Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

Minutes of 10 February 2014

Present
Alan Stearns, Ben Ko, Bert Bos, Bill Kasdorf, Brady Duga, Dave Cramer, Dmitry Shkolnik, Frederick Hirsch, Gerardo Capiel, Ivan Herman, Jean Kaplansky, Karen Myers, Laura Fowler, Liza Daly, Luc Audrain, Madi Solomon, Markus Gylling, Phil Madans, Robert Sanderson, Thierry Michel, Tzviya Siegman.
Regrets
Markus Gylling, Vladimir Levantovsky, Jean Kaplansky, Julie Morris
Scribe
Robert Sanderson
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics


Liza Daly: I pointed to the wrong URL in the agenda, my apologies

15:51:26 <lizadaly> We're discussing Pagination/DOM interaction under http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory

Liza Daly: We're discussing Pagination/DOM interaction under http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory

15:55:42 <ivan> zakim, code?

Ivan Herman: zakim, code?

15:55:42 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan

15:56:18 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started

15:56:25 <Zakim> +MIT531

Zakim IRC Bot: +MIT531

15:56:47 <ivan> zakim, MIT531 holds ivan, liza

Ivan Herman: zakim, MIT531 holds ivan, liza

15:56:47 <Zakim> +ivan, liza; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ivan, liza; got it

15:56:54 <ivan> zakim, who is here?

Ivan Herman: zakim, who is here?

15:56:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see MIT531

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see MIT531

15:56:55 <Zakim> MIT531 has ivan, liza

Zakim IRC Bot: MIT531 has ivan, liza

15:56:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see philm, fjh, lizadaly, Zakim, RRSAgent, dauwhe, marilyn, cwdoh, ivan, liam, astearns, plinss, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see philm, fjh, lizadaly, Zakim, RRSAgent, dauwhe, marilyn, cwdoh, ivan, liam, astearns, plinss, trackbot

15:57:29 <Zakim> +dauwhe

Zakim IRC Bot: +dauwhe

15:57:38 <dauwhe> Zakim, unmute me

Dave Cramer: Zakim, unmute me

15:57:38 <Zakim> dauwhe was not muted, dauwhe

Zakim IRC Bot: dauwhe was not muted, dauwhe

15:58:03 <Zakim> +Marilyn

Zakim IRC Bot: +Marilyn

15:58:23 <Zakim> +Philm

Zakim IRC Bot: +Philm

15:59:03 <Zakim> -Philm

Zakim IRC Bot: -Philm

15:59:28 <Zakim> +azaroth

Zakim IRC Bot: +azaroth

15:59:45 <Zakim> +Philm

Zakim IRC Bot: +Philm

15:59:45 <azaroth> zakim, am I muted?

Robert Sanderson: zakim, am I muted?

15:59:47 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, azaroth.

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, azaroth.

15:59:52 <azaroth> zakim, who is muted

Robert Sanderson: zakim, who is muted

15:59:52 <Zakim> azaroth, you need to end that query with '?'

Zakim IRC Bot: azaroth, you need to end that query with '?'

15:59:55 <azaroth> zakim, who is muted?

Robert Sanderson: zakim, who is muted?

15:59:55 <Zakim> I see no one muted

Zakim IRC Bot: I see no one muted

15:59:57 <Zakim> +Tzviya

Zakim IRC Bot: +Tzviya

16:00:05 <azaroth> zakim, thanks for not muting us all!

Robert Sanderson: zakim, thanks for not muting us all!

16:00:05 <Zakim> I don't understand 'thanks for not muting us all!', azaroth

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'thanks for not muting us all!', azaroth

16:00:07 <Zakim> +Bill_Kasdorf

Zakim IRC Bot: +Bill_Kasdorf

16:00:07 <Zakim> +duga

Zakim IRC Bot: +duga

16:00:17 <Zakim> + +33.1.41.23.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +33.1.41.23.aaaa

16:00:19 <ivan> zakim, you are not polite...

Ivan Herman: zakim, you are not polite...

16:00:20 <Zakim> I don't understand 'you are not polite', ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'you are not polite', ivan

16:00:44 <ivan> regrets: Markus, Vlad, JeanKaplansky
16:00:53 <lizadaly> SCRIIIIIIIIBE

Liza Daly: SCRIIIIIIIIBE

16:01:03 <Zakim> +Stearns

Zakim IRC Bot: +Stearns

16:01:09 <Zakim> + +1.917.447.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.917.447.aabb

16:01:28 <ivan> zakim, aabb is benjaminsko

Ivan Herman: zakim, aabb is benjaminsko

16:01:28 <Zakim> +benjaminsko; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +benjaminsko; got it

16:01:45 <lizadaly> zakim, pick a victim

Liza Daly: zakim, pick a victim

16:01:45 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose azaroth

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose azaroth

16:01:51 <azaroth> thanks Zakim

Robert Sanderson: thanks Zakim

16:02:06 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:02:07 <azaroth> scribe: azaroth

(Scribe set to Robert Sanderson)

16:02:08 <fjh> zakim, IPcaller is me

Frederick Hirsch: zakim, IPcaller is me

16:02:08 <Zakim> +fjh; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +fjh; got it

16:02:10 <ivan> scribenick: azaroth
16:02:34 <Zakim> +??P3

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3

16:02:41 <tmichel> zakim, ??P3 is me

Thierry Michel: zakim, ??P3 is me

16:02:41 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +tmichel; got it

16:03:00 <azaroth> Liza:  Can we approve the previous minutes?

Liza Daly: Can we approve the previous minutes?

16:03:11 <azaroth> ... Assuming no objections? Okay... approved.

... Assuming no objections? Okay... approved.

16:03:13 <Zakim> +Bert

Zakim IRC Bot: +Bert

16:03:25 <Zakim> +LFowler

Zakim IRC Bot: +LFowler

16:03:29 <azaroth> ... There were corrections that Karen missed in the previous set. Don't know if they've been updated or not

... There were corrections that Karen missed in the previous set. Don't know if they've been updated or not

16:03:38 <azaroth> ???: They've not been updated, so we should leave

Thierry Michel: They've not been updated, so we should leave

16:03:48 <azaroth> Liza: That's fine. Markus isn't back till next week

Liza Daly: That's fine. Markus isn't back till next week

16:03:55 <ivan> s/???/tmichel/
16:03:59 <tmichel> s/???/tmichel
16:04:13 <lizadaly> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory

Liza Daly: http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory

16:04:23 <azaroth> ... Okay, there are use cases for pagination posted at the bottom of the use case directory. About 6 of them from Brady

... Okay, there are use cases for pagination posted at the bottom of the use case directory. About 6 of them from Brady

16:04:33 <astearns> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Pagination.2FDOM_interaction

Alan Stearns: http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Pagination.2FDOM_interaction

16:04:39 <azaroth> ... he isn't going to lead the task force so one goal is to find an owner to shepherd them

... he isn't going to lead the task force so one goal is to find an owner to shepherd them

16:04:54 <azaroth> ... Brady would you mind talking us through the goals for the TF?

... Brady would you mind talking us through the goals for the TF?

16:05:13 <Zakim> + +1.415.832.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.415.832.aacc

16:05:21 <azaroth> brady: This game up in China. We talked a lot about how you style a page, Dave is doing latineq and lots of work being done in CSS

Brady Duga: This came up in China. We talked a lot about how you style a page, Dave is doing latineq and lots of work being done in CSS

16:05:36 <azaroth> ... but for reading system we need to know more than just how to break it into pages, but also how to reference a page

... but for reading system we need to know more than just how to break it into pages, but also how to reference a page

16:05:40 <dshkolnik> Zakim, aacc is dshkolnik

Dmitry Shkolnik: Zakim, aacc is dshkolnik

16:05:40 <Zakim> +dshkolnik; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +dshkolnik; got it

16:05:42 <astearns> s/game/came/
16:05:58 <dshkolnik> Zakim, mute me

Dmitry Shkolnik: Zakim, mute me

16:05:58 <Zakim> dshkolnik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: dshkolnik should now be muted

16:06:09 <azaroth> ... so have to trick things into thinking that they're pages.  RS needs to know how many pages are in the document, how to change the page size, display multiple pages at the same time

... so have to trick things into thinking that they're pages. RS needs to know how many pages are in the document, how to change the page size, display multiple pages at the same time

16:06:18 <azaroth> ... some sort of object model for what a page is and how to refer to it

... some sort of object model for what a page is and how to refer to it

16:06:30 <dauwhe> q+

Dave Cramer: q+

16:06:33 <azaroth> ... that's the use cases.  In China I was asked to write up a few, which are now on the wiki

... that's the use cases. In China I was asked to write up a few, which are now on the wiki

16:06:41 <azaroth> ... goes beyond style, into a model.

... goes beyond style, into a model.

16:06:46 <Zakim> +??P28

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P28

16:07:00 <azaroth> Liza:  Assumption is it's about how a RS would behave, not necessarily how it would be supplied?

Liza Daly: Assumption is it's about how a RS would behave, not necessarily how it would be supplied?

16:07:16 <azaroth> Brady: Wrote as a RS implementer, but could be use cases from the publisher side

Brady Duga: Wrote as a RS implementer, but could be use cases from the publisher side

16:07:17 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:07:25 <gcapiel> Zakim, ??P28 is Me

Gerardo Capiel: Zakim, ??P28 is Me

16:07:26 <Zakim> +gcapiel; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +gcapiel; got it

16:07:48 <azaroth> ... Publisher has lots of style issues, but also may need to know about where pages are and how they work. Esp if there's javascript

... Publisher has lots of style issues, but also may need to know about where pages are and how they work. Esp if there's javascript

16:07:59 <lizadaly> ack dauwhe

Liza Daly: ack dauwhe

16:08:02 <azaroth> ... a JS widget that needs to know how many pages there are, the publisher would be interested

... a JS widget that needs to know how many pages there are, the publisher would be interested

16:08:33 <azaroth> dauwhe: A couple of things from CSS point of view, some discussion about this sort of thing in CSS, important to be able to know what a page is and how to address it

Dave Cramer: A couple of things from CSS point of view, some discussion about this sort of thing in CSS, important to be able to know what a page is and how to address it

16:09:00 <azaroth> ... work on fragmentation might help here.  Publishers interested in styling things based on which page they're on and the position within the page

... work on fragmentation might help here. Publishers interested in styling things based on which page they're on and the position within the page

16:09:25 <azaroth> ... so far css isn't really addressing that issue. working on selecting the master page in the InDesign sense, but that doesn't select the content of the page

... so far css isn't really addressing that issue. working on selecting the master page in the InDesign sense, but that doesn't select the content of the page

16:09:30 <tzviya> q+

Tzviya Siegman: q+

16:09:32 <lizadaly> ack ivan

Liza Daly: ack ivan

16:09:33 <azaroth> ... lots of pieces to this

... lots of pieces to this

16:09:38 <dauwhe> q-

Dave Cramer: q-

16:10:18 <azaroth> Ivan:  Ran into a problem that relates -- a book that also had illustrations and caption of illustration was quote from the text.  Quote said this is on page 622.  And then it wasn't, depending on reflowing.

Ivan Herman: Ran into a problem that relates -- a book that also had illustrations and caption of illustration was quote from the text. Quote said this is on page 622. And then it wasn't, depending on reflowing.

16:10:36 <azaroth> ... so publishers have to have some special way to encode it, so the RS can get it right.  Can't completely forget about it

... so publishers have to have some special way to encode it, so the RS can get it right. Can't completely forget about it

16:11:12 <azaroth> dauwhe: generated content for paged media module has that kind of page referencing property.  Can retrieve the page number from the link and display it to have the right number

Dave Cramer: generated content for paged media module has that kind of page referencing property. Can retrieve the page number from the link and display it to have the right number

16:11:19 <azaroth> Ivan: Publishers have to know how to do that.

Ivan Herman: Publishers have to know how to do that.

16:11:31 <azaroth> dauwhe: And it has to be implemented.  Not sure of implementation outside of Random House

Dave Cramer: And it has to be implemented. Not sure of implementation outside of Antenna House

16:11:42 <azaroth> ???: It needs to be embedded in teh content? or working interactively?

???: It needs to be embedded in teh content? or working interactively?

16:11:50 <lizadaly> s/Random House/Antenna House/
16:12:00 <lizadaly> ??? was Bill_Kasdorf

Liza Daly: Bill_Kasdorf was Bill_Kasdorf

16:12:07 <azaroth> dauwhe: You can say link to a heading somewhere ... there's an illustration far away.  THen you write CSS to say get the ID value and find the page value, display that here

Dave Cramer: You can say link to a heading somewhere ... there's an illustration far away. THen you write CSS to say get the ID value and find the page value, display that here

16:12:08 <lizadaly> ack tzviya

Liza Daly: ack tzviya

16:12:17 <azaroth> s/???/Bill_Kasdorf/
16:12:18 <ivan> s/???/Bill_kasdorf
16:12:49 <azaroth> tzviya: If we're working on implementing JS, we can call it a viewport or page, we don't know where things are going to land on the page.  Eg a touch event, we want to contain it to a particular screen

Tzviya Siegman: If we're working on implementing JS, we can call it a viewport or page, we don't know where things are going to land on the page. Eg a touch event, we want to contain it to a particular screen

16:13:11 <azaroth> lizadaly: I wasn't really considering publishers writing interactive components inside a book, not common now but should be

Liza Daly: I wasn't really considering publishers writing interactive components inside a book, not common now but should be

16:13:18 <dauwhe> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-gcpm/#target-counter

Dave Cramer: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-gcpm/#target-counter

16:13:21 <azaroth> ... they'll want a common way to reference pages

... they'll want a common way to reference pages

16:13:45 <azaroth> tzviya: page references in a cook book, you might say see recipe on page 72, but in academic work citations are more complicated

Tzviya Siegman: page references in a cook book, you might say see recipe on page 72, but in academic work citations are more complicated

16:13:51 <azaroth> ... working with references across works

... working with references across works

16:13:58 <azaroth> ... probably not in scope, but want to consider it

... probably not in scope, but want to consider it

16:14:22 <azaroth> lizadaly: linking is important, but should probably confine it to pagination rather than the whole world of references

Liza Daly: linking is important, but should probably confine it to pagination rather than the whole world of references

16:14:54 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:14:56 <azaroth> ... sounds like someone other than a RS vendor should come up with publisher centric use cases before we can say it's complete

... sounds like someone other than a RS vendor should come up with publisher centric use cases before we can say it's complete

16:14:57 <dshkolnik> In digital magazine world we see a lot of custom JavaScript from publishers. The contract between Adobe Content Viewer and the publishers content is that we call onAppear()/onDisappear() when page is displayed.

Dmitry Shkolnik: In digital magazine world we see a lot of custom JavaScript from publishers. The contract between Adobe Content Viewer and the publishers content is that we call onAppear()/onDisappear() when page is displayed.

16:14:58 <lizadaly> ack ivan

Liza Daly: ack ivan

16:15:31 <azaroth> ivan: what's the next steps?  in China we wondered whether it means we need changes or extensions to the current DOM model, or not?

Ivan Herman: what's the next steps? in China we wondered whether it means we need changes or extensions to the current DOM model, or not?

16:15:42 <azaroth> ... that would be a very specific, heavy technical requirement

... that would be a very specific, heavy technical requirement

16:15:50 <azaroth> ... need to be careful before issuing such a requirement

... need to be careful before issuing such a requirement

16:15:59 <azaroth> ... is that where we're going, or can we get around it?

... is that where we're going, or can we get around it?

16:16:29 <azaroth> lizadaly: no way to reference a particular page in DOM other than with lots of JS hacks

Liza Daly: no way to reference a particular page in DOM other than with lots of JS hacks

16:16:40 <dauwhe> q+

Dave Cramer: q+

16:16:41 <azaroth> ... can't even say what page you're currently on.

... can't even say what page you're currently on.

16:16:52 <azaroth> ... need a solution

... need a solution

16:17:13 <Zakim> +madi

Zakim IRC Bot: +madi

16:17:21 <azaroth> brady_duga: Agree there isnt' a solution today.  Two options -- modify the way DOM works or layer a solution on top of it

Brady Duga: Agree there isnt' a solution today. Two options -- modify the way DOM works or layer a solution on top of it

16:17:35 <azaroth> ... that might be possible without changing the dom, but some other way to map between elements in the DOM and pages

... that might be possible without changing the dom, but some other way to map between elements in the DOM and pages

16:17:50 <azaroth> ... only want to show this portion of the DOM because that's the page we're on.  DOn't know which is the way to go

... only want to show this portion of the DOM because that's the page we're on. DOn't know which is the way to go

16:17:55 <lizadaly> ack dauwhe

Liza Daly: ack dauwhe

16:18:35 <azaroth> dauwhe: Actually changing the DOM seems like an incredibly high hurdle.  not an expert but lots of work on extensions to the DOM to talk about things not really in the dom like pseudo elements

Dave Cramer: Actually changing the DOM seems like an incredibly high hurdle. not an expert but lots of work on extensions to the DOM to talk about things not really in the dom like pseudo elements

16:18:59 <azaroth> ... wonder if there's possibility in that space to be able to manipulate the objects we want to talk about

... wonder if there's possibility in that space to be able to manipulate the objects we want to talk about

16:19:02 <astearns> q+

Alan Stearns: q+

16:19:09 <lizadaly> ack astearns

Liza Daly: ack astearns

16:19:28 <azaroth> astearns: one possibility for building on top of the dom is to use css regions.

Alan Stearns: one possibility for building on top of the dom is to use css regions.

16:19:51 <azaroth> ... when you fragment content with regions you have some scripting access to the region chain, you can find out which position the region is in the chain

... when you fragment content with regions you have some scripting access to the region chain, you can find out which position the region is in the chain

16:20:09 <azaroth> ... so you can find out what page content is on, so long as you map regions to pages

... so you can find out what page content is on, so long as you map regions to pages

16:20:22 <azaroth> ... so can build on top of that as it lets you do some of the things raised

... so can build on top of that as it lets you do some of the things raised

16:20:41 <azaroth> lizadaly: Remember an early draft of the spec, excited that it gives that level of access.

Liza Daly: Remember an early draft of the spec, excited that it gives that level of access.

16:20:53 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:20:55 <azaroth> astearns: the spec is moving along. Mozilla is not terribly interested

Alan Stearns: the spec is moving along. Mozilla is not terribly interested

16:21:05 <azaroth> ... Chrome decided to take it out for now as mozilla aren't doing it

... Chrome decided to take it out for now as mozilla aren't doing it

16:21:16 <lizadaly> ack ivan

Liza Daly: ack ivan

16:21:19 <azaroth> ... implementation in safari, and older version in IE. Need to wait for other browsers

... implementation in safari, and older version in IE. Need to wait for other browsers

16:22:02 <azaroth> ivan: good example.  Don't know why mozilla isn't interested, but tells me that if it's a solution or main component for the publishing industry, then the IG should make it clear to the parties

Ivan Herman: good example. Don't know why mozilla isn't interested, but tells me that if it's a solution or main component for the publishing industry, then the IG should make it clear to the parties

16:22:10 <azaroth> ... that as far as we're concerned, this should have a high priority

... that as far as we're concerned, this should have a high priority

16:22:25 <dauwhe> q+

Dave Cramer: q+

16:22:37 <azaroth> ... as it solves a big problem.  Alan you're on the CSS WG, what can this IG do to try to increase the priority of implementation?

... as it solves a big problem. Alan you're on the CSS WG, what can this IG do to try to increase the priority of implementation?

16:22:46 <lizadaly> ack dauwhe

Liza Daly: ack dauwhe

16:22:51 <azaroth> lizadaly: Helpful to say that it's very important

Liza Daly: Helpful to say that it's very important

16:22:53 <karen> zakim, code?

Karen Myers: zakim, code?

16:22:53 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), karen

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), karen

16:23:05 <azaroth> astearns: I think it would be good to talk about use cases rather than specific technology

Alan Stearns: I think it would be good to talk about use cases rather than specific technology

16:23:26 <azaroth> ... knowing the page number, what content is on the page, etc. need to get that information from the reading system to act on

... knowing the page number, what content is on the page, etc. need to get that information from the reading system to act on

16:23:43 <Zakim> +Karen_Myers

Zakim IRC Bot: +Karen_Myers

16:23:44 <azaroth> ... noting regions has the capability built in.  A better way to put pressure.

... noting regions has the capability built in. A better way to put pressure.

16:24:17 <azaroth> dauwhe: wondering if regions can address these kinds of issues? Can it do it behind the scenes without publishers writing in all the region machinery in CSS?

Dave Cramer: wondering if regions can address these kinds of issues? Can it do it behind the scenes without publishers writing in all the region machinery in CSS?

16:24:47 <azaroth> ... can it interpret pagination or something a RS could use to implement pagination and then expose hooks without publishers having to assign everything individualy

... can it interpret pagination or something a RS could use to implement pagination and then expose hooks without publishers having to assign everything individualy

16:25:00 <azaroth> astearns: Good question. Goes to promoting use cases not technology

Alan Stearns: Good question. Goes to promoting use cases not technology

16:25:02 <ivan> regrets+ Julie

Ivan Herman: regrets+ Julie

16:25:16 <azaroth> ... believe it will be that there'll be JS libraries built on top of regions that gives the functionality

... believe it will be that there'll be JS libraries built on top of regions that gives the functionality

16:25:31 <azaroth> ... or we look at how regions and js interact, and find a lower level way in CSS to do the same thing

... or we look at how regions and js interact, and find a lower level way in CSS to do the same thing

16:25:48 <azaroth> ... so regions+ js to me is the right way to address a lot of the use cases, but I could be wrong

... so regions+ js to me is the right way to address a lot of the use cases, but I could be wrong

16:26:17 <azaroth> lizadaly: when i first saw some region support in chrome, pagination and seeking to a page, can't say it would solve all the use cases here, but was very promising

Liza Daly: when i first saw some region support in chrome, pagination and seeking to a page, can't say it would solve all the use cases here, but was very promising

16:26:21 <azaroth> ... better than previous solutions

... better than previous solutions

16:26:31 <azaroth> astearns: Some limitations, when you get to very long documents

Alan Stearns: Some limitations, when you get to very long documents

16:26:48 <azaroth> ... regions + script may not be performant enough.  might inform where we need to work.

... regions + script may not be performant enough. might inform where we need to work.

16:27:07 <azaroth> ... Brady and Rosen from MS were talking about the next steps and how to get a long pagination scenario working okay

... Brady and Rosen from MS were talking about the next steps and how to get a long pagination scenario working okay

16:27:24 <azaroth> lizadaly: agree that's been a problem with all the solutions I've seen so far -- they fall apart in long streams

Liza Daly: agree that's been a problem with all the solutions I've seen so far -- they fall apart in long streams

16:27:30 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:27:34 <lizadaly> ack ivan

Liza Daly: ack ivan

16:27:59 <azaroth> ivan: not like trying to push anyone but this tells me it would be relatively urgent to get these use cases documented and published

Ivan Herman: not like trying to push anyone but this tells me it would be relatively urgent to get these use cases documented and published

16:28:06 <azaroth> ... could be the time when the pressure could work

... could be the time when the pressure could work

16:28:21 <azaroth> ... if we are too late with the UCs then could be too late and will be pushed back to CSS4

... if we are too late with the UCs then could be too late and will be pushed back to CSS4

16:28:29 <azaroth> +1

+1

16:29:03 <azaroth> brady: Curious what the next steps are? Not sure I even proof read them.  Need more people to add use cases?

Brady Duga: Curious what the next steps are? Not sure I even proof read them. Need more people to add use cases?

16:29:08 <dauwhe> q+

Dave Cramer: q+

16:29:27 <lizadaly> ack dauwhe

Liza Daly: ack dauwhe

16:29:30 <azaroth> ivan: At some point we need to publish working draft -- a more formal doc from the IG -- that we can put on the desks of appropriate people

Ivan Herman: At some point we need to publish working draft -- a more formal doc from the IG -- that we can put on the desks of appropriate people

16:29:49 <azaroth> dauwhe: another use case is the desire to style things on page position, eg recto/verso

Dave Cramer: another use case is the desire to style things on page position, eg recto/verso

16:29:57 <azaroth> ... do those use cases help?

... do those use cases help?

16:30:09 <azaroth> +1 to r/v from medieval manuscript scholar

+1 to r/v from medieval manuscript scholar

16:30:25 <azaroth> lizadaly: changing properties of the text based on pagination

Liza Daly: changing properties of the text based on pagination

16:30:34 <azaroth> dauwhe: a better foundation for pagination than currently

Dave Cramer: a better foundation for pagination than currently

16:30:48 <azaroth> lizadaly: would like to see some publisher focused use cases listed

Liza Daly: would like to see some publisher focused use cases listed

16:31:08 <azaroth> ... styling or js apis that publishers could make use of that understand pagination seems relevant

... styling or js apis that publishers could make use of that understand pagination seems relevant

16:31:30 <azaroth> ... might want to be explicit that performance is important

... might want to be explicit that performance is important

16:31:40 <tzviya> I was thinking of Random and Simon

Tzviya Siegman: I was thinking of Random and Simon

16:32:06 <azaroth> tzviya: Simon & Schuster, also Random House

Tzviya Siegman: Simon & Schuster, also Random House

16:32:17 <azaroth> dauwhe: wanting to do things particularly with a spread

Dave Cramer: wanting to do things particularly with a spread

16:32:29 <azaroth> ivan: who should reach out to Lisa ?Cachin?

Ivan Herman: who should reach out to Lisa ?Cachin?

16:32:35 <lizadaly> Liisa

Liza Daly: Liisa

16:32:44 <azaroth> dauwhe: I will

Dave Cramer: I will

16:33:02 <azaroth> dauwhe: action on Ivan to get them to join :)

Dave Cramer: action on Ivan to get them to join :)

16:33:07 <Zakim> -Karen_Myers

Zakim IRC Bot: -Karen_Myers

16:33:28 <azaroth> ivan: reaching out a good idea.

Ivan Herman: reaching out a good idea.

16:33:47 <azaroth> tzviya: S&S work on children's books a lot. but if Liisa has good examples that's probably sufficient

Tzviya Siegman: S&S work on children's books a lot. but if Liisa has good examples that's probably sufficient

16:33:53 <azaroth> ... RH is a great start

... RH is a great start

16:34:17 <azaroth> ivan: what about STEM? mathematical text books with cross refs in pages, formulae etc was incredibly important

Ivan Herman: what about STEM? mathematical text books with cross refs in pages, formulae etc was incredibly important

16:34:27 <azaroth> ... can also ask Jean

... can also ask Jean

16:34:40 <azaroth> tzviya: can talk about over lunch at EduPub

Tzviya Siegman: can talk about over lunch at EduPub

16:34:49 <Zakim> +Karen_Myers

Zakim IRC Bot: +Karen_Myers

16:35:10 <azaroth> lizadaly: Another pass through the use cases would be good

Liza Daly: Another pass through the use cases would be good

16:35:20 <azaroth> brady_duga: I'll take another pass through them

Brady Duga: I'll take another pass through them

16:35:35 <azaroth> lizadaly: publisher focused ones will take a little longer

Liza Daly: publisher focused ones will take a little longer

16:35:47 <azaroth> ivan: brady are you in a position to lead the TF?

Ivan Herman: brady are you in a position to lead the TF?

16:36:05 <azaroth> brady_duga: I think we should find someone else, if I take the leadership it won't get done

Brady Duga: I think we should find someone else, if I take the leadership it won't get done

16:36:17 <azaroth> ... can't really take on anything much at this point and expect anything to happen with it

... can't really take on anything much at this point and expect anything to happen with it

16:36:29 <azaroth> ... can help out

... can help out

16:36:44 <azaroth> ivan: so next question is who?

Ivan Herman: so next question is who?

16:36:58 <azaroth> lizadaly: I vote for Liisa :)

Tzviya Siegman: I vote for Liisa :)

16:37:10 <lizadaly> s/lizadaly/tzviya/
16:37:15 <azaroth> ivan: There was a meeting last week but I don't think it would be appropriate at this moment

Ivan Herman: There was a meeting last week but I don't think it would be appropriate at this moment

16:37:18 <lizadaly> but +1 :)

Liza Daly: but +1 :)

16:37:31 <azaroth> karen: Don't want to discourage reaching out, but they don't see a compelling reason to participate at the moment

Karen Myers: Don't want to discourage reaching out, but they don't see a compelling reason to participate at the moment

16:38:04 <azaroth> ivan: We'll reach out anyway for use cases regardless

Ivan Herman: We'll reach out anyway for use cases regardless

16:38:12 <azaroth> karen: I think she'd be happy for use cases

Karen Myers: I think she'd be happy for use cases

16:38:22 <azaroth> ivan: Getting her as an IE probably not doable at the moment

Ivan Herman: Getting her as an IE probably not doable at the moment

16:38:27 <azaroth> ... so need someone else

... so need someone else

16:38:44 <azaroth> brady_duga: would love to but am wildly overly committed

Dave Cramer: would love to but am wildly overly committed

16:39:03 <azaroth> tzviya: have you heard from elsevier?

Tzviya Siegman: have you heard from elsevier?

16:39:07 <lizadaly> s/brady_duga/dauwhe/
16:39:24 <azaroth> ivan: contact goes back 5 or 6 years.

Ivan Herman: contact goes back 5 or 6 years.

16:40:07 <azaroth> ivan: oxford university press ... some contact but not the right person.  OUP is a member as part of Oxford.

Ivan Herman: oxford university press ... some contact but not the right person. OUP is a member as part of Oxford.

16:40:22 <azaroth> ... matter of finding the right person

... matter of finding the right person

16:40:34 <azaroth> lizadaly: we build their impelemntations so can talk to team and find the right person

Liza Daly: we build their impelemntations so can talk to team and find the right person

16:40:49 <azaroth> ivan: I can reach out but several attempts would be good

Ivan Herman: I can reach out but several attempts would be good

16:40:59 <azaroth> lizadaly: we normally work with humanities and reference group

Liza Daly: we normally work with humanities and reference group

16:41:15 <azaroth> ivan: a problem we have to solve, but not necessarily right now

Ivan Herman: a problem we have to solve, but not necessarily right now

16:41:30 <azaroth> lizadaly: This was only thing on the agenda

Liza Daly: This was only thing on the agenda

16:41:32 <azaroth> q+

q+

16:41:39 <lizadaly> ack azaroth

Liza Daly: ack azaroth

16:42:09 <Luc> Sorry, I have to leave

Luc Audrain: Sorry, I have to leave

16:42:12 <tzviya> azaroth: we discussed approving annotation use cases and added accessibility to use cases

Robert Sanderson: we discussed approving annotation use cases and added accessibility to use cases [ Scribe Assist by Tzviya Siegman ]

16:42:19 <Zakim> - +33.1.41.23.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: - +33.1.41.23.aaaa

16:42:23 <tzviya> ...should i begin work on note?

Tzviya Siegman: ...should i begin work on note?

16:42:33 <azaroth> ivan: starting to work on note will help to clean up use cases

Ivan Herman: starting to work on note will help to clean up use cases

16:42:37 <lizadaly> (Thanks tzviya)

Liza Daly: (Thanks tzviya)

16:42:54 <azaroth> ... so I would start turning them into a real document. While doing that some issues will come up to discuss

... so I would start turning them into a real document. While doing that some issues will come up to discuss

16:43:06 <azaroth> ... you have the infrastructure?

... you have the infrastructure?

16:43:09 <azaroth> azaroth: Yup

Robert Sanderson: Yup

16:43:20 <azaroth> ivan: If you need help you know where to find it :)

Ivan Herman: If you need help you know where to find it :)

16:43:24 <azaroth> lizadaly: AOB?

Liza Daly: AOB?

16:43:31 <Zakim> -LFowler

Zakim IRC Bot: -LFowler

16:43:31 <azaroth> ... Okay, thanks every one

... Okay, thanks every one