<trackbot> Date: 20 November 2013

<janina> Meeting: IndieUI Task Force Teleconference

<janina> scribe: jason

<MichaelC> scribe: jasonjgw

preview agenda with items from two minutes

Andy: has written an abstract for his indie-ui presentation in March. He offers to circulate it to interested participants in the working group.

<Ryladog> AH: I would like Madeleine Rothberg to talk about user N&P that have changed in A11Y Metadata

<Ryladog> Rich: That is a good idea

Andy suggests inviting Madeleine Rothberg to a teleconference to discuss use cases from Access for All 3 and those which have changed in the schema.org metadata initiative.

<Ryladog> Rich: Did you walk through the new metadata

<Ryladog> JS: Yes

<Ryladog> AH: It is around the AccessMode controls

Andy notes the issues associated with access mode, and how these relate to priorities for User Contexts (including the question of what should be introduced in version 1.0).

<Ryladog> JS: I am happy to extend the invitation but it will be complicated during the holidays - is there a time crunch to do that this year?

Janina notes the need to balance this effort with other work, namely Events, and that this discussion may be profitably deferred to next year given that there are only two meetings remaining this year.

<Ryladog> Rich: This does not impact the Events spec, unless we are going to have some movement with that spec this year

Rich concurs with these priorities.

<Ryladog> Rich: User context is going to need to be where the metadata is used

<Ryladog> MC: I thought we were going to get the Requirements out BEFORE anything else

<Ryladog> JS: Yes

Michael notes that if we are to publish a Last Call for Events early next year, we need a first public working draft of Requirements now.

Andy notes that the emphasis on events in the short term fits well with his needs regarding User Context work.

<Ryladog> JS: I wouldn't limit it to just mobile, including is better

There is discussion of Andy's abstract, with minor adjustments recommended.

<Ryladog> AH: If it turns into a paper I would welcome help

<Ryladog> AH: Are we including native applications?

<Ryladog> JW: I wouldn't see how we can get this in now

Andy will submit in several days, taking into account any comments received.

Any further comments may be sent to Andy (preferably soon).

Calendar Review and Updates Through January 2014

He will provide the URI once the final abstract appears on the conference Web site.

<Ryladog> JS: Two weeks from today so Dec 4th and the 18th and then we break for 3 weeks and resume the 8th of January

Next two meetings: 4 December, then 18 December followed by 8 January.

<Ryladog> JW: I may miss it because of my flight

<MichaelC> scribe: Ryladog

TPAC2013 Report & Followup

JC: I have the Mon, Tues and Wed off and will work on it then

JS: Anticipated Last Call date?

JC: for Events

JS: We not be that far from ready for Events after Requirements

JC: I have a backlog that I went to get in to the Events spec before ewe publish last call
... Lets plan to have another Public Working Draft in the early spring (maybe January) as long as it does not conflict ARIA

MC: It seems when we were going through the Reqs at TPAC - do you think we will be able to get all of those items into the Events spec?

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to ask about getting in all the edits related to requirements and to ask about testing

JC: Will send the minutees/notes of the Req discussion. We have to get to testing before we go to last call? What is the plan and do we have time
... I think it can all be tested via scripts - that is the good thing about the API

MC: We'll have to create test cases

JC: So the last call target would become maybe March?

JS: At least I think

JC: I think testing will go sort of smoothly

RS: Chrome and Safari are still considered to be the same browser

JC: Not any more

RS: Is that true Janina?

JS: The two weblits may be too close to be considered differrent enough

RS: I just want to make sure that is the case for sure so that we do not get caught with being incorrect about this

JC: I think in that case it may have be too close, but, with Indie-UI it should be clearer unless they copy the branch.

RS: Do we know if someone from the Google team is really going to implement this. Have we talked to Dominic? Do we want tp send him an email

JC: Maybe in January we can do a call for Implementations at that point when we have the last call
... If we send that now we my be confusing folks and I have stuff I want to get it

JS: Might be best to wait for the new year

JW: Suggestion of architectural review - what will the next step be - or do any to encourage specific feedback

JC: If you think that is useful to have before we publish the next working draft?

JS: Do we need to take this to TAG or is the Working Group enough? We do not want to go over there heads

<jcraig> ACTION: jcraig to ask WebApps about the DOMTokenList and reflected attributes uiactions/@ui-actions; Ted mentioned there was some pushback against DOMTokenList. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/20-indie-ui-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-75 - Ask webapps about the domtokenlist and reflected attributes uiactions/@ui-actions; ted mentioned there was some pushback against domtokenlist. [on James Craig - due 2013-11-27].

<jcraig> action-75?

<trackbot> action-75 -- James Craig to Ask webapps about the domtokenlist and reflected attributes uiactions/@ui-actions; ted mentioned there was some pushback against domtokenlist. -- due 2013-11-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/actions/75

<jcraig> action-75?

<trackbot> action-75 -- James Craig to Ask WebApps about the DOMTokenList and reflected attributes uiactions/@ui-actions; Ted mentioned there was some pushback against DOMTokenList. -- due 2013-11-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/actions/75

Issue-17 (New) https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/issues/17

JS: this came up in the ARIA call on Monday

<jcraig> "Require an event notification and indicator that an element can respond to a bubble help request"

JS: We were talking about ARIA has pop-up - we were talking about how that mist be discover-able. T

RS: The tool tip and ARIA described-by

<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to ask if "bubble help" means "contextual menu"?

JC: What kind of help

RS: It is more information about the object - related contextual - like more information
... there is the discoverability and the fact that something is actionable

JC: If you hover over a movie and waiting a few seconds - like in Netflics
... Is this bubble help - a dialog is more interactive

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to ask if this is IndieUI or WebApps? and to ask if this relates to ISSUE-3

JW: Distinct from a secondary action on an object - a kind of help request confined to the object that the event applies to

<MichaelC> ¨Provide a mechanism to access context menus and perhaps other secondary actions (might be future requirement). (issue-3)¨

JW: Do we want it tp be seperate?

MC: This sounds a lot like secondary actions which we discussed at F2F and goes with Issue 3

<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to say showing a contextual menu (secondary action) and displaying a tooltip are different things. If we have an event, we need to clearly define the difference.

JC: All three of us ask the same question at the same time
... Bubble help I believe is a tooltip - that is not interactive than it functionally behaves as a tooltip, if it is interactive it is more like a dialog

MC: Issue 3 applies here

JS: Yes, that does sound like it applies

JC: It sounds like there are two issues - both the secondary action that is covered in issue 3 - but then also like a show tooltip

JW: if it is interactive - it looks like a secondary action. If it is not interactive then you want an event to play it
... They both seem to be secondary interactions - so it looks like Issue 3 covers both - maybe we need to amend the Issue

JC: It almost seems like is there ever going to be a case where we have primary, secondary and tooltip together. We want to build a strategy around this

RS: For AT we want to have an API mapping - something like this - I am trying to figure out if we need a mapping ststement

JC: Are you saying you want a platform specific action

JS: Why only AT?

RS: Well it is not necessarily

JS: lets not forget the longdesc or described-at - but it is never autodispalyed

RS: But we do not want to tell the browser manufacturers how to do that

JS; It could be very simpke

RS: The UA would enable all the device interaction

JS: Tiemline question

<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to say that's an implementation detail for AT

JS: How can the team help you Micheal to get the Requirements out?

JW: API for registering secondary actions the UA would have to signal it appropriately for each OS

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to ask about Webapps

JS: I do not think we need to solve eveything about this today

<MichaelC> ack

MC: I am not fully sure I understand whether this is a broader scope that for IndieUI?

JC: Discover-ability issue is out of scope
... As long as there is an API fr each of these things as then it is up to the AT and UA

RS: You addressed that at the F2F with the memdiaQueries
... I just need a note that says 'hey this fuction is here'

JC: I think that is covered by preference changed events

RS: Would that work for AT?

JC: I think that will come out of the examples. We might be confusing the vocabulary

<jcraig> Notes that "Web Notifications" are something else entirely

MC: What need to be done is just get the Reqs into a W3 doc - but we did not match the Req to Use Cases - it is a task that needs to be done

JC: Let us try to begin to end at 10 of in the future

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138  of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

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Found Scribe: jason
Found Scribe: jasonjgw
Inferring ScribeNick: jasonjgw
Found Scribe: Ryladog
Inferring ScribeNick: Ryladog
Scribes: jason, jasonjgw, Ryladog
ScribeNicks: jasonjgw, Ryladog
Default Present: Katie_Haritos-Shea, Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Janina_Sajka, Jason_White, Andy_Heath, jcraig

WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list: Katie_Haritos-Shea, Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Janina_Sajka, Jason_White, Andy_Heath, James_Craig)
Use 'Present+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list,
such as: <dbooth> Present+ Katie_Haritos-Shea, Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Janina_Sajka, Jason_White, Andy_Heath, James, Craig

Present: Katie_Haritos-Shea Michael_Cooper Rich_Schwerdtfeger Janina_Sajka Jason_White Andy_Heath James Craig
Found Date: 20 Nov 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/11/20-indie-ui-minutes.html
People with action items: jcraig

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