13:54:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/24-ldp-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/24-ldp-irc ←
13:54:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
13:54:31 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be LDP ←
13:54:31 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started ←
13:54:32 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:54:32 <trackbot> Date: 24 March 2014
13:54:33 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call? ←
13:54:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see [IPcaller] ←
13:54:47 <sandro> zakim, IPcaller is Sandro
Sandro Hawke: zakim, IPcaller is Sandro ←
13:54:47 <Zakim> +Sandro; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro; got it ←
13:59:58 <Zakim> +Roger
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: +Roger ←
14:00:12 <Zakim> -Roger
Zakim IRC Bot: -Roger ←
14:00:54 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
14:01:39 <sergio> hi
Sergio Fernández: hi ←
14:01:56 <Zakim> +Roger
Zakim IRC Bot: +Roger ←
14:01:59 <Arnaud> Arnaud has changed the topic to: LDP WG: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp - next agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.03.24l
Arnaud Le Hors: Arnaud has changed the topic to: LDP WG: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp - next agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.03.24l ←
14:02:50 <Zakim> + +43.660.274.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +43.660.274.aaaa ←
14:02:54 <Zakim> +[IBM]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM] ←
14:03:05 <SteveS> Zakim, [IBM] is me
Steve Speicher: Zakim, [IBM] is me ←
14:03:05 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveS; got it ←
14:03:16 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
14:03:17 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ashok_Malhotra ←
14:03:38 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
14:03:38 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it ←
14:03:40 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
14:03:40 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted ←
14:03:59 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
14:03:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, Arnaud, Roger, +43.660.274.aaaa, SteveS, TallTed (muted), Ashok_Malhotra
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Sandro, Arnaud, Roger, +43.660.274.aaaa, SteveS, TallTed (muted), Ashok_Malhotra ←
14:04:04 <TallTed> TallTed has changed the topic to: LDP WG: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp - next agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.03.24
Ted Thibodeau: TallTed has changed the topic to: LDP WG: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp - next agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.03.24 ←
14:04:06 <Zakim> +JohnArwe
Zakim IRC Bot: +JohnArwe ←
14:04:12 <sergio> Zakim, +43.660.274.aaaa is me
Sergio Fernández: Zakim, +43.660.274.aaaa is me ←
14:04:12 <Zakim> +sergio; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +sergio; got it ←
14:04:41 <Zakim> +ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP ←
14:05:56 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
14:05:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, Arnaud, Roger, sergio, SteveS, TallTed (muted), Ashok_Malhotra, JohnArwe, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Sandro, Arnaud, Roger, sergio, SteveS, TallTed (muted), Ashok_Malhotra, JohnArwe, ericP ←
14:07:41 <ericP> scribenick: ericP
(Scribe set to Eric Prud'hommeaux)
<ericP> chair: Arnaud
<ericP> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.03.24
<ericP> regrets: cody
<ericP> present: sandro, roger, arnaud, sergio, tallted, steves, ashok, johnarwe, ericp, bblfish, nmihindu
<ericP> topic: Admin
14:08:00 <Arnaud> http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-03-17
Arnaud Le Hors: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-03-17 ←
14:08:00 <ericP> Proposal: Approve the minutes of the March 17 teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-03-17
PROPOSED: Approve the minutes of the March 17 teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-03-17 ←
14:09:13 <SteveS> +1
Steve Speicher: +1 ←
14:09:28 <ericP> +1
+1 ←
<ericP> Resolved: Approved minutes of the March 17 teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-03-17
RESOLVED: Approved minutes of the March 17 teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-03-17 ←
14:09:43 <ericP> next meeting is next week, March 31
next meeting is next week, March 31 ←
14:10:17 <SteveS> ericP did you remember ACTION-135 ?
Steve Speicher: ericP did you remember ACTION-135 ? ←
14:10:27 <ericP> Arnaud: europe changes times so we'll back in synch between US and Europe
Arnaud Le Hors: europe changes times so we'll back in synch between US and Europe ←
14:10:35 <ericP> topic: Tracking of Actions and Issues
<ericP> roger: work on primer underway, but not complete yet
Roger Menday: work on primer underway, but not complete yet ←
<ericP> no other news
no other news ←
14:12:27 <Zakim> +bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish ←
14:12:32 <ericP> topic: F2F5 Boston
14:13:05 <ericP> Arnaud: only a hand-full of folks have updated the wiki with their attendance expectations
Arnaud Le Hors: only a hand-full of folks have updated the wiki with their attendance expectations ←
14:13:18 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/F2F5 F2F5 expected attendance
-> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/F2F5 F2F5 expected attendance ←
14:13:32 <ericP> topic: LDP spec
<ericP> subtopic: Link header on requests
14:13:56 <ericP> Arnaud: sergio doubts that the link header can be used in a request
Arnaud Le Hors: sergio doubts that the link header can be used in a request ←
14:14:13 <bblfish> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988
Henry Story: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988 ←
14:14:19 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
14:14:31 <sergio> q+
Sergio Fernández: q+ ←
14:14:44 <ericP> sergio: specified as a server header
Sergio Fernández: specified as a server header ←
14:14:56 <Arnaud> ack sandro
Arnaud Le Hors: ack sandro ←
14:15:03 <Zakim> +??P16
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P16 ←
14:15:09 <JohnArwe> q+ to mention the contents of 5988 section 5
John Arwe: q+ to mention the contents of 5988 section 5 ←
14:15:13 <nmihindu> Zakim, ??P16 is me
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Zakim, ??P16 is me ←
14:15:13 <Zakim> +nmihindu; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +nmihindu; got it ←
14:15:19 <nmihindu> Zakim, mute me
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Zakim, mute me ←
14:15:19 <Zakim> nmihindu should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: nmihindu should now be muted ←
14:15:20 <bblfish> q+
Henry Story: q+ ←
14:15:29 <ericP> sandro: i asked mnot a week ago whether we could use link on a request
Sandro Hawke: i asked mnot a year ago whether we could use link on a request ←
14:15:36 <ericP> mnot said sure, in a POST
mnot said sure, in a POST ←
14:15:38 <sandro> s/week/year
14:15:40 <Arnaud> ack sergio
Arnaud Le Hors: ack sergio ←
14:15:40 <ericP> ... mnot said sure, in a POST
... mnot said sure, in a POST ←
14:15:58 <JohnArwe> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988#section-5 specifically says: The Link entity-header field provides a means for serialising one or
John Arwe: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988#section-5 specifically says: The Link entity-header field provides a means for serialising one or ←
14:15:58 <JohnArwe> more links in HTTP headers.
John Arwe: more links in HTTP headers. ←
14:16:02 <ericP> ... that's not a formal answer, but mnot's an authority
... that's not a formal answer, but mnot's an authority ←
14:16:40 <Arnaud> ack JohnArwe
Arnaud Le Hors: ack JohnArwe ←
14:16:40 <Zakim> JohnArwe, you wanted to mention the contents of 5988 section 5
Zakim IRC Bot: JohnArwe, you wanted to mention the contents of 5988 section 5 ←
14:16:48 <ericP> sergio: it'd be nice to have an authoritative answer
Sergio Fernández: it'd be nice to have an authoritative answer ←
14:16:52 <JohnArwe> section 4.1 says: However, they can specify the
John Arwe: section 4.1 says: However, they can specify the ←
14:16:52 <JohnArwe> behaviours and properties of the target resource (e.g., allowable
John Arwe: behaviours and properties of the target resource (e.g., allowable ←
14:16:52 <JohnArwe> HTTP methods, request and response media types that must be
John Arwe: HTTP methods, request and response media types that must be ←
14:16:52 <JohnArwe> supported).
14:17:52 <ericP> JohnArwe: 5.1 has the usage and abstraction of the link header. says that link is an "entity header"
John Arwe: 5.1 has the usage and abstraction of the link header. says that link is an "entity header" ←
14:18:02 <sandro> "The Link entity-header field provides a means" ....
Sandro Hawke: "The Link entity-header field provides a means" .... ←
14:18:25 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish ←
14:18:40 <bblfish> It is semantically equivalent to the <LINK> element in HTML, as well as the atom:link feed-level element
Henry Story: It is semantically equivalent to the <LINK> element in HTML, as well as the atom:link feed-level element ←
14:18:40 <bblfish> in Atom [RFC4287]
Henry Story: in Atom [RFC4287] ←
14:18:41 <ericP> ... "entity-header" is a superclass of req and resp headers (if you trust the editors to have been accurate in that phrasing)
... "entity-header" is a superclass of req and resp headers (if you trust the editors to have been accurate in that phrasing) ←
14:19:19 <ericP> bblfish: you can add link to atom entries and you can post atom entries (but i suppose that doesn't say much)
Henry Story: you can add link to atom entries and you can post atom entries (but i suppose that doesn't say much) ←
14:19:20 <bblfish> Link: <> rel=type
Henry Story: Link: <> rel=type ←
14:19:32 <bblfish> <>
Henry Story: <> ←
14:19:43 <ericP> ... in a post, you might want to specify that the subject of the link header is the document that will be created
... in a post, you might want to specify that the subject of the link header is the document that will be created ←
14:20:18 <ericP> ... just as we said that <> in Turtle refers to the doc to be created
... just as we said that <> in Turtle refers to the doc to be created ←
14:20:23 <bblfish> Link: <Container>, rel=type
Henry Story: Link: <Container>, rel=type ←
14:20:59 <ericP> Arnaud: have we convinced ourselves that the link header is ok in POST reqs?
Arnaud Le Hors: have we convinced ourselves that the link header is ok in POST reqs? ←
14:21:34 <ericP> bblfish: it should also be available on PUT
Henry Story: it should also be available on PUT ←
14:21:48 <ericP> JohnArwe: yes, to cover the create case
John Arwe: yes, to cover the create case ←
14:22:23 <JohnArwe> 5988 section 5.2 defines the (default) context URI in terms of "the requested resource", so POSTs would need to include an explicit context URI. When create is the semantic, probably do need to define <> as the default context along with our interpretation of <>
John Arwe: 5988 section 5.2 defines the (default) context URI in terms of "the requested resource", so POSTs would need to include an explicit context URI. When create is the semantic, probably do need to define <> as the default context along with our interpretation of <> ←
14:23:12 <ericP> sergio: [satisfied]
Sergio Fernández: [satisfied] ←
14:23:18 <sergio> +1
Sergio Fernández: +1 ←
14:23:39 <ericP> JohnArwe: the default URI is defined in terms of the requested resource
John Arwe: the default URI is defined in terms of the requested resource ←
14:23:56 <bblfish> +1
Henry Story: +1 ←
14:24:02 <bblfish> who spoke?
Henry Story: who spoke? ←
14:24:06 <ericP> ... so on creates, we need a way to provide a URI that refers to the to-be-created resource, as we already did in the Turtle representaiton
... so on create, we need a way to provide a URI that refers to the to-be-created resource, as we already did in the Turtle representaiton ←
14:24:11 <bblfish> +1 to that
Henry Story: +1 to that ←
14:24:18 <ericP> s/on creates/on create/
14:24:20 <Arnaud> q?
Arnaud Le Hors: q? ←
14:24:49 <nmihindu> JohnArwe, but our Link headers will be absolute URIs. aren't they ? so the context does not matter that.
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: JohnArwe, but our Link headers will be absolute URIs. aren't they ? so the context does not matter that. ←
14:26:24 <JohnArwe> nandana, on the create input representation, what context URI do you think corresponds to the "to be created" resource? since the sender cannot know that until after receiving the create response, how does the creator supply a "valid" link header context uri?
John Arwe: nandana, on the create input representation, what context URI do you think corresponds to the "to be created" resource? since the sender cannot know that until after receiving the create response, how does the creator supply a "valid" link header context uri? ←
14:26:54 <ericP> bblfish: on PUT/create can you create LDPCs or just LDPRs
Henry Story: on PUT/create can you create LDPCs or just LDPRs ←
14:27:25 <ericP> JohnArwe: we don't require creation of LDPC, but if the server is willing...
John Arwe: we don't require creation of LDPC, but if the server is willing... ←
14:28:06 <ericP> Arnaud: if it's not a PUT/create, can you change the type of the resource?
Arnaud Le Hors: if it's not a PUT/create, can you change the type of the resource? ←
14:28:18 <ericP> sandro: you can *ask* to change the type of the resource
Sandro Hawke: you can *ask* to change the type of the resource ←
14:29:12 <ericP> ... i take the phrase "requested resource" to be lazy writing, means the request-URI
... i take the phrase "requested resource" to be lazy writing, means the request-URI ←
14:29:35 <sandro> (or thing denoted by the request-URI)
Sandro Hawke: (or thing denoted by the request-URI) ←
14:29:44 <bblfish> cool
Henry Story: cool ←
14:30:39 <nmihindu> JohnArwe, I was rather think about rel='type' Link headers. For those, the context URI is irrelevant, isn't it. I thought it matters when we use relative URI in the Link header. But may be I am missing something.
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: JohnArwe, I was rather think about rel='type' Link headers. For those, the context URI is irrelevant, isn't it. I thought it matters when we use relative URI in the Link header. But may be I am missing something. ←
14:31:00 <ericP> ACTION: John to compose mail saying what we need to add to the spec for context URI in the link header on PUT and POST
ACTION: John to compose mail saying what we need to add to the spec for context URI in the link header on PUT and POST ←
14:31:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-136 - Compose mail saying what we need to add to the spec for context uri in the link header on put and post [on John Arwe - due 2014-03-31].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-136 - Compose mail saying what we need to add to the spec for context uri in the link header on put and post [on John Arwe - due 2014-03-31]. ←
<ericP> Arnaud: ok, so we can put Sergio's question to rest, we are confirming that we can use the link header on a request
Arnaud Le Hors: ok, so we can put Sergio's question to rest, we are confirming that we can use the link header on a request ←
<ericP> ... we'll wait for John's input to see how we might clarify the spec
... we'll wait for John's input to see how we might clarify the spec ←
14:32:44 <ericP> SteveS: we should reply to sergio's request for clarity
Steve Speicher: we should reply to sergio's request for clarity ←
<ericP> Arnaud: will do
Arnaud Le Hors: will do ←
14:32:53 <ericP> subtopic: Multiple Named Graphs
14:33:40 <ericP> Arnaud: betehess pressured us to add text that resources are bound by some graph. met resistance in public-ldp-comments
Arnaud Le Hors: betehess pressured us to add text that resources are bound by some graph. met resistance in public-ldp-comments ←
14:34:04 <ericP> sandro: i don't understand what the commentor wants.
Sandro Hawke: i don't understand what the commentor wants. ←
14:34:26 <ericP> ... i don't think we need to respond before the commentor replies
... i don't think we need to respond before the commentor replies ←
14:34:50 <ericP> Arnaud: you seem unhappy with the named graphs text
Arnaud Le Hors: you seem unhappy with the named graphs text ←
14:35:08 <Zakim> -bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: -bblfish ←
14:35:14 <bblfish> damn
Henry Story: damn ←
14:35:35 <ericP> bblfish: i work with Reto who wants to put everything in one graph
Henry Story: i work with Reto who wants to put everything in one graph ←
14:35:37 <Arnaud> Reto Gmür
Arnaud Le Hors: Reto Gmür ←
14:35:59 <Zakim> +bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish ←
14:36:01 <JohnArwe> I think he's just reading what he sees as conflicting things: (1) you must use named graphs ... I'm not convinced we do say that (2) you must support turtle ...which has no support for named graphs
John Arwe: I think he's just reading what he sees as conflicting things: (1) you must use named graphs ... I'm not convinced we do say that (2) you must support turtle ...which has no support for named graphs ←
14:36:14 <Arnaud> q?
Arnaud Le Hors: q? ←
14:36:51 <ericP> ... i spoke about a debate where folks wanted to put the membership triples in the data in the same graph for a direct container
... i spoke about a debate where folks wanted to put the membership triples in the data in the same graph for a direct container ←
14:37:21 <ericP> ... even if all the data is in one big graph behind the server, the client can only get views of that graph
... even if all the data is in one big graph behind the server, the client can only get views of that graph ←
14:37:56 <ericP> SteveS: can he write some SPARQL to retract those triples.
Steve Speicher: can he write some SPARQL to retract those triples. ←
14:38:13 <ericP> ... if he wants to implement in one graph, that's up to him
... if he wants to implement in one graph, that's up to him ←
14:38:44 <JohnArwe> I just searched editor's draft, I think he's just reading "corresponds to" as MUST
John Arwe: I just searched editor's draft, I think he's just reading "corresponds to" as MUST ←
<ericP> Arnaud: ok, let's see how he responds to Sandro's email and we can continue this next week
Arnaud Le Hors: ok, let's see how he responds to Sandro's email and we can continue this next week ←
14:39:30 <ericP> topic: Paging spec
14:39:40 <sandro> issue-94?
14:39:40 <trackbot> issue-94 -- Stable vs lossy paging -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-94 -- Stable vs lossy paging -- open ←
14:39:40 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/94
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/94 ←
14:39:58 <Arnaud> last week's proposal: add Sandro's requirement that client MUST get every triple in intersect(g0, g1, ... gn) and MAY get any triples in the union (g0, g1, .. gn), where STgx represents the graph at different times while the client is traversing the pages
Arnaud Le Hors: last week's proposal: add Sandro's requirement that client MUST get every triple in intersect(g0, g1, ... gn) and MAY get any triples in the union (g0, g1, .. gn), where STgx represents the graph at different times while the client is traversing the pages ←
14:40:01 <sandro> (I'd call it "lossless" not "stable", myself. :-)
Sandro Hawke: (I'd call it "lossless" not "stable", myself. :-) ←
14:40:50 <sandro> Gn is the state of the paged graph at the time the client does paging request number n.
Sandro Hawke: Gn is the state of the paged graph at the time the client does paging request number n. ←
14:41:06 <ericP> Arnaud: this keeps one from accidentally skipping triples that were there the whole time
Arnaud Le Hors: this keeps one from accidentally skipping triples that were there the whole time ←
14:41:27 <ericP> ... strawpoll largely supportive but some folks said they needed to test
... strawpoll largely supportive but some folks said they needed to test ←
14:41:38 <TallTed> it's neither lossless (in my mind, lossy includes DELETEs as well as INSERTs) nor stable...
Ted Thibodeau: it's neither lossless (in my mind, lossy includes DELETEs as well as INSERTs) nor stable... ←
14:41:58 <JohnArwe> @nandana: "I was rather think about rel='type' Link headers. For those, the context URI is irrelevant, isn't it" Very Relevant. Using the RDF analogy, the context uri is the subject. Saying that we're relying on the 5988 default being correct is very different from saying its value is irrelevant.
John Arwe: @nandana: "I was rather think about rel='type' Link headers. For those, the context URI is irrelevant, isn't it" Very Relevant. Using the RDF analogy, the context uri is the subject. Saying that we're relying on the 5988 default being correct is very different from saying its value is irrelevant. ←
14:43:02 <ericP> ericP: so what happens when someone overfills a middle page in a container?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: so what happens when someone overfills a middle page in a container? ←
14:43:26 <ericP> sandro: cheap thing is to retire the URL for split pages, answering 410
Sandro Hawke: cheap thing is to retire the URL for split pages, answering 410 ←
14:44:22 <ericP> ... more helpful would be to @@2
... more helpful would be to @@2 ←
14:44:29 <JohnArwe> +1 to ted's pt
14:45:05 <ericP> ... my theory is that between those two choices, we don't have serious performance vulnerabilities
... my theory is that between those two choices, we don't have serious performance vulnerabilities ←
14:45:58 <ericP> sandro: will anyone make tangible steps on this before CR?
Sandro Hawke: will anyone make tangible steps on this before CR? ←
14:46:10 <ericP> SteveS: maybe the 2nd week of April
Steve Speicher: maybe the 2nd week of April ←
14:47:28 <TallTed> I cannot urge strongly enough that folks read up on DBMS cursors and transaction isolation... cursors cover paging; isolation covers the "how do other client interactions with this server impact my own interaction?"
Ted Thibodeau: I cannot urge strongly enough that folks read up on DBMS cursors and transaction isolation... cursors cover paging; isolation covers the "how do other client interactions with this server impact my own interaction?" ←
14:47:28 <TallTed> the "lowest level" of each of these is roughly what I think we're moving towards requiring, but we're using very different terminology to circle around to reinventing those DBMS features
Ted Thibodeau: the "lowest level" of each of these is roughly what I think we're moving towards requiring, but we're using very different terminology to circle around to reinventing those DBMS features ←
14:47:33 <Ashok> q+
Ashok Malhotra: q+ ←
14:47:49 <Arnaud> ack Ashok
Arnaud Le Hors: ack Ashok ←
14:48:10 <sandro> PROPOSAL: Change LDP paging to be "lossless", defined as: client who pages all the way through (forward or backward) MUST be sent every triple in intersect(g0, g1, ... gn) and MAY get any triples in the union (g0, g1, .. gn), where Gn is the paged graph at the time client makes request n
PROPOSED: Change LDP paging to be "lossless", defined as: client who pages all the way through (forward or backward) MUST be sent every triple in intersect(g0, g1, ... gn) and MAY get any triples in the union (g0, g1, .. gn), where Gn is the paged graph at the time client makes request n ←
14:48:50 <TallTed> -1 "lossless"
Ted Thibodeau: -1 "lossless" ←
14:48:58 <sandro> PROPOSAL: Change LDP paging to be "lossless", defined as: client who pages all the way through (forward or backward) MUST be sent every triple in intersect(g0, g1, ... gn) and MAY get any triples in the union (g0, g1, .. gn), where Gi is the paged graph at the time client makes request i
PROPOSED: Change LDP paging to be "lossless", defined as: client who pages all the way through (forward or backward) MUST be sent every triple in intersect(g0, g1, ... gn) and MAY get any triples in the union (g0, g1, .. gn), where Gi is the paged graph at the time client makes request i ←
14:49:20 <TallTed> q+
Ted Thibodeau: q+ ←
14:49:25 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:49:25 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted ←
14:49:53 <ericP> Ashok: could you spell this out in a couple pages: what if the page is full, what if you're past the page, etc.
Ashok Malhotra: could you spell this out in a couple pages: what if the page is full, what if you're past the page, etc. ←
14:49:56 <Arnaud> ack TallTed
Arnaud Le Hors: ack TallTed ←
14:50:29 <ericP> TallTed: this is reinventing scrollable cursors and transaction isolation and blurring them in a bad way
Ted Thibodeau: this is reinventing scrollable cursors and transaction isolation and blurring them in a bad way ←
14:50:36 <nmihindu> JohnArwe, thanks. I see the problem now and also why anchor parameter won't help because the URI of the created resource is not known. I wonder whether we can override the default for this case for the POST create in the LDP spec,
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: JohnArwe, thanks. I see the problem now and also why anchor parameter won't help because the URI of the created resource is not known. I wonder whether we can override the default for this case for the POST create in the LDP spec, ←
14:51:36 <sandro> PROPOSAL: Change LDP paging to be "lossless", defined as: client who pages all the way through (forward or backward) MUST be sent every triple in intersect(g0, g1, ... gn) and MAY get any triples in the union (g0, g1, .. gn), where Gi is the paged graph at the time client makes request i. Servers MAY refuse to serve any page because they'd want to implement lossless paging in certain cases; if they do so, they MUST use a 410 GONE.
PROPOSED: Change LDP paging to be "lossless", defined as: client who pages all the way through (forward or backward) MUST be sent every triple in intersect(g0, g1, ... gn) and MAY get any triples in the union (g0, g1, .. gn), where Gi is the paged graph at the time client makes request i. Servers MAY refuse to serve any page because they'd want to implement lossless paging in certain cases; if they do so, they MUST use a 410 GONE. ←
14:51:45 <ericP> ... we should roughly re-word scrollable cursors and transaction isolation in our world
... we should roughly re-word scrollable cursors and transaction isolation in our world ←
14:51:50 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
14:52:05 <ericP> ... by munging them together we set ourselves back a lot
... by munging them together we set ourselves back a lot ←
14:52:26 <ericP> Ashok: would it help to have an email which spelled out how SQL handles this?
Ashok Malhotra: would it help to have an email which spelled out how SQL handles this? ←
14:53:04 <ericP> Arnaud: sandro, please put your proposal in email. TallTed, please respond with your proposal.
Arnaud Le Hors: sandro, please put your proposal in email. TallTed, please respond with your proposal. ←
14:53:49 <ericP> ... Ashok, once it's in writing, you can look at it with a SQL eye.
... Ashok, once it's in writing, you can look at it with a SQL eye. ←
14:53:51 <sergio> q+
Sergio Fernández: q+ ←
14:53:57 <ericP> topic: Test suite
14:54:02 <ericP> Arnaud: As we get closer to CR we need to get serious about the test suite
Arnaud Le Hors: As we get closer to CR we need to get serious about the test suite ←
14:54:20 <SteveS> Note, we gathered information in the past http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Testing
Steve Speicher: Note, we gathered information in the past http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Testing ←
14:54:21 <ericP> Arnaud: Sergio joined the call today [to talk about the test suite]
Arnaud Le Hors: Sergio joined the call today [to talk about the test suite] ←
14:55:09 <Zakim> -bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: -bblfish ←
14:55:11 <nmihindu> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/b3683634c29f/Test%20Cases/LDP%20Test%20Cases.html
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/b3683634c29f/Test%20Cases/LDP%20Test%20Cases.html ←
14:55:23 <ericP> ... we have a testing page, a high-level description by Raúl, test suite by ericP
... we have a testing page, a high-level description by Raúl, test suite by ericP ←
14:55:41 <nmihindu> I would ping and ask him to reply in email
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: I would ping and ask him to reply in email ←
14:55:59 <ericP> ... nmihindu, can we get Raúl's attention again or should we re-assign?
... nmihindu, can we get Raúl's attention again or should we re-assign? ←
14:56:11 <Arnaud> ack sergio
Arnaud Le Hors: ack sergio ←
14:56:34 <ericP> sergio: it would be a cool to have a measure of where we are going
Sergio Fernández: it would be a cool to have a measure of where we are going ←
14:56:56 <ericP> ... something like what sandro did, something with SPARQL or whatever
... something like what sandro did, something with SPARQL or whatever ←
14:57:19 <ericP> Arnaud: we have domain-specific servers which won't support vanilla tests
Arnaud Le Hors: we have domain-specific servers which won't support vanilla tests ←
14:57:23 <JohnArwe> @sandro: the impln I was most worried about says they're already meeting the kind of guarantee you're proposing. the impln currently would actually provide something a tad stronger, but that tad is not really part of the i/f so it's not a "guar" technically
John Arwe: @sandro: the impln I was most worried about says they're already meeting the kind of guarantee you're proposing. the impln currently would actually provide something a tad stronger, but that tad is not really part of the i/f so it's not a "guar" technically ←
14:57:34 <ericP> ... but we can still develop vanilla tests.
... but we can still develop vanilla tests. ←
14:57:41 <Zakim> +bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish ←
14:58:20 <ericP> ... and folks may adapt the vanilla tests to domain-specific server tests
... and folks may adapt the vanilla tests to domain-specific server tests ←
14:58:33 <Arnaud> q?
Arnaud Le Hors: q? ←
14:58:49 <ericP> sergio: once we define the test cases, the tests will be pretty easy
Sergio Fernández: once we define the test cases, the tests will be pretty easy ←
14:58:54 <SteveS> q+
Steve Speicher: q+ ←
14:59:34 <Arnaud> ack Steves
Arnaud Le Hors: ack Steves ←
14:59:45 <ericP> Arnaud: ericP, you have a test suite
Arnaud Le Hors: ericP, you have a test suite ←
14:59:58 <ericP> ericP: mine was quite vanilla
Eric Prud'hommeaux: mine was quite vanilla ←
15:00:37 <ericP> SteveS: should we have a task force of folks who will handle testing?
Steve Speicher: should we have a task force of folks who will handle testing? ←
15:00:48 <sandro> +1 I want to be involved
Sandro Hawke: +1 I want to be involved ←
15:00:52 <ericP> Arnaud: volunteers?
Arnaud Le Hors: volunteers? ←
15:01:01 <sergio> +1, I can help
Sergio Fernández: +1, I can help ←
15:01:08 <SteveS> +1 I will be involved (or have someone indirectly working with me)
Steve Speicher: +1 I will be involved (or have someone indirectly working with me) ←
<ericP> Arnaud: ok, so the people interested should have a discussion on how to proceed
Arnaud Le Hors: ok, so the people interested should have a discussion on how to proceed ←
15:02:46 <bblfish> q+
Henry Story: q+ ←
15:03:06 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish ←
15:03:46 <Zakim> -Roger
Zakim IRC Bot: -Roger ←
15:04:13 <SteveS> roger, nmihindu ... did you have any primer update?
Steve Speicher: roger, nmihindu ... did you have any primer update? ←
15:05:52 <Zakim> -JohnArwe
Zakim IRC Bot: -JohnArwe ←
15:06:23 <ericP> -> http://github.com/ericprud/SWObjects/blob/sparql11/tests/test_LDP.cpp ericP's (now ancient) generic LDP client/server tests
-> http://github.com/ericprud/SWObjects/blob/sparql11/tests/test_LDP.cpp ericP's (now ancient) generic LDP client/server tests ←
15:06:27 <SteveS> great, the primer is very valuable...looking forward to updates
Steve Speicher: great, the primer is very valuable...looking forward to updates ←
15:06:28 <nmihindu> SteveS, we are working on the primer offline at the moment and we will do the updates on the repo soon.
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: SteveS, we are working on the primer offline at the moment and we will do the updates on the repo soon. ←
15:06:54 <JohnArwe> sorry realized another mtg I need to be on had started
John Arwe: sorry realized another mtg I need to be on had started ←
15:08:04 <sergio> -> http://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=marmotta.git;a=blob;f=platform/marmotta-ldp/src/test/java/org/apache/marmotta/platform/ldp/webservices/LdpWebServiceTest.java;h=f1109467ffae40cea95d92db926bee70f8650ae8;hb=ldp current marmotta ldp tests
Sergio Fernández: -> http://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=marmotta.git;a=blob;f=platform/marmotta-ldp/src/test/java/org/apache/marmotta/platform/ldp/webservices/LdpWebServiceTest.java;h=f1109467ffae40cea95d92db926bee70f8650ae8;hb=ldp current marmotta ldp tests ←
15:08:14 <Zakim> -bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: -bblfish ←
15:08:17 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ashok_Malhotra ←
15:08:18 <Zakim> -nmihindu
Zakim IRC Bot: -nmihindu ←
15:08:18 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
15:08:19 <Zakim> -sergio
Zakim IRC Bot: -sergio ←
15:08:19 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
15:08:20 <Zakim> -TallTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed ←
15:08:20 <Zakim> -SteveS
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveS ←
15:08:22 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
15:08:23 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended ←
15:08:23 <Zakim> Attendees were Sandro, Roger, Arnaud, SteveS, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed, JohnArwe, sergio, ericP, bblfish, nmihindu
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Sandro, Roger, Arnaud, SteveS, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed, JohnArwe, sergio, ericP, bblfish, nmihindu ←
Formatted by CommonScribe