<trackbot> Date: 23 October 2013

<Vlad> scribenick: raph

recap of agenda

one extra item: discussion of TTC

we have relatively complete minutes of F2F meeting, most discussion captured

AI followup for raph: contact IETF reps at Google

raph has contacted Google reps with dual IETF/W3C affiliation, no response yet

Brotli encoder reference implementation has been published as open source

announcement email was sent to list, probably held for moderation

doesn't make sense to review evaluation report for now, as chris lilley is not here

waiting on chris lilley to finalize draft

TTC issue has been discussed in detail in 2010 on wg reflector

TTC can be used as webfonts, maybe some quirks need to be worked out

at the moment, can only reference font #1 in the resource. Nothing in CSS that lets us reference other fonts

This is the biggest issue that holds back usage of TTC

container format would need to support multiple font headers

vlad: WOFF 1 attempts to replicate TTF header, this wouldn't be a problem with whole-stream compression

raph: would affect TTC because of preprocessing step

vlad: could Raph investigate how the preprocessing step would affect ttc files

raph: yes

adam twardoch suggested that ttc fonts may be useful to represent multiple color schemes for a color font

fonts in the collection would share outlines but have different color palette tables

ttc is currently niche in usage

vlad: it is something we should support

kuettel: are we talking about just making the font format support ttc, or also pushing out changes all the way to the browser?

vlad: we should make the wire format support it first, then consider other changes

<Vlad> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012May/0217.html

css is currently biggest obstacle

raph: concern about backwards compatibility: css has no way to conditionally use TTC if supported, fall back to separate TTF fonts if not

<Vlad> ACTION: raph to investigate the TTC support as part of the WOFF 2.0 pre-processing mechanism [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/23-webfonts-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-122 - Investigate the ttc support as part of the woff 2.0 pre-processing mechanism [on Raph Levien - due 2013-10-30].

so backwards compatibility story is not as good as for woff2, where fallback to woff1 is transparent

raph: now is a good time to consider wire format changes, because we're going to be making changes to the wire format to simplify per-table vs whole-font and flate vs brotli switches

cslye: decision to do whole font only (not provide a per table option) seemed pretty definitive in f2f

vlad: recap of report on media types

vlad has a sense that people are much more open to new media type registrations than before

previously, whenever any proposal for a top-level type came to iana, there would be immediate argument against

this is what sunk the proposal in 2004, but doesn't seem to be the case any more

vlad: it's likely to be approved only if we have convincing evidence that it will make things significantly than the status quo

main criticism is: what difference does it make what the actual string identifier is? is existing identifier good enough?

we would need to provide an answer to this as part of the proposal

vlad: coming up with "bulletproof" justification of why font/foo is better than application/font-foo is difficult

cslye agrees

vlad: larry masinter might be a useful resource for this discussion within adobe; he's been actively involved in ietf and standards work
... plea to group: can we find a person to help us make the case that font/ is superior?
... once we have that, actually drafting the proposal will probably be the easiest task

much existing prior work, including application/font-sfnt (was accepted with minimal controversy)

vlad will be at iso meeting next week

let's try to do as much as possible on email list

easier to refer to, and easier for people not able to join the phone call

won't have call next week

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Regrets: John_Hudson Jonathan_Kew

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Found Date: 23 Oct 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/10/23-webfonts-minutes.html
People with action items: raph

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