Meeting Record

DPUB IG F2F second day, 2015-10-30, Sapporo

Minutes of 29 October 2015

Agenda

https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/DPUB-ARIA_Agenda

Present

Tzviya Siegman, Karen Myers, Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi, Charles LaPierre, Dave Cramer, Heather Flanagan, Jeff Xu, Shinyu Murakami, Richard Ishida, Unknown Takeshi_Kanai, Unknown Felix_Sasaki, Unknown

Chair

Tzviya Siegman

Scribe

Unknown fsasaki, Tzviya Siegman, Unknown brady_duga, Dave Cramer, Heather Flanagan

IRC Log

Original

Resolutions

None.

Topics

education and outreach
Identifiers
Housekeeping

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23:31:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-dpub-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-dpub-irc ←

23:31:33 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public

Ivan Herman: rrsagent, set log public ←

23:31:50 <ivan> RRSAgent, this meeting spans midnight

Ivan Herman: RRSAgent, this meeting spans midnight ←

23:32:12 <ivan> Meeting: DPUB IG F2F second day, 2015-10-30, Sapporo

23:32:17 <ivan> Chair: Tzviya

23:33:10 <ivan> Present+ Tzviya_Siegman, Karen_Myers, Yoshii_Jun-ichi, Charles_LaPierre, Dave_Cramer, Heather_Flanagan, Jeff_Xu

Ivan Herman: Present+ Tzviya_Siegman, Karen_Myers, Yoshii_Jun-ichi, Charles_LaPierre, Dave_Cramer, Heather_Flanagan, Jeff_Xu ←

23:33:31 <ivan> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Oct_2015_F2F_Logistics_and_Details#Second_day_.2830_Oct.29

23:33:39 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Oct_2015_F2F_Logistics_and_Details#Second_day_.2830_Oct.29

Ivan Herman: ivan has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Oct_2015_F2F_Logistics_and_Details#Second_day_.2830_Oct.29 ←

23:51:06 <ivan> Present+ Shinyu_Murakami, Richard_Ishida

(No events recorded for 17 minutes)

Ivan Herman: Present+ Shinyu_Murakami, Richard_Ishida ←

23:51:35 <ivan> Present+ Takeshi_Kanai

Ivan Herman: Present+ Takeshi_Kanai ←

00:00:38 <jeff_xu> need to leave earlier today at about 15:00 right after ARIA session

Jeff Xu: need to leave earlier today at about 15:00 right after ARIA session ←

00:02:39 <ivan> Present+ Felix_Sasaki, Brady_Duga, Georg_Riem, Johannes_Wilm

Ivan Herman: Present+ Felix_Sasaki, Brady_Duga, Georg_Riem, Johannes_Wilm ←

00:02:50 <LarsG_> present+ LarsG

Scribe problem: the name 'LarsG_' does not match any of the 102 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Amine Abidi Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Benjamin Young Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Florian Rivoal Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Barreto Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Noel Tanner Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown LarsG_: present+ LarsG ←

00:02:51 <ivan> zakim, who is here?

Ivan Herman: zakim, who is here? ←

00:02:51 <Zakim> Present: Tzviya_Siegman, Karen_Myers, Yoshii_Jun-ichi, Charles_LaPierre, Dave_Cramer, Heather_Flanagan, Jeff_Xu, Shinyu_Murakami, Richard_Ishida, Takeshi_Kanai, Felix_Sasaki,

Scribe problem: the name 'Yoshii_Jun-ichi' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Amine Abidi Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Benjamin Young Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Florian Rivoal Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Barreto Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Noel Tanner Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo

Scribe problem: the name 'Takeshi_Kanai' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Amine Abidi Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Benjamin Young Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Florian Rivoal Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Barreto Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Noel Tanner Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo

Scribe problem: the name 'Felix_Sasaki' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Amine Abidi Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Benjamin Young Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Florian Rivoal Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Barreto Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Noel Tanner Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo

Scribe problem: the name '' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Amine Abidi Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Benjamin Young Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Florian Rivoal Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Barreto Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Noel Tanner Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo

00:02:54 <Zakim> ... Brady_Duga, Georg_Riem, Johannes_Wilm, LarsG

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Brady_Duga, Georg_Riem, Johannes_Wilm, LarsG ←

00:02:54 <Zakim> On IRC I see Bert1, LarsG_, johanneswilm, Florian, brady_duga, sam, clapierre, LarsG, baba, ShaneM, shigeya, RRSAgent, jeff_xu, Zakim, tzviya, HeatherF, Karen, shepazu, Ralph,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Bert1, LarsG_, johanneswilm, Florian, brady_duga, sam, clapierre, LarsG, baba, ShaneM, shigeya, RRSAgent, jeff_xu, Zakim, tzviya, HeatherF, Karen, shepazu, Ralph, ←

00:02:54 <Zakim> ... ivan, rego, liam, JakeA, fantasai, hober, nikos, leaverou_away, bigbluehat, plinss, astearns, iank, Bert, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: ... ivan, rego, liam, JakeA, fantasai, hober, nikos, leaverou_away, bigbluehat, plinss, astearns, iank, Bert, trackbot ←

00:04:17 <ivan> Present+ Lars_Svensson

Scribe problem: the name 'ivan' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ivan: Present+ Lars_Svensson ←

00:05:50 <ivan> zakim, who is here?

Unknown ivan: zakim, who is here? ←

00:05:50 <Zakim> Present: Tzviya_Siegman, Karen_Myers, Yoshii_Jun-ichi, Charles_LaPierre, Dave_Cramer, Heather_Flanagan, Jeff_Xu, Shinyu_Murakami, Richard_Ishida, Takeshi_Kanai, Felix_Sasaki,

00:05:53 <Zakim> ... Brady_Duga, Georg_Riem, Johannes_Wilm, LarsG, Lars_Svensson

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Brady_Duga, Georg_Riem, Johannes_Wilm, LarsG, Lars_Svensson ←

00:05:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see murakami, takeshi, LarsG, johanneswilm, Florian, brady_duga, sam, clapierre, baba, ShaneM, shigeya, RRSAgent, jeff_xu, Zakim, tzviya, HeatherF, Karen, shepazu, Ralph,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see murakami, takeshi, LarsG, johanneswilm, Florian, brady_duga, sam, clapierre, baba, ShaneM, shigeya, RRSAgent, jeff_xu, Zakim, tzviya, HeatherF, Karen, shepazu, Ralph, ←

00:05:53 <Zakim> ... ivan, rego, liam, JakeA, fantasai, hober, nikos, leaverou_away, bigbluehat, plinss, astearns, iank, Bert, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: ... ivan, rego, liam, JakeA, fantasai, hober, nikos, leaverou_away, bigbluehat, plinss, astearns, iank, Bert, trackbot ←

00:06:37 <ivan> Present+ Takao_Baba

Unknown ivan: Present+ Takao_Baba ←

00:07:44 <fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki

Scribe problem: the name 'fsasaki' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

(Scribe set to Unknown fsasaki)

00:07:50 <ivan> scribenick: fsasaki

00:07:52 <fsasaki> topic: education and outreach

1. education and outreach

00:08:14 <fsasaki> karen presenting on education and outreach

karen presenting on education and outreach ←

00:08:34 <fsasaki> karen: now more information on kodansha, one of the largest japanese publishers

Karen Myers: now more information on kodansha, one of the largest japanese publishers ←

00:09:42 <fsasaki> junichi: there are about 25 japanese publishers sharing the market

Scribe problem: the name 'junichi' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown junichi: there are about 25 japanese publishers sharing the market ←

00:09:53 <fsasaki> ... big publishing areas like books and mangas

... big publishing areas like books and mangas ←

00:10:02 <fsasaki> ... epub 3.0 did not work for manga publishing

... epub 3.0 did not work for manga publishing ←

00:10:20 <fsasaki> ... 3.1 helped with that

... 3.1 helped with that ←

00:10:34 <fsasaki> ... but it is also a kind of headache since there are changes again

... but it is also a kind of headache since there are changes again ←

00:10:59 <fsasaki> ... there is lot of interested epubweb and related initatives

... there is lot of interested epubweb and related initatives ←

00:11:06 <fsasaki> ... have worked on publishing for a long time

... have worked on publishing for a long time ←

00:11:15 <fsasaki> ... /me probably

... /me probably ←

00:11:33 <fsasaki> ... a great pleasure to be in this group and being able to discuss these items

... a great pleasure to be in this group and being able to discuss these items ←

00:11:54 <fsasaki> [scribe comment: above "3.1" may actually menat to be 3.01]

[scribe comment: above "3.0.1" may actually menat to be 3.01] ←

00:12:12 <fsasaki> karen: we made progress in meeting with editorial boards of major publishers in the US

Karen Myers: we made progress in meeting with editorial boards of major publishers in the US ←

00:12:24 <fsasaki> ... publishers weekly, publishers perspective, digital bookworld

... publishers weekly, publishers perspective, digital bookworld ←

00:12:34 <fsasaki> ... they all would like to hear from us and want content on a regular basis

... they all would like to hear from us and want content on a regular basis ←

00:12:43 <fsasaki> ... challenge is that we don't have enough people to have content

... challenge is that we don't have enough people to have content ←

00:12:56 <fsasaki> ... wondering if any of you want to be an author for some of those publications

... wondering if any of you want to be an author for some of those publications ←

00:13:07 <fsasaki> ... we also have the w3c blog, the w3c digital publishing page

... we also have the w3c blog, the w3c digital publishing page ←

00:13:10 <tzviya> s/3.1/3.0.1

00:13:14 <HeatherF> q+

Heather Flanagan: q+ ←

00:13:24 <fsasaki> ... and the IDPF would welcome shared information for some fo the work that we are doing together

... and the IDPF would welcome shared information for some fo the work that we are doing together ←

00:13:35 <tzviya> ack hea

Tzviya Siegman: ack hea ←

00:13:42 <fsasaki> ... we might encourage participation today and find out topics your task forces would like to advance

... we might encourage participation today and find out topics your task forces would like to advance ←

00:13:53 <fsasaki> heatherF: what type of content are you looking for?

Heather Flanagan: what type of content are you looking for? ←

00:14:06 <tzviya> q+ to talk about blogging publication

Tzviya Siegman: q+ to talk about blogging publication ←

00:14:15 <fsasaki> karen: looking into introductory piece about the work w3c and ipdf do together

Karen Myers: looking into introductory piece about the work w3c and ipdf do together ←

00:14:26 <fsasaki> ... then specific items on accessibility, stem etc. - the task forces

... then specific items on accessibility, stem etc. - the task forces ←

00:14:35 <fsasaki> ... not only the "what" but also the "why"

... not only the "what" but also the "why" ←

00:14:51 <fsasaki> ... they want to have a regular cadance on the issues we are working on

... they want to have a regular cadance on the issues we are working on ←

00:14:59 <fsasaki> ... small pieces are ok 500 words or less

... small pieces are ok 500 words or less ←

00:15:13 <fsasaki> ... if more people are able to contribute on a regular basis we can have the w3c presence more often

... if more people are able to contribute on a regular basis we can have the w3c presence more often ←

00:15:18 <tzviya> ack tzv

Tzviya Siegman: ack tzv ←

00:15:18 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to talk about blogging publication

Zakim IRC Bot: tzviya, you wanted to talk about blogging publication ←

00:15:31 <fsasaki> tzviya: ivan, karen and I spoke about this yesterday

Tzviya Siegman: ivan, karen and I spoke about this yesterday ←

00:15:51 <fsasaki> ... in some of the other groups, when there is a publication, there is the rule that there is a blog post

... in some of the other groups, when there is a publication, there is the rule that there is a blog post ←

00:16:12 <fsasaki> .... that is somebody has to write it, and then you become comfortable with blog posts

.... that is somebody has to write it, and then you become comfortable with blog posts ←

00:16:21 <fsasaki> ... it seems like another task but we can put that togehter

... it seems like another task but we can put that together ←

00:16:29 <fsasaki> s/togehter/together/

00:16:45 <fsasaki> tzviya: just created a draft post took 10 minutes

Tzviya Siegman: just created a draft post took 10 minutes ←

00:16:57 <fsasaki> ... minutes are important but we need more on the blog

... minutes are important but we need more on the blog ←

00:17:07 <fsasaki> ... if we do something interesting let's talk about it

... if we do something interesting let's talk about it ←

00:17:50 <fsasaki> ... did you play werewolf? write about it

... did you play werewolf? write about it ←

00:17:58 <fsasaki> ... we are serious but we also have fun

... we are serious but we also have fun ←

00:18:24 <fsasaki> @@: can write personal things in my blog post

Scribe problem: the name 'duga' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown duga: can write personal things in my blog post ←

00:18:33 <tzviya> s/@@/duga

00:18:40 <fsasaki> ... nothing I would have to clear with the company

... nothing I would have to clear with the company ←

00:18:42 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

00:19:02 <fsasaki> tzviya: can talk about great meeting we had with i18n

Tzviya Siegman: can talk about great meeting we had with i18n ←

00:19:27 <fsasaki> karen: we are missing rest of the world - what are the other outlets that are valuable?

Karen Myers: we are missing rest of the world - what are the other outlets that are valuable? ←

00:19:44 <fsasaki> ... where do you think we should reach out to that would be important for the publishing industry in japan

... where do you think we should reach out to that would be important for the publishing industry in japan ←

00:20:02 <fsasaki> ... are there publications or blogs that you read reguarly?

... are there publications or blogs that you read reguarly? ←

00:20:18 <fsasaki> @@: joined japanese meetup last sunday

Jeff Xu: joined japanese meetup last sunday ←

00:20:25 <fsasaki> ... we need to work on more communication

... we need to work on more communication ←

00:20:32 <fsasaki> ... we are a technical vendord

... we are a technical vendor ←

00:20:51 <fsasaki> ... we need to translate the publisher language to w3c language

... we need to translate the publisher language to w3c language ←

00:20:56 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

00:21:06 <LarsG> s/vendord/vendor/

00:21:07 <fsasaki> ... hope that we can build such a channel for publishers requirements

... hope that we can build such a channel for publishers requirements ←

00:21:27 <fsasaki> ... we can broadcast then items to the broadcaster

... we can broadcast then items to the broadcaster ←

00:21:38 <tzviya> s/@@/jeff_xu

00:21:44 <fsasaki> karen: would you be willing to work with us on this?

Karen Myers: would you be willing to work with us on this? ←

00:21:46 <takeshi> q+

Unknown Takeshi_Kanai: q+ ←

00:21:48 <fsasaki> jeff_xu: sure

Jeff Xu: sure ←

00:21:57 <fsasaki> karen: web sites, blogs, journals, ...

Karen Myers: web sites, blogs, journals, ... ←

00:22:11 <tzviya> ack takeshi

Tzviya Siegman: ack takeshi ←

00:22:18 <fsasaki> jeff_xu: I'll start from informal communication, then look into more official channel

Jeff Xu: I'll start from informal communication, then look into more official channel ←

00:22:37 <fsasaki> takeshi: I have some concern to focus on publishers too much

Unknown Takeshi_Kanai: I have some concern to focus on publishers too much ←

00:22:46 <fsasaki> ... the publishers experience is based on printing

... the publishers experience is based on printing ←

00:22:56 <fsasaki> ... most of the publishers will say: content will start from upper right

... most of the publishers will say: content will start from upper right ←

00:23:05 <fsasaki> ... but the web site will start from left up

... but the web site will start from left up ←

00:23:11 <fsasaki> ... even if content is written vertical

... even if content is written vertical ←

00:23:21 <fsasaki> .... that is because the design is important for the web designers

.... that is because the design is important for the web designers ←

00:23:30 <fsasaki> ... works for japanese and translated web content

... works for japanese and translated web content ←

00:23:48 <fsasaki> ... there are no publication features designed both for japanese layout and translated english content

... there are no publication features designed both for japanese layout and translated english content ←

00:23:56 <fsasaki> ... need to get the japanese web designer on board!

... need to get the japanese web designer on board! ←

00:24:23 <fsasaki> tzviya: communication between web designers and publishers is very important

Tzviya Siegman: communication between web designers and publishers is very important ←

00:24:24 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

00:24:38 <fsasaki> takeshi: web designers do what is available in web standards

Unknown Takeshi_Kanai: web designers do what is available in web standards ←

00:24:48 <fsasaki> ... designers just accept the current situation

... designers just accept the current situation ←

00:24:57 <baba> q+

Scribe problem: the name 'baba' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown baba: q+ ←

00:25:00 <fsasaki> q+

q+ ←

00:25:04 <fsasaki> q-

q- ←

00:25:15 <fsasaki> jeff_xu: we need to involve more creators

Jeff Xu: we need to involve more creators ←

00:25:26 <fsasaki> ... who work with css, vertical writing mode etc.

... who work with css, vertical writing mode etc. ←

00:25:34 <tzviya> ack baba

Tzviya Siegman: ack baba ←

00:25:47 <tzviya> http://ebpaj.jp/

Tzviya Siegman: http://ebpaj.jp/ ←

00:25:50 <fsasaki> baba: I posted URI of ebpaj in japan

Unknown baba: I posted URI of ebpaj in japan ←

00:26:13 <fsasaki> ... most of japanese publishers like kodansha and others are member of this association

... most of japanese publishers like kodansha and others are member of this association ←

00:26:26 <fsasaki> karen: so this would be a good way to reach developers?

Karen Myers: so this would be a good way to reach developers? ←

00:26:35 <fsasaki> baba: they make epub templates of japanese publishing

Unknown baba: they make epub templates of japanese publishing ←

00:26:49 <fsasaki> ... allmost all publishers including small publishers use the templates used by ebpaj

... allmost all publishers including small publishers use the templates used by ebpaj ←

00:26:51 <ivan> q+

Unknown ivan: q+ ←

00:26:53 <shigeya> EBPAJ = The Electric Book Publishers Association Japan

Scribe problem: the name 'shigeya' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown shigeya: EBPAJ = The Electric Book Publishers Association Japan ←

00:27:02 <fsasaki> ... they have some opinion on epub specs

... they have some opinion on epub specs ←

00:27:29 <fsasaki> q+

q+ ←

00:27:31 <ivan> Present+ Shigeya_Suzuki

Unknown ivan: Present+ Shigeya_Suzuki ←

00:27:47 <fsasaki> baba: sometimes I talk to members of these association and they say: epub should do ...

Unknown baba: sometimes I talk to members of these association and they say: epub should do ... ←

00:28:03 <fsasaki> ... I am not member of this

... I am not member of this ←

00:28:33 <fsasaki> junichi: japanese publishing industry could adopt epub 3

Unknown junichi: japanese publishing industry could adopt epub 3 ←

00:28:49 <fsasaki> ... and standardize and "japanese" spec to small and medium sized company

... and standardize and "japanese" spec to small and medium sized company ←

00:29:22 <fsasaki> ... various people do a great job of translating epub 3 spec for the japanese book and printing industry

... various people do a great job of translating epub 3 spec for the japanese book and printing industry ←

00:29:39 <fsasaki> ... but we need more production side people of japanese industry

... but we need more production side people of japanese industry ←

00:29:46 <fsasaki> ... publishers are so small and slized

... publishers are so small and slized ←

00:29:58 <fsasaki> ... there is toppan insatsu, other big companies

... there is toppan insatsu, other big companies ←

00:30:06 <fsasaki> ... they are capable of taking up things

... they are capable of taking up things ←

00:30:29 <fsasaki> ... we have to touch distribution and platform people and engage them in w3c

... we have to touch distribution and platform people and engage them in w3c ←

00:30:57 <fsasaki> ... epubweb is accceptable for me

... epubweb is accceptable for me ←

00:31:07 <fsasaki> ... but publishers are concerned about backward compatibility

... but publishers are concerned about backward compatibility ←

00:31:49 <fsasaki> ... if it is a guranetee that epub will stay back ward compatibly, and also a new version that would be great

... if it is a guranetee that epub will stay back ward compatibly, and also a new version that would be great ←

00:32:07 <fsasaki> tzviya: just to clarify: this group is not doing a new standardization of epub

Tzviya Siegman: just to clarify: this group is not doing a new standardization of epub ←

00:32:16 <fsasaki> ... we are not addressing backward compatibility

... we are not addressing backward compatibility ←

00:32:31 <fsasaki> ... some of things that we are supporting is addressing IDPF

... some of things that we are supporting is addressing IDPF ←

00:32:43 <fsasaki> ... e.g. in the area of identifiers

... e.g. in the area of identifiers ←

00:33:02 <fsasaki> ... the work we are doing here takes backward compatility into account

... the work we are doing here takes backward compatility into account ←

00:33:07 <tzviya> ack ivan

Tzviya Siegman: ack ivan ←

00:33:12 <fsasaki> ... css layout is a great concern for vertical writing

... css layout is a great concern for vertical writing ←

00:33:14 <Karen> q?

Karen Myers: q? ←

00:33:36 <fsasaki> ivan: EBPAJ is very important to fit another contact

Unknown ivan: EBPAJ is very important to fit another contact ←

00:33:49 <fsasaki> ... e.g. german börsenverein, german equivalent etc.

... e.g. german börsenverein, german equivalent etc. ←

00:34:00 <fsasaki> q-

q- ←

00:34:07 <fsasaki> ivan: page is kind of a blog

Unknown ivan: page is kind of a blog ←

00:34:46 <fsasaki> .. it seems. my question: can japanese colleagues at keio help to translate blog?

.. it seems. my question: can japanese colleagues at keio help to translate blog? ←

00:34:55 <fsasaki> ... that is to use the office and host network we have?

... that is to use the office and host network we have? ←

00:34:55 <fsasaki> q+

q+ ←

00:35:26 <fsasaki> ivan: would be quite challenging to do that on our own

Unknown ivan: would be quite challenging to do that on our own ←

00:35:51 <fsasaki> ... e.g. can sam or others can see if we can give blogs on side xyz?

... e.g. can sam or others can see if we can give blogs on side xyz? ←

00:36:08 <fsasaki> ... the blog we are talking about is for portable web application

... the blog we are talking about is for portable web application ←

00:36:10 <tzviya> some english info from EBPAJ: http://ebpaj.jp/counsel/guide

Tzviya Siegman: some english info from EBPAJ: http://ebpaj.jp/counsel/guide ←

00:36:14 <fsasaki> ... have that translated in japan

... have that translated in japan ←

00:36:32 <fsasaki> tzviya: we should expand our request to our membership

Tzviya Siegman: we should expand our request to our membership ←

00:36:35 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

00:37:03 <fsasaki> ivan: yes, for the people who are providing information to publishers

Unknown ivan: yes, for the people who are providing information to publishers ←

00:37:15 <fsasaki> karen: we are working on building an infrastructure for dissemination

Karen Myers: we are working on building an infrastructure for dissemination ←

00:37:22 <fsasaki> .. working with our offices

.. working with our offices ←

00:37:48 <fsasaki> ... we have a platform, providing info about who to reach out to for what topic

... we have a platform, providing info about who to reach out to for what topic ←

00:37:57 <tzviya> ack fs

Tzviya Siegman: ack fs ←

00:38:40 <tzviya> scribenick: tzviya

(Scribe set to Tzviya Siegman)

00:39:10 <tzviya> fsasaki: maybe these organizations would like to do the transalations themselves

Unknown fsasaki: maybe these organizations would like to do the transalations themselves ←

00:39:29 <tzviya> scribenick: fsasaki

(Scribe set to Unknown fsasaki)

00:39:53 <fsasaki> ivan: agree, the offices or hosts can be a conduit to these organizations

Unknown ivan: agree, the offices or hosts can be a conduit to these organizations ←

00:40:11 <fsasaki> ivan: about what takeshi said - relationship between publishers and web designers is not only a japanese issue

Unknown ivan: about what takeshi said - relationship between publishers and web designers is not only a japanese issue ←

00:40:24 <fsasaki> ... publishers have long time experience of presenting

... publishers have long time experience of presenting ←

00:40:55 <fsasaki> ... sometimes wish that web sites would be as good layouted as publications

... sometimes wish that web sites would be as good layouted as publications ←

00:41:09 <fsasaki> ... believe me takeshi that this is not only a japanese problem

... believe me takeshi that this is not only a japanese problem ←

00:41:27 <fsasaki> tzviya: various organisations work around the world

Tzviya Siegman: various organisations work around the world ←

00:41:45 <fsasaki> ... conversion houses, printers, ... these are the organisations producing ebooks around the world

... conversion houses, printers, ... these are the organisations producing ebooks around the world ←

00:42:00 <fsasaki> ... even amazon is using them!

... even amazon is using them! ←

00:42:30 <fsasaki> karen: we have both technical information to distribute, but also business messages on trends, issues etc.

Karen Myers: we have both technical information to distribute, but also business messages on trends, issues etc. ←

00:43:21 <fsasaki> ivan: should this also be raised at next offices meeting?

Unknown ivan: should this also be raised at next offices meeting? ←

00:43:22 <fsasaki> karen: sure

Karen Myers: sure ←

00:44:19 <fsasaki> ivan: I did not thing about that aspect previously, whether they are interested in more information

Unknown ivan: I did not thing about that aspect previously, whether they are interested in more information ←

00:44:36 <fsasaki> felix: think these organizations would love to distribute content

Unknown Felix_Sasaki: think these organizations would love to distribute content ←

00:45:00 <fsasaki> karen: we need to involve people in creating webinars

Karen Myers: we need to involve people in creating webinars ←

00:45:21 <fsasaki> ... we could do general, vision like, css, i18n, aria, accessiiblity etc.

... we could do general, vision like, css, i18n, aria, accessibility etc. ←

00:45:33 <fsasaki> ... it takes some time including getting permission from your company

... it takes some time including getting permission from your company ←

00:45:44 <fsasaki> ... others are doing marketing  - we provide the content

... others are doing marketing - we provide the content ←

00:45:54 <fsasaki> ... so is a webinar interesting for your to participate in?

... so is a webinar interesting for your to participate in? ←

00:46:08 <LarsG> s/accessiiblity/accessibility/

00:46:13 <fsasaki> tzviya: a first webinar can remind people that we exist

Tzviya Siegman: a first webinar can remind people that we exist ←

00:46:22 <fsasaki> ... who are we, what do we do, do you know w3c?

... who are we, what do we do, do you know w3c? ←

00:46:33 <clapierre> q+

Charles LaPierre: q+ ←

00:46:42 <fsasaki> ... then with more technical work we have done, css, esp. related to publishing

... then with more technical work we have done, css, esp. related to publishing ←

00:46:54 <fsasaki> ... talking about great tricks you can do to make your ebooks better

... talking about great tricks you can do to make your ebooks better ←

00:47:10 <fsasaki> ... we need to mindful about doing this jointly with IDPF

... we need to mindful about doing this jointly with IDPF ←

00:47:24 <fsasaki> ... we don't want to create a webinar about how to create an ebook

... we don't want to create a webinar about how to create an ebook ←

00:47:26 <fsasaki> ivan: agree

Unknown ivan: agree ←

00:47:42 <fsasaki> ... for this type of messaging a clear synchronization with IDPF is important

... for this type of messaging a clear synchronization with IDPF is important ←

00:47:52 <HeatherF> q+

Heather Flanagan: q+ ←

00:47:53 <tzviya> ack cl

Tzviya Siegman: ack cl ←

00:48:06 <fsasaki> ... we want to be clear that we will not take IDPFs place

... we want to be clear that we will not take IDPFs place ←

00:48:16 <fsasaki> charles: will be on panels

Charles LaPierre: will be on panels ←

00:48:22 <fsasaki> ... on accessibility and mathML

... on accessibility and mathML ←

00:48:34 <fsasaki> ... and will be on panel on csun on accessibility and mathML

... and will be on panel on csun on accessibility and mathML ←

00:48:52 <fsasaki> tzviya: we should just touch base about what we do with karen

Tzviya Siegman: we should just touch base about what we do with karen ←

00:48:55 <tzviya> ack heather

Tzviya Siegman: ack heather ←

00:49:11 <fsasaki> karen: yes, conferences is also another ecosystem we want to address

Karen Myers: yes, conferences is also another ecosystem we want to address ←

00:49:17 <fsasaki> heather: I hate webinars

Heather Flanagan: I hate webinars ←

00:49:30 <fsasaki> ... I have a hard time to understand who are the target audiences

... I have a hard time to understand who are the target audiences ←

00:49:41 <fsasaki> ... one is the mgmt in publishing, more high level

... one is the mgmt in publishing, more high level ←

00:49:54 <fsasaki> ... then there is more technical area, update on work that we are doing

... then there is more technical area, update on work that we are doing ←

00:50:07 <fsasaki> ... new resources, educational outreach for a more technical audience

... new resources, educational outreach for a more technical audience ←

00:50:27 <fsasaki> tzviya: may be hard to get a c-level audience to watch a webinar

Tzviya Siegman: may be hard to get a c-level audience to watch a webinar ←

00:50:34 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

00:50:52 <fsasaki> karen: no, would not be c- level publishing. for c- level we are looking into a c- level event, working with jeff and bill on that

Karen Myers: no, would not be c- level publishing. for c- level we are looking into a c- level event, working with jeff and bill on that ←

00:51:12 <fsasaki> ... back to events - what are the events you think are important

... back to events - what are the events you think are important ←

00:51:15 <clapierre> q+

Charles LaPierre: q+ ←

00:51:25 <tzviya> ack cl

Tzviya Siegman: ack cl ←

00:51:33 <fsasaki> charles: in march there is csun

Charles LaPierre: in march there is csun ←

00:51:57 <fsasaki> ... one of the biggest disability conferences, a week long conference on disabilty

... one of the biggest disability conferences, a week long conference on dissability ←

00:52:15 <fsasaki> s/disabilty/dissability/

00:52:24 <fsasaki> karen: is that always in california?

Karen Myers: is that always in california? ←

00:52:33 <fsasaki> charles: yes, in last 3-4 years has been in san diego

Charles LaPierre: yes, in last 3-4 years has been in san diego ←

00:52:47 <fsasaki> ivan: the WAI team is always present

Unknown ivan: the WAI team is always present ←

00:53:13 <fsasaki> tzviya: there is ebook craft in toronoto, that is run by book net canada

Tzviya Siegman: there is ebook craft in toronoto, that is run by book net canada ←

00:53:40 <fsasaki> ... look of people involved in ebook development

... look of people involved in ebook development ←

00:53:49 <clapierre> http://www.csun.edu/cod/conference/2016/sessions/

Charles LaPierre: http://www.csun.edu/cod/conference/2016/sessions/ ←

00:54:08 <fsasaki> ivan: local publishers association have their information

Unknown ivan: local publishers association have their information ←

00:54:15 <clapierre> CSUN March 21-26 2016 in San Diego CA

Charles LaPierre: CSUN March 21-26 2016 in San Diego CA ←

00:54:33 <tzviya> ebookcraft http://www.booknetcanada.ca/ebookcraft/

Tzviya Siegman: ebookcraft http://www.booknetcanada.ca/ebookcraft/ ←

00:54:47 <tzviya> q/

Tzviya Siegman: / ←

00:54:54 <tzviya> s/q//

00:54:57 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

00:54:58 <clapierre> q+

Charles LaPierre: q+ ←

00:55:01 <fsasaki> ... probably somebody should be at these events - maybe not me; I then would be in the french event

... probably somebody should be at these events - maybe not me; I then would be in the french event ←

00:55:08 <fsasaki> ... issue is sometimes to have the info

... issue is sometimes to have the info ←

00:55:41 <fsasaki> tzviya: IDPF had its event last year, doing it again this year

Tzviya Siegman: IDPF had its event last year, doing it again this year ←

00:55:51 <tzviya> ack cl

Tzviya Siegman: ack cl ←

00:55:53 <fsasaki> ivan: IDPF also wants to have an evetn in paris

Unknown ivan: IDPF also wants to have an event in paris ←

00:56:01 <fsasaki> s/evetn/event/

00:56:15 <fsasaki> charles: do we have a twitter account?

Charles LaPierre: do we have a twitter account? ←

00:56:29 <fsasaki> karen: we have w3c account http://twitter.com/w3c

Karen Myers: we have w3c account http://twitter.com/w3c ←

00:56:37 <fsasaki> .. using #dpub hashtag

.. using #dpub hashtag ←

00:56:49 <fsasaki> ivan: I am twitter reader mostly

Unknown ivan: I am twitter reader mostly ←

00:57:06 <fsasaki> karen: what about library community?

Karen Myers: what about library community? ←

00:57:30 <fsasaki> sven: american libraries association event

Scribe problem: the name 'lars' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown lars: american libraries association event ←

00:57:40 <fsasaki> ... then IFLA conference, always in august

... then IFLA conference, always in august ←

00:57:50 <fsasaki> ... between 3-4 thousand participants

... between 3-4 thousand participants ←

00:57:59 <fsasaki> ... including c-level people from libaries

... including c-level people from libaries ←

00:58:24 <fsasaki> ... having special sessions like assecibiliaty, long term preservation, information acess (where I am in), preservation

... having special sessions like assecibiliaty, long term preservation, information technology (where I am in), preservation ←

00:58:33 <fsasaki> ... the next one is augst 13-18 in columbus ohia

... the next one is august 13-18 in columbus ohio ←

00:58:43 <fsasaki> s/ohia/ohio/

00:58:51 <fsasaki> ... these are the two main events

... these are the two main events ←

00:59:02 <fsasaki> ivan: what is profile of dublin core these days?

Unknown ivan: what is profile of dublin core these days? ←

00:59:13 <fsasaki> s/sven/lars/

00:59:17 <fsasaki> lars: metadata

Unknown lars: metadata ←

00:59:22 <fsasaki> ... not sure about details

... not sure about details ←

00:59:29 <fsasaki> ... in that community

... in that community ←

00:59:40 <fsasaki> karen: what about annotations?

Karen Myers: what about annotations? ←

00:59:47 <tzviya> http://www.sspnet.org/

Tzviya Siegman: http://www.sspnet.org/ ←

00:59:50 <fsasaki> ivan: may be hard for library community at the moment

Unknown ivan: may be hard for library community at the moment ←

01:00:06 <fsasaki> tzviya: event in june, see link, we should be there

Tzviya Siegman: event in june, see link, we should be there ←

01:00:20 <fsasaki> karen: in asia? some large publishing events?

Karen Myers: in asia? some large publishing events? ←

01:00:44 <fsasaki> ivan: there is chinese publishers event - I will find out next week

Unknown ivan: there is chinese publishers event - I will find out next week ←

01:00:51 <fsasaki> ... there are big conferences

... there are big conferences ←

01:01:03 <fsasaki> ... problem is that chinese publishers are in their own world

... problem is that chinese publishers are in their own world ←

01:01:10 <fsasaki> ... there are very much in their own silo

... there are very much in their own silo ←

01:01:23 <fsasaki> ... bill has been there several times, I'll go next week - we'll see

... bill has been there several times, I'll go next week - we'll see ←

01:01:40 <fsasaki> ... India is next item - a lot of things happening here

... India is next item - a lot of things happening here ←

01:01:47 <fsasaki> ... pryanka was at one of those events

... pryanka was at one of those events ←

01:01:53 <fsasaki> karen: I'll check with her

Karen Myers: I'll check with her ←

01:01:58 <murakami> http://www.bookfair.jp/en/

Shinyu Murakami: http://www.bookfair.jp/en/ ←

01:02:10 <LarsG> s/information acess/information technology/

01:02:11 <fsasaki> murakamia: toko international bookfair

Shinyu Murakami: Tokyo international bookfair ←

01:02:12 <tzviya> london book fair, Frankfurt Book Fair

Tzviya Siegman: london book fair, Frankfurt Book Fair ←

01:02:26 <fsasaki> s/murakamia/murakami/

01:02:36 <fsasaki> murakami: largest event in japan

Shinyu Murakami: largest event in japan ←

01:02:38 <LarsG> s/augst/august/

01:02:39 <ivan> q+

Unknown ivan: q+ ←

01:02:47 <Georg> +q

Scribe problem: the name 'Georg' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Georg: +q ←

01:02:52 <fsasaki> ... then there is paige event, of the print industry associat

... then there is paige event, of the print industry assoication ←

01:02:54 <fsasaki> jagat

jagat ←

01:03:16 <tzviya> Rio de Janeiro International Book Fair

Tzviya Siegman: Rio de Janeiro International Book Fair ←

01:03:18 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

01:03:25 <fsasaki> felix: jagat where main contact for doing the japanese layout requirements work

Unknown Felix_Sasaki: jagat where main contact for doing the japanese layout requirements work ←

01:03:32 <fsasaki> s/associat/assoication/

01:03:56 <fsasaki> junichi: new law related to accessibility requirements

Unknown junichi: new law related to accessibility requirements ←

01:04:05 <clapierre> https://www.facebook.com/bookexpoamerica/

Charles LaPierre: https://www.facebook.com/bookexpoamerica/ ←

01:04:06 <fsasaki> ... very hard for text book companies

... very hard for text book companies ←

01:04:09 <clapierre> BookExpo America (BEA) 2016 | Exhibits, Special Events, and Conferences: May 11 - May 13 | McCormick Place, Chicago

Charles LaPierre: BookExpo America (BEA) 2016 | Exhibits, Special Events, and Conferences: May 11 - May 13 | McCormick Place, Chicago ←

01:04:14 <fsasaki> ... universities also must catch up

... universities also must catch up ←

01:04:21 <ivan> q-

Unknown ivan: q- ←

01:04:40 <fsasaki> ... next paige event or tokyo book fair must work on those fields

... next paige event or tokyo book fair must work on those fields ←

01:04:40 <tzviya> ack geo

Tzviya Siegman: ack geo ←

01:04:53 <fsasaki> georg: interested in facts about the conferences you mention?

Scribe problem: the name 'georg' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown georg: interested in facts about the conferences you mention? ←

01:05:02 <ivan> q+

Unknown ivan: q+ ←

01:05:13 <murakami> s/toko/Tokyo/

01:05:19 <tzviya> ack iv

Tzviya Siegman: ack iv ←

01:06:27 <fsasaki> ivan: physical fair, in 90% of the cases, this is not the audience we are looking for

Unknown ivan: physical fair, in 90% of the cases, this is not the audience we are looking for ←

01:06:37 <fsasaki> ... many people listening to author and signing books

... many people listening to author and signing books ←

01:06:48 <fsasaki> ... for this group it is uninteresting

... for this group it is uninteresting ←

01:07:01 <fsasaki> ... this is only interesting if there is a side event around

... this is only interesting if there is a side event around ←

01:07:27 <tzviya> q+

Tzviya Siegman: q+ ←

01:07:52 <fsasaki> [about page conference, see jagat site: http://www.jagat.or.jp/cat8 ]

[about page conference, see jagat site: http://www.jagat.or.jp/cat8 ] ←

01:08:13 <fsasaki> ivan: frankfurt bookfair is a huge monster, we are not the ones that run the show

Unknown ivan: frankfurt bookfair is a huge monster, we are not the ones that run the show ←

01:08:23 <fsasaki> georg: we had an interesting experience

Unknown georg: we had an interesting experience ←

01:08:41 <fsasaki> ...in berlin there was a conference on the industrial internet of things - different area

...in berlin there was a conference on the industrial internet of things - different area ←

01:08:54 <fsasaki> ... the company organizes events that are very expensive to attend

... the company organizes events that are very expensive to attend ←

01:09:03 <fsasaki> ... they want to get c- level people to the event

... they want to get c- level people to the event ←

01:09:27 <fsasaki> ... speakers may be expensive but this is ok, since the tickets are expensive

... speakers may be expensive but this is ok, since the tickets are expensive ←

01:09:46 <fsasaki> .... ticket around 3000 euro - we had dave raggett at the event talking about web of things

.... ticket around 3000 euro - we had dave raggett at the event talking about web of things ←

01:09:55 <fsasaki> ... we had a booth in the expose, had visibility

... we had a booth in the expose, had visibility ←

01:10:09 <fsasaki> ... that gave a great boost to web of things

... that gave a great boost to web of things ←

01:10:41 <fsasaki> ... not if there is space in the company plannings - but it may make sense to organize events

... not if there is space in the company plannings - but it may make sense to organize events ←

01:10:54 <fsasaki> tzviya: there was an event like that - books and browsers

Tzviya Siegman: there was an event like that - books and browsers ←

01:10:59 <johanneswilm> +q

Scribe problem: the name 'johanneswilm' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown johanneswilm: +q ←

01:11:01 <fsasaki> ... it was run by o'reilly

... it was run by o'reilly ←

01:11:14 <fsasaki> ... the event stopped, o'reilly shiftet to big data topic

... the event stopped, o'reilly shifted to big data topic ←

01:11:18 <tzviya> ack tzv

Tzviya Siegman: ack tzv ←

01:11:23 <fsasaki> georg: ok, more technical stuff

Unknown georg: ok, more technical stuff ←

01:11:29 <tzviya> http://english.keris.or.kr/

Tzviya Siegman: http://english.keris.or.kr/ ←

01:11:35 <LarsG> s/shiftet/shifted/

01:11:43 <fsasaki> tzviya: korea has event for educational content

Tzviya Siegman: korea has event for educational content ←

01:11:52 <tzviya> ack Johannes

Tzviya Siegman: ack Johannes ←

01:11:59 <fsasaki> karen: great, will pass this to korean office

Karen Myers: great, will pass this to korean office ←

01:12:16 <fsasaki> johannes: about frankfurt bookfair, I presented

Scribe problem: the name 'johannes' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown johannes: about frankfurt bookfair, I presented ←

01:12:27 <fsasaki> ... there are small sections with people interested

... there are small sections with people interested ←

01:12:37 <fsasaki> .. you need to be in the right section

.. you need to be in the right section ←

01:12:55 <fsasaki> ivan: still it is an expensive exercise

Unknown ivan: still it is an expensive exercise ←

01:13:01 <LarsG> q+ to offer to contact the relevant people at IFLA

Scribe problem: the name 'LarsG' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown LarsG: q+ to offer to contact the relevant people at IFLA ←

01:13:09 <fsasaki> q+

q+ ←

01:13:43 <fsasaki> tzviya: my impression in frankfurt was that there are mostly business people, no chance to discuss our topics

Tzviya Siegman: my impression in frankfurt was that there are mostly business people, no chance to discuss our topics ←

01:13:56 <fsasaki> johannes: the smaller ones send technical people

Unknown johannes: the smaller ones send technical people ←

01:14:13 <tzviya> ack Lars

Tzviya Siegman: ack Lars ←

01:14:13 <Zakim> LarsG, you wanted to offer to contact the relevant people at IFLA

Zakim IRC Bot: LarsG, you wanted to offer to contact the relevant people at IFLA ←

01:14:13 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes

Unknown ivan: rrsagent, draft minutes ←

01:14:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-dpub-minutes.html ivan

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-dpub-minutes.html ivan ←

01:14:13 <fsasaki> .. was discussing with service companies

.. was discussing with service companies ←

01:14:39 <tzviya> ack fs

Tzviya Siegman: ack fs ←

01:14:41 <fsasaki> tzviya: want to reach out to IFLa, will be in touch will karen

Unknown LarsG: want to reach out to IFLA, will be in touch with karen ←

01:14:53 <fsasaki> ... about ALA, talk to robert

... about ALA, talk to robert ←

01:15:11 <fsasaki> heather: has connection to special libraries

Heather Flanagan: has connection to special libraries ←

01:15:37 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

01:15:54 <ivan> q+

Unknown ivan: q+ ←

01:15:54 <fsasaki> felix: to johannes, your work is related to akep?

Unknown Felix_Sasaki: to johannes, your work is related to akep? ←

01:16:03 <fsasaki> johannes: don't know them

Unknown johannes: don't know them ←

01:16:13 <HeatherF> https://www.sla.org

Heather Flanagan: https://www.sla.org ←

01:16:16 <fsasaki> felix: let's touch base and maybe join forces next year

Unknown Felix_Sasaki: let's touch base and maybe join forces next year ←

01:16:17 <tzviya> ack iv

Tzviya Siegman: ack iv ←

01:16:25 <fsasaki> karen: great conversation, this has been very helpful

Karen Myers: great conversation, this has been very helpful ←

01:16:40 <fsasaki> ivan: what are the topics for the next weeks e.g. for blogs?

Unknown ivan: what are the topics for the next weeks e.g. for blogs? ←

01:16:44 <LarsG> s/tzviya: want/LarsG: want/

01:16:54 <fsasaki> karen: announcement of portable web publications

Karen Myers: announcement of portable web publications ←

01:16:58 <LarsG> s/IFLa/IFLA/

01:17:16 <LarsG> s/touch will karen/touch with karen/

01:17:29 <fsasaki> karen: want something about TPAC

Karen Myers: want something about TPAC ←

01:17:49 <fsasaki> ... open to see what is another milestone until the end of the year?

... open to see what is another milestone until the end of the year? ←

01:17:55 <clapierre> q+

Charles LaPierre: q+ ←

01:18:07 <fsasaki> ivan: a blog post about css priorities that they have published about a month ago

Unknown ivan: a blog post about css priorities that they have published about a month ago ←

01:18:31 <fsasaki> .... in CSS discussion, it became clear that the influence is different

.... in CSS discussion, it became clear that the influence is different ←

01:18:38 <fsasaki> ... a blog on that would be interesting

... a blog on that would be interesting ←

01:18:46 <fsasaki> ... and aria vocabulary

... and aria vocabulary ←

01:19:02 <fsasaki> ... in an ideal world in which there is no discussion about the role of aria

... in an ideal world in which there is no discussion about the role of aria ←

01:19:41 <fsasaki> ... the presence of the vocabulary

... the presence of the vocabulary ←

01:19:57 <fsasaki> karen: who would do the blogs?

Karen Myers: who would do the blogs? ←

01:20:06 <fsasaki> ivan: maybe florian for CSS

Unknown ivan: maybe florian for CSS ←

01:20:09 <tzviya> ack cla

Tzviya Siegman: ack cla ←

01:20:28 <fsasaki> tzviya: for CSS work with @@

Tzviya Siegman: for CSS work with rich schwerdferger ←

01:20:37 <fsasaki> charles: tpac blog, should we coordinate this?

Charles LaPierre: tpac blog, should we coordinate this? ←

01:20:44 <tzviya> s/@@/rich schwerdferger

01:20:48 <fsasaki> ivan: we can also have several ones

Unknown ivan: we can also have several ones ←

01:21:02 <fsasaki> karen: can also do both, coordinated and separate

Karen Myers: can also do both, coordinated and separate ←

01:21:20 <ivan> Present+ Liam_Quin

Unknown ivan: Present+ Liam_Quin ←

01:21:27 <fsasaki> tzviya: tpac snapshots, summaries, ...

Tzviya Siegman: tpac snapshots, summaries, ... ←

01:21:39 <fsasaki> ... I always point people to the summaries written by ivan

... I always point people to the summaries written by ivan ←

01:21:49 <fsasaki> [big thanks to ivan for that!]

[big thanks to ivan for that!] ←

01:22:04 <fsasaki> karen: I'll put some items on the wiki and get that better organizsed

Karen Myers: I'll put some items on the wiki and get that better organised ←

01:22:11 <fsasaki> s/organizsed/organised/

01:22:16 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes

Unknown ivan: rrsagent, draft minutes ←

01:22:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-dpub-minutes.html ivan

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-dpub-minutes.html ivan ←

01:22:22 <fsasaki> break, contine

break, continue ←

01:22:35 <fsasaki> s/contine/continue/

01:42:31 <ivan> Topic: Identifiers

(No events recorded for 20 minutes)

2. Identifiers

01:44:03 <ivan> -> http://w3c.github.io/dpub/f2f-2015-identifiers/index.html Slides to start up the discussion

Unknown ivan: -> http://w3c.github.io/dpub/f2f-2015-identifiers/index.html Slides to start up the discussion ←

01:52:23 <brady_duga> ScribeNick: brady_duga

Scribe problem: the name 'brady_duga' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

(No events recorded for 8 minutes)

(Scribe set to Unknown brady_duga)

01:52:28 <brady_duga> ivan: I have a lot of questions with no answers

Unknown ivan: I have a lot of questions with no answers ←

01:52:44 <brady_duga> … maybe some of you have answers, maybe it will take years to get answer

… maybe some of you have answers, maybe it will take years to get answer ←

01:52:56 <brady_duga> … What is PWP?

… What is PWP? ←

01:53:18 <Bert1> present+ Bert_Bos

Scribe problem: the name 'Bert1' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Bert1: present+ Bert_Bos ←

01:53:23 <brady_duga> … fundamentally has a single URL for a collection

… fundamentally has a single URL for a collection ←

01:53:30 <brady_duga> … of web resources

… of web resources ←

01:53:52 <brady_duga> … And then we have potability, which is a little vague

… And then we have potability, which is a little vague ←

01:54:03 <SteveZ> present+ Steve Zilles

Scribe problem: the name 'SteveZ' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown SteveZ: present+ Steve Zilles ←

01:54:05 <brady_duga> … but essentially the entire entity can be moved around

… but essentially the entire entity can be moved around ←

01:54:09 <Florian> present+ Florian

Scribe problem: the name 'Florian' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Florian: present+ Florian ←

01:54:20 <dauwhe> present+ dauwhe

Dave Cramer: present+ dauwhe ←

01:54:48 <brady_duga> … example of fonts - they may not be essential for displaying content because they are stylistic

… example of fonts - they may not be essential for displaying content because they are stylistic ←

01:55:01 <brady_duga> … but sometimes they are fundamental (for example, for musical notes)

… but sometimes they are fundamental (for example, for musical notes) ←

01:55:38 <brady_duga> … also different ways to access the PWP (file vs protocol), but skipping over that for now

… also different ways to access the PWP (file vs protocol), but skipping over that for now ←

01:55:59 <brady_duga> … New browser features like service workers help with this

… New browser features like service workers help with this ←

01:56:21 <brady_duga> … acts as a network proxy

… acts as a network proxy ←

01:57:03 <brady_duga> … Worked on an architecture that intercepts web requests that may used cached state

… Worked on an architecture that intercepts web requests that may used cached state ←

01:57:12 <brady_duga> … or even access a package file

… or even access a package file ←

01:57:37 <brady_duga> … and happens without the rendering engine knowing or caring where the data comes from

… and happens without the rendering engine knowing or caring where the data comes from ←

01:57:44 <brady_duga> … Looks like it is always on the web

… Looks like it is always on the web ←

01:58:04 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

01:58:25 <brady_duga> .. finally, the packaging structure (whatever it is) has a bunch of web resources (JS, html, etc)

.. finally, the packaging structure (whatever it is) has a bunch of web resources (JS, html, etc) ←

01:58:39 <brady_duga> … and some admin files (manifests, rights data, etc)

… and some admin files (manifests, rights data, etc) ←

01:58:48 <brady_duga> … which together form a PWP

… which together form a PWP ←

01:59:06 <brady_duga> … As we mentioned yesterday, there is ongoing EPUB 3.1 work

… As we mentioned yesterday, there is ongoing EPUB 3.1 work ←

01:59:28 <brady_duga> … The most important thing is 3.1 makes a comitment that it be backwards compatible

… The most important thing is 3.1 makes a comitment that it be backwards compatible ←

01:59:51 <brady_duga> … but they are still looking at something similar to what we are, so we have to coordinate

… but they are still looking at something similar to what we are, so we have to coordinate ←

01:59:58 <brady_duga> … So, identification.

… So, identification. ←

02:00:15 <brady_duga> … Have one identifier the seemlessly works across all states

… Have one identifier the seemlessly works across all states ←

02:00:26 <brady_duga> … Need to coordinate this with web workers

… Need to coordinate this with web workers ←

02:00:38 <brady_duga> … also want identifiers that have fragments

… also want identifiers that have fragments ←

02:00:53 <brady_duga> … because we may want to reference inside the PWP

… because we may want to reference inside the PWP ←

02:01:04 <brady_duga> … BUT, don’t want to reinvent the wheel

… BUT, don’t want to reinvent the wheel ←

02:01:37 <brady_duga> … So, what is the URI?

… So, what is the URI? ←

02:01:51 <brady_duga> … We have the magic of service workers. Is that good enough?

… We have the magic of service workers. Is that good enough? ←

02:02:15 <brady_duga> … There is one URI for the book, magic of service workers makes it look like it is always there

… There is one URI for the book, magic of service workers makes it look like it is always there ←

02:02:51 <brady_duga> … Need to understand how it works with local content (for instance, file: protocol won’t work with service workers)

… Need to understand how it works with local content (for instance, file: protocol won’t work with service workers) ←

02:03:14 <brady_duga> … Second, what does this really identify?

… Second, what does this really identify? ←

02:03:20 <tzviya> present+ Peter_Linss

Tzviya Siegman: present+ Peter_Linss ←

02:03:49 <brady_duga> … A general book (Hamlet) or a specific book (SomePubs third edition of Hamlet in Japanese)

… A general book (Hamlet) or a specific book (SomePubs third edition of Hamlet in Japanese) ←

02:04:07 <brady_duga> … Plus lots of versions (epub, pdf, kindle)

… Plus lots of versions (epub, pdf, kindle) ←

02:04:33 <brady_duga> … Different domains have different habits and approaches to identifiers

… Different domains have different habits and approaches to identifiers ←

02:04:39 <brady_duga> … ISBN, DOI, etc

… ISBN, DOI, etc ←

02:05:03 <brady_duga> … Is it realistic at all to solve all the requirements by separate identifiers?

… Is it realistic at all to solve all the requirements by separate identifiers? ←

02:05:14 <brady_duga> … Just asking questions!

… Just asking questions! ←

02:05:27 <brady_duga> … It is NOT W3C’s role to solve this

… It is NOT W3C’s role to solve this ←

02:05:37 <brady_duga> … but who the hell will do that?

… but who the hell will do that? ←

02:05:46 <SteveZ> q+ to say I think there is a confusion between object and the format in which the object iexists

Unknown SteveZ: q+ to say I think there is a confusion between object and the format in which the object iexists ←

02:05:57 <brady_duga> … handled by libraries forever, and still not solved

… handled by libraries forever, and still not solved ←

02:06:07 <brady_duga> … What does a GET return?

… What does a GET return? ←

02:06:39 <brady_duga> … Manifest file, html with link, a file with something in the header? All? None? Something else?

… Manifest file, html with link, a file with something in the header? All? None? Something else? ←

02:06:57 <brady_duga> How do we get into a publication?

How do we get into a publication? ←

02:07:06 <brady_duga> EPUB CFI has some cryptic method

EPUB CFI has some cryptic method ←

02:07:25 <brady_duga> … Maybe use ‘!’ as a separator

… Maybe use ‘!’ as a separator ←

02:07:43 <brady_duga> … Or mimic the file system and just use a slash

… Or mimic the file system and just use a slash ←

02:07:53 <brady_duga> … slash is closest to the web

… slash is closest to the web ←

02:08:15 <brady_duga> … CFI is hard to reuse, relies on xml

… CFI is hard to reuse, relies on xml ←

02:08:23 <brady_duga> … and specifically the package file

… and specifically the package file ←

02:08:56 <brady_duga> … all of these assume a hierarchical structure

… all of these assume a hierarchical structure ←

02:09:07 <brady_duga> … but PWP doesn’t inherently imply that

… but PWP doesn’t inherently imply that ←

02:09:41 <brady_duga> … We could have a manifest file that has some sort of redirection

… We could have a manifest file that has some sort of redirection ←

02:09:51 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

02:09:52 <brady_duga> q+

q+ ←

02:10:14 <brady_duga> … RFC650 has some stuff about URL templates

… RFC650 has some stuff about URL templates ←

02:10:43 <brady_duga> … once in the document, we need to get into content

… once in the document, we need to get into content ←

02:10:59 <brady_duga> … Can use fragment identifiers

… Can use fragment identifiers ←

02:11:15 <takeshi> q+

Unknown Takeshi_Kanai: q+ ←

02:11:29 <brady_duga> … This is how the web works, so may not be great, but it works today

… This is how the web works, so may not be great, but it works today ←

02:11:42 <brady_duga> … we may be able to influence ongoing work

… we may be able to influence ongoing work ←

02:11:53 <brady_duga> … for example, the findText API in web annotations

… for example, the findText API in web annotations ←

02:12:03 <brady_duga> … richer than just a search string

… richer than just a search string ←

02:12:13 <brady_duga> … will be experessible as a frag identifier

… will be experessible as a frag identifier ←

02:12:24 <brady_duga> … How should the resources refer to each other?

… How should the resources refer to each other? ←

02:12:31 <brady_duga> … Do we need to restrict it?

… Do we need to restrict it? ←

02:12:53 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

02:12:54 <brady_duga> … Maybe only relative URI?

… Maybe only relative URI? ←

02:13:23 <brady_duga> … Seems sad, maybe we can solve this with service workers instead of restricting it?

… Seems sad, maybe we can solve this with service workers instead of restricting it? ←

02:13:46 <brady_duga> … Need to define some scenarios about how the identifiers will work with all the states

… Need to define some scenarios about how the identifiers will work with all the states ←

02:13:53 <brady_duga> … may guide us to some answers

… may guide us to some answers ←

02:13:59 <tzviya> ack liam

Tzviya Siegman: ack liam ←

02:13:59 <Zakim> liam, you wanted to remind us that URIs can be redirected, e.g. like an XML Catalogue, e.g. by a servant-worker

Zakim IRC Bot: liam, you wanted to remind us that URIs can be redirected, e.g. like an XML Catalogue, e.g. by a servant-worker ←

02:14:05 <brady_duga> liam: Nice overview!

Scribe problem: the name 'liam' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown liam: Nice overview! ←

02:14:31 <brady_duga> … We have similar problem with identifiers in xml

… We have similar problem with identifiers in xml ←

02:14:43 <brady_duga> … we solve it with an xml catalog for fetching DTDs

… we solve it with an xml catalog for fetching DTDs ←

02:14:57 <brady_duga> … common practice rewriting the URI

… common practice rewriting the URI ←

02:15:21 <brady_duga> … makes sense to have a service worker look in a manifest to get a DTD from somewhere else

… makes sense to have a service worker look in a manifest to get a DTD from somewhere else ←

02:15:42 <brady_duga> … specifically on the syntax, you use a hash and slash, could also use ‘?’

… specifically on the syntax, you use a hash and slash, could also use ‘?’ ←

02:16:04 <brady_duga> ivan: I may not have emphasized enough

Unknown ivan: I may not have emphasized enough ←

02:16:13 <brady_duga> … a web pub is a collection of resources

… a web pub is a collection of resources ←

02:16:26 <brady_duga> … but each resource is on the web, so you want to access them directly

… but each resource is on the web, so you want to access them directly ←

02:17:00 <brady_duga> … the canonical URI should be the URI used, which pushes us to using path separators instead of ‘!’ or ‘?’

… the canonical URI should be the URI used, which pushes us to using path separators instead of ‘!’ or ‘?’ ←

02:17:09 <tzviya> ack steve

Tzviya Siegman: ack steve ←

02:17:09 <Zakim> SteveZ, you wanted to say I think there is a confusion between object and the format in which the object iexists

Zakim IRC Bot: SteveZ, you wanted to say I think there is a confusion between object and the format in which the object iexists ←

02:17:10 <brady_duga> liam: OK, don’t need to get bogged down

Unknown liam: OK, don’t need to get bogged down ←

02:17:20 <brady_duga> SteveZ: I think almost all the issues are important

Unknown SteveZ: I think almost all the issues are important ←

02:17:25 <brady_duga> … but there is one red herring

… but there is one red herring ←

02:17:38 <brady_duga> … and that is what does the identifier identify

… and that is what does the identifier identify ←

02:18:08 <brady_duga> … what you point to is not something you need to answer in this case unless it effects the format

… what you point to is not something you need to answer in this case unless it effects the format ←

02:18:14 <brady_duga> ivan: I would love it if you were right

Unknown ivan: I would love it if you were right ←

02:18:24 <brady_duga> … but if you look at our uses cases we need it

… but if you look at our uses cases we need it ←

02:18:33 <brady_duga> … for instance, you annotate some book

… for instance, you annotate some book ←

02:18:46 <brady_duga> … then you take the book and move it locally

… then you take the book and move it locally ←

02:18:51 <brady_duga> … then you push it back

… then you push it back ←

02:19:04 <brady_duga> … originally the book might be a public resource on the web

… originally the book might be a public resource on the web ←

02:19:16 <brady_duga> … when I make changes it because something different

… when I make changes it because something different ←

02:19:28 <brady_duga> … I may need a copy of the original which has a different ID

… I may need a copy of the original which has a different ID ←

02:19:47 <brady_duga> SteveZ: But that has to do with the format of the annotations on something than on what the something is

Unknown SteveZ: But that has to do with the format of the annotations on something than on what the something is ←

02:20:02 <brady_duga> … it means the annotation format needs to reference the base thing

… it means the annotation format needs to reference the base thing ←

02:20:15 <brady_duga> ivan: it may mean the same pub has several identifiers

Unknown ivan: it may mean the same pub has several identifiers ←

02:20:18 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

02:20:21 <brady_duga> … a canonical one

… a canonical one ←

02:20:30 <brady_duga> … with say the metadata from the pub

… with say the metadata from the pub ←

02:20:39 <brady_duga> … another is one for my local one

… another is one for my local one ←

02:20:46 <brady_duga> … maybe we need two different ids

… maybe we need two different ids ←

02:20:47 <Florian> q+

Unknown Florian: q+ ←

02:20:59 <brady_duga> SteveZ: Yes, that’s what I am getting at

Unknown SteveZ: Yes, that’s what I am getting at ←

02:21:02 <tzviya> ack br

Tzviya Siegman: ack br ←

02:21:18 <brady_duga> … the issue of what you are pointing at  depends on how you are using it

… the issue of what you are pointing at depends on how you are using it ←

02:21:20 <dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe

(Scribe set to Dave Cramer)

02:21:29 <dauwhe> brady_duga: you were talking about heirarchical nature of these

Unknown brady_duga: you were talking about heirarchical nature of these ←

02:21:42 <dauwhe> ... epub-cfi doesn't require that, it already has aliasing

... epub-cfi doesn't require that, it already has aliasing ←

02:21:50 <dauwhe> ... it still requires a spine

... it still requires a spine ←

02:21:57 <dauwhe> ... but things can live wherever

... but things can live wherever ←

02:22:10 <dauwhe> ... you're not reaching things by URL, but by reference in manifest

... you're not reaching things by URL, but by reference in manifest ←

02:22:15 <tzviya> ack takeshi

Tzviya Siegman: ack takeshi ←

02:22:21 <dauwhe> scribnick: brady_duga

Scribe problem: the name 'scribnick' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown scribnick: brady_duga ←

02:22:33 <brady_duga> takeshi: I was also thinking about the same approach

Unknown Takeshi_Kanai: I was also thinking about the same approach [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:22:38 <brady_duga> … but ran into some issues

Unknown brady_duga: … but ran into some issues ←

02:22:53 <brady_duga> … we have to remember ISSN

Unknown brady_duga: … we have to remember ISSN ←

02:23:00 <brady_duga> … mainly for periodicals

Unknown brady_duga: … mainly for periodicals ←

02:23:01 <johanneswilm> +q

Unknown johanneswilm: +q ←

02:23:07 <brady_duga> … and collections

Unknown brady_duga: … and collections ←

02:23:15 <Bert1> q+ to ask if packed & unpacked are expected to have different IDs (URLs), or if they are just states/views of the same resource (converted on demand), or maybe there are *three* IDs, packed, unpacked and both?

Unknown Bert1: q+ to ask if packed & unpacked are expected to have different IDs (URLs), or if they are just states/views of the same resource (converted on demand), or maybe there are *three* IDs, packed, unpacked and both? ←

02:23:23 <brady_duga> … since they are collections, we can’t reach each issue

Unknown brady_duga: … since they are collections, we can’t reach each issue ←

02:23:36 <brady_duga> ivan: I don’t understand - why is an ISSN different than say DOI?

Unknown ivan: I don’t understand - why is an ISSN different than say DOI? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:23:47 <brady_duga> takeshi: ISSN has a title, but doesn’t have the physical content

Unknown Takeshi_Kanai: ISSN has a title, but doesn’t have the physical content [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:24:10 <LarsG> q+ to talk about issn

Unknown LarsG: q+ to talk about issn ←

02:24:12 <brady_duga> … It may have “this is todays issue”, “this is yesterday’s”, etc

Unknown brady_duga: … It may have “this is todays issue”, “this is yesterday’s”, etc ←

02:24:20 <brady_duga> takeshi: But still virtual

Unknown Takeshi_Kanai: But still virtual [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:24:39 <brady_duga> ivan: But maybe that is the purest form of this identifier

Unknown ivan: But maybe that is the purest form of this identifier [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:24:46 <brady_duga> … maybe they are all virtual

Unknown brady_duga: … maybe they are all virtual ←

02:24:46 <baba> q+

Unknown baba: q+ ←

02:24:54 <brady_duga> tzviya: DOI can include ISSN

Tzviya Siegman: DOI can include ISSN [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:25:03 <brady_duga> … functionally may be the same as ISBN

Unknown brady_duga: … ←

02:25:17 <brady_duga> LarsG: I think we are on the same page

Unknown LarsG: I think we are on the same page [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:25:32 <brady_duga> … ISSN references a series of things that are published periodically

Unknown brady_duga: … ISSN references a series of things that are published periodically ←

02:25:52 <brady_duga> … I see you could make an ebook of everything that is reference by an ISSN

Unknown brady_duga: … I see you could make an ebook of everything that is reference by an ISSN ←

02:26:11 <brady_duga> … but that is weird. An ISSN references the series itself, not the items in the series

Unknown brady_duga: … but that is weird. An ISSN references the series itself, not the items in the series ←

02:26:23 <brady_duga> … An ISSN isn’t appropriate for an ebook

Unknown brady_duga: … An ISSN isn’t appropriate for an ebook ←

02:26:35 <brady_duga> tzviya: But we aren’t using it for that

Tzviya Siegman: But we aren’t using it for that [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:26:44 <LarsG> q-

Unknown LarsG: q- ←

02:26:50 <brady_duga> … You would use ISSN + DOI for a specific article

Unknown brady_duga: … You would use ISSN + DOI for a specific article ←

02:26:53 <tzviya> ack fl

Tzviya Siegman: ack fl ←

02:26:59 <brady_duga> ivan: Too deep in the weeds

Unknown ivan: Too deep in the weeds [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:27:04 <fsasaki> file 1: <p id=p1. file 2: <p id

Unknown fsasaki: ←

02:27:14 <brady_duga> Florian: While this topic is important for us, it is broader than this

Unknown Florian: While this topic is important for us, it is broader than this [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:27:17 <tzviya> s/functionally may be the same as ISBN/

02:27:43 <fsasaki> q+

Unknown fsasaki: q+ ←

02:27:58 <brady_duga> … need some sort of identifier that doesn’t require an authority

Unknown brady_duga: … need some sort of identifier that doesn’t require an authority ←

02:28:03 <brady_duga> … using a hash. Bert?

Unknown brady_duga: … using a hash. Bert? ←

02:28:15 <brady_duga> Bert: There is a system that uses a hash

Scribe problem: the name 'Bert' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Bert: There is a system, in particular a system called Freenet, that uses a hash [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:28:33 <brady_duga> … it’s the old URN idea with an actual implementation

Unknown brady_duga: … it’s the old URN idea with an actual implementation ←

02:28:50 <brady_duga> ivan: Half of me says, let’s explore that, it’s exciting

Unknown ivan: Half of me says, let’s explore that, it’s exciting [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:29:02 <LarsG> s/file 1: <p id=p1. file 2: <p id//

02:29:08 <brady_duga> … but difficult to go to publishers with it

Unknown brady_duga: … but difficult to go to publishers with it ←

02:29:16 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

02:29:22 <brady_duga> … anything we come up with should be very down to earth

Unknown brady_duga: … anything we come up with should be very down to earth ←

02:29:38 <Bert1> s/system/system, in particular a system called Freenet,/

02:29:39 <brady_duga> Florian: Don’t want to require this, but need to work with the rest of the web

Unknown Florian: Don’t want to require this, but need to work with the rest of the web [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:30:01 <brady_duga> … maybe it just works on http, and it ony works to identify on the web

Unknown brady_duga: … maybe it just works on http, and it ony works to identify on the web ←

02:30:31 <tzviya> ack jo

Tzviya Siegman: ack jo ←

02:30:34 <brady_duga> … instead of specifying protocols, we have multiple pieces and we can implement all or part to get different levels of expression

Unknown brady_duga: … instead of specifying protocols, we have multiple pieces and we can implement all or part to get different levels of expression ←

02:30:51 <brady_duga> johanneswilm: If we have some identifier for this, we should resolve larger issues we have with ISBN

Unknown johanneswilm: If we have some identifier for this, we should resolve larger issues we have with ISBN [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:31:09 <brady_duga> … sometimes we have multiple ISBN, there is no control over reuse (done in practice), etc

Unknown brady_duga: … sometimes we have multiple ISBN, there is no control over reuse (done in practice), etc ←

02:31:29 <brady_duga> ivan: This is my last bullet item - we will NOT solve it. We shouldn’t even try

Unknown ivan: This is my last bullet item - we will NOT solve it. We shouldn’t even try [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:31:37 <brady_duga> … Industry needs to solve ISBN

Unknown brady_duga: … Industry needs to solve ISBN ←

02:31:51 <brady_duga> tzviya: You say publishing industry, but it is not just one

Tzviya Siegman: You say publishing industry, but it is not just one [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:32:06 <brady_duga> Florian: Maybe it shouldn’t be one authority, it needs to be decentralized

Unknown Florian: Maybe it shouldn’t be one authority, it needs to be decentralized [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:32:26 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

02:32:29 <brady_duga> ivan: I understand, but all we can say is a specific publications should have  a unique ID

Unknown ivan: I understand, but all we can say is a specific publications should have a unique ID [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:32:53 <brady_duga> … But that is all. Saying exactly what the form is not up to us

Unknown brady_duga: … But that is all. Saying exactly what the form is not up to us ←

02:32:58 <tzviya> ack bert

Tzviya Siegman: ack bert ←

02:32:58 <Zakim> Bert, you wanted to ask if packed & unpacked are expected to have different IDs (URLs), or if they are just states/views of the same resource (converted on demand), or maybe there

Zakim IRC Bot: Bert, you wanted to ask if packed & unpacked are expected to have different IDs (URLs), or if they are just states/views of the same resource (converted on demand), or maybe there ←

02:33:01 <Zakim> ... are *three* IDs, packed, unpacked and both?

Zakim IRC Bot: ... are *three* IDs, packed, unpacked and both? ←

02:33:06 <brady_duga> johanneswilm: Let’s make it clear we are not depending on ISBN

Unknown johanneswilm: Let’s make it clear we are not depending on ISBN [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:33:10 <brady_duga> ivan: agreed

Unknown ivan: agreed [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:33:12 <Florian> q-

Unknown Florian: q- ←

02:33:27 <brady_duga> Bert: What does it mean for the format to packed vs unpacked? How does it change?

Unknown Bert: What does it mean for the format to packed vs unpacked? How does it change? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:33:59 <tzviya> ack baba

Tzviya Siegman: ack baba ←

02:33:59 <brady_duga> ivan: Conceptually, it is the same publication that can appear as a package, or it can be on the web and you get a URI

Unknown ivan: Conceptually, it is the same publication that can appear as a package, or it can be on the web and you get a URI [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:34:23 <brady_duga> baba: On the books store, we have 2 versions. Sample vs full

Unknown baba: On the books store, we have 2 versions. Sample vs full [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:34:44 <brady_duga> … The package document has different IDs

Unknown brady_duga: … The package document has different IDs ←

02:34:50 <brady_duga> … but we want to share bookmarks

Unknown brady_duga: … but we want to share bookmarks ←

02:34:59 <brady_duga> … so in this case the id should be the same

Unknown brady_duga: … so in this case the id should be the same ←

02:35:05 <brady_duga> tzviya: I think this would help that

Tzviya Siegman: I think this would help that [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:35:15 <SteveZ> q+

Unknown SteveZ: q+ ←

02:35:17 <brady_duga> … Just use one id, but control access

Unknown brady_duga: … Just use one id, but control access ←

02:35:29 <brady_duga> … so it is just access

Unknown brady_duga: … so it is just access ←

02:35:50 <brady_duga> baba: Having the same id is a good id, but the indentifier is not a single string

Unknown baba: Having the same id is a good id, but the indentifier is not a single string [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:36:33 <brady_duga> … I don’t know what the ID is in that case

Unknown brady_duga: … I don’t know what the ID is in that case ←

02:36:39 <tzviya> ack fs

Tzviya Siegman: ack fs ←

02:36:44 <fsasaki> file 1: <p id=p1> ...  file 2: <p id=p1> ... uniqueness & scope issues for identifiers then assembling ebooks from distributed html content? see xliff fragment identiifers special purposed for "assembling content" scenarios http://docs.oasis-open.org/xliff/xliff-core/v2.0/xliff-core-v2.0.html#fragid

Unknown fsasaki: file 1: <p id=p1> ... file 2: <p id=p1> ... uniqueness & scope issues for identifiers then assembling ebooks from distributed html content? see xliff fragment identiifers special purposed for "assembling content" scenarios http://docs.oasis-open.org/xliff/xliff-core/v2.0/xliff-core-v2.0.html#fragid ←

02:36:45 <brady_duga> tzviya: Not dealing with access at the moment, but is important

Tzviya Siegman: Not dealing with access at the moment, but is important [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:37:01 <brady_duga> fsasaki: Imagine existing content as above

Unknown fsasaki: Imagine existing content as above [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:37:11 <rossen> rossen has changed the topic to: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Oct_2015_F2F_Logistics_and_Details#Second_day_.2830_Oct.29

Scribe problem: the name 'rossen' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown rossen: rossen has changed the topic to: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Oct_2015_F2F_Logistics_and_Details#Second_day_.2830_Oct.29 ←

02:37:17 <brady_duga> … assembling existing content is a real use

Unknown brady_duga: … assembling existing content is a real use ←

02:37:43 <brady_duga> … so a sub-resource was identified uniquely, but now isn't

Unknown brady_duga: … so a sub-resource was identified uniquely, but now isn't ←

02:37:56 <dauwhe> q?

q? ←

02:37:57 <brady_duga> … may need to consider scope issues. Have you considered it?

Unknown brady_duga: … may need to consider scope issues. Have you considered it? ←

02:38:01 <brady_duga> ivan: No.

Unknown ivan: No. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:38:02 <dauwhe> q+

q+ ←

02:38:14 <brady_duga> … so the fragment is within only 1 html file

Unknown brady_duga: … so the fragment is within only 1 html file ←

02:38:22 <dauwhe> ack me

ack me ←

02:38:35 <brady_duga> … fragment is unique inside the file

Unknown brady_duga: … fragment is unique inside the file ←

02:38:53 <brady_duga> … could have collisions at the file level

Unknown brady_duga: … could have collisions at the file level ←

02:39:07 <brady_duga> … but that is problem for the person merging these

Unknown brady_duga: … but that is problem for the person merging these ←

02:39:26 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

02:39:30 <brady_duga> fsasaki: Wondering about sub-portions of a publication

Unknown fsasaki: Wondering about sub-portions of a publication [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:39:37 <brady_duga> … not a problem for file level

Unknown brady_duga: … not a problem for file level ←

02:39:44 <tzviya> ack st

Tzviya Siegman: ack st ←

02:39:47 <brady_duga> ivan: Not specific to us, can always happen

Unknown ivan: Not specific to us, can always happen [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:40:10 <brady_duga> SteveZ: Asking about identity - can I tell if something else is the same thing as an ID I have

Unknown SteveZ: Asking about identity - can I tell if something else is the same thing as an ID I have [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:40:29 <brady_duga> … But if you aren’t solving this, then why is it an identifier?

Unknown brady_duga: … But if you aren’t solving this, then why is it an identifier? ←

02:40:57 <brady_duga> ivan: Correct, it is not an identifier in that sense, just in URI sense

Unknown ivan: Correct, it is not an identifier in that sense, just in URI sense [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:41:02 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

02:41:11 <brady_duga> … Not ISBN

Unknown brady_duga: … Not ISBN ←

02:41:29 <brady_duga> … what we care about is something on the web, using it in the sense of URI

Unknown brady_duga: … what we care about is something on the web, using it in the sense of URI ←

02:41:47 <brady_duga> tzviya: Ted says offline we should be using URL, because we want a locatior

Tzviya Siegman: Ted says offline we should be using URL, because we want a locator [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:41:56 <brady_duga> s/locatior/locator/

02:42:00 <tzviya> s/locatior/locator

02:42:15 <LarsG> q+ to talk about URI vs URL when it comes to location

Unknown LarsG: q+ to talk about URI vs URL when it comes to location ←

02:42:34 <tzviya> ack lars

Tzviya Siegman: ack lars ←

02:42:34 <Zakim> LarsG, you wanted to talk about URI vs URL when it comes to location

Zakim IRC Bot: LarsG, you wanted to talk about URI vs URL when it comes to location ←

02:42:39 <brady_duga> ivan: Get’s into religious arguments about DOI being an identifier vs URI

Unknown ivan: Get’s into religious arguments about DOI being an identifier vs URI [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:42:52 <brady_duga> LarsG: I don’t URN is appropriate in this case

Unknown LarsG: I don’t URN is appropriate in this case [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:43:05 <brady_duga> … if I unpack the thing local (from a web address)

Unknown brady_duga: … if I unpack the thing local (from a web address) ←

02:43:13 <brady_duga> … then the location is not what the URI says

Unknown brady_duga: … then the location is not what the URI says ←

02:43:21 <brady_duga> … so it isn’t about where the resource is

Unknown brady_duga: … so it isn’t about where the resource is ←

02:43:37 <brady_duga> … DOI isn’t about location, since it can be multiple places

Unknown brady_duga: … DOI isn’t about location, since it can be multiple places ←

02:44:08 <brady_duga> ivan: But when I use an http thing, I can udentify specific things (like myself), so there are arguments about these uses

Unknown ivan: But when I use an http thing, I can udentify specific things (like myself), so there are arguments about these uses [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:44:18 <brady_duga> … so we must clarify in the doc

Unknown brady_duga: … so we must clarify in the doc ←

02:44:20 <Bert1> (Another location-independent URI scheme is the Magnet-URI, a generalization of the Freenet scheme, and probably better known.)

Unknown Bert1: (Another location-independent URI scheme is the Magnet-URI, a generalization of the Freenet scheme, and probably better known.) ←

02:44:37 <brady_duga> peter: This is just rehashing old TAG arguments

Scribe problem: the name 'plinss' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown plinss: This is just rehashing old TAG arguments [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:44:46 <brady_duga> … Please don’t go there

Unknown brady_duga: … Please don’t go there ←

02:44:54 <brady_duga> … URL is a locator.

Unknown brady_duga: … URL is a locator. ←

02:45:08 <brady_duga> … If you give it magic meaning beyond that you will have a bad time

Unknown brady_duga: … If you give it magic meaning beyond that you will have a bad time ←

02:45:15 <brady_duga> … let’s not resurrect the semantic web

Unknown brady_duga: … let’s not resurrect the semantic web abuse of URLs ←

02:45:28 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

02:45:30 <brady_duga> … what it means is the thing you get when you dereference the URL

Unknown brady_duga: … what it means is the thing you get when you dereference the URL ←

02:45:43 <takeshi> q+

Unknown Takeshi_Kanai: q+ ←

02:46:00 <brady_duga> s/peter/plinss/

02:46:18 <jeff_xu> q+

Jeff Xu: q+ ←

02:46:25 <brady_duga> … If I fetch a GIF off the net, even if it is in the cache it is still the same thing

Unknown brady_duga: … If I fetch a GIF off the net, even if it is in the cache it is still the same thing ←

02:46:39 <LarsG> q+ to talk about what I annotate

Unknown LarsG: q+ to talk about what I annotate ←

02:46:44 <tzviya> ack tak

Tzviya Siegman: ack tak ←

02:46:48 <brady_duga> … so they are equivalent. The URL doesn’t mean the image itself

Unknown brady_duga: … so they are equivalent. The URL doesn’t mean the image itself ←

02:47:03 <brady_duga> takeshi: I think this doc needs IRI

Unknown Takeshi_Kanai: I think this doc needs IRI [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:47:08 <tzviya> ack jeff

Tzviya Siegman: ack jeff ←

02:47:09 <brady_duga> ivan: That is another aspect, but yes

Unknown ivan: That is another aspect, but yes [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:47:36 <brady_duga> jeff_xu: For pubs, it is easy to identify, but for self pubs how does it work?

Jeff Xu: For pubs, it is easy to identify, but for self pubs how does it work? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:47:41 <brady_duga> ivan: Don’t understand

Unknown ivan: Don’t understand [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:47:58 <brady_duga> jeff_xu: Is there a mechanism for self pubs to create an identifier?

Jeff Xu: Is there a mechanism for self pubs to create an identifier? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:48:09 <brady_duga> ivan: By virtue of being on the web, it has a URL

Unknown ivan: By virtue of being on the web, it has a URL [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:48:35 <brady_duga> … if I want I can use a service to create a stable URL that behnind the scenes redirects you

Unknown brady_duga: … if I want I can use a service to create a stable URL that behnind the scenes redirects you ←

02:49:00 <brady_duga> jeff_xu: If I put my book on a different store, it might have different identifiers

Jeff Xu: If I put my book on a different store, it might have different identifiers [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:49:01 <johanneswilm> +q

Unknown johanneswilm: +q ←

02:49:20 <johanneswilm> ack johanneswilm

Unknown johanneswilm: ack johanneswilm ←

02:49:28 <brady_duga> ivan: Just like today, it will have two different identifiers

Unknown ivan: Just like today, it will have two different identifiers [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:49:43 <brady_duga> tzviya: This is a retail question and isn’t somethingwe can address

Tzviya Siegman: This is a retail question and isn’t somethingwe can address [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:49:46 <tzviya> ack lars

Tzviya Siegman: ack lars ←

02:49:46 <Zakim> LarsG, you wanted to talk about what I annotate

Zakim IRC Bot: LarsG, you wanted to talk about what I annotate ←

02:50:01 <brady_duga> LarsG: In that case we need to careful about what we are really identifying

Unknown LarsG: In that case we need to careful about what we are really identifying [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:50:26 <brady_duga> … if I have a URL for something I can download, then download it they get different identifiers

Unknown brady_duga: … if I have a URL for something I can download, then download it they get different identifiers ←

02:50:48 <brady_duga> ivan: If you downloaded because you are online

Unknown ivan: If you downloaded because you are online [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:51:06 <brady_duga> … then when you get online, it magically works when you are online

Unknown brady_duga: … then when you get online, it magically works when you are online ←

02:51:49 <brady_duga> … different scenario, when you really duplicate, you made a different pub so has it’s own id

Unknown brady_duga: … different scenario, when you really duplicate, you made a different pub so has it’s own id ←

02:51:54 <brady_duga> tzviya: Next steps

Tzviya Siegman: Next steps [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:52:06 <brady_duga> ivan: I would hate if starting tomorrow I was the only one thinking about it

Unknown ivan: I would hate if starting tomorrow I was the only one thinking about it [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:52:22 <brady_duga> … needs more common work

Unknown brady_duga: … needs more common work ←

02:52:37 <plinss> s/resurrect the semantic web/resurrect the semantic web abuse of URLs/

02:52:37 <brady_duga> … need scenarios of usage

Unknown brady_duga: … need scenarios of usage ←

02:52:48 <brady_duga> … so we can get to possible answers

Unknown brady_duga: … so we can get to possible answers ←

02:53:01 <brady_duga> … whether we uses hierarchy vs redirects for instance

Unknown brady_duga: … whether we uses hierarchy vs redirects for instance ←

02:53:14 <brady_duga> … not writing a spec, just want to gather points and come to some sort of format

Unknown brady_duga: … not writing a spec, just want to gather points and come to some sort of format ←

02:53:25 <brady_duga> … not sure how far IDPF wants to go

Unknown brady_duga: … not sure how far IDPF wants to go ←

02:53:31 <brady_duga> tzviya: Yes

Tzviya Siegman: Yes [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:53:46 <brady_duga> tzviya: Next step, talk to Luc

Tzviya Siegman: Next step, talk to Luc [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:54:00 <brady_duga> … how about this group?

Unknown brady_duga: … how about this group? ←

02:54:05 <brady_duga> ivan: Collect scenarios

Unknown ivan: Collect scenarios [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:54:15 <brady_duga> … then see how these possibilities work with them

Unknown brady_duga: … then see how these possibilities work with them ←

02:54:29 <brady_duga> … indepentantly, I am not the first person who has thought about this

Unknown brady_duga: … indepentantly, I am not the first person who has thought about this ←

02:54:44 <brady_duga> … so there may be others with at least partial answers

Unknown brady_duga: … so there may be others with at least partial answers ←

02:55:00 <brady_duga> tzviya: Do we have insights from the visiting types?

Tzviya Siegman: Do we have insights from the visiting types? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:55:06 <brady_duga> … words of wisdom?

Unknown brady_duga: … words of wisdom? ←

02:55:28 <brady_duga> SteveZ: Deciding how to tear something apart before you know what is in it is a hard task

Unknown SteveZ: Deciding how to tear something apart before you know what is in it is a hard task [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:55:38 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

02:55:44 <brady_duga> … probably want to know what the manifest is before you decide how to address pieces of it

Unknown brady_duga: … probably want to know what the manifest is before you decide how to address pieces of it ←

02:55:58 <brady_duga> LarsG: Talking about works vs editions

Unknown LarsG: Talking about works vs editions [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:56:27 <brady_duga> tzviya: Q: thing like “Shakespeare’s Hamlet” is out of scope. What about revisions?

Tzviya Siegman: Q: thing like “Shakespeare’s Hamlet” is out of scope. What about revisions? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:56:33 <brady_duga> … and versions

Unknown brady_duga: … and versions ←

02:56:45 <brady_duga> … publish a version with typo

Unknown brady_duga: … publish a version with typo ←

02:56:56 <brady_duga> .. fix it, repeat

Unknown brady_duga: .. fix it, repeat ←

02:57:41 <brady_duga> … does the version and revision show up in the URL?

Unknown brady_duga: … does the version and revision show up in the URL? ←

02:57:47 <brady_duga> … like github?

Unknown brady_duga: … like github? ←

02:58:02 <brady_duga> dauwhe: Maybe leave something for the document itself

Dave Cramer: Maybe leave something for the document itself [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:58:22 <brady_duga> SteveZ: Don’t put metadata in the URL, since you won’t get it all

Unknown SteveZ: Don’t put metadata in the URL, since you won’t get it all [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:58:48 <brady_duga> ivan: In some sense regardless of syntax, what are the info you need in the manifest

Unknown ivan: In some sense regardless of syntax, what are the info you need in the manifest [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

02:59:13 <brady_duga> … You need something like a manifest, what is the required info for it.

Unknown brady_duga: … You need something like a manifest, what is the required info for it. ←

02:59:34 <Florian> q+

Unknown Florian: q+ ←

02:59:59 <brady_duga> brady_duga: Point versions, may  need to point at a specific version

Unknown brady_duga: Point versions, may need to point at a specific version [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

03:00:10 <brady_duga> ivan: Yes, just like CSS versions of specs

Unknown ivan: Yes, just like CSS versions of specs [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

03:00:36 <Florian> q-

Unknown Florian: q- ←

03:01:06 <brady_duga> Florian: Can we encode all this in the URL?

Unknown Florian: Can we encode all this in the URL? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

03:01:12 <brady_duga> … It is very broad

Unknown brady_duga: … It is very broad ←

03:01:33 <brady_duga> … we can’t solve all of version control, unless we put the whole web in git

Unknown brady_duga: … we can’t solve all of version control, unless we put the whole web in git ←

03:01:46 <brady_duga> ivan: This requires lots more mail discussion

Unknown ivan: This requires lots more mail discussion [ Scribe Assist by Unknown brady_duga ] ←

03:02:35 <Karen> rrsagent, draft minutes

Karen Myers: rrsagent, draft minutes ←

03:02:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-dpub-minutes.html Karen

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-dpub-minutes.html Karen ←

04:08:41 <HeatherF_> scribenick: HeatherF

(No events recorded for 66 minutes)

(Scribe set to Heather Flanagan)

04:09:26 <HeatherF_> Introductions

Introductions ←

04:09:32 <HeatherF_> tzviya: introductions

Tzviya Siegman: introductions ←

04:11:30 <tzviya> agenda: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/DPUB-ARIA_Agenda

04:11:56 <HeatherF_> tzviya: talked about extended descriptions. Michael Cooper put together information on the descriptions.

Tzviya Siegman: talked about extended descriptions. Michael Cooper put together information on the descriptions. ←

04:12:30 <HeatherF_> ... our group offered feedback. ARIA (Michael Cooper) needs to review.

... our group offered feedback. ARIA (Michael Cooper) needs to review. ←

04:12:40 <HeatherF_> Michael: thought this was just input into the grid.

Scribe problem: the name 'Michael' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Michael: thought this was just input into the grid. ←

04:12:56 <HeatherF_> tzviya: some discussion on that list may be necessary in the future

Tzviya Siegman: some discussion on that list may be necessary in the future ←

04:13:39 <HeatherF_> ... some of the things we want to update is where we stand with some of the elements

... some of the things we want to update is where we stand with some of the elements ←

04:13:45 <tzviya> dpub feedback from DPUB on extended desc http://w3c.github.io/dpub-accessibility/extended-description-analysis.html

Tzviya Siegman: dpub feedback from DPUB on extended desc http://w3c.github.io/dpub-accessibility/extended-description-analysis.html ←

04:13:46 <HeatherF_> ... do we want to even try to address that today?

... do we want to even try to address that today? ←

04:14:36 <ivan> Present+ Lea_Verou, Chris_Lilley, Michael_Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Myles, Alan_Stearns, Markku_Hakkinen, Jason_White

Unknown ivan: Present+ Lea_Verou, Chris_Lilley, Michael_Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Myles, Alan_Stearns, Markku_Hakkinen, Jason_White ←

04:15:04 <HeatherF_> MichaelC: what we want to get to is a ruling out of some approaches.

Scribe problem: the name 'MichaelC' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown MichaelC: what we want to get to is a ruling out of some approaches. ←

04:15:15 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

04:15:22 <HeatherF_> ... of the approaches that don't get ruled out, which have issues with implementation or authoring complexity.

... of the approaches that don't get ruled out, which have issues with implementation or authoring complexity. ←

04:16:00 <HeatherF_> ... You can start with the first table to rule out approaches. If use cases are important then any "no" in a use case steers it to being ruled out

... You can start with the first table to rule out approaches. If use cases are important then any "no" in a use case steers it to being ruled out ←

04:16:26 <HeatherF_> ... A couple of the figure and detail approaches ("describedat", etc) don't actually fly

... A couple of the figure and detail approaches ("describedat", etc) don't actually fly ←

04:16:55 <HeatherF_> ??: if there is no disagreement, but also if there is no factual disagreement, then probably a reasonable next step will be to take the ones out that do not support what we need supported

??: if there is no disagreement, but also if there is no factual disagreement, then probably a reasonable next step will be to take the ones out that do not support what we need supported ←

04:17:03 <HeatherF_> ... That takes us down to just a few.

... That takes us down to just a few. ←

04:17:06 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

04:17:15 <HeatherF_> ivan: which would stay?

Unknown ivan: which would stay? ←

04:17:43 <HeatherF_> MichaelC: figures with detail source and role attribute meets most of the use cases; ariadescribedat meets all of them; web components proposal might meet all of them;

Unknown MichaelC: figures with detail source and role attribute meets most of the use cases; ariadescribedat meets all of them; web components proposal might meet all of them; ←

04:17:54 <HeatherF_> ... web annotations might meet all of them. Those are the four we should look at most closely.

... web annotations might meet all of them. Those are the four we should look at most closely. ←

04:18:05 <HeatherF_> ... We are therefore ruling out people's pet solutions.

... We are therefore ruling out people's pet solutions. ←

04:18:30 <HeatherF_> ivan: don't know if it is a good idea to rule them out all together at this point. If you take them out then there must be some trace that they were at least considered

Unknown ivan: don't know if it is a good idea to rule them out all together at this point. If you take them out then there must be some trace that they were at least considered ←

04:18:48 <HeatherF_> MichaelC: table must provide data as to why we made decisions

Unknown MichaelC: table must provide data as to why we made decisions ←

04:18:59 <HeatherF_> liam: some of the "no's" we have in th euse cases are about what is, not what could be

Unknown liam: some of the "no's" we have in th euse cases are about what is, not what could be ←

04:19:29 <HeatherF_> tzviya: some of the "yes's" almost exist (e.g., web annotations). We need to talk about what works today, tomorrow, or next year.

Tzviya Siegman: some of the "yes's" almost exist (e.g., web annotations). We need to talk about what works today, tomorrow, or next year. ←

04:19:46 <HeatherF_> tzviya: not sure the column reflects today, but we think work is being done towards something.

Tzviya Siegman: not sure the column reflects today, but we think work is being done towards something. ←

04:19:46 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

04:20:22 <HeatherF_> jason: in the comment on the draft posted to the list, pointed out issues with details element. It doesn't reflect the proposal made by James Craig.

Scribe problem: the name 'jason' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jason: in the comment on the draft posted to the list, pointed out issues with details element. It doesn't reflect the proposal made by James Craig. ←

04:20:40 <HeatherF_> ... whether extended descriptions are even wanted; could be used to hide content from people who don't want to see details.

... whether extended descriptions are even wanted; could be used to hide content from people who don't want to see details. ←

04:20:49 <HeatherF_> ... The whole media query idea is not captured in the document.

... The whole media query idea is not captured in the document. ←

04:21:19 <HeatherF_> ... and the details element, most of the people discussing it did not like the idea of adding an additional source element.

... and the details element, most of the people discussing it did not like the idea of adding an additional source element. ←

04:21:29 <HeatherF_> ... The live proposals are not the same as the proposals in the table.

... The live proposals are not the same as the proposals in the table. ←

04:21:44 <HeatherF_> MichaelC: the table was an attempt to collect data non-judgementally

Unknown MichaelC: the table was an attempt to collect data non-judgementally ←

04:21:53 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

04:22:09 <HeatherF_> liam: table is fabulous to inspire discussion

Unknown liam: table is fabulous to inspire discussion ←

04:22:44 <HeatherF_> ... the first "no" is not restricted to images (e.g., longdesk). We have somewhere else in the table where solution is not widely used, but the proposal is for a solution that no one is using.

... the first "no" is not restricted to images (e.g., longdesk). We have somewhere else in the table where solution is not widely used, but the proposal is for a solution that no one is using. ←

04:23:10 <HeatherF_> ... This could be improved by being more fine-grained with the yes's and no's

... This could be improved by being more fine-grained with the yes's and no's ←

04:23:28 <HeatherF_> MichaelC: The first table is a description of the approaches; we could add data there. It is a seven-dimensional table.

Unknown MichaelC: The first table is a description of the approaches; we could add data there. It is a seven-dimensional table. ←

04:23:44 <HeatherF_> ... we can't rule something out only because there are no's in this one column in the table.

... we can't rule something out only because there are no's in this one column in the table. ←

04:24:13 <HeatherF_> ... One of the lower down table tries to get into whether things are, or are likely, to be implemented in use agents. That's a proxy for whether people do/don't like the approach.

... One of the lower down table tries to get into whether things are, or are likely, to be implemented in use agents. That's a proxy for whether people do/don't like the approach. ←

04:24:38 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

04:24:49 <HeatherF_> ... If something passes the use cases but fails the likely-to-be-implemented, we need further discussion on why

... If something passes the use cases but fails the likely-to-be-implemented, we need further discussion on why ←

04:25:06 <HeatherF_> ... Table after that is an attempt to get to that (e.g., is this easy/hard to implement?)

... Table after that is an attempt to get to that (e.g., is this easy/hard to implement?) ←

04:25:24 <HeatherF_> ivan: looking at a table, would put the web annotation column in a slightly different format. It is different from the others.

Unknown ivan: looking at a table, would put the web annotation column in a slightly different format. It is different from the others. ←

04:25:48 <HeatherF_> ... it is an abstract model, so it feels like comparing apples and oranges.

... it is an abstract model, so it feels like comparing apples and oranges. ←

04:26:04 <HeatherF_> MichaelC: Figure with details is another mechanism being proposed.

Unknown MichaelC: Figure with details is another mechanism being proposed. ←

04:26:27 <HeatherF_> ivan: but this has nothing to do with markup. Maybe we will have markup for webannotation, but that has not been decided. We also have no idea if any browser will implement it.

Unknown ivan: but this has nothing to do with markup. Maybe we will have markup for webannotation, but that has not been decided. We also have no idea if any browser will implement it. ←

04:26:52 <HeatherF_> MichaelC: that's why subsequent tables say "not likely to be implemented in the future". We shouldn't put too much weight on this table; it's a discussion exercise not a decision

Unknown MichaelC: that's why subsequent tables say "not likely to be implemented in the future". We shouldn't put too much weight on this table; it's a discussion exercise not a decision ←

04:27:09 <HeatherF_> tzviya: there are a few things here that can be considered generic elements.

Tzviya Siegman: there are a few things here that can be considered generic elements. ←

04:27:42 <HeatherF_> ... Instead of walking through different elements and seeing what works/doesn't today, we should talk about how we want to proceed.

... Instead of walking through different elements and seeing what works/doesn't today, we should talk about how we want to proceed. ←

04:27:54 <HeatherF_> ... DPUB has given ARIA a bunch of information; what else would you like?

... DPUB has given ARIA a bunch of information; what else would you like? ←

04:28:15 <HeatherF_> MichaelC: Haven't gotten feedback from other groups. This is the only feedback that hasn't been incorporated yet into the ARIA table.

Unknown MichaelC: Haven't gotten feedback from other groups. This is the only feedback that hasn't been incorporated yet into the ARIA table. ←

04:28:34 <HeatherF_> ... Not looking for more input specifically from DPUB.

... Not looking for more input specifically from DPUB. ←

04:29:20 <HeatherF_> ... We aren't yet at the point to make decisions. This is now a heavy discussion phase.

... We aren't yet at the point to make decisions. This is now a heavy discussion phase. ←

04:29:43 <HeatherF_> ... Pick 3-4 of the approaches most likely to succeed, and then start having discussion with stakeholders specifically on those.

... Pick 3-4 of the approaches most likely to succeed, and then start having discussion with stakeholders specifically on those. ←

04:30:20 <HeatherF_> ... We will ask them to provide details about how their specific implementation might meet the use cases, if they argue for their position.

... We will ask them to provide details about how their specific implementation might meet the use cases, if they argue for their position. ←

04:30:33 <HeatherF_> tzviya: Hoping Mark can give an overview on what he's been doing.

Tzviya Siegman: Hoping Mark can give an overview on what he's been doing. ←

04:31:17 <HeatherF_> Mark: Am with ETS, doing educational assessments. We author and produce educational tests for K-12 to university entrance exams and workforce exams.

Scribe problem: the name 'Mark' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Mark: Am with ETS, doing educational assessments. We author and produce educational tests for K-12 to university entrance exams and workforce exams. ←

04:31:26 <HeatherF_> ... Much of the work comes out of the ???

... Much of the work comes out of the IMS Global Consortium ←

04:31:40 <HeatherF_> ... In almost all cases, the assessments are delivered via web technologies and browsers.

... In almost all cases, the assessments are delivered via web technologies and browsers. ←

04:31:55 <HeatherF_> ... We are looking at how to use models out of the QTI world in the web world.

... We are looking at how to use models out of the QTI world in the web world. ←

04:32:26 <HeatherF_> ... We're motivated to do this because different testing orgs will implement the test items in all manner of HTML implementations, leaving poor interop and poor user experience

... We're motivated to do this because different testing orgs will implement the test items in all manner of HTML implementations, leaving poor interop and poor user experience ←

04:32:36 <tzviya> s/???/IMS Global Consortium

04:33:02 <HeatherF_> ... Started to tackle something different in a prototyping effort: the need to provide extended/alternat descriptions for images.

... Started to tackle something different in a prototyping effort: the need to provide extended/alternat descriptions for images. ←

04:33:30 <HeatherF_> ... So, took a tool called diagrammer that include a variety of information that described an image.

... So, took a tool called diagrammer that include a variety of information that described an image. ←

04:33:56 <HeatherF_> ... How do we get that into the HTML? We dont' have anything that is reliable for long descriptions, for example.

... How do we get that into the HTML? We dont' have anything that is reliable for long descriptions, for example. ←

04:34:05 <tzviya> diagrammar: http://diagramcenter.org/standards-and-practices/content-model.html

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Unknown diagrammar: http://diagramcenter.org/standards-and-practices/content-model.html [ Scribe Assist by Tzviya Siegman ] ←

04:34:30 <HeatherF_> ... So, took the diagrammer content model and tried to apply it to HTML. Could then build a prototype object.

... So, took the diagrammar content model and tried to apply it to HTML. Could then build a prototype object. ←

04:34:55 <HeatherF_> ... Allowed for some interesting UI development based on the existence of information in this model.

... Allowed for some interesting UI development based on the existence of information in this model. ←

04:34:56 <tzviya> s/diagrammer/diagrammar

04:35:04 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

04:35:42 <HeatherF_> Mark: next step is that IMS is looking at a new version of QTI and the custom element model is being actively considered as a part of that.

Unknown Mark: next step is that IMS is looking at a new version of QTI and the custom element model is being actively considered as a part of that. ←

04:35:51 <HeatherF_> tzviya: are you translating APIC into ARIA?

Tzviya Siegman: are you translating APIP into ARIA? ←

04:36:01 <HeatherF_> s/APIC/APIP

04:36:36 <HeatherF_> Mark: APIP was not a well designed approach, so we are diligently trying to transform the best principles of APIP and transforming it for the next version of QTI.

Unknown Mark: APIP was not a well designed approach, so we are diligently trying to transform the best principles of APIP and transforming it for the next version of QTI. ←

04:36:45 <clapierre> q+

Charles LaPierre: q+ ←

04:37:13 <HeatherF_> ivan: At this moment, custom elements is something that is available in Chrome, but no other browser implements it.

Unknown ivan: At this moment, custom elements is something that is available in Chrome, but no other browser implements it. ←

04:37:21 <HeatherF_> ... We are on very shaky ground with this.

... We are on very shaky ground with this. ←

04:37:51 <HeatherF_> ??? there are issues with custom elements being worked on, and there is progress being made

hober there are issues with custom elements being worked on, and there is progress being made ←

04:37:59 <astearns> s/???/hober/

04:38:01 <tzviya> s/???/hober

04:38:06 <HeatherF_> ... When will it be ready? who knows?

... When will it be ready? who knows? ←

04:39:10 <HeatherF_> Mark: looking at a fallback using detail elements and scripting

Unknown Mark: looking at a fallback using detail elements and scripting ←

04:39:31 <HeatherF_> ... We do have a pressing need to solve this problem. Having every vendor of assessments coming up with their own approach will be a Bad Thing.

... We do have a pressing need to solve this problem. Having every vendor of assessments coming up with their own approach will be a Bad Thing. ←

04:39:33 <tzviya> hober: the existing implementation that polymer is built on will probably be incopmatible

Scribe problem: the name 'hober' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hober: the existing implementation that polymer is built on will probably be incopmatible [ Scribe Assist by Tzviya Siegman ] ←

04:39:51 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

04:39:55 <tzviya> ack cl

Tzviya Siegman: ack cl ←

04:40:12 <HeatherF_> clapierre: Beniteck is going to be working with mark's team to take the custom elements and take it to readium for a solution.

Charles LaPierre: Benetech is going to be working with mark's team to take the custom elements and take it to readium for a solution. ←

04:40:42 <clapierre> s/Benitech/Benetech/

Charles LaPierre: s/Benitech/Benetech/ (warning: replacement failed) ←

04:40:43 <liam> s/Beniteck/Benetech/

04:40:51 <HeatherF_> tzviya: In the DPU module of ARIA, we have several roles that have questions (e.g., *ref)

Tzviya Siegman: In the DPU module of ARIA, we have several roles that have questions (e.g., *ref) ←

04:41:14 <HeatherF_> ... there has been a suggestion to replace with rel* attributes or use something from the COBA (?) model

... there has been a suggestion to replace with rel* attributes or use something from the COGA (?) model ←

04:41:23 <hober> s/COBA/COGA/g

04:42:02 <HeatherF_> ivan: Talking about rel*, I have offered conflicting opinions. Current position is that it is not appropriate.

Unknown ivan: Talking about rel = " ", I have offered conflicting opinions. Current position is that it is not appropriate. ←

04:42:02 <tzviya> http://www.w3.org/TR/dpub-aria-1.0/

Tzviya Siegman: http://www.w3.org/TR/dpub-aria-1.0/ ←

04:42:27 <tzviya> s/rel*/rel = " "

04:42:39 <HeatherF_> ... You can find yourself in a situation where a value used in the rel attribute can be misinterpreted by an RDFa processor, because the RDFa uses the value of a rel attribute under certain circumstances

... You can find yourself in a situation where a value used in the rel attribute can be misinterpreted by an RDFa processor, because the RDFa uses the value of a rel attribute under certain circumstances ←

04:43:18 <HeatherF_> ... this is a consideration that cannot be ignored.

... this is a consideration that cannot be ignored. ←

04:43:36 <HeatherF_> ... Using rel for a possibly large number of additional values around ARIA may be a very dangerous proposition

... Using rel for a possibly large number of additional values around ARIA may be a very dangerous proposition ←

04:43:55 <HeatherF_> MichaelC: we don't have consensus on that yet.

Unknown MichaelC: we don't have consensus on that yet. ←

04:44:21 <HeatherF_> ivan: we discussed on the mailing list re: defining it, but that has more of a social aspect to it. My problem is more a purely technical situation.

Unknown ivan: we discussed on the mailing list re: defining it, but that has more of a social aspect to it. My problem is more a purely technical situation. ←

04:44:27 <HeatherF_> tzviya: if we used rel, it would break things.

Tzviya Siegman: if we used rel, it would break things. ←

04:44:56 <HeatherF_> ??? COGA is not part of the picture. They worked their way into the conversation because part of their remit

Janina COGA is not part of the picture. They worked their way into the conversation because part of their remit ←

04:45:27 <liam> s/???/Janina/

04:45:30 <HeatherF_> ... As they were roadmapping and blue-skying, they were creating attributes. The conversation then went away from requirements, but whether this was an appropriate application of ARIA technology

... As they were roadmapping and blue-skying, they were creating attributes. The conversation then went away from requirements, but whether this was an appropriate application of ARIA technology ←

04:45:36 <tzviya> s/???/Janina

04:45:52 <HeatherF_> Janina: we asked them a few days ago for clarification, and asked them to reset their examples that does not use ARIA

Scribe problem: the name 'Janina' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Janina: we asked them a few days ago for clarification, and asked them to reset their examples that does not use ARIA ←

04:46:06 <HeatherF_> ... i.e., just call it coga-[something]

... i.e., just call it coga-[something] ←

04:46:28 <tzviya> COGA TF of WAI: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/

Tzviya Siegman: COGA TF of WAI: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/ ←

04:46:46 <HeatherF_> ... At least lay out the overall pictures of what the problems and opportunities are, so we as W3C can look collaboratively on how to extend the benefits of web technology to people with disabilities

... At least lay out the overall pictures of what the problems and opportunities are, so we as W3C can look collaboratively on how to extend the benefits of web technology to people with disabilities ←

04:47:13 <HeatherF_> ... we haven't really served that community well to date

... we haven't really served that community well to date ←

04:47:27 <HeatherF_> ivan: we get back to th original issue, which is what do we do with ref from the DPUB side

Unknown ivan: we get back to th original issue, which is what do we do with ref from the DPUB side ←

04:47:47 <HeatherF_> tzviya: A number of people rejected these roles, whereas people outside the W3C asked for these roles?

Tzviya Siegman: A number of people rejected these roles, whereas people outside the W3C asked for these roles? ←

04:48:11 <HeatherF_> Janina: We tried to get to unanimity, but we don't always succeed. W3C does not require unanimity, it requires consensus.

Unknown Janina: We tried to get to unanimity, but we don't always succeed. W3C does not require unanimity, it requires consensus. ←

04:48:32 <HeatherF_> ... We have to decide at some point and move forward, and we do that on preponderance of opinion, not unanimity

... We have to decide at some point and move forward, and we do that on preponderance of opinion, not unanimity ←

04:48:48 <HeatherF_> tzviya: Yes. We are interested in doing this well. If there are reasons not to include those roles, we need to give it seirous thought.

Tzviya Siegman: Yes. We are interested in doing this well. If there are reasons not to include those roles, we need to give it seirous thought. ←

04:49:02 <HeatherF_> ... The rel thing sounded appealing, but if it causes more harm than good, then we shouldn't do it.

... The rel thing sounded appealing, but if it causes more harm than good, then we shouldn't do it. ←

04:49:28 <HeatherF_> Janina: It got close exampination; if the facts were wrong, then we need to fix that. But if th efacts are right, then we need to move forward with aria-

Unknown Janina: It got close exampination; if the facts were wrong, then we need to fix that. But if th efacts are right, then we need to move forward with aria- ←

04:49:49 <HeatherF_> ... Due diligence is what the process requires, and that has been applied.

... Due diligence is what the process requires, and that has been applied. ←

04:50:12 <HeatherF_> tzviya: While we're on the topic of the DPUB-ARIA module, we have a few outstanding issues (but nothing major aside from the API mappings)

Tzviya Siegman: While we're on the topic of the DPUB-ARIA module, we have a few outstanding issues (but nothing major aside from the API mappings) ←

04:50:40 <HeatherF_> ... we have a timeline for a second public working draft. Is there anything standing in our way with that draft, modulo those few outstanding issues?

... we have a timeline for a second public working draft. Is there anything standing in our way with that draft, modulo those few outstanding issues? ←

04:50:49 <HeatherF_> Janina: No, we should be able to go forward

Unknown Janina: No, we should be able to go forward ←

04:51:02 <HeatherF_> hober: publishing working drafts more often than not is what we should be doing

Unknown hober: publishing working drafts more often than not is what we should be doing ←

04:51:14 <HeatherF_> ivan: since the prefix has changed, we need to get this out sooner rather than later

Unknown ivan: since the prefix has changed, we need to get this out sooner rather than later ←

04:51:48 <HeatherF_> Mark: Have been looking at the spec, and playing with the aria- role description. It might be interesting to build some of those examples into the next draft.

Unknown Mark: Have been looking at the spec, and playing with the aria- role description. It might be interesting to build some of those examples into the next draft. ←

04:52:02 <HeatherF_> tzviya: yes, the draft needs examples.

Tzviya Siegman: yes, the draft needs examples. ←

04:52:09 <HeatherF_> Mark: have examples to share.

Unknown Mark: have examples to share. ←

04:52:51 <HeatherF_> ivan: there is a group in Bologna that are developing a profile for scholarly publishing. They use these terms with the latest prefix as structure in the article.

Unknown ivan: there is a group in Bologna that are developing a profile for scholarly publishing. They use these terms with the latest prefix as structure in the article. ←

04:53:11 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

04:53:40 <HeatherF_> Mark: We were talking about our use of QTI; one of the reasons we asked for ARIA role descriptions is to help users by impacting the UI. e.g., make a question sound like a question

Unknown Mark: We were talking about our use of QTI; one of the reasons we asked for ARIA role descriptions is to help users by impacting the UI. e.g., make a question sound like a question ←

04:54:00 <HeatherF_> ... So, existing aria role plus role description gets us most of the way there, rather than bringing in new roles

... So, existing aria role plus role description gets us most of the way there, rather than bringing in new roles ←

04:54:41 <HeatherF_> tzviya: the public review period ended over a month ago for this draft. Would love to look at Mark's examples and at various implementations, but we don't want to abuse aria

Tzviya Siegman: the public review period ended over a month ago for this draft. Would love to look at Mark's examples and at various implementations, but we don't want to abuse aria ←

04:55:07 <HeatherF_> ... if the whole vocabularly can be duplciated with role descriptions, and can convey the information for more than just the audio reader...

... if the whole vocabularly can be duplciated with role descriptions, and can convey the information for more than just the audio reader... ←

04:55:20 <MichaelC> q+ to mention pub timeline

Unknown MichaelC: q+ to mention pub timeline ←

04:55:47 <HeatherF_> Mark: We have had the discussions on how to bring semantics of HTML back when we talked about DAISY. There must be a mechanism for bring semantics in, but still uncomfortable with overburdening roles.

Unknown Mark: We have had the discussions on how to bring semantics of HTML back when we talked about DAISY. There must be a mechanism for bring semantics in, but still uncomfortable with overburdening roles. ←

04:55:54 <tzviya> ack michael

Tzviya Siegman: ack michael ←

04:55:54 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to mention pub timeline

Zakim IRC Bot: MichaelC, you wanted to mention pub timeline ←

04:56:21 <HeatherF_> MichaelC: The likelihood on imiment feedback on one topic doesn't mean we shouldn't go ahead and publish. We can always do a third draft.

Unknown MichaelC: The likelihood on imminent feedback on one topic doesn't mean we shouldn't go ahead and publish. We can always do a third draft. ←

04:56:35 <HeatherF_> s/imiment/imminent

04:57:04 <HeatherF_> MichaelC: the ARIA group is going to do a lot of work after TPAC, but it would be great to work with the revised draft.

Unknown MichaelC: the ARIA group is going to do a lot of work after TPAC, but it would be great to work with the revised draft. ←

04:57:21 <HeatherF_> tzviya: need to check with markus, and see mark's examples

Tzviya Siegman: need to check with markus, and see mark's examples ←

04:57:56 <HeatherF_> tzviya: We are working on a revision of EPUB. We would like to incorporate this into the EPUB 3.1 revision. Hoping to have that finalized within the year.

Tzviya Siegman: We are working on a revision of EPUB. We would like to incorporate this into the EPUB 3.1 revision. Hoping to have that finalized within the year. ←

04:58:21 <HeatherF_> ... We have added an errata to 3.1 re: describedat, but we don't have anything to replace it with.

... We have added an errata to 3.1 re: describedat, but we don't have anything to replace it with. ←

04:58:33 <HeatherF_> MichaelC: describedat is not entirely off the table, but it's not solidly on it either

Unknown MichaelC: describedat is not entirely off the table, but it's not solidly on it either ←

04:58:57 <HeatherF_> ... You would like us to resolve extended descriptions sooner rather than later to help with the EPUB 3.1 spec

... You would like us to resolve extended descriptions sooner rather than later to help with the EPUB 3.1 spec ←

04:59:02 <HeatherF_> Janina: Who would work on that?

Unknown Janina: Who would work on that? ←

04:59:11 <HeatherF_> tzvia: ARIA, not DPUB.

Scribe problem: the name 'tvziya' does not match any of the 15 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Tzviya Siegman Karen Myers Unknown Yoshii_Jun-ichi Charles LaPierre Dave Cramer Heather Flanagan Jeff Xu Shinyu Murakami Richard Ishida Unknown Takeshi_Kanai Unknown Felix_Sasaki Unknown Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown tvziya: ARIA, not DPUB. ←

04:59:20 <HeatherF_> MichaelC: ARIA shouldn't do it by themselves.

Unknown MichaelC: ARIA shouldn't do it by themselves. ←

04:59:44 <tzviya> s/tzvia/tvziya

04:59:50 <HeatherF_> Janina: This needs a home. APA's role is to make sure this happens, so we'll work on coordinating. But we need decisions.

Unknown Janina: This needs a home. APA's role is to make sure this happens, so we'll work on coordinating. But we need decisions. ←

04:59:58 <tzviya> s/tvziya/tzviya

05:00:01 <HeatherF_> MichaelC: We can only make good decisions based on information we have.

Unknown MichaelC: We can only make good decisions based on information we have. ←

05:00:10 <HeatherF_> (sorry, tzviya)

(sorry, tzviya) ←

05:00:46 <HeatherF_> Janina: we are trying to get more feedback and discussion, but we are reaching (have reached?) topic exhaustion

Unknown Janina: we are trying to get more feedback and discussion, but we are reaching (have reached?) topic exhaustion ←

05:00:53 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

05:01:20 <HeatherF_> tzviya: That was what we had on the agenda.

Tzviya Siegman: That was what we had on the agenda. ←

05:01:33 <HeatherF_> Janina: Ted, you are ok with details?

Unknown Janina: Ted, you are ok with details? ←

05:01:36 <HeatherF_> hober: yes.

Unknown hober: yes. ←

05:01:56 <HeatherF_> tzviya: Next up - wrap up and action items for the DPUB meeting

Tzviya Siegman: Next up - wrap up and action items for the DPUB meeting ←

05:03:08 <HeatherF_> ... DPUB-ARIA will have a meeting this coming week and discuss publication of the draft

... DPUB-ARIA will have a meeting this coming week and discuss publication of the draft ←

05:03:18 <ivan> Topic: Housekeeping

3. Housekeeping

05:03:35 <HeatherF_> tzviya: Great turnout at this meeting.

Tzviya Siegman: Great turnout at this meeting. ←

05:03:57 <HeatherF_> ... two years ago, that wouldn't have happened. But the amount of work has increased too

... two years ago, that wouldn't have happened. But the amount of work has increased too ←

05:04:50 <HeatherF_> ... some highlights: Dave now has friends from DPUB in CSS (e.g., Florian, Allen).

... some highlights: Dave now has friends from DPUB in CSS (e.g., Florian, Allen). ←

05:05:01 <HeatherF_> ... we will clean up the priorities document and have more communciation with the CSS group

... we will clean up the priorities document and have more communciation with the CSS group ←

05:05:12 <HeatherF_> ... will try to have more conversations with our math friends

... will try to have more conversations with our math friends ←

05:05:53 <HeatherF_> ivan: the CSS WG needs very clear example of what typesetting means for publishers, and what can be achieved compared to that with current tools

Unknown ivan: the CSS WG needs very clear example of what typesetting means for publishers, and what can be achieved compared to that with current tools ←

05:06:09 <Florian> q+

Unknown Florian: q+ ←

05:06:29 <HeatherF_> ... This kind of documentation as part of the prioritization is importnt

... This kind of documentation as part of the prioritization is importnt ←

05:06:40 <tzviya> ack fl

Tzviya Siegman: ack fl ←

05:07:04 <HeatherF_> Florian: bringing the examples is important. The people who bring them will need to understand them very well, since CSS will ask very detailed questions about why things were designed the way they were

Unknown Florian: bringing the examples is important. The people who bring them will need to understand them very well, since CSS will ask very detailed questions about why things were designed the way they were ←

05:07:24 <HeatherF_> tzviya: We will be bringing examples at least in English and Japanese, and hopefully other languages.

Tzviya Siegman: We will be bringing examples at least in English and Japanese, and hopefully other languages. ←

05:07:38 <HeatherF_> ... In the session with Daniel, we started a community group on the Publishing Object Model

... In the session with Daniel, we started a community group on the Publishing Object Model ←

05:07:51 <HeatherF_> ... Daniel will work on creating sample files.

... Daniel will work on creating sample files. ←

05:07:54 <tzviya> q?

Tzviya Siegman: q? ←

05:08:40 <HeatherF_> ... That overlaps with the work happening in this group and the IGBF. There needs to be communication between these groups.

... That overlaps with the work happening in this group and the IGBF. There needs to be communication between these groups. ←

05:09:28 <HeatherF_> ivan: During the 3.1 discussion, there was one aspect that came up re: the analysis of 3.1 hope that the ??? will abstract out what the manifest needs for more than just EPUB

Unknown ivan: During the 3.1 discussion, there was one aspect that came up re: the analysis of 3.1 hope that the ??? will abstract out what the manifest needs for more than just EPUB ←

05:10:08 <HeatherF_> tzviya: Jake came to talk about Service Workers, and discussed details. Explained to us that accessing the file may not be what Service Workers are going to do.

Tzviya Siegman: Jake came to talk about Service Workers, and discussed details. Explained to us that accessing the file may not be what Service Workers are going to do. ←

05:10:31 <HeatherF_> ... We filed some issues on github on the portable web document. Jake offered to create some samples for us.

... We filed some issues on github on the portable web document. Jake offered to create some samples for us. ←

05:11:24 <HeatherF_> Florian: He proposed to create a pair of applciations. One where you can go online and read online, and one where you read offline and can export. The second part of the application would be consuming it and preserving integrity.

Unknown Florian: He proposed to create a pair of applciations. One where you can go online and read online, and one where you read offline and can export. The second part of the application would be consuming it and preserving integrity. ←

05:11:36 <HeatherF_> ivan: if he does that, we owe him more than cookies

Unknown ivan: if he does that, we owe him more than cookies ←

05:13:45 <HeatherF_> tzviya: In our session with Karen re: education and outreach, we all have action items to write, blog, inform.

Tzviya Siegman: In our session with Karen re: education and outreach, we all have action items to write, blog, inform. ←

05:13:55 <HeatherF_> ... If you know of conferences or industry organizations, let Karen know

... If you know of conferences or industry organizations, let Karen know ←

05:14:21 <HeatherF_> ivan: regarding identifiers, we have many questions.

Unknown ivan: regarding identifiers, we have many questions. ←

05:14:59 <HeatherF_> ... it seems to be unavoidable that for decent usage of portable publications, we need a manifest. So we need to know what a manifest should/must/may include.

... it seems to be unavoidable that for decent usage of portable publications, we need a manifest. So we need to know what a manifest should/must/may include. ←

05:15:29 <HeatherF_> tzviya: With ARIA, we will continue discussions.

Tzviya Siegman: With ARIA, we will continue discussions. ←

05:16:03 <HeatherF_> ... It was good to see everyone here and participating. But our mailing list doesn't reflect the energy and enthusiam. It takes someone frustrating us to get us active.

... It was good to see everyone here and participating. But our mailing list doesn't reflect the energy and enthusiam. It takes someone frustrating us to get us active. ←

05:16:25 <HeatherF_> ... You don't need to wait until the weekly calls to talk about issues. If you have a question/idea/thought/haiku about TPAC send it to the list.

... You don't need to wait until the weekly calls to talk about issues. If you have a question/idea/thought/haiku about TPAC send it to the list. ←

05:16:36 <HeatherF_> ... Let's get work done ON THE LIST.

... Let's get work done ON THE LIST. ←

05:17:34 <HeatherF_> ... The work needs to be distributed to more participants.

... The work needs to be distributed to more participants. ←

05:18:32 <HeatherF_> ivan: One thing that came up yesterday. We have been using this time slot for calls for a few years, knowing that for people on the west coast that it's not idea.

Unknown ivan: One thing that came up yesterday. We have been using this time slot for calls for a few years, knowing that for people on the west coast that it's not ideal. ←

05:18:38 <HeatherF_> s/idea/ideal

05:19:18 <HeatherF_> ... Maybe it's time to look at the time again given the evolution of participants?

... Maybe it's time to look at the time again given the evolution of participants? ←

05:19:59 <HeatherF_> ... The India office had a similar problem and tried to create a time convenient to them. We set up an infrastructure to support that, but it ended up not be used.

... The India office had a similar problem and tried to create a time convenient to them. We set up an infrastructure to support that, but it ended up not be used. ←

05:20:33 <HeatherF_> ... We could try an east asian collection, but whether that would be successful or not not sure.

... We could try an east asian collection, but whether that would be successful or not not sure. ←

05:20:39 <HeatherF_> ... This will require more thought and discussion

... This will require more thought and discussion ←

05:20:41 <HeatherF_> (ON THE LIST)

(ON THE LIST) ←

05:21:21 <HeatherF_> Florian: two meetings probably wouldn't work unless the core people attended both, which is not realistic

Unknown Florian: two meetings probably wouldn't work unless the core people attended both, which is not realistic ←

05:21:58 <HeatherF_> tzviya: May have a regular time and one alternate time a month. Will discuss ON THE LIST

Tzviya Siegman: May have a regular time and one alternate time a month. Will discuss ON THE LIST ←

05:22:22 <ivan> ---- adjurned

Unknown ivan: ---- adjurned ←

05:22:31 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes

Unknown ivan: rrsagent, draft minutes ←

05:22:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-dpub-minutes.html ivan

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-dpub-minutes.html ivan ←

Formatted by CommonScribe