12:58:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/30-dwbp-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/30-dwbp-irc ←
12:58:48 <PhilA_> zakim, this will be dwbp
Phil Archer: zakim, this will be dwbp ←
12:58:48 <Zakim> ok, PhilA_; I see DATA_DWBP()9:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, PhilA_; I see DATA_DWBP()9:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes ←
12:59:21 <Zakim> DATA_DWBP()9:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: DATA_DWBP()9:00AM has now started ←
12:59:25 <PhilA_> PhilA_ has changed the topic to: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20140530
Phil Archer: PhilA_ has changed the topic to: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20140530 ←
12:59:27 <Zakim> +sumit
Zakim IRC Bot: +sumit ←
12:59:35 <PhilA_> Meeting: DWBP Weekly
12:59:46 <PhilA_> Chair: Hadley
12:59:50 <PhilA_> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20140530
13:00:13 <Zakim> +??P19
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P19 ←
13:00:14 <Zakim> +Yaso
Zakim IRC Bot: +Yaso ←
13:00:20 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??p19 is me
Bart van Leeuwen: Zakim, ??p19 is me ←
13:00:20 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +BartvanLeeuwen; got it ←
13:00:26 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
13:00:28 <PhilA> zakim, ipcaller is me
Phil Archer: zakim, ipcaller is me ←
13:00:28 <Zakim> +PhilA; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +PhilA; got it ←
13:00:30 <newton> Hi there
Newton Calegari: Hi there ←
13:00:42 <Sumit> Hello everyone. This is SumitPurohit
Sumit Purohit: Hello everyone. This is SumitPurohit ←
13:01:00 <Ig_Bittencourt> Hi Sumit.
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: Hi Sumit. ←
13:01:05 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
13:01:19 <deirdrelee> zakim, ipcalleris me
Deirdre Lee: zakim, ipcalleris me ←
13:01:19 <Zakim> I don't understand 'ipcalleris me', deirdrelee
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'ipcalleris me', deirdrelee ←
13:01:21 <Ig_Bittencourt> Hi everyone. I am trying to connect on the call but still have problems.
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: Hi everyone. I am trying to connect on the call but still have problems. ←
13:01:24 <deirdrelee> zakim, ipcaller is me
Deirdre Lee: zakim, ipcaller is me ←
13:01:24 <Zakim> +deirdrelee; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +deirdrelee; got it ←
13:02:02 <Zakim> +EricKauz
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricKauz ←
13:02:24 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
13:02:29 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, IPcaller is me
Joao Almeida: Zakim, IPcaller is me ←
13:02:29 <Zakim> +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it ←
13:02:33 <yaso> Zakim, yaso has newton
Yaso Córdova: Zakim, yaso has newton ←
13:02:33 <Zakim> +newton; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +newton; got it ←
13:02:34 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
13:02:43 <antoine> zakim, IPcaller is me
Antoine Isaac: zakim, IPcaller is me ←
13:02:43 <Zakim> +antoine; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +antoine; got it ←
13:04:59 <Zakim> +HadleyBeeman
Zakim IRC Bot: +HadleyBeeman ←
13:05:14 <Zakim> +adler1
Zakim IRC Bot: +adler1 ←
13:05:46 <newton> Zakim, yaso has flavio
Newton Calegari: Zakim, yaso has flavio ←
13:05:46 <Zakim> +flavio; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +flavio; got it ←
13:06:04 <Zakim> + +44.122.374.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.122.374.aaaa ←
13:06:18 <markharrison> zakim, aaaa is markharrison
Mark Harrison: zakim, aaaa is markharrison ←
13:06:18 <Zakim> +markharrison; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +markharrison; got it ←
13:07:08 <HadleyBeeman> zakim, who is here?
Hadley Beeman: zakim, who is here? ←
13:07:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see sumit, Yaso, BartvanLeeuwen, PhilA, deirdrelee, EricKauz, JoaoPauloAlmeida, antoine, HadleyBeeman, adler1, markharrison
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see sumit, Yaso, BartvanLeeuwen, PhilA, deirdrelee, EricKauz, JoaoPauloAlmeida, antoine, HadleyBeeman, adler1, markharrison ←
13:07:10 <Zakim> Yaso has flavio
Zakim IRC Bot: Yaso has flavio ←
13:07:10 <Zakim> On IRC I see flavio, adler1, markharrison, HadleyBeeman, yaso, antoine, gatemezi, EricKauz, newton, deirdrelee, RRSAgent, Zakim, PhilA, Sumit, JoaoPauloAlmeida,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see flavio, adler1, markharrison, HadleyBeeman, yaso, antoine, gatemezi, EricKauz, newton, deirdrelee, RRSAgent, Zakim, PhilA, Sumit, JoaoPauloAlmeida, ←
13:07:10 <Zakim> ... BartvanLeeuwen, Ig_Bittencourt, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: ... BartvanLeeuwen, Ig_Bittencourt, trackbot ←
13:07:15 <PhilA> scribe: PhilA
(Scribe set to Phil Archer)
13:07:21 <PhilA> scribeNick: PhilA
13:07:22 <Zakim> -JoaoPauloAlmeida
Zakim IRC Bot: -JoaoPauloAlmeida ←
13:07:27 <HadleyBeeman> http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2014-05-23
Hadley Beeman: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2014-05-23 ←
13:08:05 <PhilA> PROPOSAL: Accept last week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2014/05/23-dwbp-minutes.html
PROPOSED: Accept last week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2014/05/23-dwbp-minutes.html ←
13:08:05 <JoaoPauloAlmeida_> Strangely I got kicked out of the call
Joao Almeida: Strangely I got kicked out of the call ←
13:08:13 <JoaoPauloAlmeida_> and of the IRC
Joao Almeida: and of the IRC ←
13:08:36 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
13:08:41 <JoaoPauloAlmeida_> Zakim, IPcaller is me
Joao Almeida: Zakim, IPcaller is me ←
13:08:41 <Zakim> +JoaoPauloAlmeida_; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +JoaoPauloAlmeida_; got it ←
13:09:07 <HadleyBeeman> +1
Hadley Beeman: +1 ←
13:09:07 <adler1> +1
Steven Adler: +1 ←
13:09:08 <deirdrelee> +1
Deirdre Lee: +1 ←
13:09:10 <antoine> +1
Antoine Isaac: +1 ←
13:09:11 <yaso> +
Yaso Córdova: + ←
13:09:11 <newton> +1
Newton Calegari: +1 ←
13:09:13 <Sumit> +1
Sumit Purohit: +1 ←
13:09:14 <yaso> +1
Yaso Córdova: +1 ←
13:09:24 <PhilA> RESOLVED: Accept last week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2014/05/23-dwbp-minutes.html
RESOLVED: Accept last week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2014/05/23-dwbp-minutes.html ←
13:09:27 <markharrison> +1
Mark Harrison: +1 ←
13:09:44 <PhilA> Topic: Use Cases and Requirements doc
13:09:54 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: We've had some comments on the list. What's new deirdrelee?
Hadley Beeman: We've had some comments on the list. What's new deirdrelee? ←
13:10:09 <PhilA> deirdrelee: See http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/usecasesv1.html
Deirdre Lee: See http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/usecasesv1.html ←
13:10:33 <PhilA> ... Bernadette added the abstract, we've cleaned up some of the use cases and general challenges. We're working our way through
... Bernadette added the abstract, we've cleaned up some of the use cases and general challenges. We're working our way through ←
13:10:55 <PhilA> ... if you feel it's OK now for FPWD then OK but we can carry on fine tuning
... if you feel it's OK now for FPWD then OK but we can carry on fine tuning ←
13:11:17 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Personally I think it's OK for you to carry on incorporating feedback. FPWD doesn't mean it's finished
Hadley Beeman: Personally I think it's OK for you to carry on incorporating feedback. FPWD doesn't mean it's finished ←
13:11:35 <PhilA> ... I think we've agreed in our discussion that we'll come back to the doc
... I think we've agreed in our discussion that we'll come back to the doc ←
13:11:45 <PhilA> ... we agree it's not done but that's OK
... we agree it's not done but that's OK ←
13:12:04 <PhilA> ... trying not to steer people to a conclusion
... trying not to steer people to a conclusion ←
13:12:17 <PhilA> Steve: I think the doc is good enough to be published now
Steven Adler: I think the doc is good enough to be published now ←
13:13:03 <PhilA> Steve: And I'm also really proud that we've achieved this. We've collected a lot of material in a short time. We started late and got organised late and some good people put it together very well
Steven Adler: And I'm also really proud that we've achieved this. We've collected a lot of material in a short time. We started late and got organised late and some good people put it together very well ←
13:13:06 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: +1
Hadley Beeman: +1 ←
13:13:20 <markharrison> +1 to steve's remark
Mark Harrison: +1 to steve's remark ←
13:13:31 <gatemezi> +1 to steve's remark as well
Ghislain Atemezing: +1 to steve's remark as well ←
13:13:38 <MakxDekkers> +1
Makx Dekkers: +1 ←
13:13:43 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: I was starting to hear last week that as we have so many people working on so many things, we're not joining up as much as we should
Hadley Beeman: I was starting to hear last week that as we have so many people working on so many things, we're not joining up as much as we should ←
13:13:54 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Some of the work they've done need to be fed in
Hadley Beeman: Some of the work they've done need to be fed in ←
13:13:59 <Zakim> +Makx_Dekkers
Zakim IRC Bot: +Makx_Dekkers ←
13:14:23 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> I would hope that Antoine's suggestion of disclaimer is a good one.
Joao Almeida: I would hope that Antoine's suggestion of disclaimer is a good one. ←
13:14:43 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+
Bart van Leeuwen: q+ ←
13:15:04 <PhilA> adler1: The first draft is good enough to be published. The tendency is now to move on to the other docs and leave it behind. How can we ensure that we go back to it and update it, perhaps annotating it.
Steven Adler: The first draft is good enough to be published. The tendency is now to move on to the other docs and leave it behind. How can we ensure that we go back to it and update it, perhaps annotating it. ←
13:15:09 <deirdrelee> q+
Deirdre Lee: q+ ←
13:15:13 <PhilA> ack BartvanLeeuwen
ack BartvanLeeuwen ←
13:15:15 <HadleyBeeman> ack bart
Hadley Beeman: ack bart ←
13:15:16 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> What I meant is that the disclaimer he suggests should be added before publication. It is an important one.
Joao Almeida: What I meant is that the disclaimer he suggests should be added before publication. It is an important one. ←
13:15:46 <Caroline> Zakim, caroline has Caroline
Caroline Burle: Zakim, caroline has Caroline ←
13:15:46 <Zakim> sorry, Caroline, I do not recognize a party named 'caroline'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Caroline, I do not recognize a party named 'caroline' ←
13:16:07 <PhilA> BartvanLeeuwen: This week Antoine and I met to talk about the Q&G vocab. We were surprised by the time line. We'd like the UCR doc to bed in a little longer rather than run the two and then wonder why they don't match
Bart van Leeuwen: This week Antoine and I met to talk about the Q&G vocab. We were surprised by the time line. We'd like the UCR doc to bed in a little longer rather than run the two and then wonder why they don't match ←
13:16:08 <newton> Zakim, yaso has Caroline
Newton Calegari: Zakim, yaso has Caroline ←
13:16:08 <Zakim> +Caroline; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Caroline; got it ←
13:16:09 <yaso> Zakim, Yaso has Caroline
Yaso Córdova: Zakim, Yaso has Caroline ←
13:16:10 <Zakim> Caroline was already listed in Yaso, yaso
Zakim IRC Bot: Caroline was already listed in Yaso, yaso ←
13:16:11 <PhilA> ack deirdrelee
ack deirdrelee ←
13:16:22 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Further, Antoine has done a good diagnosis of the level of generality of the requirements and the need to refine for more specific requirements.
Joao Almeida: Further, Antoine has done a good diagnosis of the level of generality of the requirements and the need to refine for more specific requirements. ←
13:17:03 <PhilA> deirdrelee: I think we're seeing some of that already. We're going back and making changes, adding use cases etc. It is evolving and we'd like it to continue
Deirdre Lee: I think we're seeing some of that already. We're going back and making changes, adding use cases etc. It is evolving and we'd like it to continue ←
13:17:21 <PhilA> ... but wrt Bart, it would be good to get more feedback from the vocab editors and the BP sections
... but wrt Bart, it would be good to get more feedback from the vocab editors and the BP sections ←
13:17:32 <PhilA> ... is the UCR as it is sufficient? If not, what's missing?
... is the UCR as it is sufficient? If not, what's missing? ←
13:17:39 <PhilA> ... is it too vague/ Is it too general?
... is it too vague/ Is it too general? ←
13:18:00 <PhilA> deirdrelee: I agree with BartvanLeeuwen that the UCR should inform the other work
Deirdre Lee: I agree with BartvanLeeuwen that the UCR should inform the other work ←
13:18:26 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: I think that we need to continue to nurture the UCR to make it useful and to keep it useful
Hadley Beeman: I think that we need to continue to nurture the UCR to make it useful and to keep it useful ←
13:19:30 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: I don't want everything to wait as there is an interdependence. We could spend 6 - 9 months on UCR and still think there are gaps
Hadley Beeman: I don't want everything to wait as there is an interdependence. We could spend 6 - 9 months on UCR and still think there are gaps ←
13:20:04 <PhilA> BartvanLeeuwen: One of the things that I notice... I wonder if some are not so much use cases as show cases. Are some of these more like 'this is what's being done'
Bart van Leeuwen: One of the things that I notice... I wonder if some are not so much use cases as show cases. Are some of these more like 'this is what's being done' ←
13:20:44 <PhilA> ... so if we want to create another vocab to do ??? we could then match it with the show cases?? (Not sure I got that right, Bart, sorry
... so if we want to create another vocab to do ??? we could then match it with the show cases?? (Not sure I got that right, Bart, sorry ←
13:21:03 <PhilA> ... basically we could start from the show cases and work back to the vocabulary
... basically we could start from the show cases and work back to the vocabulary ←
13:21:21 <deirdrelee> q+
Deirdre Lee: q+ ←
13:21:42 <adler1> Bart I thought we were reading the use cases to learn requirements
Steven Adler: Bart I thought we were reading the use cases to learn requirements ←
13:21:52 <adler1> that's why we collected them
Steven Adler: that's why we collected them ←
13:22:07 <PhilA> BartvanLeeuwen: We're going to create a vocab because we think we need to cover quality and granularity. OK, but we should look at the UCR first
Bart van Leeuwen: We're going to create a vocab because we think we need to cover quality and granularity. OK, but we should look at the UCR first ←
13:22:13 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Yes, that is what we're doing
Hadley Beeman: Yes, that is what we're doing ←
13:22:26 <Zakim> -JoaoPauloAlmeida_
Zakim IRC Bot: -JoaoPauloAlmeida_ ←
13:22:29 <PhilA> ... but we need to work on the vocabs and the BPs and make progress
... but we need to work on the vocabs and the BPs and make progress ←
13:22:51 <PhilA> ... but do you think you're being pushed in a different direction?
... but do you think you're being pushed in a different direction? ←
13:23:00 <PhilA> -> http://www.w3.org/2013/05/odbp-charter charter
-> http://www.w3.org/2013/05/odbp-charter charter ←
13:23:01 <antoine> January 2015 is final delivery of vocs
Antoine Isaac: January 2015 is final delivery of vocs ←
13:23:04 <adler1> But what Bart raises is another opportunity to reflect on the Use Cases Draft on a regular basis to validate what we create is based on documented requirements
Steven Adler: But what Bart raises is another opportunity to reflect on the Use Cases Draft on a regular basis to validate what we create is based on documented requirements ←
13:23:09 <PhilA> q+
q+ ←
13:23:32 <PhilA> q-
q- ←
13:23:48 <yaso> Zakim, yaso has nathalia
Yaso Córdova: Zakim, yaso has nathalia ←
13:23:48 <Zakim> +nathalia; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +nathalia; got it ←
13:23:49 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
13:23:49 <PhilA> PhilA: There is no timeline for the UCR, it's not in the charter
Phil Archer: There is no timeline for the UCR, it's not in the charter ←
13:23:53 <PhilA> ack deirdrelee
ack deirdrelee ←
13:23:53 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, IPcaller is me
Joao Almeida: Zakim, IPcaller is me ←
13:23:54 <Zakim> +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it ←
13:24:09 <PhilA> deirdrelee: There a requirements in the UCR already for the Q&GV
Deirdre Lee: There a requirements in the UCR already for the Q&GV ←
13:24:11 <Zakim> -JoaoPauloAlmeida
Zakim IRC Bot: -JoaoPauloAlmeida ←
13:24:21 <PhilA> ... is that enough for your vocab or do you need more detail, Bart?
... is that enough for your vocab or do you need more detail, Bart? ←
13:24:26 <PhilA> BartvanLeeuwen: It's good enough for a start
Bart van Leeuwen: It's good enough for a start ←
13:24:31 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
13:24:40 <antoine> q+
Antoine Isaac: q+ ←
13:24:58 <PhilA> deirdrelee: So in terms of timing, the current version of the UCR is feeding into the vocab at the start of the work, it's just the official timing you're worried about
Deirdre Lee: So in terms of timing, the current version of the UCR is feeding into the vocab at the start of the work, it's just the official timing you're worried about ←
13:24:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
13:25:00 <PhilA> BartvanLeeuwen: Yes
Bart van Leeuwen: Yes ←
13:25:03 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, IPcaller is me
Joao Almeida: Zakim, IPcaller is me ←
13:25:03 <Zakim> +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it ←
13:25:08 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: I think we can adjust the official timing
Hadley Beeman: I think we can adjust the official timing ←
13:25:16 <PhilA> ... don't feel too contrained by it
... don't feel too constrained by it ←
13:25:22 <PhilA> q+ to make comments on timing
q+ to make comments on timing ←
13:25:35 <PhilA> ack me
ack me ←
13:25:35 <Zakim> PhilA, you wanted to make comments on timing
Zakim IRC Bot: PhilA, you wanted to make comments on timing ←
13:25:41 <markharrison> s/contrained/constrained/
13:25:59 <HadleyBeeman> PhilA: The only hard deadline at the moment is the end of the working group, July 2016. That's two years and a month from now.
Phil Archer: The only hard deadline at the moment is the end of the working group, July 2016. That's two years and a month from now. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←
13:26:38 <HadleyBeeman> … But: we put the vocab work to finish earlier than that, because I think the vocabs are relatively easy (compared to best practice). At charter-writing time, we expected them to be working group notes (not recommendations).
Hadley Beeman: … But: we put the vocab work to finish earlier than that, because I think the vocabs are relatively easy (compared to best practice). At charter-writing time, we expected them to be working group notes (not recommendations). ←
13:27:21 <HadleyBeeman> … The last six months (first half of 2106), I think we'll be gathering implementation reports for the Best Practices. Which will be a challenge; we'll need lots of evidence that other people are using our recommendations.
Hadley Beeman: … The last six months (first half of 2106), I think we'll be gathering implementation reports for the Best Practices. Which will be a challenge; we'll need lots of evidence that other people are using our recommendations. ←
13:27:49 <nathalia> deirdrelee: do you see mu e-mail about the use case #20?
Deirdre Lee: do you see my e-mail about the use case #20? [ Scribe Assist by Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício ] ←
13:27:55 <HadleyBeeman> … Between now and that, we do have some flexibility in timing. If we decide to put these two vocabularies to Recommendation (instead of working goup note), that will take longer.
Hadley Beeman: … Between now and that, we do have some flexibility in timing. If we decide to put these two vocabularies to Recommendation (instead of working goup note), that will take longer. ←
13:28:07 <gatemezi> s/mu/my
13:28:18 <HadleyBeeman> … Otherwise, we need to have the vocabs done by Christmas 2015
Hadley Beeman: … Otherwise, we need to have the vocabs done by Christmas 2015 ←
13:28:22 <adler1> +1 PhilA
Steven Adler: +1 PhilA ←
13:28:25 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: How does that sound to you BartvanLeeuwen?
Hadley Beeman: How does that sound to you BartvanLeeuwen? ←
13:28:29 <PhilA> BartvanLeeuwen: OK, yes
Bart van Leeuwen: OK, yes ←
13:28:31 <HadleyBeeman> ack antoine
Hadley Beeman: ack antoine ←
13:28:31 <PhilA> ack antoine
ack antoine ←
13:28:40 <newton> Zakim, yaso has vagner
Newton Calegari: Zakim, yaso has vagner ←
13:28:41 <Zakim> +vagner; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +vagner; got it ←
13:29:08 <PhilA> antoine: To pick up on deirdrelee's point. On the Q&G vocab, there's still a lot of work to do to gather the requirements
Antoine Isaac: To pick up on deirdrelee's point. On the Q&G vocab, there's still a lot of work to do to gather the requirements ←
13:29:33 <PhilA> .. the existing 4 requirements read more like design pricniples. The real requirements would be on metrics and opinions and they're a bit general
.. the existing 4 requirements read more like design principles. The real requirements would be on metrics and opinions and they're a bit general ←
13:29:49 <PhilA> ... I think we can do a lot from that but it requires more digging on our side
... I think we can do a lot from that but it requires more digging on our side ←
13:30:09 <antoine> q+
Antoine Isaac: q+ ←
13:30:30 <gatemezi> s/pricniples/principles
13:30:38 <PhilA> deirdrelee: I agree antoine. They are quite vague and general. We have about 30 reqs that are all on that level. If we go into detail we may end up with over 100 reqs and maybe the vocab editors could work more closely with us
Deirdre Lee: I agree antoine. They are quite vague and general. We have about 30 reqs that are all on that level. If we go into detail we may end up with over 100 reqs and maybe the vocab editors could work more closely with us ←
13:31:06 <PhilA> ... maybe you and Bart can think in terms of the Q&G, others can think about their areas and so we improve the UCR as we go
... maybe you and Bart can think in terms of the Q&G, others can think about their areas and so we improve the UCR as we go ←
13:31:15 <HadleyBeeman> ack anto
Hadley Beeman: ack anto ←
13:31:19 <PhilA> antoine: I agree
Antoine Isaac: I agree ←
13:31:53 <PhilA> antoine: The scope of the UCR doc is very wide. If we cover everything in details it's going to be too much for anyone to read
Antoine Isaac: The scope of the UCR doc is very wide. If we cover everything in details it's going to be too much for anyone to read ←
13:32:08 <PhilA> ... maybe the detailed requirements shouldn't be in the UCR
... maybe the detailed requirements shouldn't be in the UCR ←
13:32:32 <PhilA> ... I think the current granularity of the UCR is OK I think. My worry is to make sure that everyone knows what's involved here
... I think the current granularity of the UCR is OK I think. My worry is to make sure that everyone knows what's involved here ←
13:32:54 <PhilA> deirdrelee: Yep. We need to think about how we marry those levels of granularity
Deirdre Lee: Yep. We need to think about how we marry those levels of granularity ←
13:33:28 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: If I understand you correctly, it sounds like the Q&G group should spend more time on your own or with deirdrelee and Bernadette to see what needs to be added or changed to carry on.
Hadley Beeman: If I understand you correctly, it sounds like the Q&G group should spend more time on your own or with deirdrelee and Bernadette to see what needs to be added or changed to carry on. ←
13:33:53 <PhilA> deirdrelee: Maybe it goes back to Steve's original point about continuous updating of the UCR
Deirdre Lee: Maybe it goes back to Steve's original point about continuous updating of the UCR ←
13:33:56 <PhilA> q+
q+ ←
13:34:00 <antoine> +1
Antoine Isaac: +1 ←
13:34:03 <HadleyBeeman> ack phil
Hadley Beeman: ack phil ←
13:34:30 <HadleyBeeman> Phila: The vocab documents will both begin with an intro, refer to other works, motivations.
Phil Archer: The vocab documents will both begin with an intro, refer to other works, motivations. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←
13:34:48 <HadleyBeeman> … There's a fuzzy line as to whether that's UCR document or just introducing the vocab, explaining why it is the way it is.
Hadley Beeman: … There's a fuzzy line as to whether that's UCR document or just introducing the vocab, explaining why it is the way it is. ←
13:35:13 <HadleyBeeman> … Some of that belongs in the vocab itself. In the extreme case, you could write another document saying 'this is the motivation for the vocabulary.' If that would serve a purpose.
Hadley Beeman: … Some of that belongs in the vocab itself. In the extreme case, you could write another document saying 'this is the motivation for the vocabulary.' If that would serve a purpose. ←
13:35:24 <antoine> I think that's alright too
Antoine Isaac: I think that's alright too ←
13:35:55 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: If I understand the discussion correctly, it's about the thinking, not so much where anything gets written down
Hadley Beeman: If I understand the discussion correctly, it's about the thinking, not so much where anything gets written down ←
13:36:01 <antoine> yes
Antoine Isaac: yes ←
13:36:05 <PhilA> BartvanLeeuwen: Sounds good to me
Bart van Leeuwen: Sounds good to me ←
13:36:10 <antoine> q+
Antoine Isaac: q+ ←
13:36:14 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Any more comments on the UCR at this time?
Hadley Beeman: Any more comments on the UCR at this time? ←
13:36:20 <HadleyBeeman> ack antoine
Hadley Beeman: ack antoine ←
13:36:58 <PhilA> antoine: For the editors... we made some comments. I think I'm OK with publishing the doc as such, but I also think it's fair to ask the editors if they want a little time to make changes they already know they want to make
Antoine Isaac: For the editors... we made some comments. I think I'm OK with publishing the doc as such, but I also think it's fair to ask the editors if they want a little time to make changes they already know they want to make ←
13:37:17 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> I found the disclaimers that Antoine suggested in the e-mail should be added before publication (even if with FPWD status)
Joao Almeida: I found the disclaimers that Antoine suggested in the e-mail should be added before publication (even if with FPWD status) ←
13:37:25 <nathalia_> Zakim, yaso has nathalia_
Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: Zakim, yaso has nathalia_ ←
13:37:25 <Zakim> +nathalia_; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +nathalia_; got it ←
13:37:29 <gatemezi> Maybe one way to marry the vocabs and the UCR doc is to come out with set of Competency Questions (CQs) that will help in the design of the vocabs..
Ghislain Atemezing: Maybe one way to marry the vocabs and the UCR doc is to come out with set of Competency Questions (CQs) that will help in the design of the vocabs.. ←
13:37:43 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: We can push the vote to next week. We can vote to publish with the changes already on the list or we can publish as it is and say it's a live doc
Hadley Beeman: We can push the vote to next week. We can vote to publish with the changes already on the list or we can publish as it is and say it's a live doc ←
13:37:49 <PhilA> deirdrelee: I like optiosn 1 or 2
Deirdre Lee: I like options 1 or 2 ←
13:38:03 <PhilA> s/optiosn/options/
13:38:12 <yaso> +1 to JoaoPaulo
Yaso Córdova: +1 to JoaoPaulo ←
13:38:16 <PhilA> deirdrelee: I guess it's easier to delay the vote to next week
Deirdre Lee: I guess it's easier to delay the vote to next week ←
13:38:34 <antoine> q+
Antoine Isaac: q+ ←
13:38:39 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: My instinct is to vote today to publish with the changes in the list.
Hadley Beeman: My instinct is to vote today to publish with the changes in the list. ←
13:39:00 <PhilA> ... if this were not a FPWD and not so fluid, then OK, we'd need to agree with every word
... if this were not a FPWD and not so fluid, then OK, we'd need to agree with every word ←
13:39:14 <PhilA> deirdrelee: Yeah... there are no major changes
Deirdre Lee: Yeah... there are no major changes ←
13:39:23 <PhilA> ... the CSVW WG is in a similar position I believe
... the CSVW WG is in a similar position I believe ←
13:39:29 <PhilA> Ack antoine
Ack antoine ←
13:39:44 <PhilA> antoine: Can we vote to leave it to the discretion of the editors?
Antoine Isaac: Can we vote to leave it to the discretion of the editors? ←
13:40:34 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: I would prefer to be thorough and to create an audit trail I'd be happier to vote to implement the changes in the mailing list
Hadley Beeman: I would prefer to be thorough and to create an audit trail I'd be happier to vote to implement the changes in the mailing list ←
13:40:46 <PhilA> deirdrelee: Not all comments will necessarily have consensus
Deirdre Lee: Not all comments will necessarily have consensus ←
13:40:59 <MakxDekkers> +q
Makx Dekkers: +q ←
13:41:03 <Zakim> -JoaoPauloAlmeida
Zakim IRC Bot: -JoaoPauloAlmeida ←
13:41:14 <PhilA> ... some of it's just feedback that we can acknowledge and address, not necessarily agree
... some of it's just feedback that we can acknowledge and address, not necessarily agree ←
13:41:28 <markharrison> I noticed one minor consistency issue - that some requirements are named with R- prefix and others omit this R- prefix for the same requirement. Hopefully that's an easy thing to make consistent throughout the document.
Mark Harrison: I noticed one minor consistency issue - that some requirements are named with R- prefix and others omit this R- prefix for the same requirement. Hopefully that's an easy thing to make consistent throughout the document. ←
13:41:33 <PhilA> ack MakxDekkers
ack MakxDekkers ←
13:42:09 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
13:42:25 <PhilA> MakxDekkers: I was wondering why the rush? We have a draft, we have comments. What's the difference between saying we'll publish when those comments have been addressed and leaving hte vote to next week?
Makx Dekkers: I was wondering why the rush? We have a draft, we have comments. What's the difference between saying we'll publish when those comments have been addressed and leaving the vote to next week? ←
13:42:43 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Because it's an FPWD, there's not a lot of difference. We can republish at any time
Hadley Beeman: Because it's an FPWD, there's not a lot of difference. We can republish at any time ←
13:42:48 <PhilA> MakxDekkers: So what's the rush?
Makx Dekkers: So what's the rush? ←
13:43:20 <gatemezi> s/hte/the
13:43:27 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: The main reason is that .... it's what the W3C would like us do. It's useful for the wider community to see that we're active and have something to show
Hadley Beeman: The main reason is that .... it's what the W3C would like us do. It's useful for the wider community to see that we're active and have something to show ←
13:43:34 <adler1> it is nice to deliver on time
Steven Adler: it is nice to deliver on time ←
13:43:50 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: That said, no one is waiting for this, no implementations will be held up
Hadley Beeman: That said, no one is waiting for this, no implementations will be held up ←
13:44:04 <HadleyBeeman> +1 to adler1
Hadley Beeman: +1 to adler1 ←
13:44:18 <antoine> q+
Antoine Isaac: q+ ←
13:44:19 <PhilA> adler1: I think we should put it in public ASAP and get it in public. it's not the end, it's a beginning. We will continue to work on it
Steven Adler: I think we should put it in public ASAP and get it in public. it's not the end, it's a beginning. We will continue to work on it ←
13:44:23 <PhilA> ack antoine
ack antoine ←
13:44:52 <PhilA> antoine: I agree with that and I think we are on the same line internally. I was wondering whether the perception will be the same outside
Antoine Isaac: I agree with that and I think we are on the same line internally. I was wondering whether the perception will be the same outside ←
13:44:55 <PhilA> q+
q+ ←
13:45:07 <deirdrelee> q+
Deirdre Lee: q+ ←
13:45:21 <HadleyBeeman> ack phil
Hadley Beeman: ack phil ←
13:46:00 <PhilA> adler1: We'll know when we publish
Steven Adler: We'll know when we publish ←
13:46:01 <HadleyBeeman> ack deirdre
Hadley Beeman: ack deirdre ←
13:46:28 <HadleyBeeman> Phila: Conformance isn't really an issue in a UCR. We aren't building software here. But Respec puts it in automatically.
Phil Archer: Conformance isn't really an issue in a UCR. We aren't building software here. But Respec puts it in automatically. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←
13:46:31 <PhilA> PhilA: I'm expecting to remove the conformance section before publication
Phil Archer: I'm expecting to remove the conformance section before publication ←
13:47:20 <PhilA> deirdrelee: In relation Makx's Comment, I think I agree. It seems we're trying to rush and I don't think 1 week will make a lot of difference. We have a number of comments - it would be nice to have those addressed
Deirdre Lee: In relation Makx's Comment, I think I agree. It seems we're trying to rush and I don't think 1 week will make a lot of difference. We have a number of comments - it would be nice to have those addressed ←
13:47:30 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
13:47:57 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: You're not concerned that we'll have the same discussion next week?
Hadley Beeman: You're not concerned that we'll have the same discussion next week? ←
13:48:12 <PhilA> deirdrelee: I don't expect the same number of comments next week - we're getting eyes for the first time
Deirdre Lee: I don't expect the same number of comments next week - we're getting eyes for the first time ←
13:48:15 <antoine> q+
Antoine Isaac: q+ ←
13:48:21 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
13:48:22 <PhilA> ack antoine
ack antoine ←
13:48:50 <PhilA> I'm willing to commit to deirdrelee that I won't be upset if my comments aren't addressed in the FPWD
I'm willing to commit to deirdrelee that I won't be upset if my comments aren't addressed in the FPWD ←
13:49:09 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
13:49:15 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: it sounds as if Antoine, Bart, Deirdre and Bernadette need to talk anyway
Hadley Beeman: it sounds as if Antoine, Bart, Deirdre and Bernadette need to talk anyway ←
13:49:28 <PhilA> ... I personally don't think that needs to be done before FPWD
... I personally don't think that needs to be done before FPWD ←
13:49:58 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
13:49:59 <PhilA> deirdrelee: If the vote happens, then stuff still needs to happen on the official side. ?
Deirdre Lee: If the vote happens, then stuff still needs to happen on the official side. ? ←
13:50:01 <adler1> +1
Steven Adler: +1 ←
13:50:19 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: It needs a little bit of publication work. It needs to be announced to W3C membership,
Hadley Beeman: It needs a little bit of publication work. It needs to be announced to W3C membership, ←
13:50:26 <PhilA> PhilA: And we need to get approval for the short URI
Phil Archer: And we need to get approval for the short URI ←
13:51:12 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
13:51:22 <HadleyBeeman> PhilA: First, we only publish on Tuesdays and Thursdays. The webmaster, Jeremy, does them then.
Phil Archer: First, we only publish on Tuesdays and Thursdays. The webmaster, Jeremy, does them then. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←
13:51:25 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> (I am getting kicked out of skype continuously, don't know what's happening)
Joao Almeida: (I am getting kicked out of skype continuously, don't know what's happening) ←
13:51:55 <HadleyBeeman> … Usually, at this point, the editors would have until maybe Tuesday. I'd work with the editors to get it through PubRules. It would then be published on Thursday.
Hadley Beeman: … Usually, at this point, the editors would have until maybe Tuesday. I'd work with the editors to get it through PubRules. It would then be published on Thursday. ←
13:52:32 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
13:52:39 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, IPcaller is me
Joao Almeida: Zakim, IPcaller is me ←
13:52:39 <Zakim> +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it ←
13:52:42 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, mute me
Joao Almeida: Zakim, mute me ←
13:52:42 <Zakim> JoaoPauloAlmeida should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: JoaoPauloAlmeida should now be muted ←
13:52:47 <HadleyBeeman> … PubRules takes time. People need to do these bits, which makes it a bit vague. Yes, there is a bit of pressure to get something out by the end of the month.
Hadley Beeman: … PubRules takes time. People need to do these bits, which makes it a bit vague. Yes, there is a bit of pressure to get something out by the end of the month. ←
13:53:22 <HadleyBeeman> … Discussion today to say "it will be better is next week" would also be okay. I also understand that we could be replaying this discussion again next week.
Hadley Beeman: … Discussion today to say "it will be better is next week" would also be okay. I also understand that we could be replaying this discussion again next week. ←
13:54:15 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: We can vote today and you get until Tuesday to make changes
Hadley Beeman: We can vote today and you get until Tuesday to make changes ←
13:54:51 <adler1> I vote to vote
Steven Adler: I vote to vote ←
13:55:03 <Sumit> +1 to vote today
Sumit Purohit: +1 to vote today ←
13:55:03 <PhilA> deirdrelee: Does it matter that Bernadette isn't here?
Deirdre Lee: Does it matter that Bernadette isn't here? ←
13:55:14 <antoine> +1 We can vote today and you get until Tuesday to make changes
Antoine Isaac: +1 We can vote today and you get until Tuesday to make changes ←
13:55:15 <PhilA> deirdrelee: OK, let's vote today then
Deirdre Lee: OK, let's vote today then ←
13:56:03 <nathalia_> +1 to vote today
Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: +1 to vote today ←
13:56:15 <PhilA> Draft... To seek publication of the Use Cases & requirements Document on Thursday 5th June, following the editors' best efforts to address comments already made on the list
Draft... To seek publication of the Use Cases & requirements Document on Thursday 5th June, following the editors' best efforts to address comments already made on the list ←
13:56:42 <PhilA> PROPOSAL: To seek publication of the Use Cases & requirements Document on Thursday 5th June, following the editors' best efforts to address comments already made on the list
PROPOSED: To seek publication of the Use Cases & requirements Document on Thursday 5th June, following the editors' best efforts to address comments already made on the list ←
13:56:44 <HadleyBeeman> +1
Hadley Beeman: +1 ←
13:56:45 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1
Bart van Leeuwen: +1 ←
13:56:46 <antoine> +1
Antoine Isaac: +1 ←
13:56:47 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> +1
Joao Almeida: +1 ←
13:56:47 <Sumit> +1
Sumit Purohit: +1 ←
13:56:48 <EricKauz> +1
13:56:48 <MakxDekkers> +1
Makx Dekkers: +1 ←
13:56:49 <deirdrelee> +1
Deirdre Lee: +1 ←
13:56:49 <gatemezi> +1
Ghislain Atemezing: +1 ←
13:56:58 <flavio_> +1
Flavio Yanai: +1 ←
13:56:59 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 ←
13:57:08 <PhilA> RESOLVED: To seek publication of the Use Cases & requirements Document on Thursday 5th June, following the editors' best efforts to address comments already made on the list
RESOLVED: To seek publication of the Use Cases & requirements Document on Thursday 5th June, following the editors' best efforts to address comments already made on the list ←
13:57:09 <markharrison> +1
Mark Harrison: +1 ←
13:57:34 <PhilA> htpp://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp-ucr/
http://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp-ucr/ ←
13:57:38 <nathalia_> +1
Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: +1 ←
13:57:42 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> +1
Joao Almeida: +1 ←
13:57:43 <yaso> +1
Yaso Córdova: +1 ←
13:57:44 <markharrison> s/htpp/http/
13:57:45 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1
Bart van Leeuwen: +1 ←
13:57:45 <Sumit> +1
Sumit Purohit: +1 ←
13:57:46 <adler1> +1
Steven Adler: +1 ←
13:57:47 <deirdrelee> +1
Deirdre Lee: +1 ←
13:57:48 <markharrison> +1
Mark Harrison: +1 ←
13:57:52 <MakxDekkers> +1
Makx Dekkers: +1 ←
13:57:52 <HadleyBeeman> +1
Hadley Beeman: +1 ←
13:57:54 <antoine> +1
Antoine Isaac: +1 ←
13:57:57 <antoine> :-)
Antoine Isaac: :-) ←
13:58:41 <gatemezi> +1
Ghislain Atemezing: +1 ←
13:58:44 <newton_> +1
Newton Calegari: +1 ←
13:58:54 <adler1> congratulations to the team on approving our first working draft
Steven Adler: congratulations to the team on approving our first working draft ←
13:58:58 <PhilA> Topic: Vocabularies Call
13:58:59 <nathalia_> +1
Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: +1 ←
13:59:08 <HadleyBeeman> http://doodle.com/tpp2p8fvpmchx4s4
Hadley Beeman: http://doodle.com/tpp2p8fvpmchx4s4 ←
13:59:14 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: We've been trying to schedule this new weekly call
Hadley Beeman: We've been trying to schedule this new weekly call ←
13:59:40 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Who is able to fill this in and let us know when you're available
Hadley Beeman: Who is able to fill this in and let us know when you're available ←
13:59:45 <PhilA> q+ to talk about the Doodle
q+ to talk about the Doodle ←
14:00:05 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: We can reserve Zakim etc.
Hadley Beeman: We can reserve Zakim etc. ←
14:00:19 <PhilA> antoine: We may or may not meet every week
Antoine Isaac: We may or may not meet every week ←
14:00:30 <PhilA> antoine: But even if it doesn't happen every week we should reserve a single slot.
Antoine Isaac: But even if it doesn't happen every week we should reserve a single slot. ←
14:00:45 <adler1> me too, gotta drop
Steven Adler: me too, gotta drop ←
14:01:18 <HadleyBeeman> action: antoine to arrange call for vocabs from the Doodle poll and to tell the rest of the wg
ACTION: antoine to arrange call for vocabs from the Doodle poll and to tell the rest of the wg ←
14:01:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-44 - Arrange call for vocabs from the doodle poll and to tell the rest of the wg [on Antoine Isaac - due 2014-06-06].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-44 - Arrange call for vocabs from the doodle poll and to tell the rest of the wg [on Antoine Isaac - due 2014-06-06]. ←
14:01:19 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Thanks all
Hadley Beeman: Thanks all ←
14:01:21 <adler1> ciao
Steven Adler: ciao ←
14:01:23 <BartvanLeeuwen> bye
Bart van Leeuwen: bye ←
14:01:26 <Zakim> -BartvanLeeuwen
Zakim IRC Bot: -BartvanLeeuwen ←
14:01:27 <Zakim> -adler1
Zakim IRC Bot: -adler1 ←
14:01:28 <nathalia_> bye
Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: bye ←
14:01:31 <gatemezi> bye!
Ghislain Atemezing: bye! ←
14:01:32 <Zakim> -sumit
Zakim IRC Bot: -sumit ←
14:01:32 <yaso> Bye!
Yaso Córdova: Bye! ←
14:01:34 <Zakim> -EricKauz
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricKauz ←
14:01:34 <Zakim> -PhilA
Zakim IRC Bot: -PhilA ←
14:01:35 <Zakim> -HadleyBeeman
Zakim IRC Bot: -HadleyBeeman ←
14:01:35 <Zakim> -antoine
Zakim IRC Bot: -antoine ←
14:01:36 <Zakim> -deirdrelee
Zakim IRC Bot: -deirdrelee ←
14:01:37 <Zakim> -markharrison
Zakim IRC Bot: -markharrison ←
14:01:39 <markharrison> bye!
Mark Harrison: bye! ←
14:01:40 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Thanks Bernadette and Deirdre
Hadley Beeman: Thanks Bernadette and Deirdre ←
14:01:41 <Zakim> -Yaso
Zakim IRC Bot: -Yaso ←
14:01:48 <Zakim> -JoaoPauloAlmeida
Zakim IRC Bot: -JoaoPauloAlmeida ←
14:01:49 <Zakim> -Makx_Dekkers
Zakim IRC Bot: -Makx_Dekkers ←
14:01:49 <Zakim> DATA_DWBP()9:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: DATA_DWBP()9:00AM has ended ←
14:01:50 <Zakim> Attendees were sumit, BartvanLeeuwen, PhilA, deirdrelee, EricKauz, JoaoPauloAlmeida, newton, antoine, HadleyBeeman, adler1, flavio, +44.122.374.aaaa, markharrison,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were sumit, BartvanLeeuwen, PhilA, deirdrelee, EricKauz, JoaoPauloAlmeida, newton, antoine, HadleyBeeman, adler1, flavio, +44.122.374.aaaa, markharrison, ←
14:01:50 <Zakim> ... JoaoPauloAlmeida_, Makx_Dekkers, Caroline, nathalia, vagner, nathalia_
Zakim IRC Bot: ... JoaoPauloAlmeida_, Makx_Dekkers, Caroline, nathalia, vagner, nathalia_ ←
Formatted by CommonScribe