Meeting Record

RDF-in-XHTML Task Force

Minutes of 05 March 2007

Agenda

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Mar/0013.html

Seen

Unknown Ben_Adida, Unknown EliasT, Unknown MarkB_, Unknown Michael, Unknown Ralph, Unknown RalphS, Unknown Simone, Unknown Steven, Unknown Steven_, Unknown Wing, Unknown benadida, Unknown mhausenblas, Unknown wing

Chair

Unknown Ben

Scribe

Unknown RalphS, Unknown benadida

IRC Log

Original

Resolutions

None.

Topics

Action Items
Latest Documents (Primer and Scenarios)
Test Suite Update
XHTML 1.1 Module Update
5. Setting a Schedule

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13:49:25 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc ←

13:49:37 <RalphS> Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML Task Force

13:49:46 <RalphS> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Mar/0013.html

13:50:36 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes Previous 2007-02-12

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: -> http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes Previous 2007-02-12 ←

13:50:42 <RalphS> rrsagent, please make record public

Unknown RalphS: rrsagent, please make record public ←

13:54:49 <mhausenblas> zakim, who is on the call?

Scribe problem: the name 'mhausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown mhausenblas: zakim, who is on the call? ←

13:54:49 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)9:00AM has not yet started, mhausenblas

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)9:00AM has not yet started, mhausenblas ←

13:54:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see Steven_, RRSAgent, Zakim, RalphS, mhausenblas, Simone

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Steven_, RRSAgent, Zakim, RalphS, mhausenblas, Simone ←

13:59:22 <Steven_> , XForms Working Group, W3C

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven_' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Steven_: ←

13:59:48 <Steven_> sorry, ignore that

Unknown Steven_: sorry, ignore that ←

14:00:01 <Steven_> s/, XForms Working Group, W3C//

14:00:05 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)9:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)9:00AM has now started ←

14:00:12 <Zakim> +Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ralph ←

14:00:29 <Zakim> +??P5

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P5 ←

14:00:43 <RalphS> zakim, ??p5 is Michael

Unknown RalphS: zakim, ??p5 is Michael ←

14:00:43 <Zakim> +Michael; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Michael; got it ←

14:00:46 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBMCambridge] ←

14:00:56 <RalphS> zakim, ibm is Wing

Unknown RalphS: zakim, ibm is Wing ←

14:00:56 <Zakim> sorry, RalphS, I do not recognize a party named 'ibm'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, RalphS, I do not recognize a party named 'ibm' ←

14:01:02 <RalphS> zakim, ibmcambridge is Wing

Unknown RalphS: zakim, ibmcambridge is Wing ←

14:01:02 <Zakim> +Wing; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Wing; got it ←

14:01:13 <Steven_> zakim, dial steven-617

Unknown Steven_: zakim, dial steven-617 ←

14:01:14 <Zakim> ok, Steven_; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven_; the call is being made ←

14:01:17 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←

14:01:50 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

14:01:51 <Simone> Zakim, Ipcaller is Simone

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Unknown Simone: Zakim, Ipcaller is Simone ←

14:01:54 <Zakim> +Simone; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Simone; got it ←

14:02:08 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ben_Adida ←

14:03:13 <RalphS> Chair: Ben

Scribe problem: the name 'Ben' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

14:03:35 <RalphS> zakim, pick a victim

Unknown RalphS: zakim, pick a victim ←

14:03:35 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Michael

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Michael ←

14:03:47 <RalphS> Scribe: Ralph

(Scribe set to Unknown RalphS)

14:04:01 <Zakim> +EliasT

Zakim IRC Bot: +EliasT ←

14:04:25 <EliasT> Zakim, who's on the phone?

Scribe problem: the name 'EliasT' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown EliasT: Zakim, who's on the phone? ←

14:04:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ralph, Michael, Wing, Steven, Simone, Ben_Adida, EliasT

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ralph, Michael, Wing, Steven, Simone, Ben_Adida, EliasT ←

14:05:26 <benadida> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Mar/0013.html

14:05:29 <RalphS> Simone: my name is pronounced (as Ralph hears it) "see moan eh"

Unknown Simone: my name is pronounced (as Ralph hears it) "see moan eh" ←

14:06:13 <RalphS> Topic: Action Items

1. Action Items

14:06:51 <RalphS> ACTION: Michael to prepare RDF/XML - RDFa comparison wiki page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action09]

ACTION: Michael to prepare RDF/XML - RDFa comparison wiki page [recorded in ACTION-09]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-09] ←

14:07:01 <RalphS> Michael: I agreed to support that action for Ben

Scribe problem: the name 'Michael' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Michael: I agreed to support that action for Ben ←

14:07:01 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/#sec4 RiR

Unknown mhausenblas: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/#sec4 RiR ←

14:07:35 <Zakim> +??P15

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15 ←

14:07:38 <RalphS> Michael: RiR is meant to be a list of features supported by RDFa

Unknown Michael: RiR is meant to be a list of features supported by RDFa ←

14:07:39 <MarkB_> zakim, i am ?

Scribe problem: the name 'MarkB_' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown MarkB_: zakim, i am ? ←

14:07:39 <Zakim> +MarkB_; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MarkB_; got it ←

14:07:55 <RalphS> ... e.g. containers probably are 'in', reification is probably 'out'

... e.g. containers probably are 'in', reification is probably 'out' ←

14:08:20 <RalphS> ... I can add more detail to the list and I may have missed some features

... I can add more detail to the list and I may have missed some features ←

14:08:52 <RalphS> Ben: TimBL might add some examples of N3 that cannot be expressed in RDFa

Scribe problem: the name 'Ben' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ben: TimBL might add some examples of N3 that cannot be expressed in RDFa ←

14:09:08 <RalphS> ... what are the 'levels' meant to indicate?

... what are the 'levels' meant to indicate? ←

14:09:18 <RalphS> Michael: links point to QA document

Unknown Michael: links point to QA document ←

14:09:29 <RalphS> ... allows for incremental enhancement of a spec

... allows for incremental enhancement of a spec ←

14:09:58 <RalphS> Ben: I worry this idea of 'levels' might imply more complication than there really is

Unknown Ben: I worry this idea of 'levels' might imply more complication than there really is ←

14:10:39 <RalphS> Michael: we should decide whether to say 'this is all we support and no more' or indicate possible future features

Unknown Michael: we should decide whether to say 'this is all we support and no more' or indicate possible future features ←

14:10:52 <RalphS> -- continues

-- continues ←

14:11:31 <RalphS> Ralph: is it still useful to have a Wiki page so the community can edit?

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: is it still useful to have a Wiki page so the community can edit? ←

14:11:39 <RalphS> Ben: I think so

Unknown Ben: I think so ←

14:11:56 <RalphS> Michael: I can prepare a discussion of this in the Wiki

Unknown Michael: I can prepare a discussion of this in the Wiki ←

14:12:13 <RalphS> ... don't want to duplicate work

... don't want to duplicate work ←

14:12:20 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Ralph to check if the test suite can be hosted at the W3C--is Tomcat available? [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]

[DONE] ACTION: Ralph to check if the test suite can be hosted at the W3C--is Tomcat available? [recorded in ACTION-04]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-04] ←

14:12:56 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Feb/0130.html action progress: test suite hosting [Ralph 2007-02-26]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Feb/0130.html action progress: test suite hosting [Ralph 2007-02-26] ←

14:13:04 <RalphS> ACTION: Steven to put together sample XHTML2 doc with all mime type, etc. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action07]

ACTION: Steven to put together sample XHTML2 doc with all mime type, etc. [recorded in ACTION-07]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-07] ←

14:13:06 <RalphS> -- continues

-- continues ←

14:15:22 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben start a list of RDF/XML features that are not supported by RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action08]

ACTION: Ben start a list of RDF/XML features that are not supported by RDFa [recorded in ACTION-08]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-08] ←

14:15:24 <RalphS> -- continues

-- continues ←

14:15:52 <RalphS> [WITHDRAWN] ACTION: Ben to contemplate about the Dev Track [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/05-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]

[WITHDRAWN] ACTION: Ben to contemplate about the Dev Track [recorded in ACTION-01]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/05-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-01] ←

14:16:04 <RalphS> Ben: I thought about it so long that I missed the deadline

Unknown Ben: I thought about it so long that I missed the deadline ←

14:16:37 <RalphS> ... I might talk during the W3C track

... I might talk during the W3C track ←

14:16:41 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action10]

ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in ACTION-10]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-10] ←

14:16:43 <RalphS> -- continues

-- continues ←

14:17:11 <RalphS> Ben: making some progress; Use Case document updated to include a little bit of Science Commons example

Unknown Ben: making some progress; Use Case document updated to include a little bit of Science Commons example ←

14:17:22 <RalphS> ... still hope for a big realistic example to include

... still hope for a big realistic example to include ←

14:17:28 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben to update RDFa schedule on wiki to aim for last call on June 1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action05]

ACTION: Ben to update RDFa schedule on wiki to aim for last call on June 1 [recorded in ACTION-05]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-05] ←

14:17:32 <RalphS> -- continues

-- continues ←

14:17:35 <RalphS> Ben: I'd like feedback on this

Unknown Ben: I'd like feedback on this ←

14:17:48 <RalphS> ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action12]

ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in ACTION-12]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-12] ←

14:18:16 <RalphS> Elias: I also am looking for a use case that adds more specifics

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Unknown Elias: I also am looking for a use case that adds more specifics ←

14:18:32 <RalphS> ... deciding whether to go to WWW2007 or XTech; I submitted an RDFa/GRDDL talk

... deciding whether to go to WWW2007 or XTech; I submitted an RDFa/GRDDL talk ←

14:19:52 <RalphS> Ben: a Use Case can be more abstract; can show "here's the triples we'd like to produce"

Unknown Ben: a Use Case can be more abstract; can show "here's the triples we'd like to produce" ←

14:19:56 <RalphS> -- continues

-- continues ←

14:20:15 <RalphS> ACTION: Mark produce more examples of applicability of n-ary relations from IPTC documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action13]

ACTION: Mark produce more examples of applicability of n-ary relations from IPTC documents [recorded in ACTION-13]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-13] ←

14:20:17 <RalphS> -- continues

-- continues ←

14:21:01 <RalphS> ACTION: Michael continue work on the FAQ template that Elias started [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action15]

ACTION: Michael continue work on the FAQ template that Elias started [recorded in ACTION-15]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-15] ←

14:21:04 <RalphS> -- continues

-- continues ←

14:21:53 <mhausenblas> -> http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa#FAQ RDFa FAQ

Unknown mhausenblas: -> http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa#FAQ RDFa FAQ ←

14:22:47 <RalphS> Ben: Simone, comments on the FAQ from your new fresh eyes would be especially useful

Unknown Ben: Simone, comments on the FAQ from your new fresh eyes would be especially useful ←

14:23:06 <RalphS> Topic: Latest Documents (Primer and Scenarios)

2. Latest Documents (Primer and Scenarios)

14:23:20 <RalphS> Ben: I commited new updates to Primer and Scenarios on Friday

Unknown Ben: I commited new updates to Primer and Scenarios on Friday ←

14:23:29 <RalphS> ... mostly editorial, related to comments received

... mostly editorial, related to comments received ←

14:23:30 <Zakim> -EliasT

Zakim IRC Bot: -EliasT ←

14:23:59 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Mar/0004.html Update to RDFa Scenarios, including response to Comments [Ben 2007-03-02]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Mar/0004.html Update to RDFa Scenarios, including response to Comments [Ben 2007-03-02] ←

14:24:07 <Zakim> +EliasT

Zakim IRC Bot: +EliasT ←

14:24:18 <RalphS> Ben: one comment remaining on clarifying the predicates should be cleaned up

Unknown Ben: one comment remaining on clarifying the predicates should be cleaned up ←

14:24:34 <RalphS> ... the document currently assumes namespaced classes

... the document currently assumes namespaced classes ←

14:24:51 <RalphS> ... are we comfortable enough with this to publish these WDs as they are?

... are we comfortable enough with this to publish these WDs as they are? ←

14:25:13 <RalphS> Ralph: "publish, publish, publish"  It's not going to be perfect

Unknown Ralph: "publish, publish, publish" It's not going to be perfect ←

14:26:13 <RalphS> Steven: don't say I didn't warn you

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Steven: don't say I didn't warn you ←

14:27:13 <Zakim> -EliasT

Zakim IRC Bot: -EliasT ←

14:27:18 <RalphS> Ralph: WAI-ARIA is emphasizing use of @role, so I certainly don't think this discussion is over

Unknown Ralph: WAI-ARIA is emphasizing use of @role, so I certainly don't think this discussion is over ←

14:27:23 <RalphS> ... but let's publish and get comments

... but let's publish and get comments ←

14:27:34 <EliasT> EliasT: I'm +1 to publishing. (dialing back in)

Unknown EliasT: I'm +1 to publishing. (dialing back in) [ Scribe Assist by Unknown EliasT ] ←

14:27:42 <RalphS> PROPOSE: publish Primer and Scenarios as WDs

Scribe problem: the name 'PROPOSE' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown PROPOSE: publish Primer and Scenarios as WDs ←

14:27:43 <mhausenblas> +1

Unknown mhausenblas: +1 ←

14:27:45 <wing> +1

Scribe problem: the name 'wing' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown wing: +1 ←

14:27:47 <RalphS> +1

+1 ←

14:27:47 <Simone> +1

Unknown Simone: +1 ←

14:27:59 <Zakim> +EliasT

Zakim IRC Bot: +EliasT ←

14:28:07 <RalphS> Steven: warning, re: use of @class

Unknown Steven: warning, re: use of @class ←

14:28:24 <RalphS> RESOLVED Ask WG to publish Primer and Scenarios as WDs

RESOLVED Ask WG to publish Primer and Scenarios as WDs ←

14:29:03 <RalphS> Ben: I would like to respond to Antiones comment about multiple @rel and @property before publishing; I think it is one sentence

Unknown Ben: I would like to respond to Antoine's comment about multiple @rel and @property before publishing; I think it is one sentence ←

14:29:13 <RalphS> s/Antoines/Antoine's/

s/Antoines/Antoine's/ (warning: replacement failed) ←

14:29:46 <RalphS> Topic: Test Suite Update

3. Test Suite Update

14:29:58 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/ RDFa Test Suite

-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/ RDFa Test Suite ←

14:30:08 <RalphS> Ben: we're not providing enough feedback on the test suite

Unknown Ben: we're not providing enough feedback on the test suite ←

14:30:09 <mhausenblas> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Mar/0010.html

Unknown mhausenblas: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Mar/0010.html ←

14:30:20 <RalphS> Michael: DanC has given us lots of test suite feedback

Unknown Michael: DanC has given us lots of test suite feedback ←

14:30:37 <Zakim> -MarkB_

Zakim IRC Bot: -MarkB_ ←

14:30:50 <RalphS> ... I'd like us to settle whether we're going to try to do conformance testing or not

... I'd like us to settle whether we're going to try to do conformance testing or not ←

14:30:51 <MarkB_> back in a sec

Unknown MarkB_: back in a sec ←

14:31:29 <RalphS> ... I would like just to claim that "any tool that claims to be RDFa-compliant has to correctly parse all the test cases"

... I would like just to claim that "any tool that claims to be RDFa-compliant has to correctly parse all the test cases" ←

14:31:45 <RalphS> ... i.e. test suite is necessary but may not be sufficient

... i.e. passing test suite is necessary but may not be sufficient ←

14:31:57 <RalphS> s/test/passing test/

14:32:15 <RalphS> ... DanC was commenting about what conformance testing could or should be

... DanC was commenting about what conformance testing could or should be ←

14:32:32 <RalphS> ... he felt that we could not do conformance testing

... he felt that we could not do conformance testing ←

14:32:53 <RalphS> ... I hope to prove that something is conforming but not to try to prove non-conformance

... I hope to prove that something is conforming but not to try to prove non-conformance ←

14:33:24 <RalphS> ... many specifications already provide conformance tests, though perhaps not as strong as what I envision

... many specifications already provide conformance tests, though perhaps not as strong as what I envision ←

14:33:41 <Zakim> +??P16

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P16 ←

14:33:43 <MarkB_> zakim, i am ?

Unknown MarkB_: zakim, i am ? ←

14:33:44 <RalphS> Elias: is the problem just because of the word "conformance"?  If so, let's drop that word

Unknown Elias: is the problem just because of the word "conformance"? If so, let's drop that word ←

14:33:44 <Zakim> +MarkB_; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MarkB_; got it ←

14:34:01 <RalphS> Michael: look at -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Mar/0010.html my response to Dan

Unknown Michael: look at -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Mar/0010.html my response to Dan ←

14:34:41 <RalphS> ... an agent that claims to be RDFa-aware must pass the test suite, but passing the test suite does not guarantee the agent is conforming

... an agent that claims to be RDFa-aware must pass the test suite, but passing the test suite does not guarantee the agent is conforming ←

14:34:52 <RalphS> Ben: what is the GRDDL test suite called?

Unknown Ben: what is the GRDDL test suite called? ←

14:35:32 <RalphS> Elias: W3C does not bless implementations, so we're not required to do conformance tests

Unknown Elias: W3C does not bless implementations, so we're not required to do conformance tests ←

14:35:40 <RalphS> ... all we need to do is provide guidance to developers

... all we need to do is provide guidance to developers ←

14:35:59 <RalphS> Steven: the real reason for a test suite is to test the _specification_

Unknown Steven: the real reason for a test suite is to test the _specification_ ←

14:36:56 <benadida> RalphS: I agree with Steven. DanC has used the test suite to determine how the WG has responded to a question.

Scribe problem: the name 'benadida' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: I agree with Steven. DanC has used the test suite to determine how the WG has responded to a question. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown benadida ] ←

14:37:05 <benadida> ... if a question is raised, one should develop a test to show how to answer it

Unknown benadida: ... if a question is raised, one should develop a test to show how to answer it ←

14:37:28 <benadida> ... Dan has encouraged us to write a test case in response to any technical discussion.

Unknown benadida: ... Dan has encouraged us to write a test case in response to any technical discussion. ←

14:38:04 <mhausenblas> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-qa/2007Mar/0004.html Conformance testing discussion on QA

Unknown mhausenblas: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-qa/2007Mar/0004.html Conformance testing discussion on QA ←

14:38:29 <RalphS> Ben: so this seems to be about the usage of the term "conformance"

Unknown Ben: so this seems to be about the usage of the term "conformance" ←

14:38:57 <Zakim> -EliasT

Zakim IRC Bot: -EliasT ←

14:39:00 <RalphS> ... I recommend continuing to build the input/output tests but drop the word "conformance"

... I recommend continuing to build the input/output tests but drop the word "conformance" ←

14:39:54 <Zakim> +EliasT

Zakim IRC Bot: +EliasT ←

14:40:48 <RalphS> Michael: an agent can always trick the test suite by producing exactly what it requires yet not be a true implementation

Unknown Michael: an agent can always trick the test suite by producing exactly what it requires yet not be a true implementation ←

14:41:12 <RalphS> Ben: so the test suite is to help developers, help test the specification, but *not* to test implementations

Unknown Ben: so the test suite is to help developers, help test the specification, but *not* to test implementations ←

14:41:25 <RalphS> Elias: the SPARQL test suite gives a set of files and the expected output

Unknown Elias: the SPARQL test suite gives a set of files and the expected output ←

14:41:43 <RalphS> ... every SPARQL developer downloads the test suite and runs it themselves, then they can debate the test suite

... every SPARQL developer downloads the test suite and runs it themselves, then they can debate the test suite ←

14:42:10 <MarkB_> q+

Unknown MarkB_: q+ ←

14:42:55 <RalphS> ... the SPARQL test suite does not invoke any code; it's just the input and expected output

... the SPARQL test suite does not invoke any code; it's just the input and expected output ←

14:42:56 <mhausenblas> q+ on Test Runner

Unknown mhausenblas: q+ on Test Runner ←

14:43:18 <mhausenblas> q+ to demo Test Runner

Unknown mhausenblas: q+ to demo Test Runner ←

14:43:27 <RalphS> Mark: I agree that input and expected output is what Michael was doing but I don't think that is all we should do

Scribe problem: the name 'Mark' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Mark: I agree that input and expected output is what Michael was doing but I don't think that is all we should do ←

14:43:46 <RalphS> ... I'd like to provide an interface for people to test their endpoints

... I'd like to provide an interface for people to test their endpoints ←

14:44:08 <RalphS> ... concerned about only REST-based endpoint, as we haven't specified a REST requirement

... concerned about only REST-based endpoint, as we haven't specified a REST requirement ←

14:44:27 <RalphS> ... we shoudl stop at just describing inputs and outputs

... we should stop at just describing inputs and outputs ←

14:44:34 <RalphS> s/shoudl/should/

14:45:01 <RalphS> ... the other side of what Dan is getting at is 'anytime we mention RDFa in a document we should add to the test suite'

... the other side of what Dan is getting at is 'anytime we mention RDFa in a document we should add to the test suite' ←

14:45:25 <RalphS> ... the moment we create a sample or a line of text in a paragraph, reflect this in the test suite with an input and output document

... the moment we create a sample or a line of text in a paragraph, reflect this in the test suite with an input and output document ←

14:45:46 <RalphS> Ben: are you suggesting we drop the REST test harness?

Unknown Ben: are you suggesting we drop the REST test harness? ←

14:46:05 <RalphS> Mark: no, it's useful but don't make it mandatory

Unknown Mark: no, it's useful but don't make it mandatory ←

14:46:18 <RalphS> ... the REST harness should not be "the test suite" itself

... the REST harness should not be "the test suite" itself ←

14:46:26 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/testcases/rdfa-test-manifest.rdf

Unknown mhausenblas: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/testcases/rdfa-test-manifest.rdf ←

14:46:38 <RalphS> Michael: agree.  First we should look at the manifest file

Unknown Michael: agree. First we should look at the manifest file ←

14:46:49 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/testcases/

Unknown mhausenblas: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/testcases/ ←

14:46:59 <RalphS> ... rdfa-test-manifest is the source; everything else is generated by Wing's script

... rdfa-test-manifest is the source; everything else is generated by Wing's script ←

14:47:09 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/run-tc.html

Unknown mhausenblas: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/run-tc.html ←

14:47:11 <wing> test case results are still TTL

Unknown wing: test case results are still TTL ←

14:47:38 <RalphS> ... test runner is supplemental; it just helps test REST-based endpoints, but I'm happy to move the test runner elsewhere

... test runner is supplemental; it just helps test REST-based endpoints, but I'm happy to move the test runner elsewhere ←

14:47:49 <RalphS> ... the mandatory part is just the manifest and the test case directory

... the mandatory part is just the manifest and the test case directory ←

14:48:10 <RalphS> ... we've taken Mark's suggestion to add a SPARQL query to test that the expected triples are present

... we've taken Mark's suggestion to add a SPARQL query to test that the expected triples are present ←

14:49:06 <RalphS> ... the test asssertions are generated from the manifest

... the test asssertions are generated from the manifest ←

14:49:29 <RalphS> Elias: what property is available in the manifest to cite, e.g. the irc log where we discuss a test?

Unknown Elias: what property is available in the manifest to cite, e.g. the irc log where we discuss a test? ←

14:49:35 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/#RDFaTests

Unknown mhausenblas: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/#RDFaTests ←

14:50:06 <RalphS> Michael: see 'status'

Unknown Michael: see 'status' ←

14:50:19 <RalphS> Elias: I'm looking for a property that describes why the test was written

Unknown Elias: I'm looking for a property that describes why the test was written ←

14:50:26 <mhausenblas> pls choose one from http://www.w3.org/QA/2005/08/test-case-metadata.html

Unknown mhausenblas: pls choose one from http://www.w3.org/QA/2005/08/test-case-metadata.html ←

14:50:30 <RalphS> Wing: we can use seeAlso

Scribe problem: the name 'Wing' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Wing: we can use seeAlso ←

14:51:04 <RalphS> Elias: also record when we accepted or rejected a test

Unknown Elias: also record when we accepted or rejected a test ←

14:51:42 <RalphS> ACTION: Wing add a property to the test case schema for tracking origin and approval of an individual test

ACTION: Wing add a property to the test case schema for tracking origin and approval of an individual test ←

14:51:52 <EliasT> Zakim, mute me

Unknown EliasT: Zakim, mute me ←

14:51:52 <Zakim> EliasT should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: EliasT should now be muted ←

14:52:07 <RalphS> Mark: sounds like we're moving closer to a W3C test ontology

Unknown Mark: sounds like we're moving closer to a W3C test ontology ←

14:52:15 <RalphS> Wing: yep, we've been following that

Unknown Wing: yep, we've been following that ←

14:52:24 <RalphS> Ben: are we outputting RDFa on the test suite page? :)

Unknown Ben: are we outputting RDFa on the test suite page? :) ←

14:52:32 <RalphS> Michael: we've thought about that but aren't doing it yet

Unknown Michael: we've thought about that but aren't doing it yet ←

14:53:04 <RalphS> Topic: XHTML 1.1 Module Update

4. XHTML 1.1 Module Update

14:53:14 <RalphS> Mark: there's a document describing the modularization

Unknown Mark: there's a document describing the modularization ←

14:53:24 <RalphS> ... I've given comments to Shane

... I've given comments to Shane ←

14:53:33 <RalphS> ... sadly, Shane is ill right now

... sadly, Shane is ill right now ←

14:53:48 <RalphS> ... he had agreed to write the schemas

... he had agreed to write the schemas ←

14:54:21 <RalphS> ... the RDFa schemas I wrote don't (yet) drop in smoothly

... the RDFa schemas I wrote don't (yet) drop in smoothly ←

14:54:54 <RalphS> ... I will work on this myself in Shane's absence

... I will work on this myself in Shane's absence ←

14:55:29 <RalphS> ... I won't be able to pick this up again until next week

... I won't be able to pick this up again until next week ←

14:55:56 <RalphS> ... I'll do the schemas and then we can review

... I'll do the schemas and then we can review ←

14:56:14 <RalphS> Ben: would March 19 be a reasonable date to expect to see update schemas?

Unknown Ben: would March 19 be a reasonable date to expect to see update schemas? ←

14:56:34 <RalphS> Mark: I have had schemas on my server but they're old

Unknown Mark: I have had schemas on my server but they're old ←

14:56:48 <RalphS> Ben: we should have some versions published in the W3C process to get feedback

Unknown Ben: we should have some versions published in the W3C process to get feedback ←

14:56:58 <RalphS> ... I don't want this to be a rushed, last-minute thing

... I don't want this to be a rushed, last-minute thing ←

14:57:17 <RalphS> Mark: the work on XHTML modularization has been underway for a long time

Unknown Mark: the work on XHTML modularization has been underway for a long time ←

14:58:30 <RalphS> Ben: people will be looking at every little detail when we go to REC

Unknown Ben: people will be looking at every little detail when we go to REC ←

14:58:50 <RalphS> Mark: the draft is the primary thing; Shane has aligned this with the latest XHTML Modularization spec

Unknown Mark: the draft is the primary thing; Shane has aligned this with the latest XHTML Modularization spec ←

14:59:03 <RalphS> ... we won't gain by getting people to look at year-old schemas

... we won't gain by getting people to look at year-old schemas ←

14:59:24 <RalphS> ... point people to Shane's draft now

... point people to Shane's draft now ←

14:59:41 <RalphS> Ben: so let's hope to have schemas updated by March 19

Unknown Ben: so let's hope to have schemas updated by March 19 ←

14:59:47 <Steven_> Time

Unknown Steven_: Time ←

15:00:22 <RalphS> Mark: I'll have the schemas done by March 12

Unknown Mark: I'll have the schemas done by March 12 ←

15:00:32 <RalphS> ACTION: Mark produce RDFa XHTML 1.1 module and spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action14]

ACTION: Mark produce RDFa XHTML 1.1 module and spec [recorded in ACTION-14]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-14] ←

15:00:34 <RalphS> -- continues

-- continues ←

15:00:39 <RalphS> ACTION: Mark to put M12N schema up somewhere, and tell us where [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action06]

ACTION: Mark to put M12N schema up somewhere, and tell us where [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-06] ←

15:00:46 <RalphS> scribenick: benadida

(Scribe set to Unknown benadida)

15:00:48 <Zakim> -Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ralph ←

15:01:30 <mhausenblas> Topic: 5. Setting a Schedule

5. 5. Setting a Schedule

15:01:34 <mhausenblas> next week

Unknown mhausenblas: next week ←

15:01:42 <Zakim> -EliasT

Zakim IRC Bot: -EliasT ←

15:02:40 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←

15:03:05 <benadida> Mark's mashup demo

Mark's mashup demo ←

15:03:18 <benadida> MarkB: asked to demonstrate SideWinder

Scribe problem: the name 'MarkB' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown MarkB: asked to demonstrate SideWinder ←

15:03:43 <benadida> ... framework to put together application "widgets"

... framework to put together application "widgets" ←

15:03:50 <benadida> ... how do you get RDF? While you're browsing, etc...

... how do you get RDF? While you're browsing, etc... ←

15:04:10 <benadida> ... sidebar in IE and, while you're browsing, looks for RDFa in main window

... sidebar in IE and, while you're browsing, looks for RDFa in main window ←

15:04:36 <benadida> ... converts it, stores it, and different running sidewinder applications can run queries

... converts it, stores it, and different running sidewinder applications can run queries ←

15:04:59 <benadida> ... to pull data out. Example: google map that periodically maps events browsed.

... to pull data out. Example: google map that periodically maps events browsed. ←

15:05:19 <benadida> ... browsing process adds triples as you go, don't pay any attention.

... browsing process adds triples as you go, don't pay any attention. ←

15:05:26 <benadida> ... separate process renders items found.

... separate process renders items found. ←

15:05:42 <benadida> ... next stage is to combine that with previous data.

... next stage is to combine that with previous data. ←

15:05:49 <benadida> ... parser also does microformat processing.

... parser also does microformat processing. ←

15:06:27 <benadida> ... main thing we're trying to do is to build stuff into the browser.

... main thing we're trying to do is to build stuff into the browser. ←

15:07:12 <benadida> ... no demo just yet, but working on it soon.

... no demo just yet, but working on it soon. ←

15:09:25 <Zakim> -Wing

Zakim IRC Bot: -Wing ←

15:09:26 <Zakim> -Simone

Zakim IRC Bot: -Simone ←

15:09:27 <Zakim> -Michael

Zakim IRC Bot: -Michael ←

15:09:27 <Zakim> -MarkB_

Zakim IRC Bot: -MarkB_ ←

15:09:30 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida

Scribe problem: the name 'Ben_Adida' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ben_Adida ←

15:09:31 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)9:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)9:00AM has ended ←

15:09:32 <Zakim> Attendees were Ralph, Michael, Wing, Steven, Simone, Ben_Adida, EliasT, MarkB_

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Ralph, Michael, Wing, Steven, Simone, Ben_Adida, EliasT, MarkB_ ←

15:09:41 <benadida> zakim, please draft minutes

zakim, please draft minutes ←

15:09:41 <Zakim> I don't understand 'please draft minutes', benadida

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'please draft minutes', benadida ←

15:11:18 <benadida> ADJOURNED

ADJOURNED ←

15:29:59 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

(No events recorded for 18 minutes)

Unknown Steven: rrsagent, make minutes ←

15:29:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-minutes.html Steven ←

15:33:54 <Steven> s/Scribe: Ralph/Scribe: RalphS/

15:33:59 <Steven> rrsagnet, make minutes

Unknown Steven: rrsagnet, make minutes ←

15:34:07 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

Unknown Steven: rrsagent, make minutes ←

15:34:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-minutes.html Steven ←

15:37:35 <Steven> s/Antiones/Antoine's/

15:37:45 <Steven> s/04 01rrsagnet, make minutes//

Unknown Steven: s/04 01rrsagnet, make minutes// (warning: replacement failed) ←

15:37:52 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

Unknown Steven: rrsagent, make minutes ←

15:37:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-minutes.html Steven ←

17:17:10 <Steven> rrsagent, bye

(No events recorded for 99 minutes)

Unknown Steven: rrsagent, bye ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent> I see 11 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 11 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-actions.rdf : ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael to prepare RDF/XML - RDFa comparison wiki page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action09] [1]

ACTION: Michael to prepare RDF/XML - RDFa comparison wiki page [recorded in ACTION-09]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-09] [1] ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T14-06-51

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T14-06-51 ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven to put together sample XHTML2 doc with all mime type, etc. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action07] [2]

ACTION: Steven to put together sample XHTML2 doc with all mime type, etc. [recorded in ACTION-07]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-07] [2] ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T14-13-04

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T14-13-04 ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben start a list of RDF/XML features that are not supported by RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action08] [3]

ACTION: Ben start a list of RDF/XML features that are not supported by RDFa [recorded in ACTION-08]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-08] [3] ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T14-15-22

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T14-15-22 ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action10] [4]

ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in ACTION-10]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-10] [4] ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T14-16-41

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T14-16-41 ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to update RDFa schedule on wiki to aim for last call on June 1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action05] [5]

ACTION: Ben to update RDFa schedule on wiki to aim for last call on June 1 [recorded in ACTION-05]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-05] [5] ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T14-17-28

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T14-17-28 ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action12] [6]

ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in ACTION-12]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-12] [6] ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T14-17-48

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T14-17-48 ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark produce more examples of applicability of n-ary relations from IPTC documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action13] [7]

ACTION: Mark produce more examples of applicability of n-ary relations from IPTC documents [recorded in ACTION-13]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-13] [7] ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T14-20-15

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T14-20-15 ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael continue work on the FAQ template that Elias started [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action15] [8]

ACTION: Michael continue work on the FAQ template that Elias started [recorded in ACTION-15]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-15] [8] ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T14-21-01

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T14-21-01 ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Wing add a property to the test case schema for tracking origin and approval of an individual test [9]

ACTION: Wing add a property to the test case schema for tracking origin and approval of an individual test [9] ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T14-51-42

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T14-51-42 ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark produce RDFa XHTML 1.1 module and spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action14] [10]

ACTION: Mark produce RDFa XHTML 1.1 module and spec [recorded in ACTION-14]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-14] [10] ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T15-00-32

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T15-00-32 ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark to put M12N schema up somewhere, and tell us where [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action06] [11]

ACTION: Mark to put M12N schema up somewhere, and tell us where [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-06] [11] ←

17:17:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T15-00-39

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-irc#T15-00-39 ←

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