Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

Minutes of 27 January 2014

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Jan/0033.html
Present
Alan Stearns, Bill Kasdorf, Brady Duga, Dave Cramer, Dmitry Shkolnik, Frederick Hirsch, Gerardo Capiel, Ivan Herman, Jean Kaplansky, Julie Morris, Laura Fowler, Liam Quin, Liza Daly, Luc Audrain, Markus Gylling, Phil Madans, Richard Schwerdtfeger, Robert Sanderson, Suzanne Taylor, Thierry Michel, Tom De Nies, Karen MyersVladimir Levantovsky
Regrets
Dave Cramer, Ivan Herman, Alan Stearns, Liam Quin, Luc Audrain, Phil Madans, Tom De Nies
Scribe
Karen Myers
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics
Liza Daly: Yes
15:59:44 <karen> zakim, code?


Markus Gylling
: Karen, ok to scribe?
16:00:30 <Zakim> +duga

Zakim IRC Bot: +duga

16:00:38 <Zakim> +??P21

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21

16:00:47 <Zakim> +Karen_Myers

Zakim IRC Bot: +Karen_Myers

16:00:52 <tmichel> zakim, ??P21 is me

Thierry Michel: zakim, ??P21 is me

16:00:52 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +tmichel; got it

16:01:23 <mgylling> zakim, who is here

Markus Gylling: zakim, who is here

16:01:23 <Zakim> mgylling, you need to end that query with '?'

Zakim IRC Bot: mgylling, you need to end that query with '?'

16:01:35 <mgylling> zakim, aadd is LFowler

Markus Gylling: zakim, aadd is LFowler

16:01:35 <Zakim> +LFowler; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +LFowler; got it

16:01:41 <tmichel> zakim, who is here ?

Thierry Michel: zakim, who is here ?

16:01:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Rich_Schwerdtfeger, lizadaly, mgylling, azaroth, +1.646.336.aabb (muted), LFowler, Vlad, duga, tmichel, Karen_Myers

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Rich_Schwerdtfeger, lizadaly, mgylling, azaroth, +1.646.336.aabb (muted), LFowler, Vlad, duga, tmichel, Karen_Myers

16:01:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see gcapiel, JeanK, benjaminsko, Vlad, fjh, azaroth, LFowler, liza, Zakim, RRSAgent, brady_duga, richardschwerdtfeger, tmichel, mgylling, karen, liam, astearns, plinss,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see gcapiel, JeanK, benjaminsko, Vlad, fjh, azaroth, LFowler, liza, Zakim, RRSAgent, brady_duga, richardschwerdtfeger, tmichel, mgylling, karen, liam, astearns, plinss,

16:01:43 <Zakim> ... trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: ... trackbot

16:02:01 <tmichel> wHO IS 1.646.336.aabb ,

Thierry Michel
: who is 1.646.336.aabb ,
16:02:22 <Zakim> +??P31

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P31

16:02:24 <Zakim> +JeanKaplansky

Zakim IRC Bot: +JeanKaplansky

16:02:28 <Zakim> +AWK

Zakim IRC Bot: +AWK

16:02:35 <Zakim> -Karen_Myers

16:02:50 <Zakim> +Marilyn

Zakim IRC Bot: +Marilyn

16:02:53 <gcapiel> Zakim, ??P31 is me

Gerardo Capiel: Zakim, ??P31 is me

16:02:53 <tmichel> IS ??P31 JeanKaplansky OR Karen_Myers ,
Thierry Michel: is ??P31 Jean Kaplansky or Karen Myers ,
16:02:54 <Zakim> +gcapiel; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +gcapiel; got it

16:03:16 <dshkolnik> Zakim, AWK is dshkolnik

Dmitry Shkolnik: Zakim, AWK is dshkolnik

16:03:16 <Zakim> +dshkolnik; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +dshkolnik; got it

16:03:18 <Zakim> +Karen_Myers

Zakim IRC Bot: +Karen_Myers

16:03:21 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:03:23 <fjh> zakim, IPcaller is me

Frederick Hirsch: zakim, IPcaller is me

16:03:23 <Zakim> +fjh; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +fjh; got it

16:03:29 <fjh> Present+ Frederick_Hirsch
16:03:47 <karen> Markus: Let's get going


Markus Gylling
: Let's get going

Julie Morris
: I'm at a 646 number

16:04:03 <mgylling> Zakim, aabb is Julie Morris

Markus Gylling: Zakim, aabb is Julie Morris

16:04:03 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aabb is Julie Morris', mgylling

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'aabb is Julie Morris', mgylling

16:04:06 <Zakim> + +1.917.447.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.917.447.aaee

16:04:29 <karen> Markus: Thierry, if you can assign that to Julie
Karen Myers: ...Welcome everyone
16:04:41 <mgylling> regrets: Dave Cramer, Ivan Herman, Alan Stearns, Liam Quin, Luc Audrain, Phil Madans, Tom De Nies
16:04:41 <tmichel> Zakim, 1.646.336.aabb is Julie Morris

Thierry Michel: Zakim, 1.646.336.aabb is Julie Morris

16:04:41 <Zakim> I don't understand '1.646.336.aabb is Julie Morris', tmichel

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand '1.646.336.aabb is Julie Morris', tmichel

16:04:41 <karen> ...We have Karen scribing today

Karen Myers
: ...We have Karen scribing today
Karen Myers
: ...and registering regrets
Karen Myers: ...Short agenda for today
16:05:03 <karen> ...As you know, we are running these focused themes with the task forces

Karen Myers
: ...As you know, we are running these focused themes with the task forces
16:05:05 <Zakim> +Bill_Kasdorf

Zakim IRC Bot: +Bill_Kasdorf

16:05:16 <karen> ...We don't have a new task force today because we have an urgent matter to cover annotations

Karen Myers
: ...We don't have a new task force today because we have an urgent matter to cover annotations
Karen Myers
: ...But on this call we'll decide what task force to review next week
16:05:34 <karen> ...We have one person who has not yet made it to our calls

Karen Myers
: ...We have one person who has not yet made it to our calls
Karen Myers: ...Rich, can you say a few words?
16:05:47 <karen> Rich: I am CTO for IBM software


Richard Schwerdtfeger
: I am CTO for Accessibility for IBM software

Bill Kasdorf
: has Julie from BISG been introduced?
16:05:52 <karen> ...and chair the ARIA standards effort


Karen Myers
: ...and chair the ARIA standards effort
16:06:01 <tmichel> topic: Approval of previous meeting minutes

1. Approval of previous meeting minutes

16:06:14 <karen> Markus: Last week's minutes are published

Markus Gylling
: Last week's minutes are published
16:06:19 <karen> ...any objections to accepting them?


Karen Myers
: ...any objections to accepting them?
16:06:26 <richardschwerdtfeger> s/CTO/CTO for Accessibility/
16:06:33 <tmichel> topic: Annotations TF: planning for publishing requirements as Note

2. Annotations TF: planning for publishing requirements as Note

16:06:51 <karen> Markus: there is work underway to propose the formation of a working track working group

Markus Gylling
: there is work underway to propose the formation of a working track working group

16:07:01 <karen> ...of the open annotations community group
Karen Myers: ...of the open annotations community group
16:07:15 <karen> ...we are thinking to fast track the requirements so they can be used and referenced by the WG

Karen Myers
: ...we are thinking to fast track the requirements so they can be used and referenced by the WG
16:07:26 <karen> ...anything else, Rob, in terms of context?

Karen Myers
: ...anything else, Rob, in terms of context?
16:07:35 <karen> Rob: in order to ensure all the requirements in the IG are met


Robert Sanderson
: in order to ensure all the requirements of the IG are met

Karen Myers
: ...in the WG process
16:07:58 <karen> ...would be great to have the usec cases if not entirely finished, at least be a lot more formalized than they are now

Karen Myers
: ...would be great to have the usec cases if not entirely finished, at least be a lot more formalized than they are now

Markus Gylling
: To do this, the first thing to keep in mind 
16:08:13 <karen> ...is that this is the process all the task forces will go through


Karen Myers
: ...is that this is the process all the task forces will go through
16:08:23 <azaroth> s/in the IG/of the IG/
16:08:25 <karen> ...Use of the wiki is in the initial stage of the Task Force work

Karen Myers
: ...Use of the wiki is in the initial stage of the Task Force work
16:08:29 <azaroth> s/and the WG/in the WG/
16:08:36 <karen> ...we expect taht they will formalize in Note documents
Karen Myers: ...we expect that they will formalize in Note documents
16:08:49 <karen> ...It looks like annotations task force will take the next steps in this sequence first

Karen Myers
: ...It looks like annotations task force will take the next steps in this sequence first
Karen Myers: ...but we want to clarify with the sequence first
16:09:03 <karen> ...And hope Karen can help us

Karen Myers
: ...And hope Karen can help us
16:09:17 <karen> ...basically I think there is the following steps

Karen Myers
: ...basically I think there is the following steps
16:09:21 <karen> ...let me throw them out here

Karen Myers
: ...let me throw them out here
16:09:34 <karen> ...First is that we as an IG go over the wiki and fill in any blanks or missing areas that we can find

Karen Myers
: ...First is that we as an IG go over the wiki and fill in any blanks or missing areas that we can find
16:09:46 <karen> ...Second step is that the task force produces a first version of the Note document

Karen Myers
: ...Second step is that the task force produces a first version of the Note document
16:09:51 <karen> ...and we abandon the wiki at that stage

Karen Myers
: ...and we abandon the wiki at that stage
16:10:03 <karen> ...and likely use Respect and JS to produce a Note

Karen Myers
: ...and likely use ReSpec JS to produce a Note
Karen Myers: ...at that point, it is the IG's first public draft
16:10:26 <karen> ...and we accept comments both internally with W3C and on the mailing list within a period of time

Karen Myers
: ...and we accept comments both internally with W3C and on the mailing list within a period of time
Karen Myers: ...let's say it's one month
16:10:43 <azaroth> s/Respect and JS/ReSpec JS/
16:10:43 <karen> ...And once the comment period is done and edits are done, we are ready to publish the Note

Karen Myers
: ...And once the comment period is done and edits are done, we are ready to publish the Note
16:10:49 <karen> ...i don't think it's much more complex than that

Karen Myers
: ...i don't think it's much more complex than that
16:10:55 <azaroth> \me http://www.w3.org/respec/


Robert Sanderson
: \me http://www.w3.org/respec/

16:11:02 <karen> ...Notes are not too high ranking in w3C space
Karen Myers: ...Notes are not too high ranking in w3C space
16:11:44 <karen> Karen: we can review process document...just the time frame may need checking

Karen Myers
: we can review process document...just the time frame may need checking
16:12:01 <karen> Markus: We need to be done...

Karen Myers
: We need to be done...
16:12:06 <karen> ...does this sound feasible?

Karen Myers
: ...does this sound feasible?

16:12:09 <karen> Rob: yes, that sounds good
Robert Sanderson:  yes, that sounds good
16:12:21 <karen> ...in terms of timing, we need to have something charterwise that can be discussed by 1 April


Karen Myers
: ...in terms of timing, we need to have something charterwise that can be discussed by 1 April
16:12:27 <karen> ...meaning that the Note should be in a good state

Karen Myers
: ...meaning that the Note should be in a good state
Karen Myers: ...according to the IG
16:12:40 <karen> ...about one month or three weeks before the annotations

Karen Myers
: ...about one month or three weeks before the annotations
16:12:46 <karen> ...would go three weeks to write the note

Karen Myers
: ...would go three weeks to write the note
16:12:55 <karen> Markus: are you ok with producing a version of the Note now


Markus Gylling
: are you ok with producing a version of the Note now
16:12:58 <karen> ...in a week or so?

Karen Myers
: ...in a week or so?
16:13:06 <karen> Rob: I can try for within a week

Robert Sanderson
:  I can try for within a week

Markus Gylling
: we spend time today looking at the wiki about we have and don't

16:13:28 <karen> ...then have a one-week window for the IG to look at it further
Karen Myers: ...then have a one-week window for the IG to look at it further
16:13:35 <Suzanne> q+

Suzanne Taylor: q+

16:13:40 <karen> ...and then following week produce first draft version of the Note

Karen Myers
: ...and then following week produce first draft version of the Note 
16:13:45 <karen> Rob: my only concern with that


Robert Sanderson
: : my only concern with that

16:14:00 <karen> ...is having @ in the Note referring to use cases that don't get agreed upon in the IG
Karen Myers: ...is having @ in the Note referring to use cases that don't get agreed upon in the IG
16:14:08 <karen> ...if Note lists all the use cases, that is easy


Karen Myers
: ...if Note lists all the use cases, that is easy
16:14:13 <tmichel>  first draft version of the Note I guess is an editor's document ?


Thierry Michel
: first draft version of the Note I guess is an editor's document ?
16:14:20 <karen> ...but if it's tracking down more references, that could be complicated


Karen Myers
: ...but if it's tracking down more references, that could be complicated
16:14:34 <karen> Markus: if everything goes well by next Monday, we should have IG's blessing for all or a subset?


Markus Gylling
: if everything goes well by next Monday, we should have IG's blessing for all or a subset?

16:14:41 <karen> ...And that is your greenlight to produce a Note
Karen Myers: ...And that is your greenlight to produce a Note

Robert Sanderson: if we can do it in that timeframe, that would be fantastic
16:15:00 <karen> Markus: yes, it might take longer, but we have been through it before


Markus Gylling
: yes, it might take longer, but we have been through it before

16:15:10 <karen> ...I would be surprised to see a storm of complaints
Karen Myers: ...I would be surprised to see a storm of complaints
16:15:21 <karen> Thierry: the first document we will produce is a first draft Editor's document


Thierry Michel
: the first document we will produce is a first draft Editor's document
16:15:29 <karen> ...and once IG is ok, we'll move it to a w3C Note


Karen Myers
: ...and once IG is ok, we'll move it to a w3C Note
Karen Myers: ...and sooner or later we can republish that Note when we want to add changes there
16:15:44 <karen> Markus: right

Markus Gylling
: right
16:15:50 <karen> ack Suszanne


Suzanne Taylor
: there are accessibility implications for annotations
16:16:11 <Suzanne> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Mark_Highlighting

Suzanne Taylor
: http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Mark_Highlighting
16:16:27 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+

Bill Kasdorf: q+

16:16:29 <karen> ...It would be good if Gerardo, others in accessibility task force had time to look over the annotations carefully


Karen Myers
: ...It would be good if Gerardo, others in accessibility task force had time to look over the annotations carefully
Karen Myers: ...with view about making annotations themselves accessible
16:16:47 <karen> ...We are at a conference this week and would need more days next week

Karen Myers
: ...We are at a conference this week and would need more days next week

Markus Gylling
: yes, maybe we should... 
Markus Gylling
: http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Social_Reading_and_Annotations
16:17:00 <karen> ...ask people to just navigate to this URL


Karen Myers
: ...ask people to just navigate to this URL
16:17:09 <karen> ...you jumped straight into what we have now

Karen Myers
: ...you jumped straight into what we have now
16:17:17 <karen> ...What you referenced, Suzanne is the last use case

Karen Myers
: ...What you referenced, Suzanne is the last use case
16:17:27 <gcapiel> I agree.  Thanks Suzzane


Gerardo Capiel
: I agree. Thanks Suzzane
16:17:34 <karen> ...Looking at the list, Rob, to give use bearing

Karen Myers
: ...Looking at the list, Rob, to give use bearing
16:17:40 <karen> ...from CG perspective, how complete is this

Karen Myers
: ...from CG perspective, how complete is this
16:17:44 <karen> ...on a scale from one to 100

Karen Myers
: ...on a scale from one to 100

16:17:48 <karen> Rob: 95
Robert Sanderson:  95

Karen Myers
: ...it pretty much covers what the CG has discussed
16:18:06 <karen> ...one or two things which are part of the current specification

Karen Myers
: ...one or two things which are part of the current specification
16:18:15 <karen> ...that there were use cases for but they were very specific

Karen Myers
: ...that there were use cases for but they were very specific
16:18:22 <karen> ...cannot think of anything that made them useful in publishing domain

Karen Myers
: ...cannot think of anything that made them useful in publishing domain
16:18:29 <karen> ...A few things not in CG such as packages use cases

Karen Myers
: ...A few things not in CG such as packages use cases
16:18:42 <karen> ...and recording the state of user manipulated resources is not covered

Karen Myers
: ...and recording the state of user manipulated resources is not covered
16:18:47 <karen> ...that is far too complicated to come out

Karen Myers
: ...that is far too complicated to come out
16:19:01 <karen> Markus: yes, I see a bunch that comes from discussions we have had here and within the EPUB WG


Markus Gylling
: yes, I see a bunch that comes from discussions we have had here and within the EPUB WG
16:19:08 <karen> ...the packaging of annotations as well as under other


Karen Myers
: ...the packaging of annotations as well as under other
16:19:09 <Zakim> -lizadaly

Zakim IRC Bot: -lizadaly

16:19:15 <lizadaly> argh


Liza Daly
: argh

16:19:20 <karen> ...specififying the target audience stem from EPUB work
Karen Myers: ...specififying the target audience stem from EPUB work
16:19:24 <karen> Rob: huge jump slightly


Robert Sanderson
:  huge jump slightly

16:19:40 <mgylling> q?

Markus Gylling: q?

16:19:42 <Zakim> +lizadaly

Zakim IRC Bot: +lizadaly

16:19:43 <karen> ...Suzanne, did you expect that accessibility of annotations is an accessibility use case, an annotations use case, or both
Karen Myers: ...Suzanne, did you expect that accessibility of annotations is an accessibility use case, an annotations use case, or both
16:19:52 <karen> Suzanne: I worry...most important thing


Suzanne Taylor
: I worry...most important thing
16:19:58 <karen> ...is that actual interface be accessible


Karen Myers
: ...is that actual interface be accessible
16:20:08 <karen> ...if we keep it only in accessibility it will be in a second releasea

Karen Myers
: ...if we keep it only in accessibility it will be in a second releasea
16:20:20 <karen> ...I would like to see it in the annotations work if possible

Karen Myers
: ...I would like to see it in the annotations work if possible
16:20:24 <karen> Gerardo: I totally agree


Gerardo Capiel
: I totally agree
16:20:44 <karen> ...accessibility was not thought through in first pass with [example Hypothes.is]


Karen Myers
: ...accessibility was not thought through in first pass with [example Hypothes.is]
16:20:49 <karen> ...description, post production

Karen Myers
: ...description, post production
16:21:13 <karen> Markus: we got that you agree with Suzanne


Markus Gylling
: we got that you agree with Suzanne
16:21:22 <karen> ...So is that an easy item for you to carry in here, Rob?


Karen Myers
:: ...So is that an easy item for you to carry in here, Rob?

16:21:40 <karen> Rob: I am not at all versed in accessibility concerns, but happy to work with people who are
Robert Sanderson:  I am not at all versed in accessibility concerns, but happy to work with people who are
16:21:47 <karen> ...I could not draft a first version of that requirement


Karen Myers
: ...I could not draft a first version of that requirement
16:21:49 <karen> Markus: right


Markus Gylling
: right

16:22:00 <karen> ...if we look at your collection right now, it is not talking about interface properties
Karen Myers: ...if we look at your collection right now, it is not talking about interface properties
Karen Myers
: ...talking about the data itself, not the interface

Robert Sanderson
: one does touch on interface
16:22:20 <gcapiel> Sorry, on train.  I was just saying that annotations are very applicable for post-production image description and description of other visual elements.  Also, it seems that accessibility has been an afterthought with existing solutions.


Gerardo Capiel
: Sorry, on train. I was just saying that annotations are very applicable for post-production image description and description of other visual elements. Also, it seems that accessibility has been an afterthought with existing solutions.
16:22:23 <karen> ...maintaining interface style


Karen Myers
: ...maintaining interface style
16:22:29 <karen> ...draw in white vs black


Karen Myers
: ...draw in white vs black

16:22:42 <karen> ...place a pop-up at this point so as not to cover up useful text
Karen Myers: ...place a pop-up at this point so as not to cover up useful text

16:22:56 <karen> ...those are related to the user experience, if not related to the user interface
Karen Myers: ...those are related to the user experience, if not related to the user interface
16:23:10 <karen> Suzanne: I would suggest that the accessibility task force read through and add small comments


Suzanne Taylor
: I would suggest that the accessibility task force read through and add small comments
16:23:24 <karen> ...and then we add one additional use case which describes the recommended functionality


Karen Myers
: ...and then we add one additional use case which describes the recommended functionality
Karen Myers: ...or requirements
16:23:41 <karen> ...we have an initial draft and could vet that and move over to annotations area

Karen Myers
: ...we have an initial draft and could vet that and move over to annotations area
16:23:54 <karen> Markus: in terms of the accessibility task force review, what date can we set for you?


Markus Gylling
: in terms of the accessibility task force review, what date can we set for you?
16:24:05 <karen> ...Any chance you can do this by next Monday, or is that overly optimistic?


Karen Myers
: ...Any chance you can do this by next Monday, or is that overly optimistic?
16:24:11 <karen> Gerardo: I can work on the plane


Gerardo Capiel
: I can work on the plane 

Richard Schwerdtfeger: I would like to look at it, but have people in Austin this week

16:24:33 <karen> ...so could not get to it until the weekend or early next week
Karen Myers: ...so could not get to it until the weekend or early next week
16:24:42 <karen> Suzanne: I would have trouble getting to it by the 3rd; maybe the 5th


Suzanne Taylor
: I would have trouble getting to it by the 3rd; maybe the 5th

16:24:47 <karen> Markus: ok, that sounds good
Markus Gylling: ok, that sounds good
16:25:05 <karen> Action: Suzanne, Gerardo and Rich to complete accessibility review by 4 February

ACTION: Suzanne, Gerardo and Rich to complete accessibility review by 4 February

16:25:05 <trackbot> Error finding 'Suzanne,'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Error finding 'Suzanne,'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>.

16:25:17 <karen> ack Bill
Karen Myers: ack Bill
16:25:28 <gcapiel> There's some discussion of this topic during an Accessibility Sprint which included Hypothes.is who has been involved in the annotations work http://kefletcher.blogspot.com/2013/06/born-digital-born-accessible-sprint.html?m=1


Gerardo Capiel
: There's some discussion of this topic during an Accessibility Sprint which included Hypothes.is who has been involved in the annotations work http://kefletcher.blogspot.com/2013/06/born-digital-born-accessible-sprint.html?m=1
16:25:28 <karen> Bill: I put that on when Suzanne first commented


Bill Kasdorf
: I put that on when Suzanne first commented

16:25:39 <karen> ...there are also metadata implications for the annotations spec
Karen Myers: ...there are also metadata implications for the annotations spec
16:25:48 <karen> ...but our situation is the opposite of accessibility

Karen Myers
: ...but our situation is the opposite of accessibility
Karen Myers: ...metadata should take into account the finished state ...rather than delay things
16:26:13 <karen> ...metadata responds to use cases for implications

Karen Myers
: ...metadata responds to use cases for implications

16:26:24 <karen> Rob: What do people think about scope of metadata?
Robert Sanderson:  What do people think about scope of metadata?
16:26:34 <karen> Bill: you are involved intimately in both


Bill Kasdorf
: you are involved intimately in both
16:26:51 <karen> Rob: Should metadata task force discuss annotations for metadata as well as publications, or both?


Robert Sanderson
:  Should metadata task force discuss annotations for metadata as well as publications, or both?
16:27:03 <karen> Markus: Bill?


Markus Gylling
: Bill?
16:27:09 <karen> Bill: waiting for others to respond


Bill Kasdorf
: waiting for others to respond
16:27:15 <karen> ...I think there will be blurred lines there


Karen Myers
: ...I think there will be blurred lines there
16:27:24 <karen> ...publications...whether regarding annotations or basic publication

Karen Myers
: ...publications...whether regarding annotations or basic publication
16:27:34 <karen> ...we can responsibly address them after the annotation issues are clarified

Karen Myers
: ...we can responsibly address them after the annotation issues are clarified
Karen Myers: ...we would not be driving annotations use cases, but some use cases could arise
16:27:51 <karen> Markus: ok, good


Markus Gylling
: ok, good
16:27:55 <lizadaly> q?

Liza Daly: q?

16:28:02 <azaroth> ack azaroth

Robert Sanderson: ack azaroth

16:28:17 <karen> Markus: in terms of timing

Markus Gylling
: in terms of timing
16:28:28 <karen> ....by 5th the accessibility review is completed


Karen Myers
: ....by 5th the accessibility review is completed
16:28:35 <karen> ...so we can target February 10

Karen Myers
: ...so we can target February 10
16:28:48 <karen> ...which would be our first opportunity for IG blessing to have first draft for review

Karen Myers
: ...which would be our first opportunity for IG blessing to have first draft for review
16:28:55 <karen> ...and review is not only for accessibility folks

Karen Myers
: ...and review is not only for accessibility folks
16:29:05 <karen> ...please feel free to provide your input in the next week

Karen Myers
: ...please feel free to provide your input in the next week
16:29:07 <Zakim> -fjh

Zakim IRC Bot: -fjh

16:29:16 <karen> ...Rob, anything you want to alert the IG on when we read through this?

Karen Myers
: ...Rob, anything you want to alert the IG on when we read through this?
16:29:24 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:29:26 <karen> ...weak areas, potential blind spots that you have been thinkign about?

Karen Myers
: ...weak areas, potential blind spots that you have been thinkign about?
16:29:29 <fjh> zakim, IPcaller is me

Frederick Hirsch: zakim, IPcaller is me

16:29:29 <Zakim> +fjh; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +fjh; got it

16:29:31 <karen> Rob: I don't think so


Robert Sanderson
:  I don't think so
16:29:43 <karen> ...the later use cases are weaker than the earlier ones just due to use case fatigue


Karen Myers
: ...the later use cases are weaker than the earlier ones just due to use case fatigue
16:29:49 <karen> ...any comments and suggestions are very welcome

Karen Myers
: ...any comments and suggestions are very welcome
16:29:56 <karen> Markus: the queue is empty


Markus Gylling
: the queue is empty
16:30:11 <karen> ...if there are not more comments on annotations, we are ready to move onto the next agenda item


Karen Myers
: ...if there are not more comments on annotations, we are ready to move onto the next agenda item
Karen Myers: ...I'm glad we have Gerardo and Suzanne here
16:30:30 <karen> ...as the next item relates to accessibility

Karen Myers
: ...as the next item relates to accessibility
Karen Myers: ...and we have Rich here as well
16:30:39 <karen> ...Rich, perhaps you can summarize

Karen Myers
: ...Rich, perhaps you can summarize

Richard Schwerdtfeger
: one of things we agreed to do is to create some modules off of ARIA to apply additional semantics to assistive technologies through browsers 
16:31:09 <karen> ...make structural semantics available through ARIA


Karen Myers
: ...make structural semantics available through ARIA
Karen Myers: ...we would need to have some people from this IG part of that effort
16:31:32 <karen> ...and coordinate with main WG and collaborate

Karen Myers
: ...and coordinate with main WG and collaborate
Karen Myers
:...We would start with structural semantics
16:31:45 <karen> ...we don't want to slow down the work others are doing

Karen Myers
:: ...we don't want to slow down the work others are doing
16:31:56 <karen> ...Would be great if someone could volunteer to do the editing

Karen Myers
: ...Would be great if someone could volunteer to do the editing
16:32:00 <karen> ...does that summarzie?

Karen Myers
: ...does that summarzie?

Markus Gylling
: yes; what timeline?

Richard Schwerdtfeger: Depends how fast we move and get things implemented

16:32:27 <karen> ...you have done most of work, you have defined semantics
Karen Myers: ...you have done most of work, you have defined semantics
16:32:33 <karen> ...main thing is to get out to browsers

Karen Myers
: ...main thing is to get out to browsers
16:32:41 <karen> ...biggest thing is getting to CR

Karen Myers
: ...biggest thing is getting to CR
16:32:46 <karen> ...we're looking for 1.1 by end of next eyar

Karen Myers
: ...we're looking for 1.1 by end of next year
16:33:00 <karen> ...I don't know if we can do it in that time frame, but I'm willing to work with people to get that to happen

Karen Myers
: ...I don't know if we can do it in that time frame, but I'm willing to work with people to get that to happen
Karen Myers
: ...I work with many assistive technology vendors

Gerardo Capiel
: Some of this also came out
16:33:21 <karen> ...from @


Karen Myers
: ...from @
16:33:29 <karen> ...when we had discussion with SVG WG

Karen Myers
: ...when we had discussion with SVG WG
16:33:33 <karen> ...graphs in SVG

Karen Myers
: ...graphs in SVG
16:33:39 <karen> ...need for additional ARIA roles came up

Karen Myers
: ...need for additional ARIA roles came up
16:33:45 <karen> ...Rich and Doug Schepers know about it
Karen Myers: ...Rich and Doug Schepers know about it
16:33:52 <karen> ...We are planning a call at EDUPUB2

Karen Myers
: ...We are planning a call at EDUPUB2

Richard Schwerdtfeger
: We also agreed to form a module for graphics
 
16:34:09 <karen> ...as long as that's not an issue

Karen Myers
: ...as long as that's not an issue
16:34:12 <karen> Gerardo: perfect


Gerardo Capiel
: perfect

Markus Gylling
: We have @ from ETS
16:34:27 <karen> ...is that possible for 1.1?


Karen Myers
: ...is that possible for 1.1?
Karen Myers: we are full up
16:34:41 <karen> ...I would have to take that back to the working group
Karen Myers: ...I would have to take that back to the working group
16:34:46 <karen> ...were you thinking TI?

Karen Myers
: ...were you thinking TI?
16:34:58 <karen> Markus: Mark Hakenen and you, Laura have been thinking


Markus Gylling: Mark Hakenen and you, Laura have been thinking
16:35:04 <karen> Laura: Mark has been working with you


Laura Fowler
: Mark has been working with you
16:35:10 <karen> ...and will be talking about ARIA at EDUPUB


Karen Myers
: ...and will be talking about ARIA at EDUPUB
16:35:15 <karen> Markus: right


Markus Gylling
: right

Laura Fowler
: I don't know how far he has gotten with that
16:35:26 <gcapiel> To add to minutes, I'm referring to using ARIA roles to aid SVG sonification


Gerardo Capiel
: To add to minutes, I'm referring to using ARIA roles to aid SVG sonification
16:35:29 <karen> ...or how ready he would be


Karen Myers
: ...or how ready he would be
16:35:44 <karen> Markus: we hope to clarify parts of that at EDUPUB2


Markus Gylling
: we hope to clarify parts of that at EDUPUB2

Karen Myers
: ...if I understand there are two modules agreed
16:36:02 <karen> ...one for graphics and one for basic ebooks semantics

Karen Myers
: ...one for graphics and one for basic ebooks semantics
Karen Myers: ...your call for participation and editor is for both?
Karen Myers:...or epub ones?

Richard Schwerdtfeger
: I want to meet with Doug and Gerardo at EDUPUB 2 
16:36:35 <karen> ...I'm chairing accessibility workshop


Karen Myers
: ...I'm chairing accessibility workshop

Markus Gylling
: If anyone wants to sign up for this module, make yourself heard
16:36:58 <Suzanne> I will volunteer to participate


Suzanne Taylor
: I will volunteer to participate
16:37:00 <karen> ...I plan to join but would love to have more people showing up


Karen Myers
: ...I plan to join but would love to have more people showing up
16:37:15 <karen> ...Rich, anything else from TF meeting last week?

Karen Myers
: ...Rich, anything else from TF meeting last week?

Richard Schwerdtfeger
: we're looking at test cases and the 2.0 timeline as well
16:37:34 <karen> Markus: seeing that we have a little extra time


Markus Gylling
: seeing that we have a little extra time

16:37:59 <karen> ...as most of you know, we use the epub colon type attributes    16:37:50 <karen> ...One of things that's going on, is that IDPF and epub is looking for a more native solution to express structural semanticsKaren
              Myers: ...One of things
      that's going on, is that IDPF and epub is looking for a more native
      solution to express structural semantics 
    
Karen Myers: ...as most of you know, we use the epub colon type attributes
16:38:17 <karen> ...we are exploring options to move away from that, not name-space based, but something more native based to browser stack

Karen Myers
: ...we are exploring options to move away from that, not name-space based, but something more native based to browser stack
16:38:20 <karen> ...a couple solutions

Karen Myers
: ...a couple solutions
16:38:26 <karen> ..have been suggestions
Karen Myers:..have been suggestions
16:38:34 <karen> ...one from Robin Berjon, editor of HTML5

Karen Myers
: ...one from Robin Berjon, editor of HTML5
Karen Myers
:...another option is to make the rule attributes less @ centric and more generic
16:39:05 <karen> ...Is that right Rich?

Karen Myers
: ...Is that right Rich?

Richard Schwerdtfeger
: yes, as long as it does not break accessibility
16:39:28 <karen> ...services...then I don't see an issue


Karen Myers
: ...services...then I don't see an issue

Markus Gylling
: this means there are two avenues to look into
16:39:42 <karen> ...this IG is only partially involved here


Karen Myers
: ...this IG is only partially involved here
Karen Myers
:...serving as a bridge to these discussions
16:40:00 <karen> ...but sounds more like a discussion that needs to happen with HTML5 folks and the TF

Karen Myers
: ...but sounds more like a discussion that needs to happen with HTML5 folks and the TF
16:40:08 <karen> ...any more questions regarding PF and roles?

Karen Myers
: ...any more questions regarding PF and roles?
16:40:12 <karen> ...great
Karen Myers: ...great
16:40:22 <karen> ...we'll see, Rich, how it goes with the call for participation

Karen Myers
: ...we'll see, Rich, how it goes with the call for participation
16:40:32 <karen> ...we'll try perhaps to gather people to sign up for next week's call

Karen Myers
: ...we'll try perhaps to gather people to sign up for next week's call 
16:40:36 <karen> ...with a week to think about this

Karen Myers
: ...with a week to think about this

Richard Schwerdtfeger
: that's perfect [timeline]

Markus Gylling
: final agenda item is the focus task force for next meeting
16:41:02 <karen> ...I wrote to two of them


Karen Myers
:: ...I wrote to two of them
16:41:12 <karen> ...I see some in a pretty early state

Karen Myers
: ...I see some in a pretty early state
16:41:15 <karen> ...such as metadata

Karen Myers
:...such as metadata
16:41:23 <karen> ...Bill, Brady, what do you think?

Karen Myers
: ...Bill, Brady, what do you think?

16:41:36 <karen> Bill: I would be happy to next week focus on metadata if group wants to do that
Bill Kasdorf: I would be happy to next week focus on metadata if group wants to do that
16:41:45 <karen> ...Ivan will be on call next week; hope Madi would be as well


Karen Myers
:...Ivan will be on call next week; hope Madi would be as well
16:41:57 <karen> ...It did just get started up

Karen Myers
: ...It did just get started up
16:42:11 <karen> ...if we devote next week's meeting, we should avoid getting into specifics, and focus on scope

Karen Myers
: ...if we devote next week's meeting, we should avoid getting into specifics, and focus on scope
16:42:22 <karen> ...it's easy to get into the weeds in the metadata discussions

Karen Myers
: ...it's easy to get into the weeds in the metadata discussions
16:42:28 <karen> ...what became immediately clear on wiki discussions

Karen Myers
:: ...what became immediately clear on wiki discussions
Karen Myers: ...is the importance of emphasizing the what rather than the how
16:42:41 <karen> ...the mechanisms and solutions

Karen Myers
: ...the mechanisms and solutions
16:42:50 <karen> ...lots of details about metadata vocabularies

Karen Myers
: ...lots of details about metadata vocabularies
16:42:55 <karen> Brady: on the pagination side


Brady Duga
: on the pagination side
16:43:02 <karen> ...I don't remember agreeing to head this group


Karen Myers
: ...I don't remember agreeing to head this group
16:43:09 <karen> ...I may have been nominated for it

Karen Myers
: ...I may have been nominated for it
16:43:18 <karen> ...I am editing the wiki with behavioral adaptations

Karen Myers
: ...I am editing the wiki with behavioral adaptations
16:43:29 <karen> ...but don't recall heading that group

Karen Myers
: ...but don't recall heading that group
16:43:31 <karen> Markus: that is right


Markus Gylling
: that is right
16:43:39 <karen> ...you took action to add DOM pagination


Karen Myers
: ...you took action to add DOM pagination
Karen Myers:...I am to blame for elevating you to task force lead
16:43:49 <brady_duga> Sorry, deadzone


Brady Duga
: Sorry, deadzone
16:43:52 <brady_duga> I dropped

Brady Duga
: I dropped
16:43:54 <karen> ...this is an important area


Karen Myers
: ...this is an important area
16:44:07 <karen> ...even if we change the task force lead to someone else, we still need to get going

Karen Myers
: ...even if we change the task force lead to someone else, we still need to get going
16:44:16 <karen> Bill: I am happy to have call focus on metadata


Bill Kasdorf
: I am happy to have call focus on metadata
16:44:24 <karen> ...we have a framework for discussion on the wiki


Karen Myers
: ...we have a framework for discussion on the wiki
Karen Myers:...but if next week is better used for @ I am happy to defer
16:44:51 <karen> Markus: I think we are good to go with metadata next week


Markus Gylling
: I think we are good to go with metadata next week

16:44:59 <karen> ...and Brady and I can sort things out on pagination
Karen Myers: ...and Brady and I can sort things out on pagination
16:45:07 <karen> Brady: I will be adding some stuff to the wiki


Brady Duga
: I will be adding some stuff to the wiki
16:45:20 <karen> ...will be a strength to that section and I'll participate in that group


Karen Myers
: ...will be a strength to that section and I'll participate in that group
16:45:23 <karen> ...On a side note

Karen Myers
: ...On a side note
16:45:33 <karen> ...adding something to wiki, we don't have reading system authors there

Karen Myers
: ...adding something to wiki, we don't have reading system authors there
16:45:46 <karen> Markus: that is still open-ended


Markus Gylling
: that is still open-ended

Karen Myers
: ...if you find yourself in corner, feel free to add it
16:46:04 <karen> Brady: just add it and it appears?


Brady Duga
: just add it and it appears?
16:46:05 <karen> Markus: yes


Markus Gylling
: yes
16:46:12 <karen> ...I think we are settled and done for the day?


Karen Myers
: ...I think we are settled and done for the day?
16:46:16 <karen> ...Any other business?

Karen Myers: ...Any other business?
16:46:21 <karen> ...super

Karen Myers
: ...super
16:46:30 <karen> ...please recall your review of the annotations collections warmly welcome

Karen Myers:...please recall your review of the annotations collections warmly welcome
16:46:45 <karen> ...Suzanne, Rich and Gerardo will do a dedicated review from an accessibility perspective

Karen Myers
: ...Suzanne, Rich and Gerardo will do a dedicated review from an accessibility perspective

Richard Schwerdtfeger
: Are there any other aspects of annotation being included?
16:47:02 <karen> ...I saw a mark


Karen Myers
: ...I saw a mark
16:47:04 <Zakim> -duga

Zakim IRC Bot: -duga

16:47:11 <karen> ...are you referencing mark element in HTML5?

Karen Myers
: ...are you referencing mark element in HTML5?
16:47:19 <karen> Markus: Maybe you are not aware of the open annotation CG


Markus Gylling
: Maybe you are not aware of the open annotation CG

16:47:23 <karen> ...you mentioned at the PF call
Karen Myers: ...you mentioned at the PF call
16:47:29 <azaroth> http://www.w3.org/community/openannotation/


Robert Sanderson
: http://www.w3.org/community/openannotation/
16:47:31 <mgylling> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Social_Reading_and_Annotations


Markus Gylling
: http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Social_Reading_and_Annotations
16:47:34 <karen> Markus: Rob Sanderson from this group is co-chair of that

Markus Gylling
: Rob Sanderson from this group is co-chair of that
16:47:40 <Zakim> -fjh

Zakim IRC Bot: -fjh

16:47:45 <karen> ...and is working with W3C staff to propose a rec track version of open annotations


Karen Myers
: ...and is working with W3C staff to propose a rec track version of open annotations
Karen Myers
: ...and epub also working on integrating
16:47:58 <karen> ...you may want to read in on that

Karen Myers
: ...you may want to read in on that
Karen Myers
:...good opportunity for an inverted long desk
16:48:21 <karen> Rob: if there is anything I can do to help, shoot me an email; happy to do what I can

Robert Sanderson
:  if there is anything I can do to help, shoot me an email; happy to do what I can

M
arkus Gylling
: any other questions? 

16:48:34 <karen> ...thank you for today
Karen Myers: ...thank you for today
16:48:38 <karen> ...thank you, Karen for scribing

Karen Myers
: ...thank you, Karen for scribing
16:48:39 <Zakim> -gcapiel

Zakim IRC Bot: -gcapiel

16:48:40 <Zakim> -lizadaly

Zakim IRC Bot: -lizadaly

16:48:40 <Zakim> -mgylling

Zakim IRC Bot: -mgylling

16:48:41 <Zakim> - +1.646.336.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.646.336.aabb

16:48:42 <Zakim> -dshkolnik

Zakim IRC Bot: -dshkolnik

16:48:42 <Zakim> -Vlad

Zakim IRC Bot: -Vlad

16:48:42 <Zakim> -Bill_Kasdorf

Zakim IRC Bot: -Bill_Kasdorf

16:48:43 <karen> ...meeting adjourned
Karen Myers:...meeting adjourned

Richard Schwerdtfeger
: (handle)42@gmail.com
17:05:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, Marilyn, in DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM