edit

DWBP Weekly

Minutes of 30 May 2014

Agenda
https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20140530
Seen
Antoine Isaac, Bart van Leeuwen, Caroline Burle, Deirdre Lee, Eric Kauz, Flavio Yanai, Ghislain Atemezing, Hadley Beeman, Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto, Joao Almeida, Makx Dekkers, Mark Harrison, Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício, Newton Calegari, Phil Archer, Steven Adler, Sumit Purohit, Yaso Córdova
Chair
Hadley Beeman
Scribe
Phil Archer
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. Accept last week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2014/05/23-dwbp-minutes.html link
  2. To seek publication of the Use Cases & requirements Document on Thursday 5th June, following the editors' best efforts to address comments already made on the list link
Topics
12:58:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/30-dwbp-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/30-dwbp-irc

12:58:48 <PhilA_> zakim, this will be dwbp

Phil Archer: zakim, this will be dwbp

12:58:48 <Zakim> ok, PhilA_; I see DATA_DWBP()9:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, PhilA_; I see DATA_DWBP()9:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

12:59:21 <Zakim> DATA_DWBP()9:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: DATA_DWBP()9:00AM has now started

12:59:25 <PhilA_> PhilA_ has changed the topic to: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20140530

Phil Archer: PhilA_ has changed the topic to: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20140530

12:59:27 <Zakim> +sumit

Zakim IRC Bot: +sumit

12:59:35 <PhilA_> Meeting: DWBP Weekly
12:59:46 <PhilA_> Chair: Hadley
12:59:50 <PhilA_> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20140530
13:00:13 <Zakim> +??P19

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P19

13:00:14 <Zakim> +Yaso

Zakim IRC Bot: +Yaso

13:00:20 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??p19 is me

Bart van Leeuwen: Zakim, ??p19 is me

13:00:20 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +BartvanLeeuwen; got it

13:00:26 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

13:00:28 <PhilA> zakim, ipcaller is me

Phil Archer: zakim, ipcaller is me

13:00:28 <Zakim> +PhilA; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +PhilA; got it

13:00:30 <newton> Hi there

Newton Calegari: Hi there

13:00:42 <Sumit> Hello everyone. This is SumitPurohit

Sumit Purohit: Hello everyone. This is SumitPurohit

13:01:00 <Ig_Bittencourt> Hi Sumit.

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: Hi Sumit.

13:01:05 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

13:01:19 <deirdrelee> zakim, ipcalleris me

Deirdre Lee: zakim, ipcalleris me

13:01:19 <Zakim> I don't understand 'ipcalleris me', deirdrelee

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'ipcalleris me', deirdrelee

13:01:21 <Ig_Bittencourt> Hi everyone. I am trying to connect on the call but still have problems.

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: Hi everyone. I am trying to connect on the call but still have problems.

13:01:24 <deirdrelee> zakim, ipcaller is me

Deirdre Lee: zakim, ipcaller is me

13:01:24 <Zakim> +deirdrelee; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +deirdrelee; got it

13:02:02 <Zakim> +EricKauz

Zakim IRC Bot: +EricKauz

13:02:24 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

13:02:29 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, IPcaller is me

Joao Almeida: Zakim, IPcaller is me

13:02:29 <Zakim> +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it

13:02:33 <yaso> Zakim, yaso has newton

Yaso Córdova: Zakim, yaso has newton

13:02:33 <Zakim> +newton; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +newton; got it

13:02:34 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

13:02:43 <antoine> zakim, IPcaller is me

Antoine Isaac: zakim, IPcaller is me

13:02:43 <Zakim> +antoine; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +antoine; got it

13:04:59 <Zakim> +HadleyBeeman

Zakim IRC Bot: +HadleyBeeman

13:05:14 <Zakim> +adler1

Zakim IRC Bot: +adler1

13:05:46 <newton> Zakim, yaso has flavio

Newton Calegari: Zakim, yaso has flavio

13:05:46 <Zakim> +flavio; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +flavio; got it

13:06:04 <Zakim> + +44.122.374.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.122.374.aaaa

13:06:18 <markharrison> zakim, aaaa is markharrison

Mark Harrison: zakim, aaaa is markharrison

13:06:18 <Zakim> +markharrison; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +markharrison; got it

13:07:08 <HadleyBeeman> zakim, who is here?

Hadley Beeman: zakim, who is here?

13:07:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see sumit, Yaso, BartvanLeeuwen, PhilA, deirdrelee, EricKauz, JoaoPauloAlmeida, antoine, HadleyBeeman, adler1, markharrison

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see sumit, Yaso, BartvanLeeuwen, PhilA, deirdrelee, EricKauz, JoaoPauloAlmeida, antoine, HadleyBeeman, adler1, markharrison

13:07:10 <Zakim> Yaso has flavio

Zakim IRC Bot: Yaso has flavio

13:07:10 <Zakim> On IRC I see flavio, adler1, markharrison, HadleyBeeman, yaso, antoine, gatemezi, EricKauz, newton, deirdrelee, RRSAgent, Zakim, PhilA, Sumit, JoaoPauloAlmeida,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see flavio, adler1, markharrison, HadleyBeeman, yaso, antoine, gatemezi, EricKauz, newton, deirdrelee, RRSAgent, Zakim, PhilA, Sumit, JoaoPauloAlmeida,

13:07:10 <Zakim> ... BartvanLeeuwen, Ig_Bittencourt, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: ... BartvanLeeuwen, Ig_Bittencourt, trackbot

13:07:15 <PhilA> scribe: PhilA

(Scribe set to Phil Archer)

13:07:21 <PhilA> scribeNick: PhilA
13:07:22 <Zakim> -JoaoPauloAlmeida

Zakim IRC Bot: -JoaoPauloAlmeida

13:07:27 <HadleyBeeman> http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2014-05-23

Hadley Beeman: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2014-05-23

13:08:05 <PhilA> PROPOSAL: Accept last week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2014/05/23-dwbp-minutes.html

PROPOSED: Accept last week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2014/05/23-dwbp-minutes.html

13:08:05 <JoaoPauloAlmeida_> Strangely I got kicked out of the call

Joao Almeida: Strangely I got kicked out of the call

13:08:13 <JoaoPauloAlmeida_> and of the IRC

Joao Almeida: and of the IRC

13:08:36 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

13:08:41 <JoaoPauloAlmeida_> Zakim, IPcaller is me

Joao Almeida: Zakim, IPcaller is me

13:08:41 <Zakim> +JoaoPauloAlmeida_; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +JoaoPauloAlmeida_; got it

13:09:07 <HadleyBeeman> +1

Hadley Beeman: +1

13:09:07 <adler1> +1

Steven Adler: +1

13:09:08 <deirdrelee> +1

Deirdre Lee: +1

13:09:10 <antoine> +1

Antoine Isaac: +1

13:09:11 <yaso> +

Yaso Córdova: +

13:09:11 <newton> +1

Newton Calegari: +1

13:09:13 <Sumit> +1

Sumit Purohit: +1

13:09:14 <yaso> +1

Yaso Córdova: +1

13:09:24 <PhilA> RESOLVED: Accept last week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2014/05/23-dwbp-minutes.html

RESOLVED: Accept last week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2014/05/23-dwbp-minutes.html

13:09:27 <markharrison> +1

Mark Harrison: +1

13:09:44 <PhilA> Topic: Use Cases and Requirements doc

1. Use Cases and Requirements doc

13:09:54 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: We've had some comments on the list. What's new deirdrelee?

Hadley Beeman: We've had some comments on the list. What's new deirdrelee?

13:10:09 <PhilA> deirdrelee: See http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/usecasesv1.html

Deirdre Lee: See http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/usecasesv1.html

13:10:33 <PhilA> ... Bernadette added the abstract, we've cleaned up some of the use cases and general challenges. We're working our way through

... Bernadette added the abstract, we've cleaned up some of the use cases and general challenges. We're working our way through

13:10:55 <PhilA> ... if you feel it's OK now for FPWD then OK but we can carry on fine tuning

... if you feel it's OK now for FPWD then OK but we can carry on fine tuning

13:11:17 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Personally I think it's OK for you to carry on incorporating feedback. FPWD doesn't mean it's finished

Hadley Beeman: Personally I think it's OK for you to carry on incorporating feedback. FPWD doesn't mean it's finished

13:11:35 <PhilA> ... I think we've agreed in our discussion that we'll come back to the doc

... I think we've agreed in our discussion that we'll come back to the doc

13:11:45 <PhilA> ... we agree it's not done but that's OK

... we agree it's not done but that's OK

13:12:04 <PhilA> ... trying not to steer people to a conclusion

... trying not to steer people to a conclusion

13:12:17 <PhilA> Steve: I think the doc is good enough to be published now

Steven Adler: I think the doc is good enough to be published now

13:13:03 <PhilA> Steve: And I'm also really proud that we've achieved this. We've collected a lot of material in a short time. We started late and got organised late and some good people put it together very well

Steven Adler: And I'm also really proud that we've achieved this. We've collected a lot of material in a short time. We started late and got organised late and some good people put it together very well

13:13:06 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: +1

Hadley Beeman: +1

13:13:20 <markharrison> +1 to steve's remark

Mark Harrison: +1 to steve's remark

13:13:31 <gatemezi> +1 to steve's remark as well

Ghislain Atemezing: +1 to steve's remark as well

13:13:38 <MakxDekkers> +1

Makx Dekkers: +1

13:13:43 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: I was starting to hear last week that as we have so many people working on so many things, we're not joining up as much as we should

Hadley Beeman: I was starting to hear last week that as we have so many people working on so many things, we're not joining up as much as we should

13:13:54 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Some of the work they've done need to be fed in

Hadley Beeman: Some of the work they've done need to be fed in

13:13:59 <Zakim> +Makx_Dekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: +Makx_Dekkers

13:14:23 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> I would hope that Antoine's suggestion of disclaimer is a good one.

Joao Almeida: I would hope that Antoine's suggestion of disclaimer is a good one.

13:14:43 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+

Bart van Leeuwen: q+

13:15:04 <PhilA> adler1: The first draft is good enough to be published. The tendency is now to move on to the other docs and leave it behind. How can we ensure that we go back to it and update it, perhaps annotating it.

Steven Adler: The first draft is good enough to be published. The tendency is now to move on to the other docs and leave it behind. How can we ensure that we go back to it and update it, perhaps annotating it.

13:15:09 <deirdrelee> q+

Deirdre Lee: q+

13:15:13 <PhilA> ack BartvanLeeuwen

ack BartvanLeeuwen

13:15:15 <HadleyBeeman> ack bart

Hadley Beeman: ack bart

13:15:16 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> What I meant is that the disclaimer he suggests should be added before publication. It is an important one.

Joao Almeida: What I meant is that the disclaimer he suggests should be added before publication. It is an important one.

13:15:46 <Caroline> Zakim, caroline has Caroline

Caroline Burle: Zakim, caroline has Caroline

13:15:46 <Zakim> sorry, Caroline, I do not recognize a party named 'caroline'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Caroline, I do not recognize a party named 'caroline'

13:16:07 <PhilA> BartvanLeeuwen: This week Antoine and I met to talk about the Q&G vocab. We were surprised by the time line. We'd like the UCR doc to bed in a little longer rather than run the two and then wonder why they don't match

Bart van Leeuwen: This week Antoine and I met to talk about the Q&G vocab. We were surprised by the time line. We'd like the UCR doc to bed in a little longer rather than run the two and then wonder why they don't match

13:16:08 <newton> Zakim, yaso has Caroline

Newton Calegari: Zakim, yaso has Caroline

13:16:08 <Zakim> +Caroline; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Caroline; got it

13:16:09 <yaso> Zakim, Yaso has Caroline

Yaso Córdova: Zakim, Yaso has Caroline

13:16:10 <Zakim> Caroline was already listed in Yaso, yaso

Zakim IRC Bot: Caroline was already listed in Yaso, yaso

13:16:11 <PhilA> ack deirdrelee

ack deirdrelee

13:16:22 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Further, Antoine has done a good diagnosis of the level of generality of the requirements and the need to refine for more specific requirements.

Joao Almeida: Further, Antoine has done a good diagnosis of the level of generality of the requirements and the need to refine for more specific requirements.

13:17:03 <PhilA> deirdrelee: I think we're seeing some of that already. We're going back and making changes, adding use cases etc. It is evolving and we'd like it to continue

Deirdre Lee: I think we're seeing some of that already. We're going back and making changes, adding use cases etc. It is evolving and we'd like it to continue

13:17:21 <PhilA> ... but wrt Bart, it would be good to get more feedback from the vocab editors and the BP sections

... but wrt Bart, it would be good to get more feedback from the vocab editors and the BP sections

13:17:32 <PhilA> ... is the UCR as it is sufficient? If not, what's missing?

... is the UCR as it is sufficient? If not, what's missing?

13:17:39 <PhilA> ... is it too vague/ Is it too general?

... is it too vague/ Is it too general?

13:18:00 <PhilA> deirdrelee: I agree with BartvanLeeuwen that the UCR should inform the other work

Deirdre Lee: I agree with BartvanLeeuwen that the UCR should inform the other work

13:18:26 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: I think that we need to continue to nurture the UCR to make it useful and to keep it useful

Hadley Beeman: I think that we need to continue to nurture the UCR to make it useful and to keep it useful

13:19:30 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: I don't want everything to wait as there is an interdependence. We could spend 6 - 9 months on UCR and still think there are gaps

Hadley Beeman: I don't want everything to wait as there is an interdependence. We could spend 6 - 9 months on UCR and still think there are gaps

13:20:04 <PhilA> BartvanLeeuwen: One of the things that I notice... I wonder if some are not so much use cases as show cases. Are some of these more like 'this is what's being done'

Bart van Leeuwen: One of the things that I notice... I wonder if some are not so much use cases as show cases. Are some of these more like 'this is what's being done'

13:20:44 <PhilA> ... so if we want to create another vocab to do ??? we could then match it with the show cases?? (Not sure I got that right, Bart, sorry

... so if we want to create another vocab to do ??? we could then match it with the show cases?? (Not sure I got that right, Bart, sorry

13:21:03 <PhilA> ... basically we could start from the show cases and work back to the vocabulary

... basically we could start from the show cases and work back to the vocabulary

13:21:21 <deirdrelee> q+

Deirdre Lee: q+

13:21:42 <adler1> Bart I thought we were reading the use cases to learn requirements

Steven Adler: Bart I thought we were reading the use cases to learn requirements

13:21:52 <adler1> that's why we collected them

Steven Adler: that's why we collected them

13:22:07 <PhilA> BartvanLeeuwen: We're going to create a vocab because we think we need to cover quality and granularity. OK, but we should look at the UCR first

Bart van Leeuwen: We're going to create a vocab because we think we need to cover quality and granularity. OK, but we should look at the UCR first

13:22:13 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Yes, that is what we're doing

Hadley Beeman: Yes, that is what we're doing

13:22:26 <Zakim> -JoaoPauloAlmeida_

Zakim IRC Bot: -JoaoPauloAlmeida_

13:22:29 <PhilA> ... but we need to work on the vocabs and the BPs and make progress

... but we need to work on the vocabs and the BPs and make progress

13:22:51 <PhilA> ... but do you think you're being pushed in a different direction?

... but do you think you're being pushed in a different direction?

13:23:00 <PhilA> -> http://www.w3.org/2013/05/odbp-charter charter

-> http://www.w3.org/2013/05/odbp-charter charter

13:23:01 <antoine> January 2015 is final delivery of vocs

Antoine Isaac: January 2015 is final delivery of vocs

13:23:04 <adler1> But what Bart raises is another opportunity to reflect on the Use Cases Draft on a regular basis to validate what we create is based on documented requirements

Steven Adler: But what Bart raises is another opportunity to reflect on the Use Cases Draft on a regular basis to validate what we create is based on documented requirements

13:23:09 <PhilA> q+

q+

13:23:32 <PhilA> q-

q-

13:23:48 <yaso> Zakim, yaso has nathalia

Yaso Córdova: Zakim, yaso has nathalia

13:23:48 <Zakim> +nathalia; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +nathalia; got it

13:23:49 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

13:23:49 <PhilA> PhilA: There is no timeline for the UCR, it's not in the charter

Phil Archer: There is no timeline for the UCR, it's not in the charter

13:23:53 <PhilA> ack deirdrelee

ack deirdrelee

13:23:53 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, IPcaller is me

Joao Almeida: Zakim, IPcaller is me

13:23:54 <Zakim> +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it

13:24:09 <PhilA> deirdrelee: There a requirements in the UCR already for the Q&GV

Deirdre Lee: There a requirements in the UCR already for the Q&GV

13:24:11 <Zakim> -JoaoPauloAlmeida

Zakim IRC Bot: -JoaoPauloAlmeida

13:24:21 <PhilA> ... is that enough for your vocab or do you need more detail, Bart?

... is that enough for your vocab or do you need more detail, Bart?

13:24:26 <PhilA> BartvanLeeuwen: It's good enough for a start

Bart van Leeuwen: It's good enough for a start

13:24:31 <HadleyBeeman> q?

Hadley Beeman: q?

13:24:40 <antoine> q+

Antoine Isaac: q+

13:24:58 <PhilA> deirdrelee: So in terms of timing, the current version of the UCR is feeding into the vocab at the start of the work, it's just the official timing you're worried about

Deirdre Lee: So in terms of timing, the current version of the UCR is feeding into the vocab at the start of the work, it's just the official timing you're worried about

13:24:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

13:25:00 <PhilA> BartvanLeeuwen: Yes

Bart van Leeuwen: Yes

13:25:03 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, IPcaller is me

Joao Almeida: Zakim, IPcaller is me

13:25:03 <Zakim> +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it

13:25:08 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: I think we can adjust the official timing

Hadley Beeman: I think we can adjust the official timing

13:25:16 <PhilA> ... don't feel too contrained by it

... don't feel too constrained by it

13:25:22 <PhilA> q+ to make comments on timing

q+ to make comments on timing

13:25:35 <PhilA> ack me

ack me

13:25:35 <Zakim> PhilA, you wanted to make comments on timing

Zakim IRC Bot: PhilA, you wanted to make comments on timing

13:25:41 <markharrison> s/contrained/constrained/
13:25:59 <HadleyBeeman> PhilA: The only hard deadline at the moment is the end of the working group, July 2016.  That's two years and a month from now.

Phil Archer: The only hard deadline at the moment is the end of the working group, July 2016. That's two years and a month from now. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ]

13:26:38 <HadleyBeeman> … But: we put the vocab work to finish earlier than that, because I think the vocabs are relatively easy (compared to best practice).  At charter-writing time, we expected them to be working group notes (not recommendations).

Hadley Beeman: … But: we put the vocab work to finish earlier than that, because I think the vocabs are relatively easy (compared to best practice). At charter-writing time, we expected them to be working group notes (not recommendations).

13:27:21 <HadleyBeeman> … The last six months (first half of 2106), I think we'll be gathering implementation reports for the Best Practices.  Which will be a challenge; we'll need lots of evidence that other people are using our recommendations.

Hadley Beeman: … The last six months (first half of 2106), I think we'll be gathering implementation reports for the Best Practices. Which will be a challenge; we'll need lots of evidence that other people are using our recommendations.

13:27:49 <nathalia> deirdrelee: do you see mu e-mail about the use case #20?

Deirdre Lee: do you see my e-mail about the use case #20? [ Scribe Assist by Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício ]

13:27:55 <HadleyBeeman> … Between now and that, we do have some flexibility in timing. If we decide to put these two vocabularies to Recommendation (instead of working goup note), that will take longer.

Hadley Beeman: … Between now and that, we do have some flexibility in timing. If we decide to put these two vocabularies to Recommendation (instead of working goup note), that will take longer.

13:28:07 <gatemezi> s/mu/my
13:28:18 <HadleyBeeman> … Otherwise, we need to have the vocabs done by Christmas 2015

Hadley Beeman: … Otherwise, we need to have the vocabs done by Christmas 2015

13:28:22 <adler1> +1 PhilA

Steven Adler: +1 PhilA

13:28:25 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: How does that sound to you BartvanLeeuwen?

Hadley Beeman: How does that sound to you BartvanLeeuwen?

13:28:29 <PhilA> BartvanLeeuwen: OK, yes

Bart van Leeuwen: OK, yes

13:28:31 <HadleyBeeman> ack antoine

Hadley Beeman: ack antoine

13:28:31 <PhilA> ack antoine

ack antoine

13:28:40 <newton> Zakim, yaso has vagner

Newton Calegari: Zakim, yaso has vagner

13:28:41 <Zakim> +vagner; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +vagner; got it

13:29:08 <PhilA> antoine: To pick up on deirdrelee's point. On the Q&G vocab, there's still a lot of work to do to gather the requirements

Antoine Isaac: To pick up on deirdrelee's point. On the Q&G vocab, there's still a lot of work to do to gather the requirements

13:29:33 <PhilA> .. the existing 4 requirements read more like design pricniples. The real requirements would be on metrics and opinions and they're a bit general

.. the existing 4 requirements read more like design principles. The real requirements would be on metrics and opinions and they're a bit general

13:29:49 <PhilA> ... I think we can do a lot from that but it requires more digging on our side

... I think we can do a lot from that but it requires more digging on our side

13:30:09 <antoine> q+

Antoine Isaac: q+

13:30:30 <gatemezi> s/pricniples/principles
13:30:38 <PhilA> deirdrelee: I agree antoine. They are quite vague and general. We have about 30 reqs that are all on that level. If we go into detail we may end up with over 100 reqs and maybe the vocab editors could work more closely with us

Deirdre Lee: I agree antoine. They are quite vague and general. We have about 30 reqs that are all on that level. If we go into detail we may end up with over 100 reqs and maybe the vocab editors could work more closely with us

13:31:06 <PhilA> ... maybe you and Bart can think in terms of the Q&G, others can think about their areas and so we improve the UCR as we go

... maybe you and Bart can think in terms of the Q&G, others can think about their areas and so we improve the UCR as we go

13:31:15 <HadleyBeeman> ack anto

Hadley Beeman: ack anto

13:31:19 <PhilA> antoine: I agree

Antoine Isaac: I agree

13:31:53 <PhilA> antoine: The scope of the UCR doc is very wide. If we cover everything in details it's going to be too much for anyone to read

Antoine Isaac: The scope of the UCR doc is very wide. If we cover everything in details it's going to be too much for anyone to read

13:32:08 <PhilA> ... maybe the detailed requirements shouldn't be in the UCR

... maybe the detailed requirements shouldn't be in the UCR

13:32:32 <PhilA> ... I think the current granularity of the UCR is OK I think. My worry is to make sure that everyone knows what's involved here

... I think the current granularity of the UCR is OK I think. My worry is to make sure that everyone knows what's involved here

13:32:54 <PhilA> deirdrelee: Yep. We need to think about how we marry those levels of granularity

Deirdre Lee: Yep. We need to think about how we marry those levels of granularity

13:33:28 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: If I understand you correctly, it sounds like the Q&G group should spend more time on your own or with deirdrelee and Bernadette to see what needs to be added or changed to carry on.

Hadley Beeman: If I understand you correctly, it sounds like the Q&G group should spend more time on your own or with deirdrelee and Bernadette to see what needs to be added or changed to carry on.

13:33:53 <PhilA> deirdrelee: Maybe it goes back to Steve's original point about continuous updating of the UCR

Deirdre Lee: Maybe it goes back to Steve's original point about continuous updating of the UCR

13:33:56 <PhilA> q+

q+

13:34:00 <antoine> +1

Antoine Isaac: +1

13:34:03 <HadleyBeeman> ack phil

Hadley Beeman: ack phil

13:34:30 <HadleyBeeman> Phila: The vocab documents will both begin with an intro, refer to other works, motivations.

Phil Archer: The vocab documents will both begin with an intro, refer to other works, motivations. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ]

13:34:48 <HadleyBeeman> … There's a fuzzy line as to whether that's UCR document or just introducing the vocab, explaining why it is the way it is.

Hadley Beeman: … There's a fuzzy line as to whether that's UCR document or just introducing the vocab, explaining why it is the way it is.

13:35:13 <HadleyBeeman> … Some of that belongs in the vocab itself.  In the extreme case, you could write another document saying 'this is the motivation for the vocabulary.'  If that would serve a purpose.

Hadley Beeman: … Some of that belongs in the vocab itself. In the extreme case, you could write another document saying 'this is the motivation for the vocabulary.' If that would serve a purpose.

13:35:24 <antoine> I think that's alright too

Antoine Isaac: I think that's alright too

13:35:55 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: If I understand the discussion correctly, it's about the thinking, not so much where anything gets written down

Hadley Beeman: If I understand the discussion correctly, it's about the thinking, not so much where anything gets written down

13:36:01 <antoine> yes

Antoine Isaac: yes

13:36:05 <PhilA> BartvanLeeuwen: Sounds good to me

Bart van Leeuwen: Sounds good to me

13:36:10 <antoine> q+

Antoine Isaac: q+

13:36:14 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Any more comments on the UCR at this time?

Hadley Beeman: Any more comments on the UCR at this time?

13:36:20 <HadleyBeeman> ack antoine

Hadley Beeman: ack antoine

13:36:58 <PhilA> antoine: For the editors... we made some comments. I think I'm OK with publishing the doc as such, but I also think it's fair to ask the editors if they want a little time to make changes they already know they want to make

Antoine Isaac: For the editors... we made some comments. I think I'm OK with publishing the doc as such, but I also think it's fair to ask the editors if they want a little time to make changes they already know they want to make

13:37:17 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> I found the disclaimers that Antoine suggested in the e-mail should be added before publication (even if with FPWD status)

Joao Almeida: I found the disclaimers that Antoine suggested in the e-mail should be added before publication (even if with FPWD status)

13:37:25 <nathalia_> Zakim, yaso has nathalia_

Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: Zakim, yaso has nathalia_

13:37:25 <Zakim> +nathalia_; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +nathalia_; got it

13:37:29 <gatemezi> Maybe one way to marry the vocabs and the UCR doc is to come out with set of Competency Questions (CQs) that will help in the design of the vocabs..

Ghislain Atemezing: Maybe one way to marry the vocabs and the UCR doc is to come out with set of Competency Questions (CQs) that will help in the design of the vocabs..

13:37:43 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: We can push the vote to next week. We can vote to publish with the changes already on the list or we can publish as it is and say it's a live doc

Hadley Beeman: We can push the vote to next week. We can vote to publish with the changes already on the list or we can publish as it is and say it's a live doc

13:37:49 <PhilA> deirdrelee: I like optiosn 1 or 2

Deirdre Lee: I like options 1 or 2

13:38:03 <PhilA> s/optiosn/options/
13:38:12 <yaso> +1 to JoaoPaulo

Yaso Córdova: +1 to JoaoPaulo

13:38:16 <PhilA> deirdrelee: I guess it's easier to delay the vote to next week

Deirdre Lee: I guess it's easier to delay the vote to next week

13:38:34 <antoine> q+

Antoine Isaac: q+

13:38:39 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: My instinct is to vote today to publish with the changes in the list.

Hadley Beeman: My instinct is to vote today to publish with the changes in the list.

13:39:00 <PhilA> ... if this were not a FPWD and not so fluid, then OK, we'd need to agree with every word

... if this were not a FPWD and not so fluid, then OK, we'd need to agree with every word

13:39:14 <PhilA> deirdrelee: Yeah... there are no major changes

Deirdre Lee: Yeah... there are no major changes

13:39:23 <PhilA> ... the CSVW WG is in a similar position I believe

... the CSVW WG is in a similar position I believe

13:39:29 <PhilA> Ack antoine

Ack antoine

13:39:44 <PhilA> antoine: Can we vote to leave it to the discretion of the editors?

Antoine Isaac: Can we vote to leave it to the discretion of the editors?

13:40:34 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: I would prefer to be thorough and to create an audit trail I'd be happier to vote to implement the changes in the mailing list

Hadley Beeman: I would prefer to be thorough and to create an audit trail I'd be happier to vote to implement the changes in the mailing list

13:40:46 <PhilA> deirdrelee: Not all comments will necessarily have consensus

Deirdre Lee: Not all comments will necessarily have consensus

13:40:59 <MakxDekkers> +q

Makx Dekkers: +q

13:41:03 <Zakim> -JoaoPauloAlmeida

Zakim IRC Bot: -JoaoPauloAlmeida

13:41:14 <PhilA> ... some of it's just feedback that we can acknowledge  and address, not necessarily agree

... some of it's just feedback that we can acknowledge and address, not necessarily agree

13:41:28 <markharrison> I noticed one minor consistency issue - that some requirements are named with R- prefix and others omit this R- prefix for the same requirement.  Hopefully that's an easy thing to make consistent throughout the document.

Mark Harrison: I noticed one minor consistency issue - that some requirements are named with R- prefix and others omit this R- prefix for the same requirement. Hopefully that's an easy thing to make consistent throughout the document.

13:41:33 <PhilA> ack MakxDekkers

ack MakxDekkers

13:42:09 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

13:42:25 <PhilA> MakxDekkers: I was wondering why the rush? We have a draft, we have comments. What's the difference between saying we'll publish when those comments have been addressed and leaving hte vote to next week?

Makx Dekkers: I was wondering why the rush? We have a draft, we have comments. What's the difference between saying we'll publish when those comments have been addressed and leaving the vote to next week?

13:42:43 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Because it's an FPWD, there's not a lot of difference. We can republish at any time

Hadley Beeman: Because it's an FPWD, there's not a lot of difference. We can republish at any time

13:42:48 <PhilA> MakxDekkers: So what's the rush?

Makx Dekkers: So what's the rush?

13:43:20 <gatemezi> s/hte/the
13:43:27 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: The main reason is that .... it's what the W3C would like us do. It's useful for the wider community to see that we're active and have something to show

Hadley Beeman: The main reason is that .... it's what the W3C would like us do. It's useful for the wider community to see that we're active and have something to show

13:43:34 <adler1> it is nice to deliver on time

Steven Adler: it is nice to deliver on time

13:43:50 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: That said, no one is waiting for this, no implementations will be held up

Hadley Beeman: That said, no one is waiting for this, no implementations will be held up

13:44:04 <HadleyBeeman> +1 to adler1

Hadley Beeman: +1 to adler1

13:44:18 <antoine> q+

Antoine Isaac: q+

13:44:19 <PhilA> adler1: I think we should put it in public ASAP and get it in public. it's not the end, it's a beginning. We will continue to work on it

Steven Adler: I think we should put it in public ASAP and get it in public. it's not the end, it's a beginning. We will continue to work on it

13:44:23 <PhilA> ack antoine

ack antoine

13:44:52 <PhilA> antoine: I agree with that and I think we are on the same line internally. I was wondering whether the perception will be the same outside

Antoine Isaac: I agree with that and I think we are on the same line internally. I was wondering whether the perception will be the same outside

13:44:55 <PhilA> q+

q+

13:45:07 <deirdrelee> q+

Deirdre Lee: q+

13:45:21 <HadleyBeeman> ack phil

Hadley Beeman: ack phil

13:46:00 <PhilA> adler1: We'll know when we publish

Steven Adler: We'll know when we publish

13:46:01 <HadleyBeeman> ack deirdre

Hadley Beeman: ack deirdre

13:46:28 <HadleyBeeman> Phila: Conformance isn't really an issue in a UCR.  We aren't building software here.  But Respec puts it in automatically.

Phil Archer: Conformance isn't really an issue in a UCR. We aren't building software here. But Respec puts it in automatically. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ]

13:46:31 <PhilA> PhilA: I'm expecting to remove the conformance section before publication

Phil Archer: I'm expecting to remove the conformance section before publication

13:47:20 <PhilA> deirdrelee: In relation Makx's Comment, I think I agree. It seems we're trying to rush and I don't think 1 week will make a lot of difference. We have a number of comments - it would be nice to have those addressed

Deirdre Lee: In relation Makx's Comment, I think I agree. It seems we're trying to rush and I don't think 1 week will make a lot of difference. We have a number of comments - it would be nice to have those addressed

13:47:30 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller]

13:47:57 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: You're not concerned that we'll have the same discussion next week?

Hadley Beeman: You're not concerned that we'll have the same discussion next week?

13:48:12 <PhilA> deirdrelee: I don't expect the same number of comments next week - we're getting eyes for the first time

Deirdre Lee: I don't expect the same number of comments next week - we're getting eyes for the first time

13:48:15 <antoine> q+

Antoine Isaac: q+

13:48:21 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

13:48:22 <PhilA> ack antoine

ack antoine

13:48:50 <PhilA> I'm willing to commit to deirdrelee that I won't be upset if my comments aren't addressed in the FPWD

I'm willing to commit to deirdrelee that I won't be upset if my comments aren't addressed in the FPWD

13:49:09 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller]

13:49:15 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: it sounds as if Antoine, Bart, Deirdre and Bernadette need to talk anyway

Hadley Beeman: it sounds as if Antoine, Bart, Deirdre and Bernadette need to talk anyway

13:49:28 <PhilA> ... I personally don't think that needs to be done before FPWD

... I personally don't think that needs to be done before FPWD

13:49:58 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

13:49:59 <PhilA> deirdrelee: If the vote happens, then stuff still needs to happen on the official side. ?

Deirdre Lee: If the vote happens, then stuff still needs to happen on the official side. ?

13:50:01 <adler1> +1

Steven Adler: +1

13:50:19 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: It needs a little bit of publication work. It needs to be announced to W3C membership,

Hadley Beeman: It needs a little bit of publication work. It needs to be announced to W3C membership,

13:50:26 <PhilA> PhilA: And we need to get approval for the short URI

Phil Archer: And we need to get approval for the short URI

13:51:12 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller]

13:51:22 <HadleyBeeman> PhilA: First, we only publish on Tuesdays and Thursdays.  The webmaster, Jeremy, does them then.

Phil Archer: First, we only publish on Tuesdays and Thursdays. The webmaster, Jeremy, does them then. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ]

13:51:25 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> (I am getting kicked out of skype continuously, don't know what's happening)

Joao Almeida: (I am getting kicked out of skype continuously, don't know what's happening)

13:51:55 <HadleyBeeman> … Usually, at this point, the editors would have until maybe Tuesday.  I'd work with the editors to get it through PubRules.  It would then be published on Thursday.

Hadley Beeman: … Usually, at this point, the editors would have until maybe Tuesday. I'd work with the editors to get it through PubRules. It would then be published on Thursday.

13:52:32 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

13:52:39 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, IPcaller is me

Joao Almeida: Zakim, IPcaller is me

13:52:39 <Zakim> +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it

13:52:42 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, mute me

Joao Almeida: Zakim, mute me

13:52:42 <Zakim> JoaoPauloAlmeida should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: JoaoPauloAlmeida should now be muted

13:52:47 <HadleyBeeman> … PubRules takes time. People need to do these bits, which makes it a bit vague.  Yes, there is a bit of pressure to get something out by the end of the month.

Hadley Beeman: … PubRules takes time. People need to do these bits, which makes it a bit vague. Yes, there is a bit of pressure to get something out by the end of the month.

13:53:22 <HadleyBeeman> … Discussion today to say "it will be better is next week" would also be okay.  I also understand that we could be replaying this discussion again next week.

Hadley Beeman: … Discussion today to say "it will be better is next week" would also be okay. I also understand that we could be replaying this discussion again next week.

13:54:15 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: We can vote today and you get until Tuesday to make changes

Hadley Beeman: We can vote today and you get until Tuesday to make changes

13:54:51 <adler1> I vote to vote

Steven Adler: I vote to vote

13:55:03 <Sumit> +1 to vote today

Sumit Purohit: +1 to vote today

13:55:03 <PhilA> deirdrelee: Does it matter that Bernadette isn't here?

Deirdre Lee: Does it matter that Bernadette isn't here?

13:55:14 <antoine> +1 We can vote today and you get until Tuesday to make changes

Antoine Isaac: +1 We can vote today and you get until Tuesday to make changes

13:55:15 <PhilA> deirdrelee: OK, let's vote today then

Deirdre Lee: OK, let's vote today then

13:56:03 <nathalia_> +1 to vote today

Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: +1 to vote today

13:56:15 <PhilA> Draft... To seek publication of the Use Cases & requirements Document on Thursday 5th June, following the editors' best efforts to address comments already made on the list

Draft... To seek publication of the Use Cases & requirements Document on Thursday 5th June, following the editors' best efforts to address comments already made on the list

13:56:42 <PhilA> PROPOSAL: To seek publication of the Use Cases & requirements Document on Thursday 5th June, following the editors' best efforts to address comments already made on the list

PROPOSED: To seek publication of the Use Cases & requirements Document on Thursday 5th June, following the editors' best efforts to address comments already made on the list

13:56:44 <HadleyBeeman> +1

Hadley Beeman: +1

13:56:45 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1

Bart van Leeuwen: +1

13:56:46 <antoine> +1

Antoine Isaac: +1

13:56:47 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> +1

Joao Almeida: +1

13:56:47 <Sumit> +1

Sumit Purohit: +1

13:56:48 <EricKauz> +1

Eric Kauz: +1

13:56:48 <MakxDekkers> +1

Makx Dekkers: +1

13:56:49 <deirdrelee> +1

Deirdre Lee: +1

13:56:49 <gatemezi> +1

Ghislain Atemezing: +1

13:56:58 <flavio_> +1

Flavio Yanai: +1

13:56:59 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1

13:57:08 <PhilA> RESOLVED: To seek publication of the Use Cases & requirements Document on Thursday 5th June, following the editors' best efforts to address comments already made on the list

RESOLVED: To seek publication of the Use Cases & requirements Document on Thursday 5th June, following the editors' best efforts to address comments already made on the list

13:57:09 <markharrison> +1

Mark Harrison: +1

13:57:34 <PhilA> htpp://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp-ucr/

http://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp-ucr/

13:57:38 <nathalia_> +1

Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: +1

13:57:42 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> +1

Joao Almeida: +1

13:57:43 <yaso> +1

Yaso Córdova: +1

13:57:44 <markharrison> s/htpp/http/
13:57:45 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1

Bart van Leeuwen: +1

13:57:45 <Sumit> +1

Sumit Purohit: +1

13:57:46 <adler1> +1

Steven Adler: +1

13:57:47 <deirdrelee> +1

Deirdre Lee: +1

13:57:48 <markharrison> +1

Mark Harrison: +1

13:57:52 <MakxDekkers> +1

Makx Dekkers: +1

13:57:52 <HadleyBeeman> +1

Hadley Beeman: +1

13:57:54 <antoine> +1

Antoine Isaac: +1

13:57:57 <antoine> :-)

Antoine Isaac: :-)

13:58:41 <gatemezi> +1

Ghislain Atemezing: +1

13:58:44 <newton_> +1

Newton Calegari: +1

13:58:54 <adler1> congratulations to the team on approving our first working draft

Steven Adler: congratulations to the team on approving our first working draft

13:58:58 <PhilA> Topic: Vocabularies Call

2. Vocabularies Call

13:58:59 <nathalia_> +1

Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: +1

13:59:08 <HadleyBeeman> http://doodle.com/tpp2p8fvpmchx4s4

Hadley Beeman: http://doodle.com/tpp2p8fvpmchx4s4

13:59:14 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: We've been trying to schedule this new weekly call

Hadley Beeman: We've been trying to schedule this new weekly call

13:59:40 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Who is able to fill this in and let us know when you're available

Hadley Beeman: Who is able to fill this in and let us know when you're available

13:59:45 <PhilA> q+ to talk about the Doodle

q+ to talk about the Doodle

14:00:05 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: We can reserve Zakim etc.

Hadley Beeman: We can reserve Zakim etc.

14:00:19 <PhilA> antoine: We may or may not meet every week

Antoine Isaac: We may or may not meet every week

14:00:30 <PhilA> antoine: But even if it doesn't happen every week we should reserve a single slot.

Antoine Isaac: But even if it doesn't happen every week we should reserve a single slot.

14:00:45 <adler1> me too, gotta drop

Steven Adler: me too, gotta drop

14:01:18 <HadleyBeeman> action: antoine to arrange call for vocabs from the Doodle poll and to tell the rest of the wg

ACTION: antoine to arrange call for vocabs from the Doodle poll and to tell the rest of the wg

14:01:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-44 - Arrange call for vocabs from the doodle poll and to tell the rest of the wg [on Antoine Isaac - due 2014-06-06].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-44 - Arrange call for vocabs from the doodle poll and to tell the rest of the wg [on Antoine Isaac - due 2014-06-06].

14:01:19 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Thanks all

Hadley Beeman: Thanks all

14:01:21 <adler1> ciao

Steven Adler: ciao

14:01:23 <BartvanLeeuwen> bye

Bart van Leeuwen: bye

14:01:26 <Zakim> -BartvanLeeuwen

Zakim IRC Bot: -BartvanLeeuwen

14:01:27 <Zakim> -adler1

Zakim IRC Bot: -adler1

14:01:28 <nathalia_> bye

Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: bye

14:01:31 <gatemezi> bye!

Ghislain Atemezing: bye!

14:01:32 <Zakim> -sumit

Zakim IRC Bot: -sumit

14:01:32 <yaso> Bye!

Yaso Córdova: Bye!

14:01:34 <Zakim> -EricKauz

Zakim IRC Bot: -EricKauz

14:01:34 <Zakim> -PhilA

Zakim IRC Bot: -PhilA

14:01:35 <Zakim> -HadleyBeeman

Zakim IRC Bot: -HadleyBeeman

14:01:35 <Zakim> -antoine

Zakim IRC Bot: -antoine

14:01:36 <Zakim> -deirdrelee

Zakim IRC Bot: -deirdrelee

14:01:37 <Zakim> -markharrison

Zakim IRC Bot: -markharrison

14:01:39 <markharrison> bye!

Mark Harrison: bye!

14:01:40 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Thanks Bernadette and Deirdre

Hadley Beeman: Thanks Bernadette and Deirdre

14:01:41 <Zakim> -Yaso

Zakim IRC Bot: -Yaso

14:01:48 <Zakim> -JoaoPauloAlmeida

Zakim IRC Bot: -JoaoPauloAlmeida

14:01:49 <Zakim> -Makx_Dekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: -Makx_Dekkers

14:01:49 <Zakim> DATA_DWBP()9:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: DATA_DWBP()9:00AM has ended

14:01:50 <Zakim> Attendees were sumit, BartvanLeeuwen, PhilA, deirdrelee, EricKauz, JoaoPauloAlmeida, newton, antoine, HadleyBeeman, adler1, flavio, +44.122.374.aaaa, markharrison,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were sumit, BartvanLeeuwen, PhilA, deirdrelee, EricKauz, JoaoPauloAlmeida, newton, antoine, HadleyBeeman, adler1, flavio, +44.122.374.aaaa, markharrison,

14:01:50 <Zakim> ... JoaoPauloAlmeida_, Makx_Dekkers, Caroline, nathalia, vagner, nathalia_

Zakim IRC Bot: ... JoaoPauloAlmeida_, Makx_Dekkers, Caroline, nathalia, vagner, nathalia_



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