13:58:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/07/28-ldp-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/07/28-ldp-irc ←
13:58:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
13:58:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be LDP ←
13:58:20 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started ←
13:58:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:58:21 <trackbot> Date: 28 July 2014
13:58:25 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
13:59:11 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
13:59:22 <betehess> Zakim, IPCaller is Alexandre
Alexandre Bertails: Zakim, IPCaller is Alexandre ←
13:59:22 <Zakim> +Alexandre; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Alexandre; got it ←
13:59:55 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
14:00:13 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
14:00:24 <Zakim> +??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17 ←
14:00:31 <deiu> Zakim, ??P17 is me
Andrei Sambra: Zakim, ??P17 is me ←
14:00:31 <Zakim> +deiu; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +deiu; got it ←
14:00:32 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
14:00:40 <deiu> Zakim, mute me please
Andrei Sambra: Zakim, mute me please ←
14:00:40 <Zakim> deiu should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: deiu should now be muted ←
14:00:42 <Zakim> +JohnArwe
Zakim IRC Bot: +JohnArwe ←
14:01:30 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ashok_Malhotra ←
14:02:00 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
14:02:16 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
14:02:16 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it ←
14:02:18 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
14:02:18 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted ←
14:02:38 <deiu> Zakim, who is speaking?
Andrei Sambra: Zakim, who is speaking? ←
14:02:49 <Zakim> deiu, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (46%)
Zakim IRC Bot: deiu, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (46%) ←
14:03:13 <sandro> better?
Sandro Hawke: better? ←
14:03:58 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone/
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, who's on the phone/ ←
14:03:58 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's on the phone/', Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who's on the phone/', Arnaud ←
14:04:09 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
14:04:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see Alexandre, Arnaud, deiu (muted), Sandro, JohnArwe, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Alexandre, Arnaud, deiu (muted), Sandro, JohnArwe, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed (muted) ←
14:04:25 <JohnArwe> regrets: steve speicher, sergio
14:04:27 <Zakim> +Roger
Zakim IRC Bot: +Roger ←
14:04:49 <betehess> scribe: Alexandre
(Scribe set to Alexandre Bertails)
14:04:55 <betehess> scribenick: betehess
<betehess> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.07.21
<betehess> chair: Arnaud
<betehess> topic: Admin
14:05:12 <betehess> Arnaud: let's start with approval of last minutes
Arnaud Le Hors: let's start with approval of last minutes ←
14:05:23 <Zakim> +ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP ←
14:05:23 <betehess> ... any objection?
... any objection? ←
14:05:25 <deiu> minutes looked ok
Andrei Sambra: minutes looked ok ←
14:05:50 <Arnaud> http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-07-21
Arnaud Le Hors: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-07-21 ←
14:05:51 <betehess> ... no objection, approved
... no objection, approved ←
<betehess> resolved: Minutes of 21 July 2014 approved
RESOLVED: Minutes of 21 July 2014 approved ←
14:06:08 <betehess> ... next meeting on Aug 4th
... next meeting on Aug 4th ←
14:06:12 <betehess> ... no objection?
... no objection? ←
14:06:20 <betehess> ... ok, it works
... ok, it works ←
14:06:32 <betehess> ... now actions
... now actions ←
<betehess> topic: Tracking of Actions & Issues
14:06:44 <JohnArwe> issue-99?
14:06:44 <trackbot> issue-99 -- Validate the JSON-LD examples of the primer -- closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-99 -- Validate the JSON-LD examples of the primer -- closed ←
14:06:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/99
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/99 ←
14:07:06 <JohnArwe> email on 99 from nandana: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2014Jul/0066.html
John Arwe: email on 99 from nandana: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2014Jul/0066.html ←
14:07:11 <betehess> ... let's close action-144
... let's close ACTION-144 ←
<betehess> resolved: Close Action-144
RESOLVED: Close ACTION-144 ←
14:07:27 <betehess> JohnArwe: haven't heard back from issue-99
John Arwe: haven't heard back from ISSUE-99 ←
14:07:44 <betehess> ... sandro wanted to publish a json-ld context file in HG
... sandro wanted to publish a json-ld context file in HG ←
14:07:55 <betehess> sandro: sorry, no idea what this is
Sandro Hawke: sorry, no idea what this is ←
14:07:56 <Zakim> +??P4
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P4 ←
14:08:05 <JohnArwe> text of email: In Hydra spec examples, they use a JSON-LD context document,
John Arwe: text of email: In Hydra spec examples, they use a JSON-LD context document, ←
14:08:05 <JohnArwe> http://www.w3.org/ns/hydra/context.jsonld , which correctly sets with the
John Arwe: http://www.w3.org/ns/hydra/context.jsonld , which correctly sets with the ←
14:08:05 <JohnArwe> CORS header "Access-Control-Allow-Origin: *" in the response. If we can do
John Arwe: CORS header "Access-Control-Allow-Origin: *" in the response. If we can do ←
14:08:05 <JohnArwe> the same, it solves the problem that the validators [1] have with our
John Arwe: the same, it solves the problem that the validators [1] have with our ←
14:08:06 <JohnArwe> current JSON-LD context file [2] in the Mercurial repository due to
John Arwe: current JSON-LD context file [2] in the Mercurial repository due to ←
14:08:06 <JohnArwe> cross origin issues. Can we publish a context file in a similar way?
John Arwe: cross origin issues. Can we publish a context file in a similar way? ←
14:08:16 <betehess> Arnaud: Greg Kellogs said that the json-ld examples were not correct
Arnaud Le Hors: Greg Kellogs said that the json-ld examples were not correct ←
14:08:22 <betehess> ... we need to have a context
... we need to have a context ←
14:08:24 <nmihindu> Zakim, ??P4 is me
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Zakim, ??P4 is me ←
14:08:24 <Zakim> +nmihindu; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +nmihindu; got it ←
14:08:28 <betehess> sandro: I understand
Sandro Hawke: I understand ←
14:08:39 <betehess> ... are we publishing context on w3.org?
... are we publishing context on w3.org? ←
14:08:43 <betehess> ... or dvcs.w3.org?
... or dvcs.w3.org? ←
14:08:55 <betehess> ... may not be good for long term
... may not be good for long term ←
14:09:08 <betehess> ... we can start with dvcs.w3.org for now
... we can start with dvcs.w3.org for now ←
14:09:15 <JohnArwe> sounds like an action so we don't lose it?
John Arwe: sounds like an action so we don't lose it? ←
14:09:34 <betehess> ... will raise the issue with json-ld folks
... will raise the issue with json-ld folks ←
14:10:34 <betehess> Arnaud: has to be outside of the document if you don't want to repeat it
Arnaud Le Hors: has to be outside of the document if you don't want to repeat it ←
14:10:52 <betehess> ... sandro, can take the action to see w/ the json-ld folks?
... sandro, can take the action to see w/ the json-ld folks? ←
14:10:56 <sandro> action: sandro figure out where json-ld context for LDP goes on w3.org
ACTION: sandro figure out where json-ld context for LDP goes on w3.org ←
14:10:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-145 - Figure out where json-ld context for ldp goes on w3.org [on Sandro Hawke - due 2014-08-04].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-145 - Figure out where json-ld context for ldp goes on w3.org [on Sandro Hawke - due 2014-08-04]. ←
14:11:34 <betehess> ... anything else re: issues/actions?
... anything else re: issues/actions? ←
14:11:51 <betehess> topic: Paging spec
14:12:05 <betehess> Arnaud: didn't have much time last week to discuss it
Arnaud Le Hors: didn't have much time last week to discuss it ←
14:12:16 <betehess> ... paging was split of the main spec
... paging was split of the main spec ←
14:12:23 <betehess> ... went through 1st LC
... went through 1st LC ←
14:12:31 <betehess> ... want it to move forward
... want it to move forward ←
14:12:56 <betehess> ... has been discussion between sandro and JohnArwe
... has been discussion between sandro and JohnArwe ←
14:13:07 <betehess> ... haven't have a change to catch up with the ML, sorryu
... haven't have a change to catch up with the ML, sorryu ←
14:13:13 <betehess> ... can I have a summary?
... can I have a summary? ←
14:13:31 <betehess> JohnArwe: I have added links to the agenda
John Arwe: I have added links to the agenda ←
14:13:48 <JohnArwe> Steve Speicher had also provided a few comments 1 week + ago, which I agreed with in the large although I don't think I ever responded on the list saying so
John Arwe: Steve Speicher had also provided a few comments 1 week + ago, which I agreed with in the large although I don't think I ever responded on the list saying so ←
14:14:39 <betehess> ... let's start going down the list
... let's start going down the list ←
14:14:52 <betehess> .... "hijacking prefer"
.... "hijacking prefer" ←
14:15:05 <betehess> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-comments/2014Jul/0000.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-comments/2014Jul/0000.html ←
14:15:19 <betehess> ... @@ is nervous about us hijacking Prefer
... Gregory McFall is nervous about us hijacking Prefer ←
14:15:32 <betehess> ... different interpretation
... different interpretation ←
14:15:48 <betehess> ... had a draft response in my email
... had a draft response in my email ←
14:16:07 <betehess> ... the Page size header is important
... the Page size header is important ←
14:16:35 <betehess> ... sandro suggested to clarify that
... sandro suggested to clarify that ←
14:16:38 <deiu> s/@@/Gregory McFall/
14:16:44 <betehess> ... it'd be clearer
... it'd be clearer ←
14:17:17 <betehess> Arnaud: we should just clarify the spec
Arnaud Le Hors: we should just clarify the spec ←
14:17:23 <betehess> ... and ask him if he is happy
... and ask him if he is happy ←
14:17:33 <betehess> JohnArwe: no disagreement?
14:18:00 <betehess> Arnaud: people are comfortable w/ JohnArwe making edits to the spec to clarify the intent, and tell Gregory about that
Arnaud Le Hors: people are comfortable w/ JohnArwe making edits to the spec to clarify the intent, and tell Gregory about that ←
14:18:22 <JohnArwe> action: johnarwe to clarify the spec, saying that our intent is that ldp paging support "signal" requires the presence of the 'pagsize' parameter, and to reply on the public comments list to see if that addresses the concern
ACTION: johnarwe to clarify the spec, saying that our intent is that ldp paging support "signal" requires the presence of the 'pagsize' parameter, and to reply on the public comments list to see if that addresses the concern ←
14:18:22 <trackbot> Error finding 'johnarwe'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/users>.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Error finding 'johnarwe'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/users>. ←
14:18:40 <JohnArwe> action: john to clarify the spec, saying that our intent is that ldp paging support "signal" requires the presence of the 'pagsize' parameter, and to reply on the public comments list to see if that addresses the concern
ACTION: john to clarify the spec, saying that our intent is that ldp paging support "signal" requires the presence of the 'pagsize' parameter, and to reply on the public comments list to see if that addresses the concern ←
14:18:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-146 - Clarify the spec, saying that our intent is that ldp paging support "signal" requires the presence of the 'pagsize' parameter, and to reply on the public comments list to see if that addresses the concern [on John Arwe - due 2014-08-04].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-146 - Clarify the spec, saying that our intent is that ldp paging support "signal" requires the presence of the 'pagsize' parameter, and to reply on the public comments list to see if that addresses the concern [on John Arwe - due 2014-08-04]. ←
14:18:58 <betehess> ... next is: Must Not > Should Not http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-comments/2014Jul/0002.html
... next is: Must Not > Should Not http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-comments/2014Jul/0002.html ←
14:19:21 <betehess> JohnArwe: it's about the wording on client signaling to the server
John Arwe: it's about the wording on client signaling to the server ←
14:19:39 <betehess> ... initially MUST NOT, sandro proposed SHOULD NOT
... initially MUST NOT, sandro proposed SHOULD NOT ←
14:19:46 <betehess> Arnaud: are we circling back?
Arnaud Le Hors: are we circling back? ←
14:20:12 <betehess> sandro: MUST NOT was because we want to avoid having broken clients everywhere
Sandro Hawke: MUST NOT was because we want to avoid having broken clients everywhere ←
14:20:47 <betehess> ... but sometimes, the server knows it's a bad idea
... but sometimes, the server knows it's a bad idea ←
14:20:47 <deiu> q+
Andrei Sambra: q+ ←
14:20:55 <betehess> ... and would prefer to fail
... and would prefer to fail ←
14:21:03 <betehess> ... eg. the payload is too big
... eg. the payload is too big ←
14:21:11 <betehess> ... hence SHOULD NTO
... hence SHOULD NTO ←
14:21:21 <ericP> i thought the issue was that we don't want the server to lie to the client
Eric Prud'hommeaux: i thought the issue was that we don't want the server to lie to the client ←
14:21:37 <sandro> its never lying eric
Sandro Hawke: its never lying eric ←
14:21:42 <betehess> Arnaud: that's similar to original argument
Arnaud Le Hors: that's similar to original argument ←
14:22:13 <ericP> it is if you ever care about the difference between the whole resource and a page of it
Eric Prud'hommeaux: it is if you ever care about the difference between the whole resource and a page of it ←
14:22:18 <betehess> ... this is not radical change
... this is not radical change ←
14:22:34 <TallTed> it's negotiation.... neither side is purely in control
Ted Thibodeau: it's negotiation.... neither side is purely in control ←
14:22:42 <betehess> ... what to people think?
... what to people think? ←
14:22:43 <ericP> i'd expect timbl to have issues with this too
Eric Prud'hommeaux: i'd expect timbl to have issues with this too ←
14:22:46 <deiu> Is there a way then to explicitly tell the server that you want the whole thing?
Andrei Sambra: Is there a way then to explicitly tell the server that you want the whole thing? ←
14:22:59 <JohnArwe> personally, I'm fine with should. I missed the original "must" add, and if you remember my reaction the next week, it was barely printable.
John Arwe: personally, I'm fine with should. I missed the original "must" add, and if you remember my reaction the next week, it was barely printable. ←
14:23:00 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:23:00 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted ←
14:23:07 <deiu> Or is the server _always_ going to force paging because it's "smarter"
Andrei Sambra: Or is the server _always_ going to force paging because it's "smarter" ←
14:23:47 <deiu> q-
Andrei Sambra: q- ←
14:24:05 <betehess> sandro: the wording should not allow server to do paging if they think the client wants it
Sandro Hawke: the wording should not allow server to do paging if they think the client wants it ←
14:24:29 <TallTed> TallTed: HTTP spec wants the technology to figure things out on its own when it can, but has a "pass to user" when it can't, e.g., ConNeg
Ted Thibodeau: HTTP spec wants the technology to figure things out on its own when it can, but has a "pass to user" when it can't, e.g., ConNeg [ Scribe Assist by Ted Thibodeau ] ←
14:24:39 <betehess> ericP: I think timbl couldn't tell the difference between full resource and paged one
Eric Prud'hommeaux: I think timbl couldn't tell the difference between full resource and paged one ←
14:24:39 <JohnArwe> sandro: wants the sense to be "not whenever you want to page"
Sandro Hawke: wants the sense to be "not whenever you want to page" [ Scribe Assist by John Arwe ] ←
14:24:52 <TallTed> TallTed: This might be one of those places
Ted Thibodeau: This might be one of those places [ Scribe Assist by Ted Thibodeau ] ←
14:24:58 <JohnArwe> we have 303 now
14:24:58 <betehess> ... how do we tell the client: here is the full thing, and a page of it
... how do we tell the client: here is the full thing, and a page of it ←
14:25:05 <JohnArwe> this is not about 2nn
John Arwe: this is not about 2nn ←
14:25:11 <deiu> aha, ok
Andrei Sambra: aha, ok ←
14:25:17 <betehess> sandro: this only applies to 303
Sandro Hawke: this only applies to 303 ←
14:25:23 <betehess> ... not 2nn
... not 2nn ←
14:27:02 <JohnArwe> sandro: believe I was told that getting the value of 2nn could be done in 1 week outside of wg.
Sandro Hawke: believe I was told that getting the value of 2nn could be done in 1 week outside of wg. [ Scribe Assist by John Arwe ] ←
14:27:29 <ericP> Yves, ears on?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Yves, ears on? ←
14:28:44 <betehess> Arnaud: back to MUST/SHOULD NOT
Arnaud Le Hors: back to MUST/SHOULD NOT ←
14:28:51 <TallTed> +1 SHOULD
Ted Thibodeau: +1 SHOULD ←
14:28:55 <betehess> ... we have a proposal: moving back to SHOULD NOT
... we have a proposal: moving back to SHOULD NOT ←
14:29:05 <JohnArwe> +1 should not
14:29:26 <ericP> action: ericP to follow up on Yves's way to turn 2NN into a number without waiting for the draft to go to RFC
ACTION: ericP to follow up on Yves's way to turn 2NN into a number without waiting for the draft to go to RFC ←
14:29:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-147 - Follow up on yves's way to turn 2nn into a number without waiting for the draft to go to rfc [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2014-08-04].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-147 - Follow up on yves's way to turn 2nn into a number without waiting for the draft to go to rfc [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2014-08-04]. ←
14:29:30 <betehess> PROPOSAL: moving MUST NOT to SHOULD NOT
PROPOSED: moving MUST NOT to SHOULD NOT ←
14:29:41 <betehess> +0
+0 ←
14:29:57 <deiu> +0 (as long as clients can request the full representation)
Andrei Sambra: +0 (as long as clients can request the full representation) ←
14:30:14 <sandro> PROPOSAL: Say that servers SHOULD NOT initiate paging by 303-redirecting to the rel=first page
PROPOSED: Say that servers SHOULD NOT initiate paging by 303-redirecting to the rel=first page ←
14:30:24 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
14:30:36 <Ashok> +1
Ashok Malhotra: +1 ←
14:30:37 <betehess> +0
+0 ←
14:30:49 <sandro> PROPOSAL: Say that servers SHOULD NOT initiate paging by 303-redirecting to the rel=first page (in the case where the client DIDNT ask for it); this does NOT apply to 2nn
PROPOSED: Say that servers SHOULD NOT initiate paging by 303-redirecting to the rel=first page (in the case where the client DIDNT ask for it); this does NOT apply to 2nn ←
14:30:57 <betehess> ericP: you want to include that 2nn cannot be used there?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: you want to include that 2nn cannot be used there? ←
14:31:00 <deiu> +0
Andrei Sambra: +0 ←
14:31:03 <JohnArwe> +1
14:31:03 <betehess> ... bah, should be fine
... bah, should be fine ←
14:31:04 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
14:31:07 <nmihindu> +1
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: +1 ←
14:31:09 <TallTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
14:31:10 <roger> +1
Roger Menday: +1 ←
14:31:23 <sandro> RESOLVED: Say that servers SHOULD NOT initiate paging by 303-redirecting to the rel=first page (in the case where the client DIDNT ask for it); this does NOT apply to 2nn
RESOLVED: Say that servers SHOULD NOT initiate paging by 303-redirecting to the rel=first page (in the case where the client DIDNT ask for it); this does NOT apply to 2nn ←
14:31:47 <betehess> Arnaud: next is: Adding items/pages
Arnaud Le Hors: next is: Adding items/pages ←
14:32:01 <betehess> JohnArwe: part of it was about sorting in a container
John Arwe: part of it was about sorting in a container ←
14:32:48 <betehess> ... difference of interpretation between sandro and I
... difference of interpretation between sandro and I ←
14:33:06 <betehess> ... but we may be in phase, sandro would need to read my response
... but we may be in phase, sandro would need to read my response ←
14:34:27 <betehess> sandro: a sorted container must add where it belongs, an unsorted container must add at the end
Sandro Hawke: a sorted container must add where it belongs, an unsorted container must add at the end ←
14:34:44 <sandro> sandro: sorted paging is always at the end, unsorted is always at the end
Sandro Hawke: sorted paging is always at the end, unsorted is always at the end [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
14:34:56 <sandro> sandro: sorted paging is always at the rigtht place, unsorted is always at the end
Sandro Hawke: sorted paging is always at the rigtht place, unsorted is always at the end [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
14:35:49 <betehess> sandro: there are some invariant wrt previous/next links
Sandro Hawke: there are some invariant wrt previous/next links ←
14:36:03 <betehess> ... it is sorted paging, not sorted container
... it is sorted paging, not sorted container ←
14:37:02 <betehess> ... raises the question to rename from SortedContainer to SortedPaged
... raises the question to rename from SortedContainer to SortedPaged ←
14:37:03 <sandro> sandro: what about using pageSortCriteria and pagingSortCriterion ?
Sandro Hawke: what about using pageSortCriteria and pagingSortCriterion ? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
14:37:17 <betehess> JohnArwe: things are randomly ordered on a given page
John Arwe: things are randomly ordered on a given page ←
14:37:36 <betehess> Arnaud: that is not a property on the container
Arnaud Le Hors: that is not a property on the container ←
14:37:42 <betehess> ... (like that)
... (like that) ←
14:37:52 <betehess> JohnArwe: there would be not value on the container
John Arwe: there would be not value on the container ←
14:38:41 <betehess> sandro: you only see the sorting when you are doing paging
Sandro Hawke: you only see the sorting when you are doing paging ←
14:38:52 <JohnArwe> LDP today *does not* guarantee that *representations* are sorted, and each page is a repn
John Arwe: LDP today *does not* guarantee that *representations* are sorted, and each page is a repn ←
14:39:09 <sandro> pagingSortCriteria, pagingSortCriterion, pagingSortCollation
Sandro Hawke: pagingSortCriteria, pagingSortCriterion, pagingSortCollation ←
14:39:12 <betehess> ... there is no order in a specific graph
... there is no order in a specific graph ←
14:39:37 <sandro> pagingSortPredicate, pagingSortOrder
Sandro Hawke: pagingSortPredicate, pagingSortOrder ←
14:39:42 <betehess> JohnArwe: on a single page, this is just RDF
John Arwe: on a single page, this is just RDF ←
14:41:02 <JohnArwe> which 'so much expressiveness' are you thinking of? I think of paging as being very thin.
John Arwe: which 'so much expressiveness' are you thinking of? I think of paging as being very thin. ←
14:41:34 <betehess> Arnaud: we
Arnaud Le Hors: we ←
14:41:47 <betehess> Arnaud: we're only talking about some renaming for now
Arnaud Le Hors: we're only talking about some renaming for now ←
14:42:03 <betehess> ... other discussions are interesting, but we're diverging
... other discussions are interesting, but we're diverging ←
14:42:58 <deiu> Being able to specify a sorting criteria seems very useful, though it looks more like filtering to me.
Andrei Sambra: Being able to specify a sorting criteria seems very useful, though it looks more like filtering to me. ←
14:43:03 <betehess> PROPOSAL: rename from SortedContainer to SortedPaged
14:43:30 <betehess> PROPOSAL: use pageSortCriteria and pagingSortCriterion
PROPOSED: use pageSortCriteria and pagingSortCriterion ←
14:43:38 <betehess> s/PROPOSAL: rename from SortedContainer to SortedPaged//
14:44:06 <betehess> +0, with all my heart
+0, with all my heart ←
14:44:06 <JohnArwe> +1 rename
14:44:23 <deiu> +0 (by the way, would clients expect ordered results after specifying a sort criteria?)
Andrei Sambra: +0 (by the way, would clients expect ordered results after specifying a sort criteria?) ←
14:44:38 <sandro> PROPOSAL: rename the paging predicates and classes to be like pagingSortCritera, since it's about the paging, not about the container
PROPOSED: rename the paging predicates and classes to be like pagingSortCritera, since it's about the paging, not about the container ←
14:44:40 <TallTed> +0.5
Ted Thibodeau: +0.5 ←
14:44:43 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
14:44:50 <betehess> +0
+0 ←
14:45:03 <sandro> RESOLVED: rename the paging predicates and classes to be like pagingSortCritera, since it's about the paging, not about the container
RESOLVED: rename the paging predicates and classes to be like pagingSortCritera, since it's about the paging, not about the container ←
14:46:00 <betehess> sandro: the server says "btw, this is sorted that way"
Sandro Hawke: the server says "btw, this is sorted that way" ←
14:46:11 <betehess> ... the client can say "btw, this is the sorting I like"
... the client can say "btw, this is the sorting I like" ←
14:46:46 <Ashok> yes
Ashok Malhotra: yes ←
14:46:47 <JohnArwe> sandro wants to use the SAME link syntax to allow the client to express its preference for sort criteria
John Arwe: sandro wants to use the SAME link syntax to allow the client to express its preference for sort criteria ←
14:47:41 <sandro> sandro: How about allowing the clients to request the server what sort order it wants?
Sandro Hawke: How about allowing the clients to request the server what sort order it wants? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
14:48:01 <betehess> Arnaud: maybe this is a broader question
Arnaud Le Hors: maybe this is a broader question ←
14:48:21 <betehess> ... that would be for sorting now, may not scale
... that would be for sorting now, may not scale ←
14:48:28 <betehess> +1 to Arnaud
+1 to Arnaud ←
14:49:18 <betehess> Arnaud: we can document it for next version
Arnaud Le Hors: we can document it for next version ←
14:50:45 <betehess> Arnaud: anything else on paging to discuss now?
Arnaud Le Hors: anything else on paging to discuss now? ←
14:53:36 <sandro> JohnArwe: if we include the link request header, we might get some pushback
John Arwe: if we include the link request header, we might get some pushback [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
14:53:54 <betehess> Arnaud: we have time constraints
Arnaud Le Hors: we have time constraints ←
14:53:57 <sandro> Arnaud: I'm going to rule out-of-scope the client requesting the sort order
Arnaud Le Hors: I'm going to rule out-of-scope the client requesting the sort order [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
14:54:15 <betehess> ... what does it take to go for LC?
... what does it take to go for LC? ←
14:54:30 <betehess> JohnArwe: steve and sandro have been providing feedback
John Arwe: steve and sandro have been providing feedback ←
14:55:05 <betehess> sandro: we still have 2nn at risk
Sandro Hawke: we still have 2nn at risk ←
14:55:16 <betehess> ... people can't really implement today
... people can't really implement today ←
14:56:09 <betehess> Arnaud: a few changes have to be made to the spec
Arnaud Le Hors: a few changes have to be made to the spec ←
14:56:12 <sandro> sandro: it would be nice to settle on 209 instead of 2nn so people can try implementing it!
Sandro Hawke: it would be nice to settle on 209 instead of 2nn so people can try implementing it! [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
14:56:18 <betehess> ... JohnArwe will tell us when it's done
... JohnArwe will tell us when it's done ←
14:56:39 <betehess> ... then we can decide to go LC last week
... then we can decide to go LC last week ←
14:56:48 <betehess> ... that's last chance for people to review
... that's last chance for people to review ←
14:57:21 <betehess> Arnaud: wanted to talk on Access Control spec
Arnaud Le Hors: wanted to talk on Access Control spec ←
14:57:33 <JohnArwe> topic: Access Control spec
14:57:44 <betehess> Ashok: one feedback was we have no fine grained access control
Ashok Malhotra: one feedback was we have no fine grained access control ←
14:58:09 <betehess> ... another comment was about resources
... another comment was about resources ←
14:58:42 <betehess> Arnaud: first question is interesting, as it's about the meaning of publishing this
Arnaud Le Hors: first question is interesting, as it's about the meaning of publishing this ←
14:58:59 <betehess> ... the NOTE is about what we'd want to see in access control
... the NOTE is about what we'd want to see in access control ←
14:59:03 <betehess> ... it's not binding us
... it's not binding us ←
14:59:20 <betehess> ... next group would be free to ignore it, it's just an input
... next group would be free to ignore it, it's just an input ←
15:00:24 <betehess> ericP: coming from outside, fine grained would mean dealing with triples
Eric Prud'hommeaux: coming from outside, fine grained would mean dealing with triples ←
15:00:39 <betehess> Arnaud: are we ready to publish this document?
Arnaud Le Hors: are we ready to publish this document? ←
15:00:53 <betehess> ... I guess you'd prefer to hear from henry
... I guess you'd prefer to hear from henry ←
15:01:09 <betehess> sandro: how are we speaking about fine grain?
Sandro Hawke: how are we speaking about fine grain? ←
15:01:15 <betehess> Arnaud: was just a comment
Arnaud Le Hors: was just a comment ←
15:01:46 <betehess> ... it depends on definition of fine grain
... it depends on definition of fine grain ←
15:02:01 <betehess> sandro: you have a url on everything you are setting permission on
Sandro Hawke: you have a url on everything you are setting permission on ←
15:02:27 <betehess> ... this is confusing because URL can be anything
... this is confusing because URL can be anything ←
15:02:42 <ericP> if i go to a linkedin page and i'm logged in, i see more than if i'm not
Eric Prud'hommeaux: if i go to a linkedin page and i'm logged in, i see more than if i'm not ←
15:02:46 <betehess> Arnaud: we're out of time
Arnaud Le Hors: we're out of time ←
15:02:54 <betehess> ... we can get an updated version
... we can get an updated version ←
15:02:56 <ericP> i'd characterize that as fine-grained
Eric Prud'hommeaux: i'd characterize that as fine-grained ←
15:03:23 <betehess> Arnaud: people have been talking on ML about LD Patch format
Arnaud Le Hors: people have been talking on ML about LD Patch format ←
15:03:28 <betehess> ... crazy people
... crazy people ←
15:03:39 <betehess> ... we'll get back to Patch next
... we'll get back to Patch next ←
15:03:50 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ashok_Malhotra ←
15:03:54 <betehess> ... and we'll try to publish Paging as well
... and we'll try to publish Paging as well ←
15:03:55 <TallTed> fine-grained is in the eye of the beholder/implementer. for purposes of ACLs, fine-grained is the smallest thing you can identify, which in this world is the smallest thing you can specify by URI.
Ted Thibodeau: fine-grained is in the eye of the beholder/implementer. for purposes of ACLs, fine-grained is the smallest thing you can identify, which in this world is the smallest thing you can specify by URI. ←
15:03:56 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
15:04:00 <Zakim> -nmihindu
Zakim IRC Bot: -nmihindu ←
15:04:02 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
15:04:05 <Zakim> -deiu
Zakim IRC Bot: -deiu ←
15:04:06 <Zakim> -TallTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed ←
15:04:06 <Zakim> -JohnArwe
Zakim IRC Bot: -JohnArwe ←
15:04:07 <Zakim> -Roger
Zakim IRC Bot: -Roger ←
15:04:07 <Zakim> -Alexandre
Zakim IRC Bot: -Alexandre ←
15:04:09 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
15:04:09 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended ←
15:04:09 <Zakim> Attendees were Sandro, Alexandre, Arnaud, deiu, JohnArwe, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed, Roger, ericP, nmihindu
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Sandro, Alexandre, Arnaud, deiu, JohnArwe, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed, Roger, ericP, nmihindu ←
<betehess> Present: Sandro, Alexandre, Arnaud, deiu, JohnArwe, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed, Roger, ericP, nmihindu
15:04:36 <ericP> TallTed, so i think you've used your definition to say that linked-in acls are out of scope
Eric Prud'hommeaux: TallTed, so i think you've used your definition to say that linked-in acls are out of scope ←
15:05:09 <ericP> (i also thinkg that most folks would interpret document-level acls as course-grained)
Eric Prud'hommeaux: (i also thinkg that most folks would interpret document-level acls as course-grained) ←
15:05:10 <TallTed> the variance in what you see on a LinkedIn page isn't the *page* but the *elements on that page*
Ted Thibodeau: the variance in what you see on a LinkedIn page isn't the *page* but the *elements on that page* ←
15:05:38 <ericP> if it were RDF, the variance would be that logged-in, you see more triples
Eric Prud'hommeaux: if it were RDF, the variance would be that logged-in, you see more triples ←
15:06:46 <TallTed> yes, you see more triples -- but the ACLs are on the resources which comprise the composite resource (container) you're GETting
Ted Thibodeau: yes, you see more triples -- but the ACLs are on the resources which comprise the composite resource (container) you're GETting ←
15:07:46 <TallTed> per-triple ACLs are kind of like saying "you can have the odd numbered slices of bread in this loaf"
Ted Thibodeau: per-triple ACLs are kind of like saying "you can have the odd numbered slices of bread in this loaf" ←
15:08:36 <TallTed> or, "you can't have slices #5, #7, or #12, but here's the rest of the loaf"
Ted Thibodeau: or, "you can't have slices #5, #7, or #12, but here's the rest of the loaf" ←
Formatted by CommonScribe