08:53:16 <mischat> any head with making http://www.w3.org/2011/08/31-rdf-wg-irc public would be great :)
Mischa Tuffield: any head with making http://www.w3.org/2011/08/31-rdf-wg-irc public would be great :) ←
08:53:30 <mischat> i will bug swh when i see him, he might know ...
Mischa Tuffield: i will bug swh when i see him, he might know ... ←
12:19:51 <MacTed> mischat - this is the page that should definitely be public -- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-08-31
(No events recorded for 206 minutes)
Ted Thibodeau: mischat - this is the page that should definitely be public -- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-08-31 ←
12:19:51 <MacTed> you get there thru the editable version of the IRC log -- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Chatlog_2011-08-31
Ted Thibodeau: you get there thru the editable version of the IRC log -- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Chatlog_2011-08-31 ←
12:19:51 <MacTed> by clicking the "preview nicely formatted version" link in the page head
Ted Thibodeau: by clicking the "preview nicely formatted version" link in the page head ←
12:19:51 <MacTed> they all *appear* to be public, having tested with another browser where I'm not logged in
Ted Thibodeau: they all *appear* to be public, having tested with another browser where I'm not logged in ←
14:51:05 <ivan> trackbot, start telcon
(No events recorded for 151 minutes)
Ivan Herman: trackbot, start telcon ←
14:51:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:51:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394 ←
14:51:09 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 9 minutes ←
14:51:10 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:51:10 <trackbot> Date: 07 September 2011
14:52:14 <yvesr> anyone using ekiga here? i keep getting 'this passcode is not valid'
Yves Raimond: anyone using ekiga here? i keep getting 'this passcode is not valid' ←
14:53:34 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started ←
14:53:40 <Zakim> +??P7
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7 ←
14:53:41 <Zakim> + +20598aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +20598aaaa ←
14:53:53 <yvesr> Zakim, P7 is me
Yves Raimond: Zakim, P7 is me ←
14:53:53 <Zakim> sorry, yvesr, I do not recognize a party named 'P7'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, yvesr, I do not recognize a party named 'P7' ←
14:53:56 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P7 is me
Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P7 is me ←
14:53:56 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it ←
14:54:18 <yvesr> found - DTMF needs to be set as RFC2833
Yves Raimond: found - DTMF needs to be set as RFC2833 ←
14:55:15 <Guus> zakim, +20598aaaa is me
Guus Schreiber: zakim, +20598aaaa is me ←
14:55:15 <Zakim> +Guus; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus; got it ←
14:56:01 <Guus> zakim, mute me
Guus Schreiber: zakim, mute me ←
14:56:02 <Zakim> Guus should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Guus should now be muted ←
14:56:14 <Zakim> + +1.707.861.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.707.861.aabb ←
14:56:22 <gavinc> Zakim, aabb is me
Gavin Carothers: Zakim, aabb is me ←
14:56:22 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gavinc; got it ←
14:56:27 <Zakim> +Tony
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tony ←
14:56:43 <Scott_Bauer> Zakim, Tony is me
Scott Bauer: Zakim, Tony is me ←
14:56:43 <Zakim> +Scott_Bauer; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Scott_Bauer; got it ←
14:57:05 <Zakim> +davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood ←
14:57:32 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
14:57:32 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
14:57:34 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
14:58:26 <Guus> zakim, unmute me
Guus Schreiber: zakim, unmute me ←
14:58:26 <Zakim> Guus should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Guus should no longer be muted ←
14:58:38 <yvesr> Zakim, who is talking?
Yves Raimond: Zakim, who is talking? ←
14:58:49 <Zakim> yvesr, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus (24%)
Zakim IRC Bot: yvesr, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus (24%) ←
14:59:11 <Zakim> + +33.9.54.07.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +33.9.54.07.aacc ←
14:59:57 <AZ> zakim, +33.9.54.07.aacc is me
Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, +33.9.54.07.aacc is me ←
14:59:57 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it ←
15:00:15 <Guus> zhe, can you scribe?
Guus Schreiber: zhe, can you scribe? ←
15:00:23 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
15:00:27 <Guus> you're on the list :-)
Guus Schreiber: you're on the list :-) ←
15:00:49 <Zakim> +??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←
15:00:56 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P13 is [Garlik]
Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P13 is [Garlik] ←
15:00:56 <Zakim> +[Garlik]; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +[Garlik]; got it ←
15:01:03 <SteveH> Zakim, [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat
Steve Harris: Zakim, [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat ←
15:01:04 <Zakim> +SteveH, mischat; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH, mischat; got it ←
15:01:19 <Zakim> +??P15
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15 ←
15:01:24 <Zakim> + +1.617.324.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.617.324.aadd ←
15:01:46 <ericP> Zakim, aadd is me
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, aadd is me ←
15:01:46 <Zakim> +ericP; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP; got it ←
15:01:51 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.443.212.aaee ←
15:02:03 <Zakim> +LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF ←
15:02:06 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here? ←
15:02:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus, yvesr, gavinc, Scott_Bauer, davidwood, Ivan, AZ, Sandro, [Garlik], pchampin, ericP, +1.443.212.aaee, LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Guus, yvesr, gavinc, Scott_Bauer, davidwood, Ivan, AZ, Sandro, [Garlik], pchampin, ericP, +1.443.212.aaee, LeeF ←
15:02:08 <Zakim> [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat
Zakim IRC Bot: [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat ←
15:02:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see AlexHall, mischat_, pchampin, zwu2, mbrunati, AZ, Zakim, mischat, Guus, MacTed, ivan, Scott_Bauer, LeeF, SteveH, danbri, RRSAgent, gavinc, trackbot, davidwood, manu,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see AlexHall, mischat_, pchampin, zwu2, mbrunati, AZ, Zakim, mischat, Guus, MacTed, ivan, Scott_Bauer, LeeF, SteveH, danbri, RRSAgent, gavinc, trackbot, davidwood, manu, ←
15:02:12 <Zakim> ... manu1, sandro, yvesr, NickH, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: ... manu1, sandro, yvesr, NickH, ericP ←
15:03:02 <Zakim> +Thomas
Zakim IRC Bot: +Thomas ←
15:03:08 <zwu2> Guus, I am not feeling well today, can I scribe next week?
Zhe Wu: Guus, I am not feeling well today, can I scribe next week? ←
15:03:17 <zwu2> zakim, code?
15:03:17 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2 ←
15:04:06 <Zakim> + +1.650.265.aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.650.265.aaff ←
15:04:15 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
15:04:23 <zwu2> zakim, +1.650.265.aaff is me
Zhe Wu: zakim, +1.650.265.aaff is me ←
15:04:23 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2; got it ←
15:04:30 <AlexHall> scribe: alexhall
(Scribe set to Alex Hall)
<AlexHall> regrets: pat, richard, william
15:04:36 <zwu2> Thanks Alex!
15:04:38 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
15:04:38 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
15:04:40 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:04:40 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:04:58 <AlexHall> topic: Admin
15:05:05 <Zakim> +??P29
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P29 ←
15:05:10 <AndyS> zakim, ??P29 is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P29 is me ←
15:05:10 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
15:05:18 <Zakim> +??P30
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P30 ←
15:05:20 <AlexHall> guus: thanks to mischa for fixing minutes, apologies for their lateness
Guus Schreiber: thanks to mischa for fixing minutes, apologies for their lateness ←
15:05:33 <tomayac> +1 to accept
Thomas Steiner: +1 to accept ←
15:05:34 <mbrunati> zakim, +??P30 is me
Matteo Brunati: zakim, +??P30 is me ←
15:05:34 <Zakim> sorry, mbrunati, I do not recognize a party named '+??P30'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, mbrunati, I do not recognize a party named '+??P30' ←
15:05:35 <AlexHall> ... correct link to minutes is in agenda
... correct link to minutes is in agenda ←
15:05:39 <mischat> these are the minutes http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-08-31
Mischa Tuffield: these are the minutes http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-08-31 ←
15:05:48 <mbrunati> zakim, ??P30 is me
Matteo Brunati: zakim, ??P30 is me ←
15:05:48 <Zakim> +mbrunati; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +mbrunati; got it ←
15:05:51 <AlexHall> PROPOSED: to accept the minutes from 31 Aug telecon
PROPOSED: to accept the minutes from 31 Aug telecon ←
15:06:16 <AlexHall> RESOLVED: to accept the minutes from 31 Aug telecon
RESOLVED: to accept the minutes from 31 Aug telecon ←
15:06:41 <AlexHall> guus: no pending action items
Guus Schreiber: no pending action items ←
15:06:53 <AlexHall> ... open items, danbri is not here
... open items, danbri is not here ←
15:07:25 <AlexHall> sandro: started conversation, when it's considered stable we can proceed with registering it
Sandro Hawke: started conversation, when it's considered stable we can proceed with registering it ←
15:07:49 <AlexHall> ... not sure what stable means, from w3c perspective could mean final call
... not sure what stable means, from w3c perspective could mean final call ←
15:08:06 <AlexHall> ... could probably proceed before then, probably doesn't matter
... could probably proceed before then, probably doesn't matter ←
15:08:16 <AlexHall> guus: would prefer to proceed now, hearing no objections
Guus Schreiber: would prefer to proceed now, hearing no objections ←
15:08:30 <AlexHall> sandro: would like resolution from wg
Sandro Hawke: would like resolution from wg ←
15:08:47 <AlexHall> ... prepare template, put to vote for a resolution
... prepare template, put to vote for a resolution ←
15:08:58 <AlexHall> ... does anybody have reason to think it's not stable?
... does anybody have reason to think it's not stable? ←
15:09:28 <sandro> ACTION: sandro to draft well-known URI template and propose WG resolution that it is "stable" enough for IETF.
ACTION: sandro to draft well-known URI template and propose WG resolution that it is "stable" enough for IETF. ←
15:09:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-82 - Draft well-known URI template and propose WG resolution that it is "stable" enough for IETF. [on Sandro Hawke - due 2011-09-14].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-82 - Draft well-known URI template and propose WG resolution that it is "stable" enough for IETF. [on Sandro Hawke - due 2011-09-14]. ←
15:09:40 <sandro> close action-52
Sandro Hawke: close ACTION-52 ←
15:09:40 <trackbot> ACTION-52 Start conversation on reserving our well-known string (genid) closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-52 Start conversation on reserving our well-known string (genid) closed ←
15:09:41 <AlexHall> guus: next item, review PA's comments on SPARQL update protocol
Guus Schreiber: next item, review PA's comments on SPARQL update protocol ←
15:09:51 <AlexHall> ... think it's done
... think it's done ←
15:10:00 <danbri> Hi. I'm in IRC, but I'm not dialing into telecons until I get my Skype dialout fixed (was a payments system problem; allgedly it'll work from tommorrow)
Dan Brickley: Hi. I'm in IRC, but I'm not dialing into telecons until I get my Skype dialout fixed (was a payments system problem; allgedly it'll work from tommorrow) ←
15:10:19 <mischat> no i don't think it was discussed either
Mischa Tuffield: no i don't think it was discussed either ←
15:10:33 <AlexHall> ... was not discussed last week, and PA is not here so we need to keep it open
... was not discussed last week, and PA is not here so we need to keep it open ←
15:11:26 <AlexHall> guus: need to change the date on action 73, don't need to track it every week
Guus Schreiber: need to change the date on ACTION-73, don't need to track it every week ←
15:11:34 <sandro> action-73?
15:11:34 <trackbot> ACTION-73 -- Fabien Gandon to implement http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-08-03#resolution_2 -- due 2011-08-24 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-73 -- Fabien Gandon to implement http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-08-03#resolution_2 -- due 2011-08-24 -- OPEN ←
15:11:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/73
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/73 ←
15:12:10 <AlexHall> ... action 77 is still open, propose to discuss as part of today's RDF datasets agenda item
... ACTION-77 is still open, propose to discuss as part of today's RDF datasets agenda item ←
15:13:16 <AlexHall> guus: Last admin item, next telecon is 14 Sep, back on normal schedule
Guus Schreiber: Last admin item, next telecon is 14 Sep, back on normal schedule ←
<AlexHall> topic: Public comments
15:13:40 <AlexHall> guus: need to agree on policy for who is responsible for responding to public comments
Guus Schreiber: need to agree on policy for who is responsible for responding to public comments ←
15:13:43 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aagg ←
15:13:46 <gavinc> Timely too :\
Gavin Carothers: Timely too :\ ←
15:13:54 <Souri> zakim, aagg is me
Souripriya Das: zakim, aagg is me ←
15:13:54 <Zakim> +Souri; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri; got it ←
15:13:56 <AlexHall> ... traditionally editor is responsible for responding
... traditionally editor is responsible for responding ←
15:14:09 <AlexHall> ... at the very least, each comment must be politely acknowledged
... at the very least, each comment must be politely acknowledged ←
15:14:38 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:15:59 <ivan> ack ivan
Ivan Herman: ack ivan ←
15:16:03 <AlexHall> ... suggestion is to think of how each comment impacts the text, point out specific passages or ask for specific changes
... suggestion is to think of how each comment impacts the text, point out specific passages or ask for specific changes ←
15:16:34 <AlexHall> ivan: number of commenters were unhappy with current policy of different mailing lists for comments vs. working group
Ivan Herman: number of commenters were unhappy with current policy of different mailing lists for comments vs. working group ←
15:17:02 <AlexHall> ... personally don't have a problem with this, but should we change it?
... personally don't have a problem with this, but should we change it? ←
15:17:17 <AlexHall> guus: administratively, it must be done this way.
Guus Schreiber: administratively, it must be done this way. ←
15:17:28 <AlexHall> ivan: rdfa working group has only one mailing list
Ivan Herman: rdfa working group has only one mailing list ←
15:17:44 <AlexHall> ... supposing it's doable, do we want to make that change?
... supposing it's doable, do we want to make that change? ←
15:18:09 <AlexHall> andy: how does rdfa formally track comments if they're all on the same list?
Andy Seaborne: how does rdfa formally track comments if they're all on the same list? ←
15:18:24 <AlexHall> ... one advantage of separate lists is that it's more convenient for tracking comments
... one advantage of separate lists is that it's more convenient for tracking comments ←
15:18:44 <davidwood> +1 to Andy. The separate comments list seems to make it easier to track comments.
David Wood: +1 to Andy. The separate comments list seems to make it easier to track comments. ←
15:18:45 <AlexHall> ivan: rdfa wg manages by having a very devoted chair who spends a lot of time
Ivan Herman: rdfa wg manages by having a very devoted chair who spends a lot of time ←
15:19:08 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
15:19:14 <AlexHall> ... understand the advantage
... understand the advantage ←
15:19:15 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: RDF-WG -- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/ -- 2011-09-07 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.09.07
Sandro Hawke: sandro has changed the topic to: RDF-WG -- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/ -- 2011-09-07 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.09.07 ←
15:19:26 <Zakim> +ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP ←
15:19:52 <AlexHall> andy: can't recall exact setup of sparql lists, but wg list is for more conversation and chitchat while public list is for formal comments
Andy Seaborne: can't recall exact setup of sparql lists, but wg list is for more conversation and chitchat while public list is for formal comments ←
15:20:10 <AlexHall> ivan: happy to leave it as it is as long as there are no strong objections from wg.
Guus Schreiber: happy to leave it as it is as long as there are no strong objections from wg. ←
15:20:43 <ivan> s/ivan/guus/
15:20:54 <AlexHall> topic: FTF planning
15:21:00 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F2
Mischa Tuffield: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F2 ←
15:21:23 <AlexHall> guus: 8 or 9 at Boston location, several more remotely at bbc
Guus Schreiber: 8 or 9 at Boston location, several more remotely at bbc ←
15:21:37 <AlexHall> ... please add your name to one of these lists
... please add your name to one of these lists ←
15:21:50 <gavinc> Yay for a 2nd Europen F2F ;)
Gavin Carothers: Yay for a 2nd Europen F2F ;) ←
15:22:16 <AlexHall> ... BBC might have more attendees than Boston, might affect scheduling issues (earlier start time in Boston)
... BBC might have more attendees than Boston, might affect scheduling issues (earlier start time in Boston) ←
15:22:59 <gavinc> ... ... ... Uh. Right, that sucks
Gavin Carothers: ... ... ... Uh. Right, that sucks ←
15:23:04 <AlexHall> sandro: looks like more people at BBC location, might make more sense to make it there instead
Sandro Hawke: looks like more people at BBC location, might make more sense to make it there instead ←
15:23:14 <NickH> haha, if there are morepeople in London, then Boston is the 'second site'?
Nicholas Humfrey: haha, if there are morepeople in London, then Boston is the 'second site'? ←
15:23:34 <yvesr> sandro, although we can't accomodate a lot more people at the bbc location (the room we have is relatively small)
Yves Raimond: sandro, although we can't accomodate a lot more people at the bbc location (the room we have is relatively small) ←
15:23:34 <AlexHall> david: can't personally make it to european location
David Wood: can't personally make it to european location ←
15:23:56 <Scott_Bauer> I've also made travel plans for
Scott Bauer: I've also made travel plans for ←
15:24:00 <Scott_Bauer> Boston
Scott Bauer: Boston ←
15:24:32 <AlexHall> andy: i know it's harder having a split site, but we get more people this way
Andy Seaborne: i know it's harder having a split site, but we get more people this way ←
15:24:36 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
15:24:46 <LeeF> Echo the concerns about a two-site meeting without video
Lee Feigenbaum: Echo the concerns about a two-site meeting without video ←
15:24:47 <Zakim> +ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP ←
15:24:50 <AlexHall> gavin: noticed that we don't seem to have video conferencing setup, is that correct?
Gavin Carothers: noticed that we don't seem to have video conferencing setup, is that correct? ←
15:25:04 <Zakim> +??P20
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P20 ←
15:25:11 <NickH> zakim, ??P20 is me
Nicholas Humfrey: zakim, ??P20 is me ←
15:25:11 <Zakim> +NickH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +NickH; got it ←
15:25:19 <AlexHall> yves: that's correct, we don't currently have videoconf at BBC, can investigate
Yves Raimond: that's correct, we don't currently have videoconf at BBC, can investigate ←
15:25:27 <AlexHall> ... also, cannot accommodate many more people
... also, cannot accommodate many more people ←
15:25:53 <AlexHall> guus: seems we will end up with a split meeting, need to come up with an agenda to accomodate both sites
Guus Schreiber: seems we will end up with a split meeting, need to come up with an agenda to accomodate both sites ←
15:25:53 <Zakim> -LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF ←
15:25:56 <LeeF> oops
Lee Feigenbaum: oops ←
15:26:02 <LeeF> i hung up, but intended to say that i'd be happy to do 7am
Lee Feigenbaum: i hung up, but intended to say that i'd be happy to do 7am ←
15:26:05 <LeeF> "happy"
Lee Feigenbaum: "happy" ←
15:26:09 <AlexHall> ... 5 hour time difference, is 8am start in Boston OK?
... 5 hour time difference, is 8am start in Boston OK? ←
15:26:36 <Zakim> +LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF ←
15:27:32 <AlexHall> eric: we could possibly open the doors early
Eric Prud'hommeaux: we could possibly open the doors early ←
15:28:24 <AlexHall> guus: breakout groups early in UK, afternoon in US
Guus Schreiber: breakout groups early in UK, afternoon in US ←
15:28:52 <AlexHall> ... common meeting in morning (US)/afternoon (UK)
... common meeting in morning (US)/afternoon (UK) ←
15:29:14 <AlexHall> david: might be hard to organize breakouts by geography instead of interest
David Wood: might be hard to organize breakouts by geography instead of interest ←
15:29:39 <AlexHall> ... could we overlap the breakouts?
... could we overlap the breakouts? ←
15:30:25 <sandro> So, I've just re-researved MIT's H.320/H.323 video conferencing room, hoping a matching BBC facility will be available.
Sandro Hawke: So, I've just re-researved MIT's H.320/H.323 video conferencing room, hoping a matching BBC facility will be available. ←
15:30:27 <AlexHall> yves: can keep the building open, only possible problem is that lunch is already arranged
Yves Raimond: can keep the building open, only possible problem is that lunch is already arranged ←
15:31:08 <AlexHall> guus: proposed schedule: UK breakouts 10am-noon, lunch noon-1pm, meeting 1pm-7pm
Guus Schreiber: proposed schedule: UK breakouts 10am-noon, lunch noon-1pm, meeting 1pm-7pm ←
15:31:28 <AlexHall> ... US meeting 8am-2pm, lunch, then breakouts
... US meeting 8am-2pm, lunch, then breakouts ←
15:32:12 <AlexHall> sandro: had previously released video conferencing room, will re-reserve
Sandro Hawke: had previously released video conferencing room, will re-reserve ←
15:32:36 <AlexHall> action: guus and david to come up with agenda which works for US and UK locatinos
ACTION: guus and david to come up with agenda which works for US and UK locatinos ←
15:32:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-83 - And david to come up with agenda which works for US and UK locatinos [on Guus Schreiber - due 2011-09-14].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-83 - And david to come up with agenda which works for US and UK locatinos [on Guus Schreiber - due 2011-09-14]. ←
15:33:01 <sandro> Hmmmm. Ekiga claims to support H.323, so yeah, people could do it on desktops.
Sandro Hawke: Hmmmm. Ekiga claims to support H.323, so yeah, people could do it on desktops. ←
15:33:26 <AlexHall> guus: discussed in august what would be the main meeting objectives
Guus Schreiber: discussed in august what would be the main meeting objectives ←
15:34:16 <AlexHall> ... making substantial progress on multi-graph issues is the major objective
... making substantial progress on multi-graph issues is the major objective ←
15:34:27 <mischat> does that include all of the graph terminology stuff ?
Mischa Tuffield: does that include all of the graph terminology stuff ? ←
15:34:35 <AlexHall> ... given that other issues are making reasonable progress
... given that other issues are making reasonable progress ←
15:34:45 <Zakim> +Thomas.a
Zakim IRC Bot: +Thomas.a ←
15:35:08 <AlexHall> ... yes, this includes the terminology, sandro is waiting for progress on multigraph before moving on with terminology
... yes, this includes the terminology, sandro is waiting for progress on multigraph before moving on with terminology ←
15:35:22 <AlexHall> topic: Liason with Provenance WG
15:35:51 <AlexHall> guus: in august we were in contact with Luc, one of the chairs of the provenance wg
Guus Schreiber: in august we were in contact with Luc, one of the chairs of the provenance wg ←
15:36:08 <AlexHall> ... trying to set up a common time
... trying to set up a common time ←
15:36:39 <AlexHall> ... their telecon is the same as ours but on thursday
... their telecon is the same as ours but on thursday ←
15:36:59 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
15:37:00 <AlexHall> ... we will meet after their telecon on 15 Sep (at 12:15pm eastern)
... we will meet after their telecon on 15 Sep (at 12:15pm eastern) ←
15:37:09 <AlexHall> ... who in this group can or will attend?
... who in this group can or will attend? ←
15:37:10 <Zakim> +ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP ←
15:37:39 <AZ> I want to attend
Antoine Zimmermann: I want to attend ←
15:37:39 <ivan> probably
Ivan Herman: probably ←
15:38:04 <Scott_Bauer> probably, need to rearrange a meeting.
Scott Bauer: probably, need to rearrange a meeting. ←
15:38:11 <MacTed> I plan to join
Ted Thibodeau: I plan to join ←
15:38:13 <AndyS> Interested ... no specific issues ... want to understand deeply
Andy Seaborne: Interested ... no specific issues ... want to understand deeply ←
15:38:17 <davidwood> I will be there
David Wood: I will be there ←
15:38:19 <gavinc> I plan to join
Gavin Carothers: I plan to join ←
15:38:24 <sandro> I'm inclined to attend.
Sandro Hawke: I'm inclined to attend. ←
15:38:25 <SteveH> Would like to be there, but have clashes
Steve Harris: Would like to be there, but have clashes ←
15:38:51 <pchampin> not sure yet, I'll have to check
Pierre-Antoine Champin: not sure yet, I'll have to check ←
15:38:55 <AlexHall> ... 5 or 6 volunteers in IRC, would also like richard to attend
... 5 or 6 volunteers in IRC, would also like richard to attend ←
15:39:05 <mischat> the provenance people only really seem to care about named graphs
Mischa Tuffield: the provenance people only really seem to care about named graphs ←
15:39:27 <AlexHall> action: guus to contact Richard to ask to attend provenance WG liason call
ACTION: guus to contact Richard to ask to attend provenance WG liason call ←
15:39:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-84 - Contact Richard to ask to attend provenance WG liason call [on Guus Schreiber - due 2011-09-14].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-84 - Contact Richard to ask to attend provenance WG liason call [on Guus Schreiber - due 2011-09-14]. ←
15:39:54 <AlexHall> action: guus to distribute agenda for provenance wg call
ACTION: guus to distribute agenda for provenance wg call ←
15:39:54 <Zakim> -AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ ←
15:39:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-85 - Distribute agenda for provenance wg call [on Guus Schreiber - due 2011-09-14].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-85 - Distribute agenda for provenance wg call [on Guus Schreiber - due 2011-09-14]. ←
15:40:50 <Zakim> +AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ ←
15:41:01 <AlexHall> topic: Status of RDF Dataset proposal
15:41:13 <mischat> we used to have this page http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs re: Graph's TF
Mischa Tuffield: we used to have this page http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs re: Graph's TF ←
15:41:21 <AlexHall> guus: there was discussion between PA and richard on dataset proposal
Guus Schreiber: there was discussion between PA and richard on dataset proposal ←
15:41:30 <AZ> zakim, mute me
Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, mute me ←
15:41:31 <Zakim> AZ should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: AZ should now be muted ←
15:41:32 <AlexHall> ... didn't seem to make its way into the wiki page
... didn't seem to make its way into the wiki page ←
15:42:19 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
15:42:25 <gavinc> zakim, mute me
Gavin Carothers: zakim, mute me ←
15:42:25 <Zakim> gavinc should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: gavinc should now be muted ←
15:42:32 <Zakim> +ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP ←
15:42:42 <AlexHall> pchampin: have made progress on understanding each other's motivations and are slowly coming towards consensus
Pierre-Antoine Champin: have made progress on understanding each other's motivations and are slowly coming towards consensus ←
15:42:53 <AlexHall> ... but have not arrived at agreement yet
... but have not arrived at agreement yet ←
15:43:30 <AlexHall> guus: can't make progress on this today, will go back on agenda for next week
Guus Schreiber: can't make progress on this today, will go back on agenda for next week ←
15:43:42 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:43:44 <AlexHall> topic: ISSUE-12 language-tagged literals
15:44:07 <AlexHall> guus: message from pat on varieties of tagged literals
Guus Schreiber: message from pat on varieties of tagged literals ←
15:44:14 <AlexHall> ... not much discussion on this yet
... not much discussion on this yet ←
15:44:21 <mischat> iirc Pat was asked asked last week to put together a review of the various proposals
Mischa Tuffield: iirc Pat was asked asked last week to put together a review of the various proposals ←
15:44:32 <mischat> s/asked//
Mischa Tuffield: s/asked// ←
15:44:40 <AlexHall> ivan: questionnaire is not yet open because some questions about final wording
Ivan Herman: questionnaire is not yet open because some questions about final wording ←
15:44:55 <AlexHall> ... think it's mostly OK
... think it's mostly OK ←
15:45:14 <AlexHall> ... this is a personal questionnaire, not a formal vote on behalf of the companies
... this is a personal questionnaire, not a formal vote on behalf of the companies ←
15:45:21 <AlexHall> ... also a public questionnaire
... also a public questionnaire ←
15:45:51 <AlexHall> ... sandro made note right before the call that it's set up as a radio button form, meaning only one choice
... sandro made note right before the call that it's set up as a radio button form, meaning only one choice ←
15:46:10 <AlexHall> ... other alternative is a more open-ended form
... other alternative is a more open-ended form ←
15:46:48 <AlexHall> ... don't want to open it up too much or this could keep dragging on
... don't want to open it up too much or this could keep dragging on ←
15:47:10 <AlexHall> guus: any preference from wg on whether poll should be single-choice or multi-select?
Guus Schreiber: any preference from wg on whether poll should be single-choice or multi-select? ←
15:47:21 <AlexHall> ???: personally prefer the preferences form, gives more nuance
Guus Schreiber: personally prefer the preferences form, gives more nuance ←
15:47:31 <ivan> s/???/Guus/
15:47:41 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
15:47:53 <Zakim> +ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP ←
15:48:04 <AlexHall> sandro: have a first choice and second choice and a bunch that i really don't like, no way to express that in current form
Sandro Hawke: have a first choice and second choice and a bunch that i really don't like, no way to express that in current form ←
15:48:05 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:48:27 <davidwood> ack ivan
David Wood: ack ivan ←
15:48:57 <AlexHall> ivan: i proposed this poll last week, because without taking sides, all arguments have been extensively aired and we're going in circles now
Ivan Herman: i proposed this poll last week, because without taking sides, all arguments have been extensively aired and we're going in circles now ←
15:49:31 <AlexHall> ... try to get a clear view of whether there's a single solution that's obviously a winner, don't want this to drag on for months
... try to get a clear view of whether there's a single solution that's obviously a winner, don't want this to drag on for months ←
15:50:29 <AndyS> Why are we discussing the poll when the WG can't see the form?
Andy Seaborne: Why are we discussing the poll when the WG can't see the form? ←
15:51:10 <AlexHall> david: lee asked sandro for more details on his mailing list comment, can we discuss now?
David Wood: lee asked sandro for more details on his mailing list comment, can we discuss now? ←
15:51:34 <ericP> ivan, worth quickly opening it as an exhibit?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: ivan, worth quickly opening it as an exhibit? ←
15:51:47 <sandro> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Sep/0019.html Pat's Email
Sandro Hawke: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Sep/0019.html Pat's Email ←
15:51:50 <AlexHall> sandro: poll is only visible to staff and chairs, same text as pat's email but in radio button form
Sandro Hawke: poll is only visible to staff and chairs, same text as pat's email but in radio button form ←
15:52:10 <AlexHall> ... my comments are relevant to pat's email
... my comments are relevant to pat's email ←
15:53:19 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
15:53:20 <AlexHall> sandro: of all the option 2 styles, seems that if I have "foo" with different tags then i have 2 literals with same lexical and datatypes
Sandro Hawke: of all the option 2 styles, seems that if I have "foo" with different tags then i have 2 literals with same lexical and datatypes ←
15:53:34 <Zakim> +ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP ←
15:53:55 <AlexHall> ... how do i tell the difference between these in a system that only supports RDF 1.0-style literals?
... how do i tell the difference between these in a system that only supports RDF 1.0-style literals? ←
15:54:01 <pchampin> @sandro: well, yes, but they differ by their LANG
Pierre-Antoine Champin: @sandro: well, yes, but they differ by their LANG ←
15:54:46 <AlexHall> sandro: lang appears in sparql, but it doesn't appear in a serialization or api
Sandro Hawke: lang appears in sparql, but it doesn't appear in a serialization or api ←
15:55:58 <AlexHall> ... thought the goal of this was to simplify things by giving everything a datatype
... thought the goal of this was to simplify things by giving everything a datatype ←
15:56:27 <AlexHall> pchampin: spirit of #2 proposals is that we still have 2 styles of literals: those with tag and those without
Pierre-Antoine Champin: spirit of #2 proposals is that we still have 2 styles of literals: those with tag and those without ←
15:56:50 <AndyS> q+ to note the concerns about 3* in the email discussions
Andy Seaborne: q+ to note the concerns about 3* in the email discussions ←
15:56:53 <AlexHall> ... most people didn't like idea of open-ended universe of language datatypes
... most people didn't like idea of open-ended universe of language datatypes ←
15:57:07 <AlexHall> sandro: what is the advantage of option 2?
Sandro Hawke: what is the advantage of option 2? ←
15:58:07 <AlexHall> pchampin: everything is given a datatype, but still has distinct lexical and language parts
Pierre-Antoine Champin: everything is given a datatype, but still has distinct lexical and language parts ←
15:58:35 <ericP> so option 2 leaves us with two literal types?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: so option 2 leaves us with two literal types? ←
15:58:40 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
15:58:43 <AlexHall> sandro: seems a trivial change, you're just giving a little bit of extra information
Sandro Hawke: seems a trivial change, you're just giving a little bit of extra information ←
15:58:50 <sandro> sandro: I just don't see how Option 2 is an improvement over what we have now.
Sandro Hawke: I just don't see how Option 2 is an improvement over what we have now. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:58:51 <Zakim> +ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP ←
15:59:06 <AlexHall> andy: concerns about giving URIs to language datatypes
Andy Seaborne: concerns about giving URIs to language datatypes ←
15:59:22 <AlexHall> ... doesn't play well with existing subtype behavior
... doesn't play well with existing subtype behavior ←
15:59:36 <AlexHall> ... concerns about option 3 datatypes were discussed on the mailing list, but doesn't seem to be reflected in the poll.
... concerns about option 3 datatypes were discussed on the mailing list, but doesn't seem to be reflected in the poll. ←
16:00:05 <mischat> zakim, who is making noise ?
Mischa Tuffield: zakim, who is making noise ? ←
16:00:16 <Zakim> mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 21 (21%), Sandro (27%), pchampin (47%), Ivan (8%)
Zakim IRC Bot: mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 21 (21%), Sandro (27%), pchampin (47%), Ivan (8%) ←
16:00:55 <sandro> sandro: I understand language tags to not have a strict hierarchy, so we shouldn't use datatype hierarchy.
Sandro Hawke: I understand language tags to not have a strict hierarchy, so we shouldn't use datatype hierarchy. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:01:09 <AlexHall> pchampin: subtypes in this context means value space of language datatype is subtype of tagged literals
Pierre-Antoine Champin: subsets in this context means value space of language datatype is subset of tagged literals ←
16:01:55 <pchampin> s/subtype/subset/
<AlexHall> pchampin: rdf:TaggedLiteral value space would contain all the <txt, tag> pairs
Pierre-Antoine Champin: rdf:TaggedLiteral value space would contain all the <txt, tag> pairs ←
<AlexHall> ... but its lexical space would be empty
... but its lexical space would be empty ←
<AlexHall> ... rdf:TaggedLiteral/fr would only contain the <txt, "fr"> pairs
... rdf:TaggedLiteral/fr would only contain the <txt, "fr"> pairs ←
<AlexHall> ... its lexical space would contain all the strings txt
... its lexical space would contain all the strings txt ←
<AlexHall> ... and its L2V would be txt -> <txt,"fr">
... and its L2V would be txt -> <txt,"fr"> ←
<AlexHall> ... Simiar to owl:real having values but no lexical space;
... Simiar to owl:real having values but no lexical space; ←
<AlexHall> ... xsd:decimal having a subset of owl:real, and a lexical space and L2V for that subset.
... xsd:decimal having a subset of owl:real, and a lexical space and L2V for that subset. ←
16:01:50 <AndyS> IIRC: rdf:Lang-en owl:sameAs ns:name => looses lang info :: must be fixed URIs -> special.
Andy Seaborne: IIRC: rdf:Lang-en owl:sameAs ns:name => looses lang info :: must be fixed URIs -> special. ←
16:02:31 <AlexHall> sandro: sounds like you're saying these subtypes are implicit but can't be used directly
Sandro Hawke: sounds like you're saying these subtypes are implicit but can't be used directly ←
16:02:48 <AndyS> What is DATATYPE("foo"@en) in 3* ?
Andy Seaborne: What is DATATYPE("foo"@en) in 3* ? ←
16:03:27 <AlexHall> ivan: option 3 introduces lots of new datatypes to the picture, expect that inference engines would not like this
Ivan Herman: option 3 introduces lots of new datatypes to the picture, expect that inference engines would not like this ←
16:04:15 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
16:04:23 <Zakim> +ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP ←
16:04:29 <AlexHall> ivan: owl-rl e.g. would have problems with axiomatic triples because it needs a triple for each type it knows about
Ivan Herman: owl-rl e.g. would have problems with axiomatic triples because it needs a triple for each type it knows about ←
16:05:06 <pchampin> q+ to talk about option 4
Pierre-Antoine Champin: q+ to talk about option 4 ←
16:05:24 <gavinc> zakim, unmute me
Gavin Carothers: zakim, unmute me ←
16:05:24 <Zakim> gavinc should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: gavinc should no longer be muted ←
16:05:50 <AlexHall> andy: language tags in 1.1 will be treated specially no matter what, option 3 buries it in the URI, just moving where the special casing occurs
Andy Seaborne: language tags in 1.1 will be treated specially no matter what, option 3 buries it in the URI, just moving where the special casing occurs ←
16:06:03 <AlexHall> ... now you have to parse the URIs to extract the language tag information
... now you have to parse the URIs to extract the language tag information ←
16:06:05 <gavinc> langmatches is going to be defined really really really funckily for option 3
Gavin Carothers: langmatches is going to be defined really really really funckily for option 3 ←
16:06:33 <AlexHall> sandro: people who care about language tags will always have to treat them specially, option 3 allows people who don't care about them to ignore them
Sandro Hawke: people who care about language tags will always have to treat them specially, option 3 allows people who don't care about them to ignore them ←
16:07:10 <AlexHall> andy: option 2 puts it in the syntax, not in the datatype
Andy Seaborne: option 2 puts it in the syntax, not in the datatype ←
16:07:38 <SteveH> I think sandro has a point
Steve Harris: I think sandro has a point ←
16:07:45 <AlexHall> sandro: don't understand how the mechanism in option 2 is supposed to work, main basis for not liking that
Sandro Hawke: don't understand how the mechanism in option 2 is supposed to work, main basis for not liking that ←
16:08:25 <AlexHall> ... i see options 3 and 4 simplifying application code for lots of people, not so for option 2
... i see options 3 and 4 simplifying application code for lots of people, not so for option 2 ←
16:09:23 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
16:09:29 <gavinc> really, the iri rdf:langTag-zh-cmn-a-bbb-a-ccc is an improvement? :\
Gavin Carothers: really, the iri rdf:langTag-zh-cmn-a-bbb-a-ccc is an improvement? :\ ←
16:09:37 <Zakim> +ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP ←
16:09:51 <sandro> guus: Am I right that option 2 has aestheic advantage, but not much of an advantage for implementors.
Guus Schreiber: Am I right that option 2 has aestheic advantage, but not much of an advantage for implementors. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:09:59 <AlexHall> guus: have a feeling that the main advantage of option 2 is an aesthetic advantage, is that true?
Guus Schreiber: have a feeling that the main advantage of option 2 is an aesthetic advantage, is that true? ←
16:10:24 <AlexHall> andy: don't think any of them have a clear technical advantage, everything requires special handling of some sort
Andy Seaborne: don't think any of them have a clear technical advantage, everything requires special handling of some sort ←
16:11:09 <AlexHall> sandro: would like to eliminate branching of literal handling in apis
Sandro Hawke: would like to eliminate branching of literal handling in apis ←
16:12:06 <AlexHall> gavin: datatype iris for moderately complex language tags are going to be a pain
Gavin Carothers: datatype iris for moderately complex language tags are going to be a pain ←
16:12:53 <AlexHall> ivan: need final decision on what form to make the poll
Ivan Herman: need final decision on what form to make the poll ←
16:13:30 <zwu2> Ivan, you worry about inference blow up, how many language tags do you think there will be?
Zhe Wu: Ivan, you worry about inference blow up, how many language tags do you think there will be? ←
16:13:36 <MacTed> +1 example for each! a concrete thing will vary with each proposal ... show the variations?
Ted Thibodeau: +1 example for each! a concrete thing will vary with each proposal ... show the variations? ←
16:14:02 <gavinc> API (RDF Interfaces) in Python for Literal ;) https://github.com/norcalrdf/pymantic/blob/master/pymantic/primitives.py#L203
Gavin Carothers: API (RDF Interfaces) in Python for Literal ;) https://github.com/norcalrdf/pymantic/blob/master/pymantic/primitives.py#L203 ←
16:14:19 <sandro> action: sandro to provide example for how code is simpler with language-tag options 3 and 4 vs 1 and 2.
ACTION: sandro to provide example for how code is simpler with language-tag options 3 and 4 vs 1 and 2. ←
16:14:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-86 - Provide example for how code is simpler with language-tag options 3 and 4 vs 1 and 2. [on Sandro Hawke - due 2011-09-14].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-86 - Provide example for how code is simpler with language-tag options 3 and 4 vs 1 and 2. [on Sandro Hawke - due 2011-09-14]. ←
16:14:43 <AlexHall> ivan: will need to change poll. is 2 weeks ok?
Ivan Herman: will need to change poll. is 2 weeks ok? ←
16:14:56 <zwu2> thanks Alex!
16:14:56 <AlexHall> guus: close poll night before telecon 2 weeks from now
Guus Schreiber: close poll night before telecon 2 weeks from now ←
<AlexHall> guus: Meeting adjourned.
Guus Schreiber: Meeting adjourned. ←
16:15:02 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
16:15:03 <Zakim> -davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood ←
16:15:04 <Zakim> -NickH
Zakim IRC Bot: -NickH ←
16:15:05 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
16:15:07 <Zakim> -AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ ←
16:15:08 <Zakim> -yvesr
Zakim IRC Bot: -yvesr ←
16:15:09 <Zakim> -[Garlik]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[Garlik] ←
16:15:09 <Zakim> -gavinc
Zakim IRC Bot: -gavinc ←
16:15:10 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
16:15:11 <Zakim> -mbrunati
Zakim IRC Bot: -mbrunati ←
16:15:13 <Zakim> -zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2 ←
16:15:15 <Zakim> -pchampin
Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin ←
16:15:17 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
16:15:19 <Zakim> -Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri ←
16:15:25 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
16:15:30 <Zakim> -Scott_Bauer
Zakim IRC Bot: -Scott_Bauer ←
16:16:09 <Zakim> -Guus
Zakim IRC Bot: -Guus ←
16:16:16 <Zakim> -LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF ←
16:16:21 <gavinc> rrsagent, make records public
Gavin Carothers: rrsagent, make records public ←
Formatted by CommonScribe