Timed Text Working Group Teleconference -- 30 Jan 2014

<trackbot> Date: 30 January 2014

<glenn> morning

<tmichel> I am unable to join Zakim from the ERCIM office for unknow reason ...

<tmichel> Keep trying ...

<nigel> will try to keep IRC up to date

<nigel> scribeNick: pal

IANA Registration of TTML media type

<nigel> plh has been at CSS meetings and may be at SVG meeting today

<glenn> http://www.w3.org/2013/09/ttml1-errata.html

<nigel> glenn: copied appendix C into the Errata, and changed the encoding to binary.

<nigel> action-88?

<trackbot> action-88 -- Glenn Adams to Make sure the TTML media type is properly registered for Issue-175. -- due 2013-10-31 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/88

<nigel> action-88: Errata now updated. Mike to check and if looking good to resubmit to IANA.

<trackbot> Notes added to action-88 Make sure the TTML media type is properly registered for Issue-175..

<nigel> glenn: reassigning the action to Mike Dolan

Charter

<nigel> nigel: Following emails over the last week or two the charter will be reverted to use the normal license, i.e. not adopt the HTML experimental license for VTT.

<nigel> ... It's hoped that this will mitigate a likely AC objection.

<nigel> ... Philippe will take this to AC no later than Feb 5.

<nigel> action-248?

<trackbot> action-248 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to Add atsc to the ttml charter -- due 2013-12-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/248

<nigel> http://www.w3.org/2013/10/timed-text-charter.html

<nigel> NB this has not yet been edited to remove the VTT experimental license wording.

<nigel> close action-248

<trackbot> Closed action-248.

<nigel> action-259?

<trackbot> action-259 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to Add ebu wording in charter -- due 2014-01-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/259

<nigel> close action-259

<trackbot> Closed action-259.

Line Height stacking and calculation

<nigel> action-260?

<trackbot> action-260 -- Nigel Megitt to Email group notifying of this change and initiating formal approval -- due 2014-01-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/260

<nigel> close action-260

<trackbot> Closed action-260.

<nigel> nigel: pal asked if it would be back-ported to TTML1. The answer was no.

<glenn> i have a call on the side, so will be back in a few mins

<nigel> nigel: no further queries therefore group accepts glenn's algorithm proposal.

<nigel> pal: I asked a question to glenn for an example of how we would expect a paragraph with a lineHeight of 125% and a fontSize of 10% and a span of 48px font size. How would we expect it to look?

For instance, how do we expect <p tts:fontSize="10px"

tts: fontFamily="arial" tts:lineHeight="125%"><span
... fontSize="48px">...</span>...</p> to behave, e.g. will the height

of each line be the same and, if so, what will the value be? If

tts: lineHeight="125%" and tts:fontSize="10px", what will be the height

of three lines?

<nigel> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2014Jan/0022.html

<nigel> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/default/ttml2/spec/ttml2.html#style-attribute-lineHeight

<nigel> nigel: the proposed algorithm is for lineHeight="normal" so that's a separate issue.

<nigel> nigel: Jerry were you able to confirm this in IE?

<nigel> jdsmith: I sent glenn some screenshots. IE11 matches the behaviour of Chrome.

<nigel> ... on both Windows 8 and Windows 7. Glenn responded that this confirmed his expectation. There were some alignment differences in previous versions of IE.

<nigel> action on glenn to take algorithm from TTML2 ED 8.2.13 tts:lineHeight to CSS WG for review and potential adoption.

<trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/users>.

<nigel> action glenn to take algorithm from TTML2 ED 8.2.13 tts:lineHeight to CSS WG for review and potential adoption.

<trackbot> Created ACTION-265 - Take algorithm from ttml2 ed 8.2.13 tts:lineheight to css wg for review and potential adoption. [on Glenn Adams - due 2014-02-06].

Remaining Pending Review actions

<nigel> action-164?

<trackbot> action-164 -- Jerry Smith to Investigate interop issues using CSS familyName constructs -- due 2013-12-05 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/164

<nigel> jdsmith: there are some outstanding issues and someone needs to make a proposal to align Unicode escapes with CSS to avoid pre-parsing if possible.

<glenn> back

<nigel> close action-164

<trackbot> Closed action-164.

<nigel> action-203?

<trackbot> action-203 -- Glenn Adams to Investigate 708 border style mapping issues with mike's help -- due 2013-09-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/203

<nigel> action-207?

<trackbot> action-207 -- Glenn Adams to Add round-down clarification to "closest" language, see issue-259 -- due 2013-09-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/207

<nigel> issue-259?

<trackbot> issue-259 -- Define "closest" -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259

<nigel> reopen action-207

<trackbot> Re-opened action-207.

<nigel> action-207: glenn to add errata to distinguish between scalar and vector comparisons

<trackbot> Notes added to action-207 Add round-down clarification to "closest" language, see issue-259.

<nigel> reopen issue-259

<trackbot> Re-opened issue-259.

<nigel> issue-259: Scalar and vector comparisons need to be distinguished more clearly.

<trackbot> Notes added to issue-259 Define "closest".

<nigel> action-244?

<trackbot> action-244 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Proceed with work to investigate deltas. if time doesn't allow the fallback is to remove annex a. -- due 2013-12-19 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/244

<nigel> glenn: A note on the action to explain the findings would be useful.

<nigel> action-244: pal to add disclaimer text to table 2

<trackbot> Notes added to action-244 Proceed with work to investigate deltas. if time doesn't allow the fallback is to remove annex a..

<nigel> reopen action-244

<trackbot> Re-opened action-244.

Pending Review Issues

<nigel> issue-162?

<trackbot> issue-162 -- update standalone profile documents -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/162

<nigel> nigel: No feedback received on this - let's close.

<nigel> close issue-162

<trackbot> Closed issue-162.

<nigel> action-261?

<trackbot> action-261 -- Jerry Smith to And glenn to verify flexbox solution to multi row align using ie -- due 2014-01-23 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/261

<nigel> nigel: have added a comment to action 261 directly

<nigel> close action-261

<trackbot> Closed action-261.

<nigel> nigel: not going through remaining outstanding actions to use time on change proposals

Change Proposals

<nigel> scribeNick: nigel

action-263?

<trackbot> action-263 -- Nigel Megitt to Tidy change proposal index page to include an index -- due 2014-01-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/263

https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/ChangeProposalIndex

nigel: glenn, does this do wanted?

glenn: I think we should make change proposals coincident with work packages and eliminate work packages.

nigel: updates page to this effect.

glenn: it would also be good to show the name of the assignee.

pal: Suggests clarification of Issues vs Change Proposals would be worthwhile.

glenn: Other WGs using the same process e.g. HTMLWG.

nigel: bugs are just issues, new features need issues within change proposals.

glenn: Often a 'don't change' proposal goes alongside a change proposal.
... I agree that a new feature should have a change proposal to give the rationale etc. and it may be useful to document that in the index page Overview.
... We're missing a WG process to describe how we use these different tools e.g. actions, issues and change proposals.

close action-263

<trackbot> Closed action-263.

action nigel to describe WG process, issues, actions, change proposals on WG wiki more clearly, including taking out remaining references to work packages from change proposal index page overview.

<trackbot> Created ACTION-266 - Describe wg process, issues, actions, change proposals on wg wiki more clearly, including taking out remaining references to work packages from change proposal index page overview. [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-02-06].

nigel: no progress on action-262
... will complete action-264 tomorrow. Some issues have no CP, others have more than one. Most are in a CP though.
... requests that people take ownership of the change proposals and expand the rationale etc to make them well formed.

pal: Can we clarify the distinction between issues and change proposals?

glenn: Issues should be Problem Statements and the issue text could include a proposed solution. If it's more than a simple proposal then a CP is useful to more fully document it.
... There may be competing CPs for a single issue. In the past we have not used the CP mechanism very much and have just thrown everything over the fence to the editor who came up with a solution and put it in the spec.
... rather than going through an intermediate discussion via a CP.
... We should try to elaborate proposed solutions more in the CP before the Editor brings the change in. This gives the group the chance to sign up to the change before the Editor folds it in.

nigel: It's also worth considering differnt problems collectively to generate coherent solutions.

glenn: take for example issue-229 - it would be good to put a proposed solution into the change proposal (21).

pal: issue-229 has some of the rationale and background already.

glenn: The CP should propose a solution.
... the CP allows us to develop the solution alongside the rationale to address the set of issues. It can be at varying levels of specificity in terms of the exact edits to make.
... It's also really helpful to create examples, e.g. for the more complex style properties. The less work for the editor the quicker the change gets into the spec.

pal: Sounds great.

nigel: [misses some conversation about CP and process wrt tracker]

pal: The issues are sometimes completely independent.

glenn: in that case they should have separate CPs.

nigel: we need to get ownership on these CPs - we can do this by volunteering or by me volunteering them.

glenn: I'm of the 'pick a victim' preference.

pal: the majority issue owner should be assigned the CP.

jdsmith: I can take on Sean's CPs.

nigel: thanks, I'll reassign them to you.

AOB

rssagent, make logs public

- DRAFT -

Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

30 Jan 2014

Attendees

Contents