craig has an action to add it to the spec.
... My understanding is it will duplicate what is in
role=presentation
<clown> <img alt="" ...>
<clown> <img role="presentation" ...>
<clown> <img role="presentation" alt="some text here" …>
<clown> the last one is an author error.
JS: Explains the above
examples
... Explained that the first two examples are equivalent. This
is in ARIA 1.0
<clown> <img role="none" aria-label="some text here">
JS: Heard at monday's meeting that they are considering doing the above.
<cyns> that seems wrong...
JD: Recalled from Monday that there may be the possibility of <img role="text" alt="foo">
JS: conclusion is role="none" is going forward.
<clown> issue-441?
<trackbot> issue-441 -- Normative UAIG requirements for what UAs do when aria-posinset or aria-setsize is provided explicitly on some, but not all, elements within a set. -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/441
JS + CS: Cynthia is working on it
JS: Are you doing a list box?
CS: Yes.
... is modifying test case 672.
<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsuite_id=1&testcase_id=672
JS: This is for selection; not setsize
JS: Cynthia has this in progress.
<clown> issue-612?
<trackbot> issue-612 -- Review ia2/atk rule in group position. should this really determine level based on aria-owns chain. see uaig: http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/aria-implementation/#mapping_additional_position and test case 69: https://www.w3.org/wai/pf/testharness/testresults?tes -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/612
JS: That one is his.
<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/test?testsuite_id=2&testcase_id=69&platform_id=4
JS: Explains what they did was a bunch of sibling div elements
<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testresults?testsuite_id=2&testcase_id=69
<clown> test report ^
JS: But they used aria-owns to
create a tree
... There is a mozilla bug on it.
<clown> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=499917
JS: Rewinds for David
... Meeting will be from 3:15-4:15
DB: Agrees this is fine, but he may need to leave early
JS: The meeting time will be from
3:00 - 4:15
... Hopefully David will be able to arrive at 3:00
... Cynthia hopefully will be able to arrive at 3:15
... Mozilla stuff first then together stuff then IE stuff
... Reviews the role="presentation" discussion.
... If Mozilla has objections....
DB: He doesn't. He's going to file the bug and find out.
JS: Stefan wanted to use
role="layout" for layout tables
... ... but for images that are decorative
... ... something like role="decorative"
... Feel was we don't want a bunch of roles that do the same
thing
... For the record, he wanted it to be role="contents"
<clown> <table role="contents" …>
DB: I don't think Web Devs would assume that is what it means
JS: I wanted to focus on 'expose the contents'
DB: I saw enough of the dialog and thinks we can go with role="none"
JS: Already seen a tweet that means it will remove everything
DB: There will be confusion
JS: Then we aren't solving the problem
DB: Is this something that is consensus from the Monday meeting?
JS: Basically it's a let's write it up and see what it looks like
s/DS/DB/g
<davidb> I just filed https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=971212 for role=none Moz debate.
<clown> issue-481?
<trackbot> issue-481 -- aria-live removal events should or must happen before object removal -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/481
JS: David you weren't here last week
<clown> action-1369?
<trackbot> action-1369 -- David Bolter to Investigate implementation of aria-live region events in FF -- due 2014-02-11 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1369
JS: Cynthia and I gave you an action
DB: I acknowledge the issue
JS: quoting from issue-481
... He wants that 'should' changed to a 'must'
... That's what I take it to mean
... I leave it to you guys
DB: Cynthia do you have an opinion on 1369 about the order of removal eventes
CS: I understand why he thinks this. I don't know how hard it will be to do it.
JS: That's why you two have issues
CS: Is there anyone from Google?
DB: Dominic Mazzoni
... Going to stay one the phone, but everything is bogging down
here
<clown> issue-612?
<trackbot> issue-612 -- Review ia2/atk rule in group position. should this really determine level based on aria-owns chain. see uaig: http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/aria-implementation/#mapping_additional_position and test case 69: https://www.w3.org/wai/pf/testharness/testresults?tes -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/612
JS: There's a mozilla bug on it too
<clown> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=499917
JS: Looks like Alex wants to keep
it
... Our issue in the test case is that there are div element
siblings
... but there is a hierarchy do to aria-owns
... and the test case fails
<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testresults?testsuite_id=2&testcase_id=69
JS: Who raised the issue?
... It doesn't say who.
... I think Rich and James together suggested getting rid of
this
... quoting text
<clown> "If aria-level is not provided or inherited for an element of role treeitem, user agents implementing IAccessible2 or ATK/AT-SPI MUST compute it by following the explicit or computed RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF relations"
JS: end of quote
... And we discussed this last october?
... And Alex asked why to remove this requirement
DB: Did we?
JS: It should be up in today's
w3c notes
... Reading discussion
DB: I don't recall
<clown> alex first said: "Can you outline why they decided to remove the requirement?"
<davidb_> back!
<clown> and later asked: "so no strong reasons to drop it?"
JS: I get the impression that
Alex sees no reason to get rid of this.
... I think what I want you to do is restart the discussion
with him
DB: OK
JS: Because it's both IA2 and ATK
<clown> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pfwg/raw-file/default/ARIA-UAIG/1.0/tests/test-files/test69.html
JS: Michael Cooper acknowledged
it's a kinda odd way to do a tree
... ... but there's nothing in the spec that says it's
illegal
... David, can you see the markup?
DB: They're all sibling divs
JS: Goes on to explain the tree
structure that results
... And the test case....
... ... says "The level of the last tree item is 2"
... ... When you run the test the level is not 2
... IE wasn't tested
... Only Safari
... James Craig wasn't certain what the result is
... Rich tested it on windows firefox
... ... and set it failed, but didn't say how it failed
... Cynthia, can you run a test case?
<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsuite_id=1&testcase_id=69
JS: Here's the full test case
(above)?
... Questions if that is the right test case.
<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsuite_id=2&testcase_id=69
CS: also questions it
JS: quotes the test expected results
CS: I'll find out
JS: I don't know how you
represent level in IE
... I can't recall how it is in Firefox ATK
JD: It's an object attribute
(more discussion on the test case)
CS: In IE I'm not seeing an
explicit API property of level
... But I am seeing it in the tree
... It's doing what I expect (it == IE)
JS: Adds a note to the issue
CS: Is there a way to attach a screenshot to the issue
JS: I think you have to send an email to the issue
CS: I'm wrong, the tree does not own it.
JS and CS: So it fails on IE.
CS: It's challenging to look at some of these test cases in API tools.
JS: David you have enough to go forward?
DB: I do.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/"content"/"contents"/ Succeeded: s/DS:/DB:/g FAILED: s/DS/DB/g Succeeded: s/aske:/asked:/ Succeeded: s/kinda crazy/kinda odd/ Found ScribeNick: joanie Inferring Scribes: joanie Present: joanie Joseph_Scheuhammer Cynthia_Shelly David_Bolter Found Date: 11 Feb 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-aapi-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]