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Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 08 September 2014

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.09.08
Present
Robert Sanderson, Andrei Sambra, Arnaud Le Hors, Cody Burleson, Steve Speicher, Alexandre Bertails, Ashok Malhotra, John Arwe, Pierre-Antoine Champin, Henry Story, Roger Menday, Ted Thibodeau, Sergio Fernández, Sandro Hawke
Chair
Arnaud Le Hors
Scribe
Sergio Fernández
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. Approve the minutes of last call, 25 August 2014 link
  2. Clarify that the context URI for the Link header is *not* the default, so anchor= is required. link
  3. Change rel=describedby to rel=<some_LDP_URI> for the LINK header in section 4.2.1.6 link
  4. Change MUST on Turtle to SHOULD when Accept is ABSENT on the request link
  5. Republish LDP as LC with 3 week period, and IndirectContainer as a feature at RISK link
  6. Servers MUST support JSON-LD when requested by client, marked as a feature at RISK link
Topics
13:58:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/08-ldp-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/08-ldp-irc

13:58:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public

13:58:11 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be LDP

13:58:11 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started

13:58:12 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:58:12 <trackbot> Date: 08 September 2014
13:58:51 <Zakim> +deiu

Zakim IRC Bot: +deiu

13:59:05 <azaroth> zakim, who is here

Robert Sanderson: zakim, who is here

13:59:05 <Zakim> azaroth, you need to end that query with '?'

Zakim IRC Bot: azaroth, you need to end that query with '?'

13:59:09 <azaroth> zakim, who is here?

Robert Sanderson: zakim, who is here?

13:59:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see azaroth, deiu

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see azaroth, deiu

13:59:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, codyburleson, azaroth, pchampin, bblfish, betehess, TallTed, SteveS, deiu, Arnaud, tommorris, sandro, Yves, ericP, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, codyburleson, azaroth, pchampin, bblfish, betehess, TallTed, SteveS, deiu, Arnaud, tommorris, sandro, Yves, ericP, trackbot

13:59:21 <betehess> Zakim, code?

Alexandre Bertails: Zakim, code?

13:59:21 <Zakim> the conference code is 53794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), betehess

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 53794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), betehess

13:59:25 <Zakim> +Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud

13:59:45 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

13:59:55 <codyburleson> Zakim, IPcaller is me.

Cody Burleson: Zakim, IPcaller is me.

13:59:56 <Zakim> +codyburleson; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +codyburleson; got it

14:00:35 <Zakim> +[IBM]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM]

14:00:35 <SteveS> Zakim, [IBM] is me

Steve Speicher: Zakim, [IBM] is me

14:00:36 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveS; got it

14:00:49 <Zakim> +Alexandre

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alexandre

14:01:46 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ashok_Malhotra

14:02:07 <Zakim> +JohnArwe

Zakim IRC Bot: +JohnArwe

14:02:08 <sergio> hi

Sergio Fernández: hi

14:02:09 <deiu> brb

Andrei Sambra: brb

14:03:14 <Zakim> +??P0

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P0

14:03:17 <Zakim> -??P0

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P0

14:03:18 <Zakim> +??P3

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3

14:03:29 <Zakim> +Roger

Zakim IRC Bot: +Roger

14:04:15 <deiu> Type 41# on your phone

Andrei Sambra: Type 41# on your phone

14:04:41 <sergio> that was me

Sergio Fernández: that was me

14:04:50 <deiu> q-

Andrei Sambra: q-

14:04:53 <roger> great !

Roger Menday: great !

14:04:56 <deiu> q- pchampin

Andrei Sambra: q- pchampin

14:05:01 <Zakim> + +33.9.52.33.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +33.9.52.33.aaaa

14:05:01 <deiu> q- Roger

Andrei Sambra: q- Roger

14:05:14 <bblfish> zakim, aaaa is me

Henry Story: zakim, aaaa is me

14:05:15 <Zakim> +bblfish; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish; got it

14:05:24 <Zakim> -pchampin

Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin

14:05:26 <JohnArwe> zakim, roger is actually sergio

John Arwe: zakim, roger is actually sergio

14:05:26 <Zakim> I don't understand 'roger is actually sergio', JohnArwe

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'roger is actually sergio', JohnArwe

14:05:33 <JohnArwe> oh well worth a stab

John Arwe: oh well worth a stab

14:05:40 <JohnArwe> zakim, roger is sergio

John Arwe: zakim, roger is sergio

14:05:40 <Zakim> +sergio; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +sergio; got it

14:05:45 <Zakim> +??P3

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3

14:05:54 <sergio> Zakim: +??P3 is me
14:06:00 <sergio> Zakim: ??P3 is me
14:06:23 <JohnArwe> zakim, sergio is roger

John Arwe: zakim, sergio is roger

14:06:23 <Zakim> +roger; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +roger; got it

14:06:37 <Zakim> +[OpenLink]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[OpenLink]

14:06:38 <JohnArwe> zakim, pchampin is sergio

John Arwe: zakim, pchampin is sergio

14:06:38 <Zakim> sorry, JohnArwe, I do not recognize a party named 'pchampin'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, JohnArwe, I do not recognize a party named 'pchampin'

14:06:41 <Zakim> +??P19

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P19

14:06:51 <TallTed> Zakim, [OpenLink] is OpenLink_Software

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, [OpenLink] is OpenLink_Software

14:06:53 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software; got it

14:06:57 <sergio> Zakim: +??P3 is me
14:06:58 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

14:06:58 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it

14:07:00 <JohnArwe> zakim, who's on the phone

John Arwe: zakim, who's on the phone

14:07:00 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's on the phone', JohnArwe

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who's on the phone', JohnArwe

14:07:01 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

14:07:02 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted

14:07:15 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?

Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, who's on the phone?

14:07:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see azaroth, deiu (muted), Arnaud, codyburleson, SteveS, Alexandre, Ashok_Malhotra, JohnArwe, roger, bblfish, ??P3, TallTed (muted), pchampin

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see azaroth, deiu (muted), Arnaud, codyburleson, SteveS, Alexandre, Ashok_Malhotra, JohnArwe, roger, bblfish, ??P3, TallTed (muted), pchampin

14:07:41 <Arnaud> q=

Arnaud Le Hors: q=

14:07:44 <sergio> Zakim, ??P3 is me

Sergio Fernández: Zakim, ??P3 is me

14:07:44 <Zakim> +sergio; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +sergio; got it

14:07:49 <Arnaud> queue=

Arnaud Le Hors: queue=

14:07:59 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?

Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, who's on the phone?

14:07:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see azaroth, deiu (muted), Arnaud, codyburleson, SteveS, Alexandre, Ashok_Malhotra, JohnArwe, roger, bblfish, sergio, TallTed (muted), pchampin

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see azaroth, deiu (muted), Arnaud, codyburleson, SteveS, Alexandre, Ashok_Malhotra, JohnArwe, roger, bblfish, sergio, TallTed (muted), pchampin

14:09:23 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

<sergio> scribe: sergio

(Scribe set to Sergio Fernández)

<sergio> chair: Arnaud
<sergio> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.09.08
14:09:50 <sergio> topic: Admin

1. Admin

14:11:07 <sergio> RESOLVED: Approve the minutes of last call, 25 August 2014

RESOLVED: Approve the minutes of last call, 25 August 2014

<sergio> Arnaud: next meeting on 15 September 2014

Arnaud Le Hors: next meeting on 15 September 2014

<sergio> ... nothing new on Actions and Issues

... nothing new on Actions and Issues

14:11:19 <sergio> topic: LDP specification

2. LDP specification

<sergio> subtopic: Implementations of IndirectContainer

2.1. Implementations of IndirectContainer

14:10:09 <SteveS> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/tests/reports/ldp.html

Steve Speicher: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/tests/reports/ldp.html

14:12:03 <sergio> Arnaud: reports about the current discussion about indirect containers

Arnaud Le Hors: reports about the current discussion about indirect containers

14:12:12 <TallTed> q+

Ted Thibodeau: q+

14:12:19 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

14:12:19 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted

14:12:26 <sergio> bblfish: reports the last progress on banana-rdf about implementing ldp in scala

Henry Story: reports the last progress on banana-rdf about implementing ldp in scala

14:12:27 <bblfish> https://github.com/w3c/banana-rdf/commits/master

Henry Story: https://github.com/w3c/banana-rdf/commits/master

14:12:32 <azaroth> betehess: Rob Sanderson, Stanford University, co-chair of Web Annotation Working Group  (can intro in voice if useful)

Alexandre Bertails: Rob Sanderson, Stanford University, co-chair of Web Annotation Working Group (can intro in voice if useful) [ Scribe Assist by Robert Sanderson ]

14:12:33 <sergio> bblfish: a lot of commits by Alexandre

Henry Story: a lot of commits by me, as Alexandre can attest

14:12:48 <sergio> bblfish: I'm on track to get that done

Henry Story: I'm on track to get that done

14:12:59 <sergio> bblfish: hard to estimate

Henry Story: hard to estimate

14:13:02 <betehess> s/by Alexandre/by me, as Alexandre can attest/
14:13:04 <sandro> very very funny

Sandro Hawke: very very funny

14:13:24 <sergio> Arnaud: the bottom line, you do not have yet an implementation of ldp:IndirectContainer

Arnaud Le Hors: the bottom line, you do not have yet an implementation of ldp:IndirectContainer

14:14:03 <sergio> bblfish: I have less resources to promise that I'll achieve that in a short time

Henry Story: I have less resources to promise that I'll achieve that in a short time

14:14:35 <SteveS> Is there anyone else that has an IndirectContainer impl in the works?

Steve Speicher: Is there anyone else that has an IndirectContainer impl in the works?

14:14:35 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

14:14:42 <sandro> q+ on IndirectContainer

Sandro Hawke: q+ on IndirectContainer

14:14:49 <Arnaud> ack TallTed

Arnaud Le Hors: ack TallTed

14:15:34 <sergio> TallTed: there are some things in the spec that look not be necessary for a generic server

Ted Thibodeau: there are some things in the spec that look not be necessary for a generic server

14:15:40 <sergio> Arnaud: concrete examples?

Arnaud Le Hors: concrete examples?

14:16:18 <Arnaud> ack sandro

Arnaud Le Hors: ack sandro

14:16:18 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to comment on IndirectContainer

Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, you wanted to comment on IndirectContainer

14:17:01 <SteveS> 4.3.2.1 LDP servers must provide a text/turtle representation of the requested LDP-RS whenever HTTP content negotiation does not force another outcome [turtle].

Steve Speicher: 4.3.2.1 LDP servers must provide a text/turtle representation of the requested LDP-RS whenever HTTP content negotiation does not force another outcome [turtle].

14:17:10 <sergio> TallTed: for instance Turtle is the preferred format

Ted Thibodeau: for instance Turtle is the preferred format

14:18:20 <azaroth> q+

Robert Sanderson: q+

14:18:25 <sergio> Arnaud: the goals to force "at least" to have turtle

Arnaud Le Hors: the goals to force "at least" to have turtle

14:19:02 <sergio> sandro: I'd not change that now

Sandro Hawke: I'd not change that now

14:19:27 <Arnaud> ack azaroth

Arnaud Le Hors: ack azaroth

14:19:39 <sergio> Arnaud: welcome, Rob Sanderson

Arnaud Le Hors: welcome, Rob Sanderson

14:19:47 <sergio> welcome, Rob Sanderson!

welcome, Rob Sanderson!

14:21:03 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

14:21:19 <bblfish> zakim, IPcaller is me

Henry Story: zakim, IPcaller is me

14:21:19 <Zakim> +bblfish; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish; got it

14:21:43 <SteveS> So we only have 3 Indirect Container impls in the works? Carbon LDP (results reported), bblfish and azaroth; right?

Steve Speicher: So we only have 3 Indirect Container impls in the works? Carbon LDP (results reported), bblfish and azaroth; right?

14:21:49 <sergio> Arnaud: from a implementation point of view, we are missing a implementation of ldp:IndirectContainer

Arnaud Le Hors: from a implementation point of view, we are missing a implementation of ldp:IndirectContainer

14:23:10 <sergio> Arnaud: what way are we going to take which does not delay the publication so much

Arnaud Le Hors: what way are we going to take which does not delay the publication so much

14:23:15 <MiguelAraCo> q+

Miguel Aragón: q+

14:23:28 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

14:23:57 <deiu> +1 Sandro

Andrei Sambra: +1 Sandro

14:24:44 <sergio> Arnaud: we go to last call putting ldp:IndirectContainer at risk

Arnaud Le Hors: we go to last call putting ldp:IndirectContainer at risk

14:24:47 <Arnaud> ack MiguelAraCo

Arnaud Le Hors: ack MiguelAraCo

14:24:51 <azaroth> +1 to Sandro

Robert Sanderson: +1 to Sandro

14:25:37 <betehess> +.9  (it's an easy way to move forward but I can't allow myself to give a +1 on something related to Indirect Containers :-)

Alexandre Bertails: +.9 (it's an easy way to move forward but I can't allow myself to give a +1 on something related to Indirect Containers :-)

14:26:17 <sergio> Arnaud: then we might change some of the remaining issues

Arnaud Le Hors: then we might change some of the remaining issues

14:26:19 <sergio> +1

+1

14:26:55 <JohnArwe> wrt Arnaud's earlier comment "ask the editors", doing at-risk instead of a new separate document is FAR less work

John Arwe: wrt Arnaud's earlier comment "ask the editors", doing at-risk instead of a new separate document is FAR less work

14:27:06 <azaroth> deiu: Only for the first day, but yes I was there :)

Andrei Sambra: Only for the first day, but yes I was there :) [ Scribe Assist by Robert Sanderson ]

14:27:22 <azaroth> q+ to discuss 4.2.16

Robert Sanderson: q+ to discuss 4.2.16

14:27:31 <sergio> subTopic: John's email - Link header anchor
14:27:32 <sergio> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2014Sep/0003.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2014Sep/0003.html

14:27:58 <Arnaud> ack azaroth

Arnaud Le Hors: ack azaroth

14:27:58 <Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to discuss 4.2.16

Zakim IRC Bot: azaroth, you wanted to discuss 4.2.16

14:27:59 <sergio> Arnaud: anchor might be required in the Link header

Arnaud Le Hors: anchor might be required in the Link header

14:28:37 <SteveS> wrt Arnaud’s earlier comment “ask the editors”, doing at-risk is much less work for test suite as well

Steve Speicher: wrt Arnaud’s earlier comment “ask the editors”, doing at-risk is much less work for test suite as well

14:29:42 <Arnaud> PROPOSAL: Clarify that the context URI for the Link header is *not* the default, so anchor= is required.

PROPOSED: Clarify that the context URI for the Link header is *not* the default, so anchor= is required.

14:29:50 <azaroth> +1 that it's an issue ; +1 to the fix to require anchor

Robert Sanderson: +1 that it's an issue ; +1 to the fix to require anchor

14:29:54 <JohnArwe> i.e. is it true that our intent (expressed as a

John Arwe: i.e. is it true that our intent (expressed as a

14:29:54 <JohnArwe> pseudo-RDF-triple) was

John Arwe: pseudo-RDF-triple) was

14:29:54 <JohnArwe> newly-created-LDP-NR   describedby   newly-created-LDP-RS

John Arwe: newly-created-LDP-NR describedby newly-created-LDP-RS

14:30:05 <JohnArwe> +1

John Arwe: +1

14:30:05 <sergio> Arnaud: do people agree on the premise that the context URI for the Link header is *not* the default, so anchor= is required.

Arnaud Le Hors: do people agree on the premise that the context URI for the Link header is *not* the default, so anchor= is required.

14:30:22 <SteveS> +1, clarity is good

Steve Speicher: +1, clarity is good

14:30:24 <deiu> +0 (haven't really looked into it)

Andrei Sambra: +0 (haven't really looked into it)

14:30:32 <sergio> +0 (not checked)

+0 (not checked)

14:30:39 <betehess> +0

Alexandre Bertails: +0

14:30:39 <codyburleson> +0 (don't know what we're talking about)

Cody Burleson: +0 (don't know what we're talking about)

14:31:11 <TallTed> ±0 (definitely don't understand the question as here...)

Ted Thibodeau: ±0 (definitely don't understand the question as here...)

14:31:32 <JohnArwe> On Link headers, the default context URI ("RDF triple subject") is the effective request URI; in the case in question, the request was a POST (to create a LDP-NR), so the effective request URI is the POST URI ... LDPC.

John Arwe: On Link headers, the default context URI ("RDF triple subject") is the effective request URI; in the case in question, the request was a POST (to create a LDP-NR), so the effective request URI is the POST URI ... LDPC.

14:31:37 <sergio> Arnaud: can you please JohnArwe explain it

Arnaud Le Hors: can you please JohnArwe explain it

14:31:54 <JohnArwe> ...not the newly created LDP-NR whose URL is in the response 201 Location header

John Arwe: ...not the newly created LDP-NR whose URL is in the response 201 Location header

14:33:28 <codyburleson> So the anchor will point to the NR?

Cody Burleson: So the anchor will point to the NR?

14:33:45 <deiu> This gets even worse when you add the ACL header

Andrei Sambra: This gets even worse when you add the ACL header

14:34:22 <azaroth> q+

Robert Sanderson: q+

14:34:32 <JohnArwe> cody: Link w/o anchor would say: "LDPC describedby newly-created-LDP-RS ...that's associated with the newly described LDP-NR according to the spec"

Cody Burleson: Link w/o anchor would say: "LDPC describedby newly-created-LDP-RS ...that's associated with the newly described LDP-NR according to the spec" [ Scribe Assist by John Arwe ]

14:34:36 <sergio> Arnaud: there is not change related, just needs to get clarified to get people right

Arnaud Le Hors: there is not change related, just needs to get clarified to get people right

14:34:42 <Arnaud> ack azaroth

Arnaud Le Hors: ack azaroth

14:35:43 <betehess> well, +1 now

Alexandre Bertails: well, +1 now

14:35:45 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

14:35:48 <deiu> +1

Andrei Sambra: +1

14:35:51 <azaroth> +1

Robert Sanderson: +1

14:36:00 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: Clarify that the context URI for the Link header is *not* the default, so anchor= is required.

RESOLVED: Clarify that the context URI for the Link header is *not* the default, so anchor= is required.

14:36:30 <sergio> subtopic: Sergio's email - conflict with describedby

2.3. Sergio's email - conflict with describedby

14:38:00 <deiu> sergio: so in other words, you need to have a rel=meta for the NR triples and rel=describedby for constraints?

Sergio Fernández: so in other words, you need to have a rel=meta for the NR triples and rel=describedby for constraints? [ Scribe Assist by Andrei Sambra ]

14:38:38 <sergio> deiu: exacly

Andrei Sambra: exacly

14:38:40 <sergio> deiu: exactly

Andrei Sambra: exactly

14:38:58 <deiu> sergio: I'm using rel=meta for NR triples in my implems :)

Sergio Fernández: I'm using rel=meta for NR triples in my implems :) [ Scribe Assist by Andrei Sambra ]

14:39:14 <azaroth> q+

Robert Sanderson: q+

14:39:18 <JohnArwe> the client has to understand the resource at the target URI to distinguish between these two cases.

John Arwe: the client has to understand the resource at the target URI to distinguish between these two cases.

14:41:07 <Arnaud> ack azaroth

Arnaud Le Hors: ack azaroth

14:42:17 <SteveS> FYI, rel=“meta” is not a registered link relation http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml

Steve Speicher: FYI, rel=“meta” is not a registered link relation http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml

14:42:46 <sergio> azaroth: a solution is to switch to constraints

Robert Sanderson: a solution is to switch to constraints

14:42:51 <sergio> sandro: it is not registered

Sandro Hawke: it is not registered

14:42:51 <JohnArwe> the general argument was that you cannot prevent the client from seeing such conflicts, because no matter what link relation you use, another spec could also use it in a different way (that's still w/in the semantics of the registration).

John Arwe: the general argument was that you cannot prevent the client from seeing such conflicts, because no matter what link relation you use, another spec could also use it in a different way (that's still w/in the semantics of the registration).

14:43:29 <JohnArwe> ... as I said, we could take the position that while we cannot prevent the general problem, we could at least not create it "intentionally" within a single spec.

John Arwe: ... as I said, we could take the position that while we cannot prevent the general problem, we could at least not create it "intentionally" within a single spec.

14:45:37 <sergio> and what about rel='alternate'

and what about rel='alternate'

14:45:39 <sergio> ?

?

14:46:05 <JohnArwe> ...read the registration.

John Arwe: ...read the registration.

14:46:06 <bblfish> mind you last time the debate was not about profile vs meta but profile vs type

Henry Story: mind you last time the debate was not about profile vs meta but profile vs type

14:46:20 <sergio> Arnaud: do we need that we need to change? can we make a decision to leave it to the editor to find the best solution?

Arnaud Le Hors: do we need that we need to change? can we make a decision to leave it to the editor to find the best solution?

14:46:53 <bblfish> q+

Henry Story: q+

14:47:05 <azaroth> +1 on the issue; +1 to keeping describedBy for non-RDF

Robert Sanderson: +1 on the issue; +1 to keeping describedBy for non-RDF

14:47:09 <Arnaud> ack bblfish

Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish

14:47:21 <sergio> Arnaud: we should keep describedby for the associated resource, and find a new one for the constraints

Arnaud Le Hors: we should keep describedby for the associated resource, and find a new one for the constraints

14:48:04 <Arnaud> PROPOSAL: change rel=describedby to rel=<someldpuri> for the LINK header in section 4.2.1.6

PROPOSED: change rel=describedby to rel=<someldpuri> for the LINK header in section 4.2.1.6

14:48:12 <bblfish> ok

Henry Story: ok

14:48:16 <sergio> +1

+1

14:48:26 <betehess> someldpuri?

Alexandre Bertails: someldpuri?

14:48:32 <deiu> +.9 (would much rather see rel=meta registered)

Andrei Sambra: +.9 (would much rather see rel=meta registered)

14:48:50 <JohnArwe> +1

John Arwe: +1

14:49:01 <sergio> (even if rel=meta would be good too)

(even if rel=meta would be good too)

14:49:09 <bblfish> +0 can't really vote here as I did not understand the issue

Henry Story: +0 can't really vote here as I did not understand the issue

14:49:13 <TallTed> +0.5

Ted Thibodeau: +0.5

14:49:15 <roger> +0

Roger Menday: +0

14:49:18 <betehess> +0

Alexandre Bertails: +0

14:49:20 <codyburleson> +0

Cody Burleson: +0

14:49:28 <SteveS> +.5 , see that we could leave as-is and just say need to use out-of-spec knowledge

Steve Speicher: +.5 , see that we could leave as-is and just say need to use out-of-spec knowledge

14:49:28 <azaroth> +1

Robert Sanderson: +1

14:49:40 <sergio> RESOLVED: Change rel=describedby to rel=<some_LDP_URI> for the LINK header in section 4.2.1.6

RESOLVED: Change rel=describedby to rel=<some_LDP_URI> for the LINK header in section 4.2.1.6

14:49:46 <sandro> agenda+ 2NN

Sandro Hawke: agenda+ 2NN

14:50:27 <sergio> Arnaud: then it looks that we have to go to last call

Arnaud Le Hors: then it looks that we have to go to last call

<sergio> subtopic: Turtle Requirement

2.4. Turtle Requirement

14:50:30 <Arnaud> PROPOSAL: change MUST on Turtle to SHOULD

PROPOSED: change MUST on Turtle to SHOULD

14:50:34 <codyburleson> +1

Cody Burleson: +1

14:50:35 <azaroth> +1

Robert Sanderson: +1

14:50:47 <MiguelAraCo> +1

Miguel Aragón: +1

14:50:52 <betehess> +1

Alexandre Bertails: +1

14:51:00 <JohnArwe> +1 to SHOULD turtle when Accept is ABSENT on the request

John Arwe: +1 to SHOULD turtle when Accept is ABSENT on the request

14:51:04 <deiu> +1 (title is a bit vague btw)

Andrei Sambra: +1 (title is a bit vague btw)

14:51:16 <sergio> +0 (better wording, something like "turtle MUST be at least supported")

+0 (better wording, something like "turtle MUST be at least supported")

14:51:18 <SteveS> +0, and MUST support turtle

Steve Speicher: +0, and MUST support turtle

14:51:34 <sandro> PROPOSAL: When the client does not provide an Accept Header, remove the bit about the server MUST send Turtle

PROPOSED: When the client does not provide an Accept Header, remove the bit about the server MUST send Turtle

14:51:45 <azaroth> +1 to John

Robert Sanderson: +1 to John

14:51:55 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: Change MUST on Turtle to SHOULD when Accept is ABSENT on the request

RESOLVED: Change MUST on Turtle to SHOULD when Accept is ABSENT on the request

14:52:04 <sandro> I'm dubious about the SHOULD, given Ted's use case

Sandro Hawke: I'm dubious about the SHOULD, given Ted's use case

14:52:21 <sandro> TURTLE is still MUST when requested

Sandro Hawke: TURTLE is still MUST when requested

14:52:24 <pchampin> +1 to the resolved version :)

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1 to the resolved version :)

14:52:30 <TallTed> +1 JohnArwe's wording context: http://www.w3.org/TR/ldp/#ldprs-get-turtle

Ted Thibodeau: +1 JohnArwe's wording context: http://www.w3.org/TR/ldp/#ldprs-get-turtle

14:52:59 <betehess> +.9

Alexandre Bertails: +.9

14:53:06 <betehess> +0.9

Alexandre Bertails: +0.9

14:53:15 <deiu> +.9

Andrei Sambra: +.9

14:53:16 <bblfish> +1

Henry Story: +1

<sergio> subtopic: Last Call publication

2.5. Last Call publication

14:53:30 <Arnaud> PROPOSAL: Republish LDP as LC with 3 week period, and IndirectContainer as a feature at RISK

PROPOSED: Republish LDP as LC with 3 week period, and IndirectContainer as a feature at RISK

14:53:40 <sergio> +1

+1

14:53:44 <betehess> +1

Alexandre Bertails: +1

14:53:50 <bblfish> what about marking Direct Container at risk?

Henry Story: what about marking Direct Container at risk?

14:54:00 <MiguelAraCo> +1

Miguel Aragón: +1

14:54:05 <deiu> +1 (are there any other items that should be marked as well?)

Andrei Sambra: +1 (are there any other items that should be marked as well?)

14:54:07 <azaroth> To clarify, republish _after_ making the 4.2.1.6 change

Robert Sanderson: To clarify, republish _after_ making the 4.2.1.6 change

14:54:17 <codyburleson> +1

Cody Burleson: +1

14:54:19 <SteveS> +1

Steve Speicher: +1

14:54:19 <sergio> azaroth: all, yes

Robert Sanderson: all, yes

14:54:19 <Ashok> 1

Ashok Malhotra: 1

14:54:22 <azaroth> +1

Robert Sanderson: +1

14:54:24 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

14:54:28 <pchampin> +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

14:54:29 <JohnArwe> +1 just make the pain stop

John Arwe: +1 just make the pain stop

14:54:29 <roger> +1

Roger Menday: +1

14:54:33 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: Republish LDP as LC with 3 week period, and IndirectContainer as a feature at RISK

RESOLVED: Republish LDP as LC with 3 week period, and IndirectContainer as a feature at RISK

14:54:35 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

<sergio> subtopic: JSON-LD requirement

2.6. JSON-LD requirement

14:54:50 <azaroth> JSON-LD was on our list of questions

Robert Sanderson: JSON-LD was on our list of questions

14:54:53 <sergio> bblfish: is time to talk about JSON-LD now?

Henry Story: is time to talk about JSON-LD now?

14:55:04 <azaroth> But happy to take those to the list

Robert Sanderson: But happy to take those to the list

14:55:15 <Arnaud> PROPOSAL: make JSON-LD a MUST when requested by the client

PROPOSED: make JSON-LD a MUST when requested by the client

14:55:16 <sandro> PROPOSED: Servers MUST support JSON-LD when requested by client

PROPOSED: Servers MUST support JSON-LD when requested by client

14:55:20 <Ashok> +1

Ashok Malhotra: +1

14:55:20 <sandro> sorry

Sandro Hawke: sorry

14:55:24 <betehess> but, that's already HTTP, isn't it?

Alexandre Bertails: but, that's already HTTP, isn't it?

14:55:49 <deiu> +.5 in the long term (not supported by my current implems :( )

Andrei Sambra: +.5 in the long term (not supported by my current implems :( )

14:55:49 <SteveS> betehess, no…HTTP it is a should, server doesn’t have to honor Accept

Steve Speicher: betehess, no…HTTP it is a should, server doesn’t have to honor Accept

14:55:53 <azaroth> A server could refuse the request under HTTP with 406

Robert Sanderson: A server could refuse the request under HTTP with 406

14:56:16 <Zakim> -bblfish

Zakim IRC Bot: -bblfish

14:56:30 <JohnArwe> azaroth: with this change, 406 in that case would mean server is non-conformant

Robert Sanderson: with this change, 406 in that case would mean server is non-conformant [ Scribe Assist by John Arwe ]

14:56:38 <azaroth> JohnArwe: Yup

John Arwe: Yup [ Scribe Assist by Robert Sanderson ]

14:56:52 <sergio> +1

+1

14:57:00 <betehess> q+

Alexandre Bertails: q+

14:57:07 <SteveS> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/tests/reports/ldp.html#rdfsource-should

Steve Speicher: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/tests/reports/ldp.html#rdfsource-should

14:57:23 <betehess> q+ to ask about JSON-LD framing

Alexandre Bertails: q+ to ask about JSON-LD framing

14:57:38 <Arnaud> PROPOSAL: Servers MUST support JSON-LD when requested by client, marked as a feature at RISK

PROPOSED: Servers MUST support JSON-LD when requested by client, marked as a feature at RISK

14:57:49 <deiu> +1

Andrei Sambra: +1

14:57:57 <azaroth> betehess: Context and framing is our concern too

Alexandre Bertails: Context and framing is our concern too [ Scribe Assist by Robert Sanderson ]

14:58:05 <codyburleson> +1 (PROPOSED: Servers MUST support JSON-LD when requested by client will be added as feature AT RISK)

Cody Burleson: +1 (PROPOSED: Servers MUST support JSON-LD when requested by client will be added as feature AT RISK)

14:58:07 <TallTed> +0.25

Ted Thibodeau: +0.25

14:58:07 <sergio> +1

+1

14:58:15 <Arnaud> ack betehess

Arnaud Le Hors: ack betehess

14:58:15 <Zakim> betehess, you wanted to ask about JSON-LD framing

Zakim IRC Bot: betehess, you wanted to ask about JSON-LD framing

14:58:17 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller]

14:58:19 <roger> +1

Roger Menday: +1

14:58:20 <sergio> ack betehess

ack betehess

14:59:08 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

14:59:39 <SteveS> +.1 (not sure needed but don’t want to hold it back, JSON is quite important and will support it anyway)

Steve Speicher: +.1 (not sure needed but don’t want to hold it back, JSON is quite important and will support it anyway)

14:59:45 <sergio> betehess: I have some questions about setting the context

Alexandre Bertails: I have some questions about setting the context

14:59:56 <betehess> -0.9 -- useless without specifying stuff about context and framing

Alexandre Bertails: -0.9 -- useless without specifying stuff about context and framing

14:59:58 <azaroth> -0.5 to changing to MUST because of the context/framing being unspecified

Robert Sanderson: -0.5 to changing to MUST because of the context/framing being unspecified

14:59:58 <pchampin> +.9

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +.9

15:00:03 <sergio> Arnaud: not sure if it's relevant for the current discussion

Arnaud Le Hors: not sure if it's relevant for the current discussion

15:00:08 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: Servers MUST support JSON-LD when requested by client, marked as a feature at RISK

RESOLVED: Servers MUST support JSON-LD when requested by client, marked as a feature at RISK

15:00:17 <JohnArwe> +0.011 feels rushed, altho I like -LD

John Arwe: +0.011 feels rushed, altho I like -LD

15:00:37 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ashok_Malhotra

15:00:39 <JohnArwe> ...at risk is fine tho

John Arwe: ...at risk is fine tho

15:00:41 <deiu> bye bye

Andrei Sambra: bye bye

15:00:44 <Zakim> -roger

Zakim IRC Bot: -roger

15:00:46 <Zakim> -deiu

Zakim IRC Bot: -deiu

15:00:51 <Zakim> -azaroth

Zakim IRC Bot: -azaroth

15:00:53 <Zakim> -Alexandre

Zakim IRC Bot: -Alexandre

15:01:12 <JohnArwe> sandro asking about paging status

John Arwe: sandro asking about paging status

15:01:15 <sergio> ok

ok

15:01:16 <betehess> I will probably vote -1 on removing at-risk MUST JSON-LD

Alexandre Bertails: I will probably vote -1 on removing at-risk MUST JSON-LD

15:01:24 <JohnArwe> but formal mtg is over

John Arwe: but formal mtg is over

15:01:36 <betehess> Arnaud, when ca we publish LD Patch ?

Alexandre Bertails: Arnaud, when ca we publish LD Patch ?

15:01:46 <bblfish> btw, what happens when a client asks for both turtle and json-ld?

Henry Story: btw, what happens when a client asks for both turtle and json-ld?

15:01:55 <betehess> you can't

Alexandre Bertails: you can't

15:01:59 <TallTed> ConNeg happens

Ted Thibodeau: ConNeg happens

15:02:01 <betehess> you have a preference

Alexandre Bertails: you have a preference

15:02:02 <deiu> betehess: you must specify a priority

Alexandre Bertails: you must specify a priority [ Scribe Assist by Andrei Sambra ]

15:02:10 <JohnArwe> bblfish: one would presume normal conneg ... q= values govern

Henry Story: one would presume normal conneg ... q= values govern [ Scribe Assist by John Arwe ]

15:02:13 <betehess> hey, I know that, deiu :-)

Alexandre Bertails: hey, I know that, deiu :-)

15:02:19 <azaroth> Also happy to contribute to a subsequent document that made -LD more well defined

Robert Sanderson: Also happy to contribute to a subsequent document that made -LD more well defined

15:02:20 <JohnArwe> ... if q='s ==, server choice (?)

John Arwe: ... if q='s ==, server choice (?)

15:02:23 <deiu> err, s/betehess/bblfish

Andrei Sambra: err, s/betehess/bblfish

15:02:25 <bblfish> yes, but you don't need to put q-values

Henry Story: yes, but you don't need to put q-values

15:02:26 <TallTed> if they evaluate to same preference/priority, it's server's choice

Ted Thibodeau: if they evaluate to same preference/priority, it's server's choice

15:02:26 <betehess> lol

Alexandre Bertails: lol

15:03:12 <pchampin> q+

Pierre-Antoine Champin: q+

15:03:15 <bblfish> what about rdf/xml?

Henry Story: what about rdf/xml?

15:03:19 <Zakim> -codyburleson

Zakim IRC Bot: -codyburleson

15:03:27 <betehess> Arnaud, if you can do the transition request this week for LD Patch, then deiu told he could prepare the spec re: Webmaster

Alexandre Bertails: Arnaud, if you can do the transition request this week for LD Patch, then deiu told he could prepare the spec re: Webmaster

15:03:38 <bblfish> ;-)

Henry Story: ;-)

15:04:34 <Arnaud> betehess: oh, I didn't realize that was on my plate, I will

Alexandre Bertails: oh, I didn't realize that was on my plate, I will [ Scribe Assist by Arnaud Le Hors ]

15:04:36 <Arnaud> sorry

Arnaud Le Hors: sorry

15:04:55 <pchampin> q-

Pierre-Antoine Champin: q-

15:04:55 <betehess> no problem :-)

Alexandre Bertails: no problem :-)

15:04:56 <pchampin> :)

Pierre-Antoine Champin: :)

15:05:22 <betehess> just want a good reason to finish the spec, and provide the test suite

Alexandre Bertails: just want a good reason to finish the spec, and provide the test suite

15:05:38 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

15:05:40 <Zakim> -SteveS

Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveS

15:05:41 <Zakim> -JohnArwe

Zakim IRC Bot: -JohnArwe

15:05:41 <Zakim> -Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud

15:05:42 <Zakim> -sergio

Zakim IRC Bot: -sergio

15:05:42 <Zakim> -TallTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed

15:05:45 <Zakim> -pchampin

Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin

15:05:51 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller]

15:05:52 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended

15:05:52 <Zakim> Attendees were azaroth, deiu, Arnaud, codyburleson, SteveS, Alexandre, Ashok_Malhotra, JohnArwe, pchampin, +33.9.52.33.aaaa, bblfish, roger, TallTed, sergio, Sandro, [IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were azaroth, deiu, Arnaud, codyburleson, SteveS, Alexandre, Ashok_Malhotra, JohnArwe, pchampin, +33.9.52.33.aaaa, bblfish, roger, TallTed, sergio, Sandro, [IPcaller]

<sergio> present: azaroth, deiu, Arnaud, codyburleson, SteveS, Alexandre, Ashok_Malhotra, JohnArwe, pchampin, bblfish, roger, TallTed, sergio, Sandro


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