<kasei> Present: LeeF, kasei, AndyS, pgearon, swh, Sandro, cbuilara, MattPerry, Chimezie, Arthur, bglimm, EricP, AxelPolleres
13:58:01 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/29-sparql-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/29-sparql-irc ←
13:58:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
13:58:05 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277 ←
13:58:06 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:58:06 <trackbot> Date: 29 May 2012
13:58:07 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes ←
13:58:53 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started ←
13:59:00 <Zakim> +LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF ←
13:59:10 <Zakim> +??P1
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1 ←
13:59:19 <Zakim> +kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei ←
13:59:19 <AndyS> zakim, ??P1 is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P1 is me ←
13:59:20 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
14:00:39 <Zakim> +pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon ←
14:01:11 <Zakim> +??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11 ←
14:01:16 <swh> Zakim, ??P11 is me
Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P11 is me ←
14:01:16 <Zakim> +swh; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +swh; got it ←
14:02:35 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
14:02:52 <Zakim> +??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22 ←
14:02:56 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P22 is me
Carlos Buil Aranda: zakim, ??P22 is me ←
14:03:07 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cbuilara; got it ←
14:03:13 <Zakim> +MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry ←
14:03:34 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
14:03:36 <LeeF> Regrets: Axel
14:04:06 <Zakim> +Chimezie
Zakim IRC Bot: +Chimezie ←
14:04:34 <kasei> scribenick: kasei
(Scribe set to Gregory Williams)
14:04:47 <LeeF> Regrets: Axel, Olivier
14:04:55 <LeeF> topic: Admin
14:05:01 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Accept minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-05-22
PROPOSED: Accept minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-05-22 ←
14:05:16 <Zakim> +Arthur
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arthur ←
14:05:26 <Zakim> +??P37
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P37 ←
14:05:32 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P37 is me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, ??P37 is me ←
14:05:32 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm; got it ←
14:05:33 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Accept minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-05-22
RESOLVED: Accept minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-05-22 ←
14:05:39 <AndyS> +1 to minutes
Andy Seaborne: +1 to minutes ←
14:06:01 <kasei> LeeF: next week is during semtech
Lee Feigenbaum: next week is during semtech ←
14:06:09 <AndyS> and is UK holiday
Andy Seaborne: and is UK holiday ←
14:06:20 <kasei> ... who's going to be there?
... who's going to be there? ←
14:06:27 <AndyS> (Tuesday - not the whole week!)
Andy Seaborne: (Tuesday - not the whole week!) ←
14:06:42 <kasei> ... let's plan on a short telecon.
... let's plan on a short telecon. ←
14:07:04 <kasei> ... will check in on actions, try to make progress where we can.
... will check in on actions, try to make progress where we can. ←
14:07:46 <LeeF> topic: Document Status and To PR
14:07:34 <kasei> LeeF: greg sent email out summarizing test status.
Lee Feigenbaum: greg sent email out summarizing test status. ←
14:07:49 <kasei> ... want to fill in detail on To_PR page. will use email as a guide.
... want to fill in detail on To_PR page. will use email as a guide. ←
14:07:49 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_PR
Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_PR ←
14:08:03 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012AprJun/0182.html
Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012AprJun/0182.html ←
14:08:38 <kasei> LeeF: starting with update.
Lee Feigenbaum: starting with update. ←
14:09:08 <kasei> pgearon: not entirely caught up on update issues.
Paula Gearon: not entirely caught up on update issues. ←
14:09:38 <kasei> LeeF: three questions: what's changed since LC? who will take responsibility for Kjetil's comment? what editorial changes are left?
Lee Feigenbaum: three questions: what's changed since LC? who will take responsibility for Kjetil's comment? what editorial changes are left? ←
14:09:48 <kasei> ... can we come back to update later in the call?
... can we come back to update later in the call? ←
14:09:56 <kasei> pgearon: what comment from Kjetil?
Paula Gearon: what comment from Kjetil? ←
14:10:02 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012May/0023.html
Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012May/0023.html ←
14:10:02 <AxelPolleres> FWIW, bnode reuse across INSERT patterns is solved.
Axel Polleres: FWIW, bnode reuse across INSERT patterns is solved. ←
14:10:26 <AxelPolleres> I have drafted a reply for that one, I think.
Axel Polleres: I have drafted a reply for that one, I think. ←
14:10:30 <LeeF> Subtopic: Protocol
14:10:49 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:KK-15
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:KK-15 ←
14:11:05 <kasei> LeeF: haven't made any changes to Protocol since LC.
Lee Feigenbaum: haven't made any changes to Protocol since LC. ←
14:11:27 <kasei> ... don't need specific reviewers unless we make new changes.
... don't need specific reviewers unless we make new changes. ←
14:11:42 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments
Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments ←
14:12:05 <kasei> ... there are no open protocol comments.
... there are no open protocol comments. ←
14:12:09 <kasei> ... no open issues.
... no open issues. ←
14:13:12 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/protocol-1.1/Overview.xml
Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/protocol-1.1/Overview.xml ←
14:13:30 <AndyS> I see comments (delayed RC-1, RC-2)
Andy Seaborne: I see comments (delayed RC-1, RC-2) ←
14:13:38 <kasei> ... we had added text indicating UTF-8 is the only valid charset for query via POST directly.
... we had added text indicating UTF-8 is the only valid charset for query via POST directly. ←
14:13:46 <kasei> ... we don't say the same thing for update via POST directly.
... we don't say the same thing for update via POST directly. ←
14:14:00 <kasei> ... I think this was just an oversight, and we should say so for both query and update.
... I think this was just an oversight, and we should say so for both query and update. ←
14:14:20 <kasei> ... does anybody have any issues with that?
... does anybody have any issues with that? ←
14:14:31 <AndyS> ... RC-1, RC-2 MLR-1
Andy Seaborne: ... RC-1, RC-2 MLR-1 ←
14:15:03 <AndyS> (old, postponed - may have been answered but not recorded?)
Andy Seaborne: (old, postponed - may have been answered but not recorded?) ←
14:15:29 <kasei> LeeF: need to respond to old comments RC-1, RC-2, MLR-1.
Lee Feigenbaum: need to respond to old comments RC-1, RC-2, MLR-1. ←
14:16:15 <kasei> ... I'll draft responses to these.
... I'll draft responses to these. ←
14:17:18 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to draft responses to RC-1, RC-2, and MLR-1
ACTION: Lee to draft responses to RC-1, RC-2, and MLR-1 ←
14:17:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-627 - Draft responses to RC-1, RC-2, and MLR-1 [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-06-05].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-627 - Draft responses to RC-1, RC-2, and MLR-1 [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-06-05]. ←
14:17:39 <LeeF> q?
Lee Feigenbaum: q? ←
<kasei> subsubtopic: testing
14:18:20 <AndyS> kasei: list of tests for protocol -- work-in-progress
Gregory Williams: list of tests for protocol -- work-in-progress [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
14:18:28 <LeeF> https://gist.github.com/2770483
Lee Feigenbaum: https://gist.github.com/2770483 ←
14:18:34 <AndyS> ... impl a validator
Andy Seaborne: ... impl a validator ←
14:18:43 <AndyS> ... challenges around update
Andy Seaborne: ... challenges around update ←
14:18:55 <kasei> http://kasei.us/2009/09/sparql/protocol_validator.cgi
http://kasei.us/2009/09/sparql/protocol_validator.cgi ←
14:19:44 <AndyS> Leef: where does the dataset come from?
Lee Feigenbaum: where does the dataset come from? [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
14:20:15 <AndyS> kasei: end point can refuse with and also without a dataset
Gregory Williams: end point can refuse with and also without a dataset [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
14:20:26 <AndyS> ... makes testing tricky
Andy Seaborne: ... makes testing tricky ←
14:21:15 <AndyS> (offline to check tests against Fuseki)
Andy Seaborne: (offline to check tests against Fuseki) ←
14:21:31 <AndyS> LeeF: collect endpoints and deal with what we get.
Lee Feigenbaum: collect endpoints and deal with what we get. [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
14:22:08 <AndyS> kasei: OK for query ... but update is harder
Gregory Williams: OK for query ... but update is harder [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
14:22:22 <AndyS> LeeF: Ask for targets to be provided
Lee Feigenbaum: Ask for targets to be provided [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
14:22:59 <AndyS> ... can put up a endpoint for Anzo.
Andy Seaborne: ... can put up a endpoint for Anzo. ←
14:23:34 <AndyS> ... like query, ask for implementers to contact WG (off list!) for testing points.
Andy Seaborne: ... like query, ask for implementers to contact WG (off list!) for testing points. ←
14:23:51 <kasei> LeeF: will need to approve the tests.
Lee Feigenbaum: will need to approve the tests. ←
14:24:06 <AndyS> ... need to do: complete tests, approve tests
Andy Seaborne: ... need to do: complete tests, approve tests ←
14:24:20 <AndyS> kasei: Some tests need refining
Gregory Williams: Some tests need refining [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
14:24:55 <AndyS> ... currently (hesitantly) fairly complete
Andy Seaborne: ... currently (hesitantly) fairly complete ←
14:25:06 <AndyS> LeeF: I will review the tests
Lee Feigenbaum: I will review the tests [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
14:25:08 <kasei> LeeF: if you can finish specing out the tests on the github page...
Lee Feigenbaum: if you can finish specing out the tests on the github page... ←
14:25:43 <kasei> ... work with Andy to get a Fuseki endpoint that we can run it against, and yours. Maybe Anzo as well.
... work with Andy to get a Fuseki endpoint that we can run it against, and yours. Maybe Anzo as well. ←
14:25:45 <AndyS> ... for approving, RDF:Query ep, Anzo ap, Jena ap
Andy Seaborne: ... for approving, RDF:Query ep, Anzo ap, Jena ap ←
14:26:10 <AndyS> ... validate the validator
Andy Seaborne: ... validate the validator ←
14:27:02 <LeeF> ACTION: Greg to complete specification of protocol tests at https://gist.github.com/2770483
ACTION: Greg to complete specification of protocol tests at https://gist.github.com/2770483 ←
14:27:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-628 - Complete specification of protocol tests at https://gist.github.com/2770483 [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-06-05].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-628 - Complete specification of protocol tests at https://gist.github.com/2770483 [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-06-05]. ←
14:27:13 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to review protocol test specifications pending completion of ACTION-628
ACTION: Lee to review protocol test specifications pending completion of ACTION-628 ←
14:27:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-629 - Review protocol test specifications pending completion of ACTION-628 [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-06-05].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-629 - Review protocol test specifications pending completion of ACTION-628 [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-06-05]. ←
14:27:29 <LeeF> ACTION: Greg to complete implementation of validator pending completion of ACTION-628
ACTION: Greg to complete implementation of validator pending completion of ACTION-628 ←
14:27:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-630 - Complete implementation of validator pending completion of ACTION-628 [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-06-05].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-630 - Complete implementation of validator pending completion of ACTION-628 [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-06-05]. ←
14:27:58 <LeeF> ACTION: Greg to work with Andy (and possibly Lee, others) to check validator with existing protocol implementations pending completion of ACTION-630
ACTION: Greg to work with Andy (and possibly Lee, others) to check validator with existing protocol implementations pending completion of ACTION-630 ←
14:27:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-631 - Work with Andy (and possibly Lee, others) to check validator with existing protocol implementations pending completion of ACTION-630 [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-06-05].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-631 - Work with Andy (and possibly Lee, others) to check validator with existing protocol implementations pending completion of ACTION-630 [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-06-05]. ←
14:28:15 <kasei> LeeF: once we've done these actions, should be able to approve protocol tests.
Lee Feigenbaum: once we've done these actions, should be able to approve protocol tests. ←
14:28:16 <LeeF> ACTION-631?
14:28:16 <trackbot> ACTION-631 -- Gregory Williams to work with Andy (and possibly Lee, others) to check validator with existing protocol implementations pending completion of ACTION-630 -- due 2012-06-05 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-631 -- Gregory Williams to work with Andy (and possibly Lee, others) to check validator with existing protocol implementations pending completion of ACTION-630 -- due 2012-06-05 -- OPEN ←
14:28:16 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/631
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/631 ←
14:29:11 <kasei> ... does Fuseki implement all the ways of sending queries?
... does Fuseki implement all the ways of sending queries? ←
14:29:14 <kasei> AndyS: yes.
Andy Seaborne: yes. ←
14:29:54 <kasei> kasei: I support all methods as well.
Gregory Williams: I support all methods as well. ←
14:30:01 <kasei> LeeF: I'm not sure we support them all in Anzo yet.
Lee Feigenbaum: I'm not sure we support them all in Anzo yet. ←
14:30:12 <kasei> ... anybody else?
... anybody else? ←
14:30:28 <swh> pretty sure ours is not complete
Steve Harris: pretty sure ours is not complete ←
14:30:30 <swh> either of them
Steve Harris: either of them ←
<kasei> subtopic: Service Description
14:30:52 <LeeF> kasei: no significant changes since last call
Gregory Williams: no significant changes since last call [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
14:31:24 <AndyS> kasei: no editorial known.
Gregory Williams: no editorial known. [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
14:31:34 <AndyS> ... one comment (Chime drafted)
Andy Seaborne: ... one comment (Chime drafted) ←
14:32:32 <kasei> LeeF: no ack on MO-1?
Lee Feigenbaum: no ack on MO-1? ←
14:32:34 <kasei> kasei: no.
Gregory Williams: no. ←
14:33:45 <kasei> LeeF: I'll send a ping on MO-1.
Lee Feigenbaum: I'll send a ping on MO-1. ←
14:34:37 <kasei> ... sent.
... sent. ←
14:35:22 <kasei> ... no ack from TI-3.
... no ack from TI-3. ←
14:35:29 <kasei> ... will send a ping on TI-3, also.
... will send a ping on TI-3, also. ←
14:36:53 <kasei> ... KR-1?
... KR-1? ←
14:37:12 <kasei> ... will follow up offlist to clarify status.
... will follow up offlist to clarify status. ←
14:37:48 <kasei> ... all comments have been responded to.
... all comments have been responded to. ←
14:38:06 <kasei> ... no issues.
... no issues. ←
14:38:28 <LeeF> kasei: i have the SD validator
Gregory Williams: i have the SD validator [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
14:38:30 <LeeF> ... conformance is minimal
Lee Feigenbaum: ... conformance is minimal ←
14:38:35 <LeeF> ... we only have my implementation right now
Lee Feigenbaum: ... we only have my implementation right now ←
14:38:42 <LeeF> ... there might be others, and conformant support is trivial
Lee Feigenbaum: ... there might be others, and conformant support is trivial ←
14:38:54 <kasei> LeeF: any other implementations of SD?
Lee Feigenbaum: any other implementations of SD? ←
14:39:10 <kasei> ... what about validating the validator? approving the tests?
... what about validating the validator? approving the tests? ←
14:39:16 <AndyS> Validator is where?
Andy Seaborne: Validator is where? ←
14:39:17 <chimezie> I have a bare bones implementation of SD
Chimezie Ogbuji: I have a bare bones implementation of SD ←
14:39:46 <kasei> http://kasei.us/2009/09/sparql/sdvalidator.cgi
http://kasei.us/2009/09/sparql/sdvalidator.cgi ←
14:39:59 <kasei> https://github.com/kasei/sparql11-sdvalidator
https://github.com/kasei/sparql11-sdvalidator ←
14:40:20 <kasei> chimezie: I have a basic SD implementation.
Chimezie Ogbuji: I have a basic SD implementation. ←
14:40:51 <LeeF> ACTION: Greg to document what the service description validator tests
ACTION: Greg to document what the service description validator tests ←
14:40:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-632 - Document what the service description validator tests [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-06-05].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-632 - Document what the service description validator tests [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-06-05]. ←
14:40:53 <kasei> LeeF: is there any documentation for the SD validator?
Lee Feigenbaum: is there any documentation for the SD validator? ←
14:40:57 <kasei> kasei: no. I'll add some.
Gregory Williams: no. I'll add some. ←
14:41:12 <LeeF> ACTION: Chimezie to put his SD implementation public somewhere & try the SD validator against it
ACTION: Chimezie to put his SD implementation public somewhere & try the SD validator against it ←
14:41:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-633 - Put his SD implementation public somewhere & try the SD validator against it [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2012-06-05].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-633 - Put his SD implementation public somewhere & try the SD validator against it [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2012-06-05]. ←
14:41:55 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to look over the SD validator code (https://github.com/kasei/sparql11-sdvalidator/blob/master/sdvalidator.cgi)
ACTION: Lee to look over the SD validator code (https://github.com/kasei/sparql11-sdvalidator/blob/master/sdvalidator.cgi) ←
14:41:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-634 - Look over the SD validator code (https://github.com/kasei/sparql11-sdvalidator/blob/master/sdvalidator.cgi) [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-06-05].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-634 - Look over the SD validator code (https://github.com/kasei/sparql11-sdvalidator/blob/master/sdvalidator.cgi) [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-06-05]. ←
14:42:02 <LeeF> ACTION-632
14:42:04 <LeeF> ACTION-632?
14:42:04 <trackbot> ACTION-632 -- Gregory Williams to document what the service description validator tests -- due 2012-06-05 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-632 -- Gregory Williams to document what the service description validator tests -- due 2012-06-05 -- OPEN ←
14:42:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/632
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/632 ←
14:43:03 <kasei> LeeF: does anybody else have plans to implement SD in coming weeks?
Lee Feigenbaum: does anybody else have plans to implement SD in coming weeks? ←
14:43:11 <swh> I have an impl. but it's out of date
Steve Harris: I have an impl. but it's out of date ←
14:43:16 <swh> might be able to update it
Steve Harris: might be able to update it ←
14:43:27 <AndyS> Hope to tweak things but no guarantees
Andy Seaborne: Hope to tweak things but no guarantees ←
14:43:44 <kasei> LeeF: suspect ericP might have an implementation of SD.
Lee Feigenbaum: suspect ericP might have an implementation of SD. ←
14:43:56 <kasei> sandro: I don't think so. Possible, but haven't heard him mention it.
Sandro Hawke: I don't think so. Possible, but haven't heard him mention it. ←
14:44:01 <kasei> LeeF: I'll ping him about it.
Lee Feigenbaum: I'll ping him about it. ←
14:44:16 <Arthur> We plan to implement, but are a few months away
Arthur Keen: We plan to implement, but are a few months away ←
14:44:43 <LeeF> thanks, Arthur
Lee Feigenbaum: thanks, Arthur ←
<kasei> subtopic: Graph Store Protocol
14:44:45 <kasei> LeeF: regarding GSP, chime drafted responses to outstanding comments.
Lee Feigenbaum: regarding GSP, chime drafted responses to outstanding comments. ←
14:45:01 <kasei> ... can somebody take a look at chime's drafts?
... can somebody take a look at chime's drafts? ←
14:45:20 <kasei> kasei: I did this morning. Sent a comment about it.
Gregory Williams: I did this morning. Sent a comment about it. ←
14:47:20 <ericP> huh, i don't think i have much SD outside of a little demo mode which claims something to be a DOAP project
Eric Prud'hommeaux: huh, i don't think i have much SD outside of a little demo mode which claims something to be a DOAP project ←
14:47:26 <ericP> need one for CR?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: need one for CR? ←
14:47:28 <LeeF> ok, thanks ericP
Lee Feigenbaum: ok, thanks ericP ←
14:47:29 <kasei> LeeF: maybe we remove the word "REST"?
Lee Feigenbaum: maybe we remove the word "REST"? ←
14:47:36 <LeeF> ericP, maybe but probably not
Lee Feigenbaum: ericP, maybe but probably not ←
14:47:49 <kasei> chimezie: the more important part of the response is that what's being asked for is out of scope for the GSP.
Chimezie Ogbuji: the more important part of the response is that what's being asked for is out of scope for the GSP. ←
14:47:50 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
14:48:13 <kasei> chimezie: I'm not sure why it's not RESTful.
Chimezie Ogbuji: I'm not sure why it's not RESTful. ←
14:50:11 <kasei> kasei: this violates HATEOAS
Gregory Williams: this violates HATEOAS ←
14:50:35 <ericP> chimezie, as soon as you define a API then you've violated the generalized mechanism of HTTP
Eric Prud'hommeaux: chimezie, as soon as you define a API then you've violated the generalized mechanism of HTTP ←
14:51:12 <kasei> chimezie: we've tied our own hands on this, because we've decided service description is out of scope for GSP.
Chimezie Ogbuji: we've tied our own hands on this, because we've decided service description is out of scope for GSP. ←
14:51:43 <kasei> LeeF: we're not doing full REST because it's not practical at this point. we do have an HTTP API.
Lee Feigenbaum: we're not doing full REST because it's not practical at this point. we do have an HTTP API. ←
14:52:00 <kasei> ... do we remove any mention of REST? or do we add a note saying it's "REST-ish", but not actually REST?
... do we remove any mention of REST? or do we add a note saying it's "REST-ish", but not actually REST? ←
14:52:28 <kasei> sandro: the SD gives you a URI for the dataset.
Sandro Hawke: the SD gives you a URI for the dataset. ←
14:52:52 <kasei> ... why don't we take out indirect reference?
... why don't we take out indirect reference? ←
14:52:55 <AndyS> q+ to look at where REST is used in doc
Andy Seaborne: q+ to look at where REST is used in doc ←
14:53:10 <kasei> ... in practice, you'd have to not use graph names outside of your control (which is a best practice anyway)
... in practice, you'd have to not use graph names outside of your control (which is a best practice anyway) ←
14:53:27 <kasei> chimezie: I think parts of REST are dogma.
Chimezie Ogbuji: I think parts of REST are dogma. ←
14:53:47 <LeeF> q+ to respond to Sandro's suggestion
Lee Feigenbaum: q+ to respond to Sandro's suggestion ←
14:53:57 <kasei> ... the question of HATEOAS is dogmatic.
... the question of HATEOAS is dogmatic. ←
14:54:11 <kasei> sandro: i've beent hinking of what are good ways to deal with datasets.
Sandro Hawke: i've beent hinking of what are good ways to deal with datasets. ←
14:54:26 <kasei> ... if you're using somebody else's URI as a graph name, if somebody wants to find out what's there, they might as well ask the someone else.
... if you're using somebody else's URI as a graph name, if somebody wants to find out what's there, they might as well ask the someone else. ←
14:54:32 <AndyS> I see it used in abstract, intro, terminology, PATCH, references
Andy Seaborne: I see it used in abstract, intro, terminology, PATCH, references ←
14:54:38 <kasei> ... if they don't want to do REST, they should use SPARQL.
... if they don't want to do REST, they should use SPARQL. ←
14:54:45 <swh> This is a usecase we have now
Steve Harris: This is a usecase we have now ←
14:55:57 <kasei> sandro: the dataset uri is something they pick.
Sandro Hawke: the dataset uri is something they pick. ←
14:56:13 <kasei> AndyS: can we discuss where "REST" is used in the document?
Andy Seaborne: can we discuss where "REST" is used in the document? ←
14:56:40 <kasei> LeeF: I think a lot of people want to be able to use HTTP operations on a graph store which has graphs which may not have http URIs or be on the same host as the GSP implementation.
Lee Feigenbaum: I think a lot of people want to be able to use HTTP operations on a graph store which has graphs which may not have http URIs or be on the same host as the GSP implementation. ←
14:57:01 <swh> +1 to LeeF
Steve Harris: +1 to LeeF ←
14:57:19 <kasei> sandro: you wouldn't have this architectural problem if you used SPARQL instead of GSP for those use cases.
Sandro Hawke: you wouldn't have this architectural problem if you used SPARQL instead of GSP for those use cases. ←
14:57:30 <kasei> ... practically it would be much easier, because you wouldn't have to get the SD.
... practically it would be much easier, because you wouldn't have to get the SD. ←
14:57:56 <kasei> LeeF: because of time, let's not make a decision on this now.
Lee Feigenbaum: because of time, let's not make a decision on this now. ←
14:58:08 <kasei> ... we'll try to take this up again next week or the week after.
... we'll try to take this up again next week or the week after. ←
14:58:36 <kasei> AndyS: only found REST in abstract, intro, a few other places. Not used very much.
Andy Seaborne: only found REST in abstract, intro, a few other places. Not used very much. ←
14:58:40 <sandro> NO -- I'm not saying use SPARQL , I'm saying make indirect reference parse of SPARQL Protocol.
Sandro Hawke: NO -- I'm not saying use SPARQL , I'm saying make indirect reference parse of SPARQL Protocol. ←
14:58:42 <kasei> LeeF: who would object to removing the term "REST"?
Lee Feigenbaum: who would object to removing the term "REST"? ←
14:59:32 <kasei> chimezie: the term is used minimally to avoid this type of angels on a pinhead conversation.
Chimezie Ogbuji: the term is used minimally to avoid this type of angels on a pinhead conversation. ←
14:59:50 <kasei> ... if you don't refer to REST it makes it harder for a developer to comprehend.
... if you don't refer to REST it makes it harder for a developer to comprehend. ←
15:00:26 <kasei> AndyS: I have sympathy for that argument. "hardcore REST" vs. "REST style".
Andy Seaborne: I have sympathy for that argument. "hardcore REST" vs. "REST style". ←
15:00:40 <kasei> ... we could appeal to HTTP rather than saying it's part of "REST".
... we could appeal to HTTP rather than saying it's part of "REST". ←
15:00:55 <kasei> ... we want "do the natural thing in accordance with good style"
... we want "do the natural thing in accordance with good style" ←
15:00:55 <sandro> +1 andy -- just reference HTTP not REST, as a way through this, maybe....
Sandro Hawke: +1 andy -- just reference HTTP not REST, as a way through this, maybe.... ←
15:00:56 <swh> +1 to AndyS
Steve Harris: +1 to AndyS ←
15:01:17 <kasei> ... don't want to get into arguments about having to use http URIs for things, because there are reasons to use urns, etc.
... don't want to get into arguments about having to use http URIs for things, because there are reasons to use urns, etc. ←
15:01:33 <kasei> LeeF: Andy's suggestion is very appealing to me.
Lee Feigenbaum: Andy's suggestion is very appealing to me. ←
15:02:03 <kasei> ... share chimezie's worldview, but it may be the best compromise to appeal to HTTP instead of REST.
... share chimezie's worldview, but it may be the best compromise to appeal to HTTP instead of REST. ←
15:02:22 <kasei> AndyS: long-running situation which led to HATEOAS.
Andy Seaborne: long-running situation which led to HATEOAS. ←
15:02:53 <kasei> chimezie: it makes sense. the parts of REST I think of as engineering principles correspond one-to-one with HTTP.
Chimezie Ogbuji: it makes sense. the parts of REST I think of as engineering principles correspond one-to-one with HTTP. ←
15:03:28 <kasei> ... I'm convinced that it's the prudent thing to do. Emphasize conformance to HTTP, remove "REST".
... I'm convinced that it's the prudent thing to do. Emphasize conformance to HTTP, remove "REST". ←
15:03:46 <kasei> sandro: should we mention "REST" as "some people might call this REST"?
Sandro Hawke: should we mention "REST" as "some people might call this REST"? ←
15:04:03 <bglimm> sorry, I have another meeting now and can't stay longer... talk to you next week
Birte Glimm: sorry, I have another meeting now and can't stay longer... talk to you next week ←
15:04:23 <kasei> chimezie: unless not mentioning REST would cause somebody to object, I don't see the value in keeping it in.
Chimezie Ogbuji: unless not mentioning REST would cause somebody to object, I don't see the value in keeping it in. ←
15:04:35 <kasei> LeeF: upside is that if somebody searches for "SPARQL REST", they're more likely to find the document.
Lee Feigenbaum: upside is that if somebody searches for "SPARQL REST", they're more likely to find the document. ←
15:04:46 <kasei> sandro: but somebody will write a blog post that they find anyway.
Sandro Hawke: but somebody will write a blog post that they find anyway. ←
15:05:06 <kasei> LeeF: mentioning REST will cause people to have the concerns they've already expressed.
Lee Feigenbaum: mentioning REST will cause people to have the concerns they've already expressed. ←
15:05:17 <kasei> chimezie: would that be an editorial change?
Chimezie Ogbuji: would that be an editorial change? ←
15:05:23 <kasei> LeeF: I think the WG would consider that editorial.
Lee Feigenbaum: I think the WG would consider that editorial. ←
15:05:53 <kasei> ... sandro, would you like to still explore the indirect identification stuff?
... sandro, would you like to still explore the indirect identification stuff? ←
15:05:55 <kasei> sandro: no.
Sandro Hawke: no. ←
15:06:10 <kasei> LeeF: if we had a resolution about this, we should have a new one.
Lee Feigenbaum: if we had a resolution about this, we should have a new one. ←
15:06:21 <kasei> ... but that shouldn't stop you from rewording in the document.
... but that shouldn't stop you from rewording in the document. ←
15:06:40 <swh> sorry, have to go, late for another call
Steve Harris: sorry, have to go, late for another call ←
15:06:46 <LeeF> ACTION: Chimezie to draft text for GSP that replaces REST references with HTTP references and send summary/diff to the mailing list
ACTION: Chimezie to draft text for GSP that replaces REST references with HTTP references and send summary/diff to the mailing list ←
15:06:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-635 - Draft text for GSP that replaces REST references with HTTP references and send summary/diff to the mailing list [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2012-06-05].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-635 - Draft text for GSP that replaces REST references with HTTP references and send summary/diff to the mailing list [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2012-06-05]. ←
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