edit

Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 04 August 2014

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.08.04
Present
Arnaud Le Hors, Andrei Sambra, John Arwe, Alexandre Bertails, Sandro Hawke, Henry Story, Ted Thibodeau, Eric Prud'hommeaux
Regrets
Steve Speicher, Sergio Fernández
Chair
Arnaud Le Hors
Scribe
Henry Story
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. Approved minutes of last week http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-07-28 link
  2. close action-146 link
  3. Proposal accepted link
  4. Proposal approved link
  5. do nothing link
  6. Publish ldp-paging as Last Call WD at earliest convenience, assuming changed agreed upon in today's meeting, and everyone getting 24 hrs (business day) to review said changes. link
Topics
13:58:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/08/04-ldp-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/08/04-ldp-irc

13:58:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public

13:58:57 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be LDP

13:58:57 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

13:58:58 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:58:58 <trackbot> Date: 04 August 2014
13:59:26 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started

13:59:34 <Zakim> +Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud

13:59:57 <Arnaud> ok

Arnaud Le Hors: ok

14:02:12 <Zakim> +Matt

Zakim IRC Bot: +Matt

14:02:18 <deiu> Zakim, +Matt is me

Andrei Sambra: Zakim, +Matt is me

14:02:18 <Zakim> sorry, deiu, I do not recognize a party named '+Matt'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, deiu, I do not recognize a party named '+Matt'

14:02:23 <deiu> Zakim, Matt is me

Andrei Sambra: Zakim, Matt is me

14:02:23 <Zakim> +deiu; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +deiu; got it

14:02:26 <Zakim> +JohnArwe

Zakim IRC Bot: +JohnArwe

14:02:40 <deiu> Zakim, mute me please

Andrei Sambra: Zakim, mute me please

14:02:40 <Zakim> deiu should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: deiu should now be muted

14:03:30 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

14:03:31 <Zakim> +Alexandre

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alexandre

14:03:41 <bblfish> hi

Henry Story: hi

14:03:43 <bblfish> connected

Henry Story: connected

14:03:59 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

14:04:12 <deiu> Skype does VOIP

Andrei Sambra: Skype does VOIP

14:04:13 <bblfish> zakim who is here?

Henry Story: zakim who is here?

14:04:28 <bblfish> Zakim, who is here?

Henry Story: Zakim, who is here?

14:04:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, deiu (muted), JohnArwe, [IPcaller], Alexandre, Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Arnaud, deiu (muted), JohnArwe, [IPcaller], Alexandre, Sandro

14:04:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see JohnArwe, Zakim, RRSAgent, deiu, betehess, TallTed, bblfish, jmvanel, Arnaud, sandro, Yves, ericP, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see JohnArwe, Zakim, RRSAgent, deiu, betehess, TallTed, bblfish, jmvanel, Arnaud, sandro, Yves, ericP, trackbot

14:04:36 <Arnaud> zakim, IPcaller is bblfish

Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, IPcaller is bblfish

14:04:36 <Zakim> +bblfish; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish; got it

14:04:37 <bblfish> mhh

Henry Story: mhh

14:04:43 <bblfish> weird

Henry Story: weird

14:04:48 <bblfish> never did that before.

Henry Story: never did that before.

14:06:56 <JohnArwe> regrets: steve speicher, sergio
14:07:43 <Arnaud> scribe: bblfish

(Scribe set to Henry Story)

<bblfish> chair: Arnaud
<bblfish> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.08.04
14:07:35 <bblfish> Topic: Minutes of Last meeting

1. Minutes of Last meeting

14:07:31 <Arnaud> http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-07-28

Arnaud Le Hors: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-07-28

14:07:44 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

14:07:49 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

14:07:49 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it

14:07:53 <deiu> scribenickL bblfish
14:08:07 <deiu> s/scribenickL bblfish/scribenick: bblfish
14:08:09 <betehess> looks fine to me

Alexandre Bertails: looks fine to me

14:08:27 <bblfish> resolved: Approved minutes of last week http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-07-28

RESOLVED: Approved minutes of last week http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-07-28

14:08:38 <bblfish> next meeting next week

next meeting next week

14:08:50 <bblfish> no objections.... passed

no objections.... passed

14:08:57 <bblfish> Topic: Open Actions

2. Open Actions

14:10:06 <bblfish> action-146?

ACTION-146?

14:10:06 <trackbot> action-146 -- John Arwe to Clarify the spec, saying that our intent is that ldp paging support "signal" requires the presence of the 'pagsize' parameter, and to reply on the public comments list to see if that addresses the concern -- due 2014-08-04 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-146 -- John Arwe to Clarify the spec, saying that our intent is that ldp paging support "signal" requires the presence of the 'pagsize' parameter, and to reply on the public comments list to see if that addresses the concern -- due 2014-08-04 -- OPEN

14:10:07 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/146

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/146

14:10:53 <bblfish> resolved: close action-146

RESOLVED: close ACTION-146

14:10:53 <trackbot> Closed action-146.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ACTION-146.

14:12:07 <bblfish> which action?

which action?

14:12:19 <JohnArwe> action-145?

John Arwe: ACTION-145?

14:12:19 <trackbot> action-145 -- Sandro Hawke to Figure out where json-ld context for ldp goes on w3.org -- due 2014-08-04 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-145 -- Sandro Hawke to Figure out where json-ld context for ldp goes on w3.org -- due 2014-08-04 -- OPEN

14:12:19 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/145

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/145

14:13:01 <bblfish> Arnaud: Two pieces of work: update the primer

Arnaud Le Hors: Two pieces of work: update the primer

14:13:10 <bblfish>  and the other was to ?

and the other was to ?

14:13:52 <JohnArwe> other = serve the json-ld context when a  client GETs the LDP nsuri with accept json-ld

John Arwe: other = serve the json-ld context when a client GETs the LDP nsuri with accept json-ld

14:13:53 <bblfish>  ... send an e-mail to the list with a link to the archive discussion, and a link to the context...

... send an e-mail to the list with a link to the archive discussion, and a link to the context...

14:14:07 <JohnArwe> ericp, you tuned in?

John Arwe: ericp, you tuned in?

14:14:45 <bblfish> Topic: LDP Paging

3. LDP Paging

14:15:03 <bblfish> Arnaud: John what is the status of the spec? What is stopping us from the last call?

Arnaud Le Hors: John what is the status of the spec? What is stopping us from the last call?

14:15:20 <bblfish> JohnArwe: three things on the agenda

John Arwe: three things on the agenda

14:15:55 <deiu> In the channel topic

Andrei Sambra: In the channel topic

14:16:00 <Arnaud> https://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.08.04

Arnaud Le Hors: https://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.08.04

14:16:42 <bblfish> thanks

thanks

14:17:19 <JohnArwe> proposal from the email: 5.1.5 LDP Paging clients SHOULD NOT treat a page sequence as equivalent to

John Arwe: proposal from the email: 5.1.5 LDP Paging clients SHOULD NOT treat a page sequence as equivalent to

14:17:19 <JohnArwe> > the paged resource when the _paged resource changed_ [link to 6.2.8]

John Arwe: > the paged resource when the _paged resource changed_ [link to 6.2.8]

14:17:19 <JohnArwe> > _during retrieval of the page sequence_ [link to 6.2.7].

John Arwe: > _during retrieval of the page sequence_ [link to 6.2.7].

14:17:45 <bblfish> vote

vote

14:17:49 <bblfish> Resolved: Proposal accepted

RESOLVED: Proposal accepted

14:18:09 <bblfish> proposal to add Should on 410 for abandoning page sequences

proposal to add Should on 410 for abandoning page sequences

14:18:16 <Arnaud> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2014Jul/0153.html

Arnaud Le Hors: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2014Jul/0153.html

14:18:33 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

14:18:37 <JohnArwe> proposal was: [[LDP Paging servers SHOULD indicate that they have abandoned a

John Arwe: proposal was: [[LDP Paging servers SHOULD indicate that they have abandoned a

14:18:37 <JohnArwe> > > > sequence by responding with at 410-Gone to any of the in-sequence

John Arwe: > > > sequence by responding with at 410-Gone to any of the in-sequence

14:18:37 <JohnArwe> > > > pages with appropriate paging link response headers, rel='first']]

John Arwe: > > > pages with appropriate paging link response headers, rel='first']]

14:19:02 <bblfish> makes sense

makes sense

14:19:33 <bblfish> Sandro seems to have a cold

Sandro seems to have a cold

14:19:50 <bblfish> sandro is ok with the proposal

sandro is ok with the proposal

14:19:55 <bblfish> Resolved: Proposal approved

RESOLVED: Proposal approved

14:20:18 <bblfish> proposal: best practices authors - willing to adopt paging appendix?

PROPOSED: best practices authors - willing to adopt paging appendix?

14:21:33 <bblfish> sandro: people will probably not read the best practices, and criticise anyway

Sandro Hawke: people will probably not read the best practices, and criticise anyway

14:21:45 <JohnArwe> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/ldp-paging.html#ldpr-impl

John Arwe: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/ldp-paging.html#ldpr-impl

14:21:47 <bblfish> bblfish: I suppose you can always point them to BP

Henry Story: I suppose you can always point them to BP

14:22:30 <bblfish> One argument was that it is always easier to update a BP than it is to update a normative spec

One argument was that it is always easier to update a BP than it is to update a normative spec

14:24:14 <bblfish> search for "consideration" in the spec . last line before 6.2

search for "consideration" in the spec . last line before 6.2

14:24:45 <bblfish> TallTed: has a proposal

Ted Thibodeau: has a proposal

14:25:04 <bblfish> ( or was that someone else ? )

( or was that someone else ? )

14:26:39 <bblfish> TallTed: can you write your proposal down?

Ted Thibodeau: can you write your proposal down?

14:27:08 <JohnArwe> tallted: suggest changing current ref @ end of 6.2 to include 1st paragraph from current appendix A, then move the rest into BP&G and change the existing link in 6.2

Ted Thibodeau: suggest changing current ref @ end of 6.2 to include 1st paragraph from current appendix A, then move the rest into BP&G and change the existing link in 6.2 [ Scribe Assist by John Arwe ]

14:27:14 <bblfish> Arnaud: it seems we have 2 proposals. Either we leave things as they are. Or we move the apendix to the BP doc

Arnaud Le Hors: it seems we have 2 proposals. Either we leave things as they are. Or we move the apendix to the BP doc

14:30:02 <bblfish> Arnaud: we keep it in the spec, no changes

Arnaud Le Hors: we keep it in the spec, no changes

14:30:04 <TallTed> +1 status quo

Ted Thibodeau: +1 status quo

14:30:27 <bblfish> Resolved: do nothing

RESOLVED: do nothing

14:31:47 <bblfish> discussion on last call

discussion on last call

14:33:07 <sandro> PROPOSED: Publish ldp-paging as Last Call WD at earliest convenience, assuming changed agreed upon in today's meeting, and everyone getting 24 hrs (business day) to review said changes.

PROPOSED: Publish ldp-paging as Last Call WD at earliest convenience, assuming changed agreed upon in today's meeting, and everyone getting 24 hrs (business day) to review said changes.

14:33:15 <bblfish> q+

q+

14:33:24 <Arnaud> ack bblfish

Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish

14:34:42 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

14:34:54 <JohnArwe> +1

John Arwe: +1

14:34:55 <deiu> +1

Andrei Sambra: +1

14:34:58 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

14:35:07 <betehess> +0

Alexandre Bertails: +0

14:35:08 <bblfish> well just wanted to know if I could implement it before we push it to last call

well just wanted to know if I could implement it before we push it to last call

14:35:36 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: Publish ldp-paging as Last Call WD at earliest convenience, assuming changed agreed upon in today's meeting, and everyone getting 24 hrs (business day) to review said changes.

RESOLVED: Publish ldp-paging as Last Call WD at earliest convenience, assuming changed agreed upon in today's meeting, and everyone getting 24 hrs (business day) to review said changes.

14:35:57 <bblfish> Topic: LD-Patch

4. LD-Patch

14:36:00 <deiu> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/ldpatch/ldpatch.html

Andrei Sambra: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/ldpatch/ldpatch.html

14:37:56 <bblfish> Arnaud: should we continue ldpatch proposal or move back to SPARQL Update

Arnaud Le Hors: should we continue ldpatch proposal or move back to SPARQL Update

14:38:40 <bblfish> ... we should have a broad discussion here

... we should have a broad discussion here

14:38:44 <Zakim> +EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP

14:39:10 <bblfish> sandro: SPARQL update is not easy either, and there is the question of blank nodes

Sandro Hawke: SPARQL update is not easy either, and there is the question of blank nodes

14:40:13 <bblfish> Three patches: LDPatch, SPARQL Update, and SPARQL Update with bnodes re-ification

Three patches: LDPatch, SPARQL Update, and SPARQL Update with bnodes genid'd

14:40:27 <betehess> are we seriously back to where we were 2 years ago?

Alexandre Bertails: are we seriously back to where we were 2 years ago?

14:41:50 <sandro> s/re-ification/genid'd/
14:41:57 <bblfish> Arnaud: Straw poll

Arnaud Le Hors: Straw poll

14:42:24 <Arnaud> strawpoll: 1) LDPatch, 2) SPARQL Update, or 3) SPARQL Update with bnodes genid'd

STRAWPOLL: 1) LDPatch, 2) SPARQL Update, or 3) SPARQL Update with bnodes genid'd

14:42:28 <deiu> a), b), c)?

Andrei Sambra: a), b), c)?

14:42:44 <sandro> +0 -0 +1

Sandro Hawke: +0 -0 +1

14:42:48 <betehess> what is genid?

Alexandre Bertails: what is genid?

14:42:57 <betehess> I have no idea what this is

Alexandre Bertails: I have no idea what this is

14:43:02 <JohnArwe> genid ?= skolemization

John Arwe: genid ?= skolemization

14:43:05 <bblfish> yes

yes

14:43:09 <sandro> yes, of course

Sandro Hawke: yes, of course

14:43:12 <betehess> would prefer to read skolemization then

Alexandre Bertails: would prefer to read skolemization then

14:43:24 <bblfish> I'd rather we have a) b) c) then we can give reasons

I'd rather we have a) b) c) then we can give reasons

14:43:35 <bblfish> or 1) 2) 3)

or 1) 2) 3)

14:44:52 <betehess> +1 -1 (can't support it completely) -1 (I have scenarios where I cannot support stable bnodes)

Alexandre Bertails: +1 -1 (can't support it completely) -1 (I have scenarios where I cannot support stable bnodes)

14:45:29 <bblfish> 1) LDPatch: 0 it requires one to need write a new parser 2) +0.7 is what I impleemnted 2 years ago with betehess and one should work on a subset is easier 3) +.5 it is the cleverest but does require one more request to the server for bnode

1) LDPatch: 0 it requires one to need write a new parser 2) +0.7 is what I impleemnted 2 years ago with betehess and one should work on a subset is easier 3) +.5 it is the cleverest but does require one more request to the server for bnode

14:45:30 <JohnArwe> -0.5, +0, +0.5

John Arwe: -0.5, +0, +0.5

14:45:54 <TallTed> -0.5, +0.25, +0.5

Ted Thibodeau: -0.5, +0.25, +0.5

14:46:00 <betehess> please read my emails for more detailed explanations for my -1

Alexandre Bertails: please read my emails for more detailed explanations for my -1

14:46:13 <ericP> 0, 1, .3

Eric Prud'hommeaux: 0, 1, .3

14:46:20 <deiu> +1 -0.5 -0.5

Andrei Sambra: +1 -0.5 -0.5

14:46:55 <JohnArwe> betehess do you have urls for your emails?  even if people don't have time now to consume them if new, for the minutes.

John Arwe: betehess do you have urls for your emails? even if people don't have time now to consume them if new, for the minutes.

14:47:21 <betehess> JohnArwe, not directly under my hand

Alexandre Bertails: JohnArwe, not directly under my hand

14:48:09 <betehess> well, if people are not motivated, not sure it's really a good thing to pursue...

Alexandre Bertails: well, if people are not motivated, not sure it's really a good thing to pursue...

14:48:33 <betehess> q+

Alexandre Bertails: q+

14:48:44 <JohnArwe> IIRC from emails the -1s were based on implementation restrictions in his impln

John Arwe: IIRC from emails the -1s were based on implementation restrictions in his impln

14:48:46 <Arnaud> ack betehess

Arnaud Le Hors: ack betehess

14:51:36 <JohnArwe>  1: how much of sparql upd would a implr have to understand?

John Arwe: 1: how much of sparql upd would a implr have to understand?

14:51:50 <JohnArwe>  2: are intermediate result sets required?

John Arwe: 2: are intermediate result sets required?

14:52:13 <JohnArwe> those seem to be the underlying points betehess is poking at

John Arwe: those seem to be the underlying points betehess is poking at

14:58:08 <betehess> https://twitter.com/bertails/status/493784135014834176

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Alexandre Bertails: https://twitter.com/bertails/status/493784135014834176

15:01:35 <bblfish> q+

q+

15:01:45 <Arnaud> ack bblfish

Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish

15:02:08 <JohnArwe> For anyone who wants to see updates from today's resolutions, they're live in the editor's draft.  I have to leave now.

John Arwe: For anyone who wants to see updates from today's resolutions, they're live in the editor's draft. I have to leave now.

15:02:12 <Zakim> -JohnArwe

Zakim IRC Bot: -JohnArwe

15:02:45 <betehess> I'd like to hear what we do next

Alexandre Bertails: I'd like to hear what we do next

15:03:07 <betehess> thanks, /me is leaving now

Alexandre Bertails: thanks, /me is leaving now

15:03:09 <deiu> I would like to see a resolution so I can move on

Andrei Sambra: I would like to see a resolution so I can move on

15:03:12 <Zakim> -Alexandre

Zakim IRC Bot: -Alexandre

15:14:23 <Zakim> -Sandro

(No events recorded for 11 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

15:39:16 <deiu> btw, LD-Patch is currently implemented in python: https://github.com/pchampin/rdfpatch

(No events recorded for 24 minutes)

Andrei Sambra: btw, LD-Patch is currently implemented in python: https://github.com/pchampin/rdfpatch

15:42:08 <bblfish> http://www.scala-js.org/

http://www.scala-js.org/

15:44:33 <bblfish> https://github.com/read-write-web/banana-rdf/commits/rdfstorew

https://github.com/read-write-web/banana-rdf/commits/rdfstorew

15:48:13 <deiu> I have to leave too

Andrei Sambra: I have to leave too

15:48:16 <deiu> bye bye!

Andrei Sambra: bye bye!

15:48:20 <Zakim> -deiu

Zakim IRC Bot: -deiu

15:49:01 <Zakim> -bblfish

Zakim IRC Bot: -bblfish

15:49:03 <Zakim> -Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud

15:49:05 <Zakim> -TallTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed

15:54:05 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, EricP, in SW_LDP()10:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, EricP, in SW_LDP()10:00AM

15:54:07 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended

15:54:07 <Zakim> Attendees were Arnaud, deiu, JohnArwe, Alexandre, Sandro, bblfish, TallTed, EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Arnaud, deiu, JohnArwe, Alexandre, Sandro, bblfish, TallTed, EricP

<bblfish> Present: Arnaud, deiu, JohnArwe, Alexandre, Sandro, bblfish, TallTed, EricP


Formatted by CommonScribe